Adam and Olivia discuss the infamous theory that a single magic bullet caused most of the injuries in the JFK assassination and the account of a former Secret Service agent that blows that theory up.
The Magic Bullet Theory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-bullet_theory
The New York Times Article: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/09/us/politics/jfk-assassination-witness-paul-landis.html
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Welcome to Conspiracy the Show,
the world’s most trusted
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conspiracy theory podcast with
your hosts Adam Todd.
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Brown and Olivia Haidar
Hey everybody, welcome to
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Conspiracy the show.
I’m your host Adam Todd Brown
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joining me.
Scott host Olivia Hidar’s here.
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Hey, yes, it’s me, Olivia Hidar.
Hi, how’s it going, Olivia?
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It’s OK, you know.
Same old, same old.
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On this end, we’re recording
this on a very special day for
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conspiracy theorists.
No, I don’t mean 420.
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I mean 911, right?
And so of course, we’re talking
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about JFK.
Today, yeah, we are talking
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about JFK, your parents 911.
It’s basically the old 911.
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Yeah, although 911 was also
probably your parents 911.
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Unless your dad died when you
were real young like mine did.
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A total idiot.
Wow, dork.
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Yeah, I mean, fucking doofus.
It’s kind of like 911, although
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911 I will say about 1500 times
more people died than during the
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JFK assassination.
Yeah, they put up a lot more
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numbers on 9/11 then on.
I always forget, was it November
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23rd?
When?
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Yeah.
At 11:20, it was November 22nd,
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Okay.
It was 63 though, right?
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That’s where we’re from.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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That is, yeah, November 22nd,
1963.
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A date that will live in infamy.
Wait, no, that’s the right a
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date Tragedy also.
God damn it.
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It’s a date that will live as
the title of a Stephen King
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book.
The Stephen King book I’ve never
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read.
I tried to watch the Hulu series
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and did not.
You’d like it.
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I didn’t finish it, but I also
didn’t hate it when I was
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watching it.
I think I just like, yeah, it.
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Fell off the series is kind of
like the book, but boring.
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You should just read the book,
Yeah.
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I mean, I’m sure I would prefer
the book.
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That’s how it shakes out a lot
of times.
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It’s a fun time.
It’s mostly just about a guy.
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Being a teacher in Texas in the
60s and then every once in a
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while the JFK assassination is
brought up.
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Yeah, all I remember from the
series is like James Franco had
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like a special portal to the JFK
assassination that he could walk
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through some shit.
It’s very.
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Basically, so we’re talking
about the magic bullet theory
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today because someone has come
forward recently to cast some
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doubt on the magic bullet
theory.
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Which I’m going to be honest,
that’s not a tall task.
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I don’t sure think you don’t
have to do a lot of work to make
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the magic bullet theory seem not
true, because it seems not true.
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Well, does it help that they
call it the Magic bullet theory?
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They don’t, though.
That’s what folks like me who
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think it’s complete nonsense.
Right.
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I call it the single Bullet
Theory.
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Sure.
Which that’s the Warren
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Commission’s term for it.
They’re the ones who came up
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with this theory.
In my mind.
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The Magic Bullet Theory is a
thing like everyone who’s ever
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listened to a conspiracy theory
podcast already knows about.
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But maybe not, so we’ll go
through it.
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What are your thoughts on the
magic bullet theory?
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Man, you would have like there
would have to be something crazy
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to happen.
To get me to give a single shit
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about JFK at this point, like I
am just so beyond it.
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But that’s not really the
question.
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Like.
No, I know that you’re beyond
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it.
Like, who isn’t?
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It happened like 60 years ago,
and we’re still right.
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That’s the thing.
But we also have a podcast to
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record.
Well, no, I know, I know.
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So like I’m just asking like in
terms of a theory, how well do
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you think it holds up?
I don’t know.
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I don’t think it holds up.
But, you know, it doesn’t help
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that most of the evidence for it
doesn’t really exist anymore.
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It’s just this one bullet.
And yeah, man, I don’t know.
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I don’t really, I haven’t really
thought about the magic bullet.
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Like until I read this article
and like, yeah, I don’t.
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I don’t know, man.
I don’t know.
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The thing about is, it’s like
vital to the idea that Lee
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Harvey Oswald acted alone.
Sure.
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And I feel like to me, the magic
bullet theory is an example of
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instead of like doing science
and letting that lead you to the
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correct explanation, this is
like you come up with the
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explanation first and now you’re
gonna bend science to make it
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work.
Sure.
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Yeah, that makes sense, which is
a thing you saw a lot in the
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case of Michael Peterson.
If you watch The Staircase
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documentary, there’s a lot of
points in that where the
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prosecution, instead of like
recreating what they think
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happened and seeing if the
evidence bears that out, they’re
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doing these like reverse science
experiments where they’re trying
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to produce what happened at the
crime scene.
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And that’s backwards.
Not, that’s not how you do
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things.
And that’s kind of what happened
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with the magic bullet theory.
It was first pushed by the
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Warren Commission in the course
of their investigation into the
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assassination.
And it’s such a bananas theory
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to me that, like, I was three
when the Warren Commission
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finally released their findings.
So I couldn’t do shit about it.
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I was a toddler, but it feels to
me like the magic bullet theory
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is a social experiment, that we
as a country failed.
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Like, it feels like the
government pushing the most
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unlikely explanation in front of
us and being like, this is what
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you get.
It’s magic.
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Magic.
JFK Crazy, huh?
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And we were just like, all
right, I guess gas is really
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expensive right now, so I guess
we don’t fucking care.
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It was 1970.
Yeah.
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I mean, as always, you know,
Americans have a lot of shit on
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their plate.
Yeah, yeah.
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And that’s always a good time to
drop stuff like the Magic bullet
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Theory because.
Exactly.
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People aren’t gonna question it.
They have loved ones being held
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in Iran.
Not at all at the urging of the
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CIA.
That’s for a right episode.
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What really rubs me the wrong
way about the magic bullet
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theory is the condition of that
bullet.
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Like we have pictures of it.
There’s pictures in the Warren
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Commission.
There’s pictures in the articles
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we’ll link to.
It is in pristine condition.
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Yeah, like if it was a
collector’s item, like, it would
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be graded pretty highly.
Like, it’s in, right?
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It looks like you could still
shoot it.
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And they say that it only lost a
couple grains of its usual
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weight, which is pretty unusual
for a bullet that passed through
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a lot of things.
Yeah, this is a bullet that
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passed through Kennedy’s neck,
somehow went through Kennedy’s
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neck and then into the chest of
Governor John Connolly, which
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that alone is quite a change in
direction.
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Well.
Kennedy was giving him head at
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the time.
People always leave that part
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out.
People forget and they were in a
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convertible and everybody could
see, but did they want to see?
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No, they didn’t.
They turned their blind eye.
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Everyone accepts the pruder who
was filming and jerking off at
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the same time.
So yeah, it not only goes
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through John Connelly’s chest,
it then went through his right
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wrist and embedded itself in his
left thigh.
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To pull this off, it would have
had to travel through a back
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brace, 15 layers of clothing, 7
layers of skin, 15 inches of
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muscle tissue, and on top of
that it had to pulverize 4
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inches of John Connelly’s rib
bones and shatter his radius
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bone.
And it comes out the other end
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of all that in Just Chef’s kiss
condition, just pretty as the
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day it was born.
Still, shiny makes me no.
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I feel like somebody probably
polished it.
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I don’t think it was shiny.
Why would you Polish evidence of
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crime?
Well, that is a good question.
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I don’t know.
And like there’s no way like you
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have to be such a government
rube to believe the magic bullet
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theory.
No one fucking believes it.
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Even it a good portion of the
Warren Commission didn’t even
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believe it.
And as we all know, I am a
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government Rube and so I’m here
to totally discount any other
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alternative.
Are you?
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No, I’m not.
I don’t really care.
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And I don’t care enough to put
the energy into that.
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Are you kidding me?
Well, I also don’t think it’s a
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thing anyone would be able to
do.
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Like there’s no looking at the
magic bullet theory and going
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OK, no here I can explain that.
No you can’t.
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Like if anyone could explain it,
it would be explained in a way
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that hasn’t led to even more
questions in the 40 odd years
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since it came out.
Like.
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I would say if a proper
investigation had been done in
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the.
Days after the assassination,
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then perhaps you could find
evidence of an explanation that
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makes sense.
But now, in years after the
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fact, that’s never happening,
right?
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But I mean, like just the magic
bullet theory itself.
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Like, right, The word magic is
in it for a reason.
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Because sure.
But they call it the single
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bullet Theory, right?
But, like, even that’s crazy.
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Like, you can look at the
Zapruder film and see that
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there’s more than one bullet.
But did that second one?
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Just like not do.
The single bullet theory is not
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saying that there was only one
bullet fired.
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Sure, it’s just the one bullet
is explaining all of this
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damage, right?
But like, no, there were three
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shots fired.
Yeah, that’s the thing.
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There were lots of people who
testified that they heard three
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shots.
There were newspaper reports
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that came out, one of them
issued by someone who was in the
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motorcade like a few cars back.
And they, like, almost
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immediately report that they
heard three shots.
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Everyone heard three shots.
But even according to the Warren
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Commission, there’s only two
shots.
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Which that’s also pretty
suspect.
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Yeah.
And the reason the magic bullet
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theory is so important is
because despite what the Warren
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Commission claims, which is that
even though the magic bullet
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theory is weird, it doesn’t
really inform their conclusion
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in the Warren Commission, which
is that Lee Harvey Oswald acted
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alone.
And when they issued that
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conclusion, they said this
theory wasn’t like vital to it.
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But it absolutely is, sure,
because I think it was the FBI
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initially.
Also in their statement was that
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there were three shots fired.
And so the Warren Commission
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starts looking into this idea
and especially looking at the
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Zapruder film, which is like the
only footage we have of the JFK
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assassination.
And the reason the magic bullet
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theory is so crucial is because
they found that Kennedy was
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wounded sometime between frames
210 and 225 of the Zapruder
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film.
Governor Connolly was wounded in
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the back and chest no later than
frame 2:40, and that would not
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give Lee Harvey Oswald enough
time to reload his gun and fire.
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Again, that was determined by
the FBI.
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They had Marksman test fire the
same rifle Oswald used and they
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found it takes approximately 2
1/4 seconds to reload this gun
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and that is 41 to 42 Zapruder
film frames and at most 30
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frames passed between those two
shots.
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So either there was another
shooter or Harry Potter.
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Magic is at play here and this
bullet just acted in ways that
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00:12:54,190 –> 00:12:56,470
physics and science do not
support.
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Sure.
And like, that’s why people have
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had questions all these years, I
mean.
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Yeah, so, but also, like, what
are you gonna do about it?
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It’s the government, you know.
That is the question.
217
00:13:09,150 –> 00:13:12,830
What are you gonna do about it?
And so, yeah, they just, like,
218
00:13:13,070 –> 00:13:16,350
they couldn’t explain how Lee
Harvey Oswald got those shots
219
00:13:16,350 –> 00:13:17,910
off.
So the answer was magic.
220
00:13:17,910 –> 00:13:22,230
It was a magic bullet, right?
And we as a nation did not care
221
00:13:22,550 –> 00:13:24,790
at all.
We just no let that go.
222
00:13:24,910 –> 00:13:27,030
I mean, people cared.
Yeah, people cared.
223
00:13:27,190 –> 00:13:30,430
Oliver Stone cared.
Yeah, Oliver Stone really cared.
224
00:13:31,110 –> 00:13:35,870
Is JFK his best movie?
I think probably I would have to
225
00:13:35,870 –> 00:13:38,740
think about this, yeah.
It’s a.
226
00:13:38,820 –> 00:13:41,300
It’s a narrow field, yeah.
Yeah.
227
00:13:41,420 –> 00:13:43,620
He doesn’t have that ton of
movies I love.
228
00:13:43,620 –> 00:13:45,780
I liked Platoon.
I like JFK.
229
00:13:45,940 –> 00:13:50,700
Yeah, his early like yeah that
that mid run is fine and like
230
00:13:51,300 –> 00:13:53,940
Natural Born Killers has its
stuff.
231
00:13:54,060 –> 00:13:57,260
Yeah, yeah.
But like, yeah, I mean,
232
00:13:57,260 –> 00:14:00,140
probably.
JFK is his magnum opus that
233
00:14:00,140 –> 00:14:03,310
makes his peak when he started
interviewing Putin obvious.
234
00:14:03,470 –> 00:14:06,510
Well, of course, yeah.
Now, of course, all of his films
235
00:14:06,510 –> 00:14:08,630
are great.
I mean, who could forget?
236
00:14:11,590 –> 00:14:15,390
I mean, my favorite Oliver Stone
film is World Trade Center.
237
00:14:15,630 –> 00:14:20,430
Oh sure, my favorite Oliver
Stone film is his kid clearly
238
00:14:20,430 –> 00:14:23,990
being meffed up on an episode of
Conspiracy Theory with Jesse
239
00:14:23,990 –> 00:14:27,390
Ventura.
That is his best work, Son is
240
00:14:27,390 –> 00:14:32,670
his best work best.
Oh, maybe Alexander, yeah.
241
00:14:32,950 –> 00:14:35,430
Well, maybe Wall Street’s.
Oh, I forgot about.
242
00:14:35,630 –> 00:14:38,270
Some movies, yeah, he’s got,
he’s got some he’s.
243
00:14:38,270 –> 00:14:41,110
Got some movies.
So back to the Warren
244
00:14:41,110 –> 00:14:44,830
Commission.
Not only did Oliver Stone not
245
00:14:44,830 –> 00:14:48,110
believe it, three members of the
Warren Commission also did not
246
00:14:48,110 –> 00:14:52,350
believe the magic bullet theory.
Representative Hale Boggs,
247
00:14:52,510 –> 00:14:57,450
Senator Richard Russell, and
Senator John Cooper all found
248
00:14:57,450 –> 00:15:00,250
the magic bullet theory to be
highly improbable.
249
00:15:00,450 –> 00:15:04,490
Russell even requested that his
objection be added as a footnote
250
00:15:04,770 –> 00:15:08,290
in the report.
But in the end, despite not
251
00:15:08,290 –> 00:15:12,170
actually agreeing all seven
members signed off on the
252
00:15:12,170 –> 00:15:14,770
following statement.
There was number question in the
253
00:15:14,770 –> 00:15:18,260
mind of any member of the
Commission that all the shots
254
00:15:18,260 –> 00:15:21,740
which caused the presidents and
Governor Connolly’s wounds were
255
00:15:21,740 –> 00:15:25,140
fired from the 6th floor window
of the Texas School Book
256
00:15:25,140 –> 00:15:28,300
Depository.
Which how do you reconcile that?
257
00:15:28,300 –> 00:15:34,020
Like, I don’t know how a person
who receives this report and
258
00:15:34,020 –> 00:15:39,260
reads it is going to go OK, so
three of you disagree on like
259
00:15:39,260 –> 00:15:43,380
the central tenet of your
theory, but you also all agree
260
00:15:43,660 –> 00:15:45,580
on the theory.
Well.
261
00:15:45,900 –> 00:15:51,500
I would say that that statement
doesn’t necessarily preclude
262
00:15:51,740 –> 00:15:55,500
there being another shooter.
They’re just kind of saying that
263
00:15:55,500 –> 00:15:57,900
there were two shooters in the
6th floor of the Book
264
00:15:57,900 –> 00:15:59,740
Depository.
He’s not really that.
265
00:15:59,740 –> 00:16:04,180
There were like other shooters,
sure, but the Warren Commission
266
00:16:04,690 –> 00:16:06,650
decided that there was only one
shooter like.
267
00:16:06,650 –> 00:16:08,890
No, I know that that’s a fair
conclusion.
268
00:16:08,890 –> 00:16:11,410
And this is the Warren
Commission talking like that
269
00:16:11,410 –> 00:16:13,690
statement is from the Warren
Nation, right.
270
00:16:13,690 –> 00:16:19,410
So three people who disagreed as
to how these shots were fired
271
00:16:19,570 –> 00:16:22,530
are also like, but yeah, it was
just Lee Harvey Oswald, right.
272
00:16:22,650 –> 00:16:23,850
Frustrating.
Yeah.
273
00:16:24,050 –> 00:16:28,260
And yeah, like we already
mentioned, three shots fired at
274
00:16:28,260 –> 00:16:31,700
Kennedy’s motorcade.
Those were all the headlines
275
00:16:31,740 –> 00:16:34,660
after this happened.
Three shots fired.
276
00:16:34,820 –> 00:16:37,660
One report came from someone who
was in the motorcade.
277
00:16:37,900 –> 00:16:42,300
And like, it’s not like Bobby
Kennedy, where there’s like, I
278
00:16:42,300 –> 00:16:47,260
think eight or nine shots and
you, like, really have to listen
279
00:16:47,500 –> 00:16:48,500
to hear them.
All right?
280
00:16:48,660 –> 00:16:51,700
No one’s going to be on the
fence about whether it was two
281
00:16:51,700 –> 00:16:54,610
or three.
Granted, there were lots of
282
00:16:54,610 –> 00:16:58,450
witnesses who said anything from
one shot to like eight shots,
283
00:16:58,450 –> 00:17:00,890
but.
I mean, sure, But the people who
284
00:17:00,890 –> 00:17:04,690
were in the motorcade and like
acting in their official
285
00:17:04,690 –> 00:17:09,210
capacity as a news reporter, I
don’t know that you’d fuck that
286
00:17:09,210 –> 00:17:11,020
up.
And Three seems to be the
287
00:17:11,020 –> 00:17:13,260
consensus.
Like if you they have a
288
00:17:13,260 –> 00:17:16,900
breakdown somewhere out there of
all the witnesses and the
289
00:17:16,900 –> 00:17:19,819
numbers they reported.
And it’s like not even close the
290
00:17:19,819 –> 00:17:23,300
number of people who reported 3
compared to those strays who
291
00:17:23,300 –> 00:17:27,339
were like 256, that’s like a
handful of people.
292
00:17:27,420 –> 00:17:30,860
And then like the whole crowd
pretty much was like, Nope,
293
00:17:30,980 –> 00:17:32,220
Three.
We heard three.
294
00:17:32,380 –> 00:17:34,860
Yeah.
And I think that’s also
295
00:17:34,860 –> 00:17:38,780
questionable because the whole
thing is, well, he didn’t get
296
00:17:39,190 –> 00:17:42,030
like, he didn’t really have time
to get those two shots off.
297
00:17:42,190 –> 00:17:43,830
Well, how the hell did he get 3
off?
298
00:17:45,070 –> 00:17:46,910
I don’t know, man.
I don’t know either.
299
00:17:47,150 –> 00:17:49,670
So now let’s talk about Paul
Landis.
300
00:17:49,910 –> 00:17:53,070
Right.
Paul Landis has recently come
301
00:17:53,070 –> 00:17:58,110
forward with new information
about the Magic Bullet theory.
302
00:17:58,390 –> 00:18:02,510
And the thing about Paul Landis,
he was a Secret Service agent.
303
00:18:02,710 –> 00:18:07,150
He was in the Kennedy Motorcade.
And something we have not
304
00:18:07,150 –> 00:18:11,150
mentioned about the magic bullet
theory so far is that the bullet
305
00:18:11,150 –> 00:18:14,830
in question was found on a
stretcher that was right
306
00:18:14,990 –> 00:18:18,670
believed to have been used to
transport Governor Connolly, who
307
00:18:18,670 –> 00:18:21,230
did survive the shooting by.
The way, Yes, yeah.
308
00:18:21,470 –> 00:18:26,590
And it was assumed that it quote
fell out of his body and quote
309
00:18:26,900 –> 00:18:29,100
while doctors we’re working to
say that.
310
00:18:29,140 –> 00:18:31,420
Happens.
No, it doesn’t.
311
00:18:31,540 –> 00:18:32,660
No it doesn’t.
It doesn’t.
312
00:18:32,940 –> 00:18:35,540
No, no, no.
Bullets don’t just fall out.
313
00:18:35,540 –> 00:18:39,500
It’s a fucking bullet.
That’s the body is like a sack,
314
00:18:39,500 –> 00:18:41,660
basically.
If you shake it enough,
315
00:18:41,940 –> 00:18:45,020
everything will come out.
Your body is a wonder sack.
316
00:18:47,420 –> 00:18:49,980
Paul Landis was never
interviewed by the Warren
317
00:18:49,980 –> 00:18:54,670
Commission, and it seems like he
maybe should have then.
318
00:18:54,870 –> 00:18:58,750
Yeah, I mean, like, for no other
reason than the fact that he was
319
00:18:58,830 –> 00:19:04,710
a Secret Service agent on duty
during that motorcade, maybe.
320
00:19:04,710 –> 00:19:07,710
Seems like that’s an easy list
of guys that you wanna
321
00:19:07,750 –> 00:19:09,830
interview.
Yeah, that seems like a no
322
00:19:09,830 –> 00:19:12,400
brainer.
Seems like all Secret Service
323
00:19:12,400 –> 00:19:15,520
agents you’re going to talk to.
And yeah, this guy was assigned
324
00:19:15,520 –> 00:19:20,480
to protect Jackie Kennedy, who
also kind of a key figure in
325
00:19:20,560 –> 00:19:23,120
this just in the fact that she
was right there.
326
00:19:23,240 –> 00:19:23,920
So.
Right.
327
00:19:24,080 –> 00:19:26,640
That means Paul Landis was right
there also.
328
00:19:27,040 –> 00:19:30,880
Yeah.
And his claim is that the bullet
329
00:19:30,960 –> 00:19:35,480
that they found on the stretcher
that went on to be flagged as
330
00:19:35,520 –> 00:19:37,440
the magic bullet, the single
bullet.
331
00:19:37,720 –> 00:19:39,920
Right.
He says he found that bullet
332
00:19:40,080 –> 00:19:43,360
lodged in the seat behind
Kennedy.
333
00:19:43,520 –> 00:19:47,720
Yeah, and it was in the
presidential limousine lodged in
334
00:19:47,720 –> 00:19:50,080
the backseat.
He says he spotted the bullet
335
00:19:50,080 –> 00:19:54,440
after the motorcade arrived at
the hospital and took it just to
336
00:19:54,440 –> 00:19:57,840
like thwart any potential
souvenir hunters.
337
00:19:58,160 –> 00:20:01,120
Right.
And then, for reasons he himself
338
00:20:01,120 –> 00:20:05,200
isn’t completely sure of, he
says he entered the hospital and
339
00:20:05,320 –> 00:20:09,320
placed the bullet next to
Kennedy on the stretcher he was
340
00:20:09,320 –> 00:20:12,800
on, assuming it might be useful
to doctors.
341
00:20:13,180 –> 00:20:16,780
Working on the president and
what he thinks happened is maybe
342
00:20:16,780 –> 00:20:19,700
at some point those two
stretchers, Connolly and Kennedy
343
00:20:19,700 –> 00:20:23,460
were next to each other, and in
all the commotion the bullet got
344
00:20:23,500 –> 00:20:28,500
like jostled and moved over to
Connolly’s stretcher.
345
00:20:28,700 –> 00:20:31,020
Right, right.
And here’s the thing that’s also
346
00:20:31,020 –> 00:20:36,500
a pretty wild story that, yeah,
it’s not like, unbelievable, but
347
00:20:36,500 –> 00:20:40,140
it’s just like a weird series of
steps to take.
348
00:20:40,340 –> 00:20:42,360
It is.
I would say though, that’s a
349
00:20:42,520 –> 00:20:45,480
that’s a day for a lot of weird
events happening.
350
00:20:45,760 –> 00:20:48,240
Yeah, it’s a team.
Like, it’s a thing we bring up
351
00:20:48,400 –> 00:20:52,120
all the time on this podcast.
Like, you can’t really judge
352
00:20:52,240 –> 00:20:56,400
someone’s actions in the most
stressful situation they’ve ever
353
00:20:56,400 –> 00:20:57,600
been in.
Totally.
354
00:20:57,760 –> 00:21:00,480
And point at that and go well,
why is that person acting so
355
00:21:00,480 –> 00:21:04,970
weird in Sandy Hook?
Is always the best touch that
356
00:21:05,370 –> 00:21:09,010
for that sure.
Yeah, because so much of Sandy
357
00:21:09,010 –> 00:21:12,010
Hook is well, why was that
coroner acting so weird?
358
00:21:12,010 –> 00:21:13,810
Why are these parents acting so
weird?
359
00:21:14,050 –> 00:21:16,450
Yeah, maybe it’s cuz they just
saw like a bunch of dead
360
00:21:16,450 –> 00:21:19,010
children.
Yeah, you all were murdered
361
00:21:19,410 –> 00:21:20,730
horribly.
Yeah.
362
00:21:20,890 –> 00:21:23,410
Why didn’t the authorities let
the parents go in the school?
363
00:21:23,530 –> 00:21:26,170
I don’t know, cuz that’s a crime
scene littered with dozens and
364
00:21:26,170 –> 00:21:28,850
dozens of dead kids that they’re
gonna have to step over to get
365
00:21:28,850 –> 00:21:30,690
to their dead kid.
Right.
366
00:21:30,690 –> 00:21:34,010
Like, that’s not how any of that
works.
367
00:21:34,010 –> 00:21:36,690
Ever.
That is never, ever how that
368
00:21:36,690 –> 00:21:40,210
works.
And same thing here with this
369
00:21:40,210 –> 00:21:43,370
guy’s story.
Like, it’s weird.
370
00:21:43,370 –> 00:21:46,010
Like it’s a weird series of
steps to take.
371
00:21:46,010 –> 00:21:51,570
But sure, I could imagine like
grabbing that bullet and walking
372
00:21:51,570 –> 00:21:54,210
with it in my pocket for a
second and then being like I
373
00:21:54,210 –> 00:21:59,100
shouldn’t have this.
Yeah, absolutely.
374
00:21:59,500 –> 00:22:02,580
It’s not something you want to
have on your person On the day
375
00:22:02,580 –> 00:22:06,460
that Kennedy was assassinated.
And it seems like that’s kind of
376
00:22:06,460 –> 00:22:08,660
where Paul Landis is coming
from.
377
00:22:08,860 –> 00:22:13,140
It seems like he did this and
then immediately was like, ooh,
378
00:22:13,740 –> 00:22:15,500
I shouldn’t have done that.
That was probably.
379
00:22:15,500 –> 00:22:17,580
This was a mistake.
It’s probably a bad idea.
380
00:22:17,780 –> 00:22:21,100
And I can see someone making a
mistake like that in that
381
00:22:21,100 –> 00:22:21,940
moment.
Yeah.
382
00:22:22,380 –> 00:22:23,940
This is a quote from Paul
Landis.
383
00:22:24,140 –> 00:22:26,180
There was nobody there to secure
the scene.
384
00:22:26,340 –> 00:22:28,340
And that was a big, big bother
to me.
385
00:22:28,500 –> 00:22:31,500
All the agents that were there
were focused on the president.
386
00:22:31,540 –> 00:22:33,620
This was all going on so
quickly.
387
00:22:33,860 –> 00:22:37,340
And I was just afraid that it
was a piece of evidence that I
388
00:22:37,340 –> 00:22:39,540
realized right away, very
important.
389
00:22:39,660 –> 00:22:43,180
And I didn’t want it to
disappear or get lost.
390
00:22:43,460 –> 00:22:46,180
So it was Paul, you’ve got to
make a decision.
391
00:22:46,340 –> 00:22:50,210
And I grabbed it and quote,
which yeah, what do you do in
392
00:22:50,210 –> 00:22:52,090
that situation?
Do you leave the bullet?
393
00:22:52,090 –> 00:22:53,490
Do you grab it?
Who knows?
394
00:22:53,650 –> 00:22:55,370
Sure what I would do.
I don’t either.
395
00:22:55,570 –> 00:22:58,010
I mean, eBay exists now, so I
kind of know.
396
00:22:58,890 –> 00:23:02,210
Yeah.
Now, if it happened today, yeah.
397
00:23:02,410 –> 00:23:05,290
But also, I feel like my
relationship with the presidency
398
00:23:05,290 –> 00:23:08,050
is a lot different than it would
have been in 1963.
399
00:23:08,130 –> 00:23:09,290
Yeah, sure.
Yeah.
400
00:23:09,450 –> 00:23:11,450
Yeah.
I just, I don’t know.
401
00:23:11,650 –> 00:23:15,210
I mean, today I see that bullet.
I’m probably hightailing at the
402
00:23:15,210 –> 00:23:17,490
Vegas to appear on an episode of
Pawn Stars.
403
00:23:19,410 –> 00:23:21,730
And you know what?
That probably wouldn’t be the
404
00:23:21,730 –> 00:23:23,650
right decision either.
I’m sure.
405
00:23:23,970 –> 00:23:27,250
I’m sure Big Hoss would be like
one second dude and come back
406
00:23:27,250 –> 00:23:28,930
with the FBI and have me
arrested.
407
00:23:30,410 –> 00:23:34,490
I can’t imagine that Big Hoss
would be a rat.
408
00:23:35,810 –> 00:23:38,690
Yeah, probably not.
But he’s had some legal trouble
409
00:23:38,690 –> 00:23:40,450
of his own.
They might dangle that.
410
00:23:40,690 –> 00:23:45,820
Oh yeah, his head.
And so despite Paul Landis
411
00:23:46,060 –> 00:23:50,140
having this information in his
back pocket and knowing that
412
00:23:50,220 –> 00:23:54,220
this bullet is the one that led
to the magic bullet theory for
413
00:23:54,220 –> 00:23:57,940
all these years, he says he is
still mostly believed that Lee
414
00:23:57,940 –> 00:24:02,260
Harvey Oswald acted alone and
fired all of the bullets.
415
00:24:02,460 –> 00:24:05,900
I don’t know.
I don’t know how you reconcile
416
00:24:05,900 –> 00:24:08,740
those two thoughts in your head,
but I’ve never watched the
417
00:24:08,900 –> 00:24:11,540
president’s head explode 50 feet
in front of.
418
00:24:11,860 –> 00:24:14,580
Me either, right?
Yeah, I don’t know, man.
419
00:24:14,580 –> 00:24:18,580
Like, I don’t think it’s that
crazy to think that Oswald did
420
00:24:18,580 –> 00:24:21,660
it himself, but there are
definitely a lot of weird
421
00:24:22,140 –> 00:24:27,060
circumstances surrounding it
that make it a weird event.
422
00:24:27,260 –> 00:24:30,140
But yeah, someone who is there,
I understand just being like,
423
00:24:30,140 –> 00:24:31,940
yeah, that makes sense enough to
me.
424
00:24:31,940 –> 00:24:35,180
I don’t want to put too much out
more thought into this.
425
00:24:35,860 –> 00:24:38,020
Yeah, that’s got to be the other
thing.
426
00:24:38,480 –> 00:24:42,680
Like, by the time the Warren
Commission report comes out,
427
00:24:42,680 –> 00:24:48,000
it’s 1979.
And in terms of the government
428
00:24:48,000 –> 00:24:51,000
definitely not murdering
progressive leaders in this
429
00:24:51,000 –> 00:24:55,960
country, JFK was like, literally
the tip of the iceberg.
430
00:24:56,200 –> 00:25:00,400
Like, right?
He was first, but we spent the
431
00:25:00,400 –> 00:25:05,440
better part of the 60s just
assassinating progressives in
432
00:25:05,440 –> 00:25:10,780
this country, and I got to
imagine, by the time 1979 rolls
433
00:25:10,780 –> 00:25:12,500
around, you’re just like, shit,
man.
434
00:25:12,820 –> 00:25:15,700
I’m not going to say nothing.
Not trying to get assassinated,
435
00:25:15,740 –> 00:25:17,860
also sure.
That makes sense.
436
00:25:18,540 –> 00:25:22,420
And so the question is, like,
why come forward now?
437
00:25:22,540 –> 00:25:25,500
Like, right.
And I mean, my guess and a lot
438
00:25:25,500 –> 00:25:28,820
of other people’s guess is he’s
trying to clear his conscience.
439
00:25:28,940 –> 00:25:32,460
This guy’s 88 years old.
Like, yeah, he’s trying to get
440
00:25:32,460 –> 00:25:36,100
what he knows out there.
Either that or he’s just part of
441
00:25:36,100 –> 00:25:39,000
some other bigger massive
conspiracy.
442
00:25:39,000 –> 00:25:44,200
Well, who knows, or?
He was, like so many seniors,
443
00:25:44,440 –> 00:25:47,840
radicalized by conspiracy
theorists, which seems to be the
444
00:25:47,840 –> 00:25:52,400
case because they talk about
him, you know, getting a book
445
00:25:52,400 –> 00:25:55,520
and like people talking to him
and seeking him out and all this
446
00:25:55,520 –> 00:25:57,560
stuff.
And I don’t know, man, seems
447
00:25:57,560 –> 00:26:00,960
like maybe he’s just like, I
have this unique window into
448
00:26:00,960 –> 00:26:03,880
this event.
It’s time for me to let my story
449
00:26:03,880 –> 00:26:07,480
be heard.
Yeah, and provided his story is
450
00:26:07,480 –> 00:26:10,800
true, I’m fine with it happening
that way.
451
00:26:11,040 –> 00:26:13,960
Sure.
Because I mean, between the two,
452
00:26:13,960 –> 00:26:15,720
his story is the more
believable.
453
00:26:15,840 –> 00:26:18,960
Absolutely.
Like, it’s way more believable
454
00:26:18,960 –> 00:26:23,600
than the idea that this bullet
traversed all of those barriers.
455
00:26:23,640 –> 00:26:27,120
Yeah, and came out the other end
looking like a new bullet.
456
00:26:27,320 –> 00:26:30,080
It makes sense that it’s just a
different bullet than the one
457
00:26:30,080 –> 00:26:33,160
that caused that, those
injuries, which is what he’s
458
00:26:33,160 –> 00:26:36,990
basically saying, right?
But then they also never found
459
00:26:36,990 –> 00:26:38,670
the bullet that caused all those
injuries.
460
00:26:38,670 –> 00:26:43,190
If that’s the case, which come?
Sure, but again blows up that
461
00:26:43,350 –> 00:26:45,110
theory.
Yeah, but have you, have we
462
00:26:45,110 –> 00:26:46,950
heard about any of the other
bullets?
463
00:26:46,950 –> 00:26:50,030
Like, I don’t think we found, I
don’t know how many bullets, but
464
00:26:50,030 –> 00:26:52,590
from the JFK assassination we
found.
465
00:26:52,830 –> 00:26:55,150
Well, they took his brain, for
one thing.
466
00:26:55,350 –> 00:26:57,670
Yeah, I knew that.
I remember that one of those
467
00:26:57,670 –> 00:27:00,390
bullets might have been in that
head that exploded.
468
00:27:00,950 –> 00:27:03,670
Yeah, but like, but again, the
head exploded.
469
00:27:04,030 –> 00:27:06,990
And like a bunch of the stuff
that was inside of it is now
470
00:27:06,990 –> 00:27:09,630
outside.
And which we see pictures of in
471
00:27:09,630 –> 00:27:11,430
this New York Times article, by
the way.
472
00:27:11,510 –> 00:27:15,190
Yeah, it’s.
Very graphic, Pretty graphic.
473
00:27:15,510 –> 00:27:17,830
But yeah, this was such a big
investigation.
474
00:27:17,830 –> 00:27:21,270
Like if the bullet just like
bounced out onto the street, I
475
00:27:21,270 –> 00:27:22,870
feel like.
Well, that’s that’s what I’m
476
00:27:22,870 –> 00:27:24,230
saying.
Like, I don’t know what happened
477
00:27:24,230 –> 00:27:27,810
to those other bullets.
This is the only bullet I know
478
00:27:27,810 –> 00:27:30,010
the location of.
Here’s the thing.
479
00:27:30,010 –> 00:27:33,570
I also know what didn’t happen
to any of those bullets, and
480
00:27:33,570 –> 00:27:36,690
it’s that none of them passed
through Kennedy’s neck, went
481
00:27:36,690 –> 00:27:40,970
into Connolly’s chest, came out
his wrist, passed through a back
482
00:27:40,970 –> 00:27:45,450
brace, shattered a few ribs, and
then came out shining like a new
483
00:27:45,450 –> 00:27:46,370
diamond.
Like.
484
00:27:46,730 –> 00:27:48,250
Right.
I don’t think that happened
485
00:27:48,250 –> 00:27:50,050
either.
Even if this isn’t the same
486
00:27:50,050 –> 00:27:52,210
bullet, that bullet did not
happen.
487
00:27:52,410 –> 00:27:55,230
Like there’s no fucking way.
Like well.
488
00:27:55,350 –> 00:27:57,830
Right.
But that what I’m saying is like
489
00:27:58,070 –> 00:28:01,110
the whole thing about the magic
bullet, part of it is that it’s
490
00:28:01,270 –> 00:28:05,470
totally undamaged.
And that undamaged bullet is
491
00:28:05,710 –> 00:28:08,710
this one that we’re talking
about that he found, right?
492
00:28:08,710 –> 00:28:11,830
That right, it turns out wasn’t
the magic bullet.
493
00:28:11,830 –> 00:28:13,790
It was.
It went through Kennedy only,
494
00:28:13,910 –> 00:28:17,830
but that’s not the conclude like
the bullet he found is the
495
00:28:17,830 –> 00:28:19,750
bullet that they call the magic
bullet.
496
00:28:20,270 –> 00:28:22,070
I know that.
But it didn’t.
497
00:28:22,510 –> 00:28:24,670
It didn’t do the things that
they say it did.
498
00:28:24,670 –> 00:28:28,030
It only went through Kennedy.
How do you know that the bull
499
00:28:28,030 –> 00:28:30,390
because he.
Found it lodged in his seats.
500
00:28:30,390 –> 00:28:34,030
He found it lodged in his seat.
He didn’t find it lodged in
501
00:28:34,030 –> 00:28:36,430
Kennedy like it was.
I know.
502
00:28:36,430 –> 00:28:39,790
So it like, went in Kennedy and
like fucking backed out.
503
00:28:39,950 –> 00:28:43,950
What he wasn’t.
He didn’t find the bullet lodged
504
00:28:43,950 –> 00:28:48,190
in John Kennedy.
It was in the seat behind him,
505
00:28:48,600 –> 00:28:52,280
so, right, so that bullet you
think went through Kennedy and
506
00:28:52,280 –> 00:28:54,960
then back into the seat?
I don’t know.
507
00:28:54,960 –> 00:28:57,880
I’ve gotten some geography mixed
up here.
508
00:28:57,880 –> 00:29:00,560
I don’t know.
I don’t know because I mean,
509
00:29:00,560 –> 00:29:02,360
that would explain the lack of
damage.
510
00:29:02,360 –> 00:29:05,120
It didn’t go through anyone.
It was just right.
511
00:29:05,390 –> 00:29:10,990
It was just an extra bullet that
sure was found and used to come
512
00:29:10,990 –> 00:29:15,430
up with the conclusion in the
fucking JFK assassination.
513
00:29:15,430 –> 00:29:17,510
Which that’s nuts.
Like I don’t.
514
00:29:17,510 –> 00:29:20,510
Yeah, I don’t know what this
bullet was, but I don’t think it
515
00:29:20,670 –> 00:29:22,070
hit anybody.
Sure.
516
00:29:22,190 –> 00:29:24,270
Which means.
Yeah, that’s that’s possible.
517
00:29:24,390 –> 00:29:26,150
But we also know two shots hit
him.
518
00:29:26,270 –> 00:29:30,420
So then sure, where did this
spent bullet come from like that
519
00:29:30,460 –> 00:29:33,980
I think would speak to there
being a different shooter.
520
00:29:34,060 –> 00:29:38,980
Yeah, I will say I If this guy’s
report is accurate, it does kind
521
00:29:38,980 –> 00:29:43,460
of put the kibosh on my favorite
JFK conspiracy, which is that
522
00:29:43,460 –> 00:29:45,060
one of the Secret Service
agents.
523
00:29:45,340 –> 00:29:49,580
Maybe he’s hiding the fact that
he shot Kennedy in the head.
524
00:29:49,740 –> 00:29:53,370
I mean, it could be, but I don’t
think this this idea blows that
525
00:29:53,370 –> 00:29:55,930
theory up at all, cuz that’s
also my favorite theory.
526
00:29:55,930 –> 00:29:59,410
It’s I think the most sound JFK
theory there is.
527
00:29:59,410 –> 00:30:01,610
There’s a documentary about it
that I bring up all the time
528
00:30:01,610 –> 00:30:05,530
called JFK the Smoking Gun.
And that theory comes from the
529
00:30:05,530 –> 00:30:10,490
one guy who was able to recreate
Oswald’s shots.
530
00:30:10,570 –> 00:30:14,850
Because remember, CBS tried.
They had like a huge group of
531
00:30:14,850 –> 00:30:19,490
firearms experts, marksmen,
Ballistics experts all try and
532
00:30:19,490 –> 00:30:23,090
recreate these shots.
And only one guy was able to do
533
00:30:23,090 –> 00:30:24,930
it.
And he was like, if it was that
534
00:30:24,930 –> 00:30:27,450
hard for me.
Lee Harvey Oswald didn’t fucking
535
00:30:27,450 –> 00:30:31,250
do this alone.
And he spent decades looking at
536
00:30:31,250 –> 00:30:33,730
the Ballistics evidence.
And what he came up with was
537
00:30:33,730 –> 00:30:39,250
that Kennedy was clearly hit by
two different types of bullets.
538
00:30:40,250 –> 00:30:43,610
And what I love about that
theory is it makes everyone
539
00:30:43,610 –> 00:30:46,690
right.
Like, yes, Lee Harvey Oswald was
540
00:30:46,690 –> 00:30:50,210
the only assassin on the scene.
But yes, another bullet did hit
541
00:30:50,210 –> 00:30:52,010
Kennedy.
It’s just that it was an
542
00:30:52,010 –> 00:30:54,570
accident.
And yes, of course the American
543
00:30:54,570 –> 00:30:58,250
government covered that shit up
like you’re not going to come
544
00:30:58,250 –> 00:31:03,450
out and be like oopsie whoopsie
Secret Service shot Kennedy in
545
00:31:03,450 –> 00:31:05,530
the head.
But I do think that’s what
546
00:31:05,530 –> 00:31:09,770
happened and I wouldn’t be
surprised if this guy is more
547
00:31:09,770 –> 00:31:13,690
coming forward to hopefully try
and get that story out.
548
00:31:13,850 –> 00:31:16,730
Yeah, maybe he did it.
Yeah, maybe.
549
00:31:16,970 –> 00:31:18,890
But that’s.
What I would love In the
550
00:31:18,890 –> 00:31:21,930
documentary they identify the
guy that they think did it.
551
00:31:22,450 –> 00:31:25,650
And it was the different guy,
Yeah, because there’s a picture
552
00:31:25,650 –> 00:31:30,210
of him starting to stand up and
which is such a wild picture.
553
00:31:30,290 –> 00:31:32,530
I don’t think I had seen it
before that documentary, but
554
00:31:32,530 –> 00:31:34,330
he’s like standing up with the
gun.
555
00:31:34,590 –> 00:31:37,670
And yeah, the the theory there
is that Secret Service did it on
556
00:31:37,670 –> 00:31:40,510
accident.
I mean, that’s, I think the most
557
00:31:40,510 –> 00:31:42,430
plausible theory.
Now it’s.
558
00:31:42,550 –> 00:31:47,910
The only non Oswald working
alone theory that has made any
559
00:31:47,910 –> 00:31:51,630
sense to me.
Yeah, but I I won’t say it’s my
560
00:31:51,630 –> 00:31:56,390
favorite theory.
My favorite theory is that JFK’s
561
00:31:56,390 –> 00:32:00,750
limo driver shot him with a
shellfish toxin bullet.
562
00:32:00,990 –> 00:32:02,310
The reason?
It’s my favorite.
563
00:32:02,310 –> 00:32:04,350
I don’t think it’s true, but.
No.
564
00:32:04,630 –> 00:32:08,390
Well, here’s the thing.
You you scoff at the idea of the
565
00:32:08,430 –> 00:32:09,470
shellfish.
You scoff.
566
00:32:09,990 –> 00:32:11,790
OK?
Go watch the Church Committee
567
00:32:11,790 –> 00:32:18,270
hearings where the CIA director
produces the shellfish toxin gun
568
00:32:18,630 –> 00:32:22,670
and shows how it works.
I don’t think JFK was killed
569
00:32:22,670 –> 00:32:27,070
with it, but the CIA absolutely
looked into shellfish toxin as a
570
00:32:27,070 –> 00:32:30,550
means of assassination.
That’s not a joke.
571
00:32:30,750 –> 00:32:34,850
Like it sounds funny but.
It does, I know.
572
00:32:34,850 –> 00:32:40,970
But they also did it, and it’s
like they testified to it in
573
00:32:40,970 –> 00:32:42,250
public.
No, I’m not.
574
00:32:42,610 –> 00:32:44,730
That wasn’t a laugh of
dismissal.
575
00:32:44,730 –> 00:32:46,850
That was a laugh of This is
funny.
576
00:32:48,850 –> 00:32:51,330
Yeah.
I mean, unless they, like,
577
00:32:51,330 –> 00:32:54,650
killed people that way, which?
Well, sure, but that’s a funny
578
00:32:54,650 –> 00:32:56,290
way to kill someone.
I don’t know.
579
00:32:56,810 –> 00:33:02,080
It’s actually a really like,
it’s kind of the most humane way
580
00:33:02,080 –> 00:33:05,800
to assassinate someone because
you just sort of peacefully die
581
00:33:05,800 –> 00:33:08,000
in a few seconds.
There’s not a lot of pain.
582
00:33:08,160 –> 00:33:12,760
You just kind of go limp and die
because shellfish toxin is like
583
00:33:12,760 –> 00:33:16,480
you can synthesize it into Oh
yeah, chemical weapon.
584
00:33:16,640 –> 00:33:21,880
And I did in episode a while
back where when I was talking
585
00:33:21,880 –> 00:33:25,160
about the book Behold A Pale
Horse, which is where that
586
00:33:25,160 –> 00:33:29,790
theory kind of first came from.
Like, there was a point where it
587
00:33:29,790 –> 00:33:33,190
was ordered that we had to,
like, get rid of all of our
588
00:33:33,350 –> 00:33:37,230
chemical weapons and a bunch of
shellfish toxin just like, went
589
00:33:37,430 –> 00:33:40,870
missing.
So it’s like just out there
590
00:33:40,870 –> 00:33:42,630
somewhere still.
Yeah.
591
00:33:43,150 –> 00:33:47,310
And like, I love that theory,
but I also don’t believe it
592
00:33:47,470 –> 00:33:49,590
mostly.
Well, well, for one thing, I
593
00:33:49,590 –> 00:33:52,430
don’t think like even if we had
that technology, which we
594
00:33:52,430 –> 00:33:55,470
clearly did by some point in
history, I don’t know that we
595
00:33:55,470 –> 00:33:56,900
had it then.
I don’t know.
596
00:33:56,900 –> 00:33:59,700
That by Well, sure.
And also, it’s kind of a moot
597
00:33:59,700 –> 00:34:04,020
point when we have video footage
of Jackie O taking a shower and
598
00:34:04,020 –> 00:34:08,300
Jfk’s brains from the day.
So, like, it doesn’t really
599
00:34:08,300 –> 00:34:09,820
matter.
There’s that.
600
00:34:09,900 –> 00:34:14,540
When William Cooper was selling
The Theory, though he did sell
601
00:34:14,540 –> 00:34:18,540
his own version of the Subruder
film that was, like, slowed down
602
00:34:18,540 –> 00:34:21,179
to show you where this shooting
happened.
603
00:34:21,300 –> 00:34:25,340
But my problem with it, on top
of the fact that everything Bill
604
00:34:25,340 –> 00:34:29,540
Cooper ever said was like, based
on one memory from like 1965,
605
00:34:30,980 –> 00:34:35,780
but beyond that, the way he
describes the shellfish toxin
606
00:34:36,060 –> 00:34:40,580
gun that he claims the limo
driver used to kill JFK, it
607
00:34:40,580 –> 00:34:45,860
doesn’t work the way the one the
CIA later produced works because
608
00:34:45,860 –> 00:34:48,739
yeah, he was like, well, the
limo driver.
609
00:34:48,739 –> 00:34:51,380
Of course you’re gonna have the
limo driver do it because you
610
00:34:51,380 –> 00:34:55,100
want someone close in case the
shellfish toxin doesn’t work,
611
00:34:55,420 –> 00:34:58,620
You want the bullet or the
pellet to explode in their head.
612
00:34:58,940 –> 00:35:01,860
And it’s like, well, then why
not just shoot him in the face
613
00:35:02,060 –> 00:35:05,460
if that’s the thing?
And also that’s not how the
614
00:35:05,460 –> 00:35:09,620
delivery system for this
shellfish toxin weapon worked.
615
00:35:09,620 –> 00:35:13,260
It was like truly movie shit,
where it’s not a bullet, it’s
616
00:35:13,260 –> 00:35:15,680
like a little neat.
Yeah, it’s a dirt.
617
00:35:15,720 –> 00:35:16,480
Yeah.
Yeah.
618
00:35:16,960 –> 00:35:18,760
I’m just saying like, this is
what I’m saying.
619
00:35:18,960 –> 00:35:23,520
Like, that makes no sense
because you use the self, the
620
00:35:23,520 –> 00:35:27,600
shelffish toxin, when you want
to quietly murder someone
621
00:35:27,720 –> 00:35:30,400
without people drawing a bunch
of attention to it.
622
00:35:30,640 –> 00:35:35,640
You don’t do that in public and
then I guess have someone else
623
00:35:36,080 –> 00:35:38,920
shoot him in the head for good
measure.
624
00:35:39,420 –> 00:35:43,180
And also having the person who
shoots him in the head to cover
625
00:35:43,180 –> 00:35:46,660
it up, putting them in a 6th
floor book depository way up
626
00:35:46,660 –> 00:35:47,700
there.
Wait.
627
00:35:48,140 –> 00:35:50,860
You’re away.
You’re really rolling the dice
628
00:35:50,860 –> 00:35:54,500
on those shots, missing Kennedy
and then he just dies anyway,
629
00:35:54,900 –> 00:35:56,900
Like.
Yeah, well that’s also you don’t
630
00:35:56,900 –> 00:35:59,140
want that guy that possibly get
away.
631
00:35:59,180 –> 00:36:01,660
You would put him close so we
could get captured?
632
00:36:01,740 –> 00:36:03,620
Yeah, yeah.
It just doesn’t make sense at
633
00:36:03,620 –> 00:36:05,540
all.
Yeah, it’s my favorite theory.
634
00:36:05,540 –> 00:36:09,000
I just don’t believe it.
But yeah, like from an
635
00:36:09,000 –> 00:36:11,200
entertainment standpoint, it’s
my.
636
00:36:11,560 –> 00:36:14,800
So wait, OK, this is not the
point of the episode, but I do
637
00:36:14,800 –> 00:36:15,920
need to know.
Yes.
638
00:36:15,920 –> 00:36:19,480
So like is the chain of events
that he’s describing.
639
00:36:19,640 –> 00:36:24,240
The limo driver shoots JFK with
the with the poison.
640
00:36:24,360 –> 00:36:29,640
And then, as JFK is dying, he
has Lee Harvey Oswald.
641
00:36:30,050 –> 00:36:33,690
Shoot him.
No, it’s that once Lee Harvey
642
00:36:33,690 –> 00:36:37,250
Oswald shoots and all the
commotion starts, the limo
643
00:36:37,250 –> 00:36:40,970
driver just turns around and
shoots Kennedy while everyone
644
00:36:40,970 –> 00:36:43,890
else is distracted.
Which, well, why not just shoot
645
00:36:43,930 –> 00:36:46,530
it with a gun?
Exactly.
646
00:36:46,530 –> 00:36:48,810
That was exactly my objection to
the fear.
647
00:36:48,810 –> 00:36:52,970
Makes no sense.
Like, it’s such an elaborate
648
00:36:52,970 –> 00:36:57,130
ruse when if we’re talking
shellfish toxin, couldn’t you
649
00:36:57,130 –> 00:37:00,090
just had this motherfucker eat
lobster at one of his events and
650
00:37:00,090 –> 00:37:03,290
then like, fucking shoot him on
the way out and be like, oh, who
651
00:37:03,290 –> 00:37:05,730
knew a guy from Massachusetts Is
this?
652
00:37:11,730 –> 00:37:13,810
Yeah, the shellfish toxin gun
doesn’t make sense.
653
00:37:13,810 –> 00:37:17,250
But I am obsessed with the
shellfish toxin gun and I do
654
00:37:17,250 –> 00:37:19,370
need to know it.
Sounds like he it sounds like
655
00:37:19,370 –> 00:37:23,330
that guy just he just heard
about the idea of a shellfish
656
00:37:23,330 –> 00:37:25,370
toxin gun.
There was like what if they use
657
00:37:25,370 –> 00:37:28,810
that to kill JFK?
Not thinking whether that makes
658
00:37:28,810 –> 00:37:32,240
sense, right?
And yeah, I don’t know that they
659
00:37:32,440 –> 00:37:35,960
JFK exhibited and I don’t know
why we’re debating this.
660
00:37:36,400 –> 00:37:38,520
Like me, neither.
The show was talking.
661
00:37:38,520 –> 00:37:40,120
Something didn’t happen.
I just think it’s fun.
662
00:37:40,320 –> 00:37:43,880
But I do also think the Secret
Service accidentally shooting
663
00:37:43,880 –> 00:37:47,840
him is probably the most sound
theory I like.
664
00:37:47,960 –> 00:37:51,800
That idea, it explains so much.
It also explains, like, if you
665
00:37:51,800 –> 00:37:56,080
watch the Sapruder film, he
reacts differently each time he
666
00:37:56,080 –> 00:38:00,430
shot, as if he’s being hit by
different types of bullets, like
667
00:38:00,430 –> 00:38:03,870
one of the bullets like,
explodes and the other just goes
668
00:38:03,870 –> 00:38:07,310
through him.
And yeah, that theory is that
669
00:38:07,470 –> 00:38:09,590
it’s because there were two
different types of bullets, what
670
00:38:09,590 –> 00:38:11,830
the Secret Service was shooting
and what Lee Harvey Oswald was
671
00:38:11,830 –> 00:38:14,750
shooting.
So my big question with this
672
00:38:14,750 –> 00:38:19,270
Paul Landis guy, What the fuck
is this book gonna be?
673
00:38:19,790 –> 00:38:21,910
Yeah, that’s my question.
Sounds boring.
674
00:38:21,910 –> 00:38:26,870
Yeah, he’s got a book coming out
October 10th or something called
675
00:38:26,870 –> 00:38:30,460
The Final Witness.
Yeah, and I know, like
676
00:38:30,660 –> 00:38:33,940
conventional wisdom would say
that you and I wait for that
677
00:38:33,940 –> 00:38:37,620
book to come out and read it and
then do this episode.
678
00:38:37,620 –> 00:38:39,820
But like, what the fuck else is
going to be in it?
679
00:38:40,100 –> 00:38:41,740
Other things, right.
Exactly.
680
00:38:42,020 –> 00:38:45,340
Like, I feel like they really,
this feels like a government
681
00:38:45,340 –> 00:38:46,900
plot.
Like, yeah, we’ll give you a
682
00:38:46,900 –> 00:38:50,580
write up in the New York Times
now that one’s ever going to
683
00:38:50,580 –> 00:38:53,980
read your book because we just
told everyone what’s in it.
684
00:38:54,140 –> 00:38:56,380
Well, cuz like, I got to the end
of this thing and I’m like.
685
00:38:56,680 –> 00:38:59,520
Why did the New York Times write
an article about this guy?
686
00:38:59,520 –> 00:39:03,600
There’s not anything in this
article, really, other than a
687
00:39:03,600 –> 00:39:06,960
few him talking about this for
like a few paragraphs.
688
00:39:07,200 –> 00:39:09,900
And then that’s it.
I mean, it makes it sound like
689
00:39:09,900 –> 00:39:12,020
it’s going to be a memoir.
And I don’t want to read about
690
00:39:12,020 –> 00:39:14,180
this guy’s life.
Yeah, I don’t want to read this
691
00:39:14,180 –> 00:39:17,260
guy’s memoir at all.
I mean, his claim about that
692
00:39:17,260 –> 00:39:19,580
bullet is pretty important,
like.
693
00:39:19,580 –> 00:39:23,100
It it’s interesting.
Like it kind of blows up the
694
00:39:23,100 –> 00:39:26,660
magic bullet theory if he’s
right, because then it’s clearly
695
00:39:26,660 –> 00:39:31,220
not the bullet they say it is.
Unless it’s even more magic and
696
00:39:31,220 –> 00:39:34,860
it like, reshaped itself into a
bullet and then just went and
697
00:39:34,860 –> 00:39:37,020
nestled behind Kennedy for the
rest of the trip.
698
00:39:37,100 –> 00:39:41,200
But sure, beyond that, like,
what he’s saying does really
699
00:39:41,200 –> 00:39:44,040
poke some holes in that theory.
But like, So what?
700
00:39:44,360 –> 00:39:47,720
Like what’s going to come of it?
That’s the frustrating thing, is
701
00:39:47,720 –> 00:39:52,240
there’s still as much as they’ve
released about Kennedy, there’s
702
00:39:52,240 –> 00:39:56,880
still those last few pages that
are still classified.
703
00:39:57,080 –> 00:39:59,320
And God damn it, I feel like
that’s where they’re like,
704
00:39:59,640 –> 00:40:01,680
actually the Secret Service
accidentally did it.
705
00:40:03,360 –> 00:40:04,520
And you know what?
Maybe.
706
00:40:04,600 –> 00:40:07,000
I feel like if they just came
out and said that.
707
00:40:07,740 –> 00:40:11,020
I don’t think there would be the
amount of uproar that people
708
00:40:11,220 –> 00:40:14,060
think there would be even if we
knew they actively covered it
709
00:40:14,060 –> 00:40:16,940
up, right?
I think at this point in history
710
00:40:16,940 –> 00:40:20,580
we have so many bigger fish to
fry, I don’t think people would
711
00:40:20,580 –> 00:40:23,460
be that alarmed.
It’s also nobody would care.
712
00:40:23,660 –> 00:40:26,940
They’d be joking about it for a
few days on Twitter and then it
713
00:40:26,940 –> 00:40:29,620
would be forgotten like
everything else that happens.
714
00:40:30,010 –> 00:40:33,490
Either that or we would just
still act like it’s a conspiracy
715
00:40:33,490 –> 00:40:35,810
theory, even though the
government is just straight up
716
00:40:35,810 –> 00:40:37,210
saying it.
Who knows?
717
00:40:37,850 –> 00:40:41,610
Yeah, they need to just just
declassify everything.
718
00:40:41,610 –> 00:40:43,290
Fucking get it over with.
Come on.
719
00:40:43,450 –> 00:40:45,410
JFK and Elvis both.
I need.
720
00:40:46,010 –> 00:40:49,850
I need the rest of Elvis’s file,
the part that’s still classified
721
00:40:49,850 –> 00:40:53,250
for national security reasons.
I need to know what those
722
00:40:53,250 –> 00:40:56,930
national security reasons are.
He was just Elvis.
723
00:40:57,810 –> 00:41:00,860
Just Elvis.
I mean, he was just Elvis, like
724
00:41:00,860 –> 00:41:03,700
he was a big time performer, but
he wasn’t.
725
00:41:03,900 –> 00:41:08,940
As far as we know, he wasn’t a
government asset of any sort.
726
00:41:09,060 –> 00:41:10,940
So release the rest of those
files.
727
00:41:10,940 –> 00:41:14,580
Let me know what Argentina he
lived the rest of his life.
728
00:41:15,020 –> 00:41:18,460
Sucks that he had to live with
all those Nazis for the rest of
729
00:41:18,540 –> 00:41:20,620
right?
I know I would not choose my
730
00:41:20,820 –> 00:41:25,460
post identity.
Change location to be Argentina,
731
00:41:25,620 –> 00:41:27,340
yeah.
I don’t think you get to choose.
732
00:41:27,630 –> 00:41:30,070
So at least he saw Maradona win
a World Cup.
733
00:41:30,510 –> 00:41:31,510
Yeah.
There you go.
734
00:41:31,510 –> 00:41:32,750
Exactly.
Sorry.
735
00:41:32,750 –> 00:41:34,110
I know exactly what I was going
to.
736
00:41:34,110 –> 00:41:35,870
Say, I know you were probably.
Yeah, I know you were going to
737
00:41:35,870 –> 00:41:36,590
say that.
Sorry.
738
00:41:36,830 –> 00:41:41,830
So yeah, that’s the other thing
about this guy.
739
00:41:41,830 –> 00:41:43,510
He’s got a book coming out.
Yes.
740
00:41:43,510 –> 00:41:46,470
And on the one hand, it’s
tempting to be like, well,
741
00:41:46,750 –> 00:41:48,350
there’s there’s why he would
lie.
742
00:41:48,510 –> 00:41:51,310
He’s going to make a billion
dollars off this book.
743
00:41:51,310 –> 00:41:52,750
No he’s not.
No one.
744
00:41:52,950 –> 00:41:55,990
No one’s going to buy this book.
Like, I’m not going to buy it.
745
00:41:56,780 –> 00:42:00,220
Like I’ve heard, it will be the
same hardcore people who buy
746
00:42:00,220 –> 00:42:03,060
everyone of these books.
Yeah, who buys it?
747
00:42:03,340 –> 00:42:07,660
And like, I do think this guy
believes what he’s saying.
748
00:42:07,820 –> 00:42:10,740
I don’t sure necessarily not
believe him.
749
00:42:10,940 –> 00:42:13,900
I mean, there’s some
discrepancies in his story.
750
00:42:14,020 –> 00:42:18,900
He did issue a statement, like
almost immediately after the
751
00:42:18,900 –> 00:42:22,900
Kennedy assassination where he
didn’t mention any of this
752
00:42:22,900 –> 00:42:25,820
stuff, right?
He said he heard two shots.
753
00:42:26,330 –> 00:42:29,930
And that was it.
Which I know that seems suspect
754
00:42:29,930 –> 00:42:33,690
at first, But also imagine
you’re the guy that, like,
755
00:42:34,010 –> 00:42:37,570
pilfered evidence from Kennedy’s
limousine and then just
756
00:42:37,570 –> 00:42:41,250
haphazardly tossed it on a
stretcher and now they’re asking
757
00:42:41,250 –> 00:42:43,250
you what happened.
You’re not going to say that
758
00:42:43,250 –> 00:42:45,490
part.
You’re not, you’re not going to
759
00:42:45,490 –> 00:42:47,330
admit to tampering with
evidence.
760
00:42:47,330 –> 00:42:50,690
And he even says that he’s like
by the time they asked me for a
761
00:42:50,690 –> 00:42:53,500
statement.
I was like, did I do something
762
00:42:53,500 –> 00:42:55,060
wrong?
I might have done something
763
00:42:55,060 –> 00:42:58,260
wrong here.
So he wasn’t honest in his
764
00:42:58,260 –> 00:42:59,540
statement.
Which right.
765
00:42:59,900 –> 00:43:02,420
I know that’s like the
statement’s contradictory to
766
00:43:02,420 –> 00:43:05,700
what he’s saying now, but I
think that’s a pretty valid
767
00:43:05,860 –> 00:43:07,420
explanation.
Sure.
768
00:43:07,660 –> 00:43:11,240
And I think it’s.
As questionable that his
769
00:43:11,240 –> 00:43:14,840
statement changed, I find it
equally questionable that the
770
00:43:14,840 –> 00:43:16,960
Warren Commission never
interviewed him.
771
00:43:17,200 –> 00:43:20,120
Yeah, they should have.
That was a real over oversight.
772
00:43:20,200 –> 00:43:22,960
Yeah, like he was in the
motorcade.
773
00:43:22,960 –> 00:43:25,080
He was protecting Jackie
Kennedy.
774
00:43:25,240 –> 00:43:28,640
It makes no sense to not
interview all of those people.
775
00:43:29,040 –> 00:43:33,230
No sense at all.
And his thinking for a long time
776
00:43:33,230 –> 00:43:37,190
was, well, a bunch of Secret
Service agents went out and,
777
00:43:37,190 –> 00:43:40,510
like, partied till 5:00 in the
morning before that happened.
778
00:43:41,150 –> 00:43:43,630
No.
He makes it clear that they were
779
00:43:43,630 –> 00:43:45,990
not drinking until 5:00 in the
morning.
780
00:43:46,030 –> 00:43:47,910
Uh, sure.
Yeah.
781
00:43:48,110 –> 00:43:49,550
In Dallas.
Yeah.
782
00:43:50,150 –> 00:43:53,190
No, we’re just doing loads of
coke get exactly.
783
00:43:53,230 –> 00:43:54,790
Get drunk.
That’s irresponsible.
784
00:43:54,950 –> 00:43:57,390
Yeah.
He for a lot of years thought
785
00:43:57,390 –> 00:43:59,390
they were just kind of
protecting.
786
00:43:59,810 –> 00:44:03,490
The agents who went out, which
in retrospect that doesn’t make
787
00:44:03,490 –> 00:44:05,530
a ton of sense.
But I I mean, this guy would
788
00:44:05,530 –> 00:44:10,890
have his reasons for sure, not
being completely upfront at 1st
789
00:44:11,050 –> 00:44:15,650
and finally at the age of 88
coming out and telling the
790
00:44:15,650 –> 00:44:17,810
story.
Although, yeah, the book, I
791
00:44:17,810 –> 00:44:19,130
can’t do it.
I know, I know.
792
00:44:19,130 –> 00:44:22,570
The book is just going to be
like 60 years of not telling
793
00:44:22,610 –> 00:44:27,010
this story in 1945 and I no
thanks.
794
00:44:27,970 –> 00:44:31,360
Yeah, hard pass.
On that, which, yeah, that’s why
795
00:44:31,360 –> 00:44:33,280
I found this art.
Will link to the article.
796
00:44:33,320 –> 00:44:35,160
That’s what I found so
fascinating about it.
797
00:44:35,160 –> 00:44:37,480
It’s like, who’s gonna read the
book after this?
798
00:44:37,480 –> 00:44:40,920
Like, I’m sure, yeah.
Like, the big explosive detail
799
00:44:40,920 –> 00:44:43,320
is like right there in this New
York Times article.
800
00:44:43,520 –> 00:44:45,400
Yeah.
So I don’t know.
801
00:44:45,640 –> 00:44:49,000
But yeah, I mean if anyone wants
to read it and get back to us
802
00:44:49,000 –> 00:44:52,340
and tell us if there’s any.
Anything else interesting?
803
00:44:52,460 –> 00:44:56,260
What if it’s just 10 chapters
about how aliens actually killed
804
00:44:56,380 –> 00:44:58,700
JFK?
The New York Times.
805
00:44:58,700 –> 00:45:02,820
That would be more interesting
than most of the JFK theories.
806
00:45:02,860 –> 00:45:05,060
So I would be into that.
That’s true.
807
00:45:05,820 –> 00:45:09,580
It would be funny like he would
probably make the same amount of
808
00:45:09,580 –> 00:45:13,420
money from this book if it was
not a book and it was just a
809
00:45:13,420 –> 00:45:18,170
pamphlet doing step by step what
he did on the day that JFK was
810
00:45:18,170 –> 00:45:20,610
assassinated.
He would make more money
811
00:45:20,610 –> 00:45:25,770
monetizing a YouTube video about
yeah, and selling a book at this
812
00:45:25,770 –> 00:45:28,210
point.
Like he really is aiming for
813
00:45:28,210 –> 00:45:32,330
like that baby boomer conspiracy
elements out there.
814
00:45:32,330 –> 00:45:36,330
Like, yeah, the Youngs are
fucking with, you know, Q Anon
815
00:45:36,330 –> 00:45:41,000
and Skibbity toilets.
So I think that’s our episode.
816
00:45:41,000 –> 00:45:43,160
Do we have any final thoughts on
Paul Landis?
817
00:45:43,160 –> 00:45:45,360
I don’t not believe him.
Yeah, I don’t.
818
00:45:45,400 –> 00:45:49,080
I I’ve got no reason to think
he’s being dishonest.
819
00:45:49,120 –> 00:45:51,600
Uh, yeah.
No, not really.
820
00:45:52,000 –> 00:45:55,040
He he found this bullet.
And I think that that is
821
00:45:55,040 –> 00:45:57,000
definitely worthy of a full
book.
822
00:45:57,880 –> 00:46:00,200
Yeah, that’s the thing.
I just like it’s.
823
00:46:00,780 –> 00:46:03,100
I’m glad he came forward with
this information.
824
00:46:03,380 –> 00:46:06,060
Yeah.
I think it is important to the
825
00:46:06,060 –> 00:46:10,340
JFK assassination story, but I’m
not buying your book, Paul.
826
00:46:10,340 –> 00:46:12,700
That’s that’s a tall ask right
now.
827
00:46:12,740 –> 00:46:14,700
Yes.
So I can get to the end and just
828
00:46:14,700 –> 00:46:16,340
go, Oh yeah, he found the
bullet.
829
00:46:17,060 –> 00:46:18,980
Look at that.
He found that bullet pristine.
830
00:46:18,980 –> 00:46:21,340
Only one or two grains lost.
Go figure.
831
00:46:21,540 –> 00:46:24,620
But yeah, yeah, I think we’re on
the same page as to the most
832
00:46:24,620 –> 00:46:27,100
compelling theory about JFK.
Yes.
833
00:46:27,560 –> 00:46:31,160
Like combination accident and
assassination attempt.
834
00:46:31,600 –> 00:46:32,960
Everyone’s right.
I love it.
835
00:46:33,480 –> 00:46:36,160
Yeah, absolutely.
And yeah, if anyone out there,
836
00:46:36,160 –> 00:46:39,000
have you seen the JFK Smoking
Gun documentary?
837
00:46:39,240 –> 00:46:42,080
No, we’ve talked about it enough
times that I feel like I have.
838
00:46:42,640 –> 00:46:44,280
It’s really good.
I might even see that.
839
00:46:44,360 –> 00:46:46,680
Go back and rewatch it after
this.
840
00:46:47,200 –> 00:46:48,760
Yeah, I need to see it.
It’s on.
841
00:46:48,920 –> 00:46:50,920
I think it’s still on Netflix.
It’s real good.
842
00:46:51,160 –> 00:46:53,440
I can’t recommend it enough.
Go watch it, everybody.
843
00:46:53,600 –> 00:46:55,840
And I think that’s our episode,
right?
844
00:46:57,010 –> 00:47:01,610
Yeah, yeah, That’s our episode.
Unless you have anything to add
845
00:47:01,650 –> 00:47:05,730
about Paul Landis and the not
magic bullet theory, no, I think
846
00:47:05,730 –> 00:47:09,210
you know good for him I hope.
I hope his book goes well.
847
00:47:09,530 –> 00:47:12,090
Yeah, I mean, at least he’ll be
able to hit, like, are there
848
00:47:12,090 –> 00:47:16,570
conspiracy theory conventions?
God, that would be a weird
849
00:47:16,570 –> 00:47:18,370
thing.
They have to exist, right?
850
00:47:19,350 –> 00:47:21,670
They must.
I mean, we went to the Alien
851
00:47:21,910 –> 00:47:25,470
convention, which is basically a
conspiracy convention.
852
00:47:25,630 –> 00:47:27,510
I mean, that was just science.
That’s not.
853
00:47:27,510 –> 00:47:29,070
It’s true.
That’s right.
854
00:47:29,070 –> 00:47:30,430
That was all science.
Yeah.
855
00:47:30,750 –> 00:47:33,190
Walking to be like I feel like
there was probably some people
856
00:47:33,190 –> 00:47:35,950
talking about JFK there too.
Oh, probably.
857
00:47:36,310 –> 00:47:37,710
Yeah.
I’m sure if we dig hard enough,
858
00:47:37,710 –> 00:47:40,990
there’s an Alien JFK conspiracy.
Maybe we’ll cover that for a
859
00:47:40,990 –> 00:47:43,830
bonus episode sometime.
Yeah, exactly.
860
00:47:44,070 –> 00:47:47,110
But.
Until then, we should get the
861
00:47:47,110 –> 00:47:50,630
fuck out of here.
Olivia, thank you so much for
862
00:47:51,270 –> 00:47:53,710
doing this episode.
Thanks for having me.
863
00:47:53,870 –> 00:47:56,710
What do we have to plug before
we get out of here?
864
00:47:56,710 –> 00:47:59,870
I will just plug Adam Todd
brown.substack.com and there’s
865
00:47:59,870 –> 00:48:01,070
gonna be other stuff coming
soon.
866
00:48:01,230 –> 00:48:04,300
How about you?
I mean, you know, I’m not really
867
00:48:04,300 –> 00:48:06,700
doing much right now other than
working.
868
00:48:07,100 –> 00:48:09,700
You can find me on Twitter at Hi
there, Hidar.
869
00:48:09,700 –> 00:48:11,020
I never.
I’m sorry.
870
00:48:11,060 –> 00:48:13,980
You can find me on x.com at Hi
there.
871
00:48:13,980 –> 00:48:18,860
You can X me at Hi there, Hidar.
Is that That’s it.
872
00:48:18,980 –> 00:48:21,180
I don’t know.
Are they calling them Xes?
873
00:48:21,520 –> 00:48:23,360
X is another just calling them
Posts.
874
00:48:23,880 –> 00:48:26,000
OK, that’s so stupid.
Fucking boring.
875
00:48:26,000 –> 00:48:28,680
They should call them posts, but
spell it with an X instead of an
876
00:48:28,800 –> 00:48:31,160
S Oh, and you’d be like.
How do you pronounce this?
877
00:48:31,160 –> 00:48:33,600
I don’t know you’d.
Be like Post.
878
00:48:33,600 –> 00:48:34,720
What’s it look like?
Idiot.
879
00:48:35,640 –> 00:48:37,960
All right, let’s get the fuck
out of here.
880
00:48:37,960 –> 00:48:39,440
Olivia.
Say goodbye.
881
00:48:39,680 –> 00:48:41,200
Bye.
Goodbye, everybody.
882
00:48:41,200 –> 00:48:47,640
We love you, people of Earth.