Conspiracy! The Show 209: The Baby Killer Conspiracy

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Welcome to conspiracy the show.
The world’s most trusted

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conspiracy theory podcast with
your host, Adam Todd Brown and

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Olivia haydar
Hey, everybody, Welcome to

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conspiracy to show.
I’m Adam, Todd Brown and I’m

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Livia haydar.
And we are your hosts Olivia.

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How’s it going?
Oh, it’s going.

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Well, you know, I just watched a
documentary about babies dying.

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This is so feeling good.
This is some heavy stuff, the

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title of this documentary, the
baby killer conspiracy that were

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covering on the Week’s episode
could not be more ripped, from

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the headlines esque, but it
really doesn’t pertain to any.

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Yeah, like, it’s has nothing to
do with abortion or anything.

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No, iPad.
I mean, it’s a tough one to

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Google.
I’ll say that.

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I didn’t love the act of
Googling it.

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Oh yeah, yeah I bet it all
worked out really well sometimes

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I’m like at a loss for what
we’re going to talk about and I

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shit you not, I’ll just run the
word conspiracy through the

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search bar on some streaming.
Service and occasionally, I’ll

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strike gold.
And right.

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I did that, I think, on Amazon
this time and I happen to

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subscribe to Discovery plus
through Amazon.

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Yeah, and on Discovery plus is a
two-part documentary series

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called the baby killer
conspiracy.

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It’s about the stories of three
different.

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Women who were all accused of
killing their children, right?

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And they all went to prison for
it.

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Some of them are Well, in prison
for it.

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Yes.
And the thing is they probably

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did not kill their kids.
Yeah, this documentary made me

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cry twice which is a first for
the show.

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I think it’s it’s rough.
Like this is the kind of thing

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we would normally cover on the
pretty scary podcast because it

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is yeah kind of a true crime
thing like the foundation of

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True Crime.
I say it all the time.

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The Bedrock of the True Crime
genre is Shitty police work,

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like sure with how awful, inept
corrupt cops.

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The True Crime, genre would not
exist.

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It is a celebration of shitty
police work.

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He’d it’s really all the proof
of police abolition and produces

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a position that you need.
Yes, it’s that but it’s also a

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good reminder for people who
just shudder when they hear the

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word conspiracy and like they’re
your mind automatically goes to

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like storming the capital.
And sure stuff like that.

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But this is a conspiracy.
It is, it is like any police

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cover-up is essentially a
conspiracy.

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Sure.
It’s kind of a roundabout it

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because like the conspiracy is
the rot at the heart of almost

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every criminal justice system in
the world.

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Right?
Well I mean this is like a

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physical conspiracy though.
This is people working.

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Oh sure.
Gather toward one end but saying

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they’re working toward Another
end.

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That’s all a great is.
No, I’m not disagreeing, I’m

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definitely.
I’m not disagreeing with the

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conspiracy, it’s just that
they’re not conspiring together

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in the traditional sense that
you run, imagine where the

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parties that are working towards
this.

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Common goal are doing so
independently for the most part

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where they just have all arrived
at this shitty non-scientific

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and Evil baseless Conclusion,
that serves the criminal justice

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system, but like, it definitely
like, you know, they’re

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shredding evidence.
There’s like a lot of classic

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like conspiracy markers in this.
It just happens to be that.

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Nobody really conspires to get,
right?

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It also, I guess not Loosely,
but I guess kind of loosely ties

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into something that I’m pretty,
shocked that apparently we’ve

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never covered on this podcast,
which is the satanic panic,

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because we really, we did a
pretty scary episode about the

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satanic panic and this doesn’t
completely tie into it.

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The way we’re going to bring up
another documentary called the

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syndrome later on.
It plays a very minor role in

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the story here, but that
documentary is about shaken baby

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syndrome which just to tease it
a little bit.

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As it turns out if you’re not
familiar shaken, baby syndrome

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was an idea that was pushed by
the same group that pushed the

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satanic.
Panic and like ritual Mass

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abuse.
And they both ended in the same

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thing which was innocent people
going to prison for things.

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They didn’t actually do.
And in the case of shaken baby

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syndrome, like we all know the
satanic Panic was nonsense now

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but people are still pretty
flabbergasted when they find out

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shaken, baby syndrome is kind of
a myth.

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Well, it’s one that I think is
going to be tough to totally

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stamp out because if you Shake a
baby, it will die.

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That’s the best.
There’s, there’s no doubt that

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shaking in infant violently is
going to Gravely injured.

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That child, that’s not what
anyone is getting that when it

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comes to shaken baby syndrome.
It’s just that, I mean, we’ll

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get into it more later, but the
way shaken baby syndrome has

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been presented to the public is
that if these three symptoms are

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present, it’s always shaken baby
syndrome.

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It can be nothing else.
Like, according to that line of

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thinking, even a fall cannot
yee-haws, the same kind of

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injuries that shaken, baby
syndrome can cause, which is

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insane.
It’s insane.

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Yeah.
And it’s the same sort of

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woman-hating, logical fallacy.
That’s at the heart of the SIDS

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thing that we’re talking about
today, right?

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And it, I mean, it’s kind of at
the heart of what’s happening

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with abortion right now.
It’s been absolutely country to

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100%.
And so, we’ll talk about the

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syndrome a little bit later.
But we’re covering again a

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documentary called baby killer
conspiracy.

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The first woman they bring up
Kathleen foal big.

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Yes she had a troubled
upbringing her father murdered

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her mother for one thing.
Yeah there’s that yeah that’s

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good to have an impact.
So yeah that’s gonna scan, leave

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some scars.
She married an older man named

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Craig.
When she was just barely out of

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high school.
Crazy fucking sucks as a

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husband.
And myself I can tell you Craig,

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a fucking sucks.
Oh yeah, you wouldn’t do what he

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does.
No, no, Craig Craig should be in

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marriage prison for what he did
to eat.

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Yeah, in this documentary, but
their first child, Kayla born in

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1989 died at 19 days old and his
death was attributed to SIDS or

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crib death cot death.
The first child is the one where

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they discover that he has some
sort of loose trachea.

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I feel like They actually caught
like a doctor called it floppy

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larynx yes, yes, exactly.
That’s what I was trying to

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think of.
Yes.

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It’s like floppy is the science
word for it because that really

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popped out.
Yeah.

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Yeah.
But like, you know, that seems

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like a thing that could kill a
baby.

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You know, if not taking care of
ya are if nothing else?

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It could render a baby
unconscious for a bit.

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Yeah, or weaker than you.
You might otherwise be.

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It’s just.
Yeah.

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And next child Patrick born
about a year later at around the

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age of four months, Craig is
awakened by the sound of

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Kathleen screaming.
I should point out.

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Patrick was about four months,
not Craig, he’s her husband,

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right?
If around the age of four months

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Craig, here’s Kathleen
screaming.

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He runs into Patrick’s room,
sees her standing over his crib

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and Patrick wasn’t breathing.
He was rushed to the hospital

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and found to be suffering from
epilepsy and cortical.

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This but they never really
figured out what caused him to

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stop breathing right and he
lived for another four months he

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was having seizures that whole
time and he eventually is

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discovered dead in his crib by
Kathleen and he died from Airway

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obstruction due to an epileptic
seizure was his cause of death.

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Which again, that’s a cause of
death, that’s not child abuse

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like that.
A doctor looked at this child

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and said this is how he died.
He died from a sea.

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Seizure important for later.
Very important.

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Next child, Sarah was born in
October 1992 at the age of ten

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months.
She is found dead in her crib

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and around this time.
Another woman goes on trial.

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Who is a legitimate?
Killer name is Beverly allit.

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And she was murder and kids
during her shift working at a

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hospital, like injecting them
with insulin.

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I believe and not her children
even though I think It’s an

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important distinction as well.
Right.

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Big difference.
But yes, also convicted of

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having an awful haircut.
Yeah.

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Say yeah, she was a fucking
character.

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Whoo.
What’s important about that

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trial is Roy, Meadow Roy Meadow
should be, is he still alive?

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I bet he’s still.
Yeah, let’s shoot that fucker

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into space.
How about that?

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He’s the fuck out of here.
He’s the kind of person that’s

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gonna live to be like a hundred
and fourteen years old.

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Yes exactly.
Roy Meadow.

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Kind of makes a name for himself
during the Beverly allitt trial.

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Like his testimony makes him
like a really early version of

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like a TV.
Like he’s not a TV guy but he’s

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like a celebrity witness.
Yeah, it’s a weird phenomenon

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like if you need to send a woman
to prison for a crime, she

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didn’t commit you call Roy.
Just Gotta.

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Yeah.
And so he becomes very important

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in this story later around this
time.

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There’s a bunch of Profile cases
involving either mother’s

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killing their own children or
this Beverly Alat thing.

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And we did.
We mention this is all happening

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in Australia and the UK, oh, I
don’t think we mentioned

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Australia.
The yeah, Kathy’s and Australia.

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Yes.
And I think Beverly allit was in

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the UK.
Yeah, and Roy Meadow is a

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British doctor.
He had also kind of made a name

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for himself in the field of
Munchausen Syndrome, research.

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Which is a name I spelled
correctly on the first try and I

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was blown away.
I was sure I was going to botch

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it, but well, you’re such a fan
of the Terry Gilliam film Baron

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Munchausen.
Sure.

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And Eminem also, you know, I’ve
heard him course whine about

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that shit so much.
Yeah, I mean, he’s like, the guy

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Roy Meadow is like, the guy who
basically, he popularized.

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The idea of Munchausen Syndrome
by proxy, which is what I think

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most people think.
Of now, when they think this

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Munchausen syndrome in general,
like the idea of pretending that

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a child is sick in order to get
attention, right or making them

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sick or make, but yeah, to the
process option.

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Me and I should say, Eminem
whining about that.

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That’s not me discounting, the
experiences of people suffered.

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This, it’s just me discounting
Eminem’s, experience like that

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guy.
He’s had a good run.

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It’s fine.
He’s doing okay now but I I’m

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sure that was a tough thing to
go through.

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Sure.
Anyway, I bet being married to

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him was a tough thing to go
through.

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Oh no, absolute.
Hi.

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I’m I know it was.
So yeah, he becomes a highly

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sought-after witness in criminal
trials, involving dead children.

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Basically in this what a career
this guy was of the belief.

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Basically that most SIDS deaths
are actually murders especially

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in cases where women And lost
multiple children.

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He’s also really fixated on the
idea that once you’re at a

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certain like economic level in
your life, your kids don’t die.

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Suddenly like that happens to
poor people and that’s facts to

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some extent obvious low.
But that like that’s like saying

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well once you’re rich you should
never get struck by lightning

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because right.
Like the odds he starts bringing

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up our like winning the lottery
struck by lightning, kind of

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shit.
But like, yeah, there’s a lot of

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cases.
Say this.

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You can’t say well hey you’re
too rich to get struck by

220
00:13:03,400 –> 00:13:05,900
lightning.
That’s not how fucking world

221
00:13:05,900 –> 00:13:08,700
Works.
Nope, he’s a fucking asshole and

222
00:13:08,700 –> 00:13:11,700
a monster.
He is the absolute villain of

223
00:13:11,700 –> 00:13:17,300
this documentary and of the
world’s 180g of one of them.

224
00:13:17,600 –> 00:13:20,500
Again, we’re going to have a lot
to say about his use of

225
00:13:20,500 –> 00:13:24,400
Statistics later on.
Yeah, he comes up with a

226
00:13:24,400 –> 00:13:30,300
statistic that is just so
absurd, and the entire War Old

227
00:13:30,300 –> 00:13:32,600
just drinks it in without
question.

228
00:13:32,700 –> 00:13:35,800
It’s nothing.
Well along, didn’t even think

229
00:13:35,800 –> 00:13:39,000
about it.
So, Kathleen full big back to

230
00:13:39,000 –> 00:13:41,700
her.
She and Craig in 1996.

231
00:13:41,700 –> 00:13:44,400
Have their fourth child.
Laura, she died at the age of 18

232
00:13:44,400 –> 00:13:47,600
months and this is the point
where doctors are getting

233
00:13:47,600 –> 00:13:53,000
suspicious because they made a
pretty big production of making

234
00:13:53,000 –> 00:13:56,200
sure this child did not suddenly
died.

235
00:13:56,700 –> 00:14:01,900
Yeah, and then she did, yeah.
And the really sad, it’s

236
00:14:02,100 –> 00:14:04,500
horrifying.
And so the police searched

237
00:14:04,500 –> 00:14:09,000
Kathleen’s house and the baby
shirt seems like it might have a

238
00:14:09,000 –> 00:14:13,500
little bit of blood on it.
But beyond that there’s nothing

239
00:14:13,800 –> 00:14:16,800
in the house that indicates a
murder happened.

240
00:14:16,800 –> 00:14:20,900
Yeah, there’s like any evidence
is what I’m saying, right?

241
00:14:20,900 –> 00:14:22,400
Yeah.
Like on the pillow, there’s like

242
00:14:22,400 –> 00:14:26,000
a tiny like they’re like and
there was a small amount of

243
00:14:26,000 –> 00:14:29,600
blood show found on the pillow
and then they show it, they have

244
00:14:29,800 –> 00:14:33,500
Zoom in.
Yeah, so much because it is such

245
00:14:33,500 –> 00:14:37,500
a Teensy amount of blood.
It could be from anything.

246
00:14:37,700 –> 00:14:40,600
Yeah.
If you had a bloody nose like

247
00:14:40,600 –> 00:14:43,100
just a scratch in your nose, it
was like yeah.

248
00:14:43,100 –> 00:14:47,200
Amount of blood like a minor
amount of blood trickling out of

249
00:14:47,400 –> 00:14:49,600
your nose.
Absolutely.

250
00:14:49,600 –> 00:14:53,700
But beyond that there’s nothing.
There’s nothing that indicates a

251
00:14:53,700 –> 00:14:55,600
murder has happened.
There’s nothing in her

252
00:14:55,600 –> 00:14:59,600
background, really.
That indicates that she would.

253
00:14:59,700 –> 00:15:02,200
Murder her kids.
Yeah, and like this is not

254
00:15:02,200 –> 00:15:04,400
evidence.
This is silly but all of her

255
00:15:04,400 –> 00:15:08,500
friends that she has are
extremely supportive, they are

256
00:15:08,500 –> 00:15:11,300
some of the major supporting
characters in the documentary

257
00:15:11,500 –> 00:15:16,400
and no one thinks that she had
this within her to kill for

258
00:15:16,400 –> 00:15:23,100
babies to kill for babies.
That requires a certain mindset.

259
00:15:23,200 –> 00:15:27,300
What you’ve imagined.
Yeah, I’m gonna argue it’s not

260
00:15:27,300 –> 00:15:31,900
typical Behavior.
You don’t think but the thing is

261
00:15:31,900 –> 00:15:35,900
like, according to this Roy
Meadow guy like women are just

262
00:15:35,900 –> 00:15:39,400
murder in their kids constantly
all the time left and for not

263
00:15:39,400 –> 00:15:44,700
yeah, not only that but like
looking for an excuse to be able

264
00:15:44,700 –> 00:15:47,400
to murder their children.
Like it’s kind of How It’s

265
00:15:47,400 –> 00:15:49,900
phrased.
It’s like you know if a child is

266
00:15:49,900 –> 00:15:53,300
sick, then it might or you know
if the child gets to know what

267
00:15:53,300 –> 00:15:57,600
gets in the way, then it might
present an opportunity for the

268
00:15:57,600 –> 00:16:02,200
mother to Burger this child.
It’s like Who thinks like this?

269
00:16:02,200 –> 00:16:04,000
It’s disgusting.
Yeah.

270
00:16:04,100 –> 00:16:08,100
So the next story they bring up
as Sally Clark.

271
00:16:08,200 –> 00:16:10,600
Yeah.
Also, tragic her first son.

272
00:16:10,600 –> 00:16:14,000
Christopher died within a few
weeks of birth in 1996.

273
00:16:14,000 –> 00:16:17,400
Yeah and his cause of death was
lower respiratory tract

274
00:16:17,500 –> 00:16:21,300
infection which that’s important
because again a doctor looked at

275
00:16:21,300 –> 00:16:26,100
this child and came up with a
cause of death based on medical

276
00:16:26,100 –> 00:16:32,900
science and free of Media storm
that eventually Springs up

277
00:16:32,900 –> 00:16:35,500
around Sally Clark a little over
a year later.

278
00:16:35,500 –> 00:16:39,200
Her second son, Harry is born.
Harry dies a few weeks later,

279
00:16:39,200 –> 00:16:43,500
under similar circumstances, and
about a month after that, Sally

280
00:16:43,500 –> 00:16:47,000
is taken in for questioning and
the police suggest that maybe

281
00:16:47,000 –> 00:16:49,700
she shook him to death.
Yeah.

282
00:16:49,900 –> 00:16:53,600
After that, a medical examiner,
for some reason goes back and

283
00:16:53,600 –> 00:16:57,400
changes Christopher’s cause of
death to Murder By smothering

284
00:16:58,100 –> 00:17:02,000
and lower respiratory.
Operatory tract, infection to

285
00:17:02,000 –> 00:17:05,000
Murder By smothering.
That’s the first thing that

286
00:17:05,000 –> 00:17:09,200
really started to make me want
to pull all of my hair out of my

287
00:17:09,200 –> 00:17:13,099
head.
Yeah, the conspiracy here is one

288
00:17:13,099 –> 00:17:16,500
that I would argue is kind of a
global conspiracy that a lot of

289
00:17:16,500 –> 00:17:20,000
people that participate in
without realizing it and it is

290
00:17:20,200 –> 00:17:24,900
the conspiracy that involves no
one wanting to ever admit.

291
00:17:24,900 –> 00:17:26,500
They’re wrong.
Sure.

292
00:17:26,700 –> 00:17:31,800
And you see a lot of that in
this Case there’s a whole lot

293
00:17:31,800 –> 00:17:35,700
especially with Kathleen phobic
who is still in prison there’s

294
00:17:35,700 –> 00:17:39,000
been will go into it in more
detail but there’s been a lot of

295
00:17:39,000 –> 00:17:43,800
evidence that should have
resulted in her exoneration and

296
00:17:43,800 –> 00:17:48,400
people responsible for looking
at it won’t look at it because

297
00:17:48,400 –> 00:17:52,000
they are so convinced they were
right the first time it’s

298
00:17:52,000 –> 00:17:57,100
maddening it’s just it’s so
sickening and infuriate.

299
00:17:57,100 –> 00:17:59,500
I just it’s so sad.
This is something.

300
00:17:59,500 –> 00:18:04,100
I I was really wrestling with
while watching it, but like, I

301
00:18:04,100 –> 00:18:09,800
really don’t see the use or
reason behind putting a mother

302
00:18:09,800 –> 00:18:13,700
who murdered her own child in
prison.

303
00:18:13,700 –> 00:18:17,600
I don’t understand Prosecuting
that as a criminal offense like

304
00:18:17,900 –> 00:18:22,200
I agree that it is an awful
thing but like that is a

305
00:18:22,400 –> 00:18:25,900
obviously obviously a Health and
Welfare issue.

306
00:18:26,200 –> 00:18:31,300
That is obviously that woman
having a You know, mental break

307
00:18:31,400 –> 00:18:36,200
and needing help like, yeah, how
is it prison going to resolve

308
00:18:36,200 –> 00:18:39,200
the situation?
How is dragging these women

309
00:18:39,400 –> 00:18:43,800
through the media circus of
having everybody?

310
00:18:43,800 –> 00:18:48,700
They know calling them a child
killer helping this situation.

311
00:18:48,700 –> 00:18:52,700
Like, obviously this goes for
almost every criminal justice

312
00:18:52,700 –> 00:18:56,500
matter, but I just limiting it
to parents killing their own

313
00:18:56,500 –> 00:18:58,800
children.
Like for one thing, I mean, you

314
00:18:58,800 –> 00:19:02,900
know, especially Tiny babies
like it’s just so wrong, it’s

315
00:19:02,900 –> 00:19:07,200
just so wrong headed.
And so, especially sad to watch

316
00:19:07,200 –> 00:19:10,200
like, I mean, I can see some
cases, like there’s just some

317
00:19:10,200 –> 00:19:12,500
people are just fucking
murderers and they will kill

318
00:19:12,500 –> 00:19:15,300
their kids but especially in
cases where things like

319
00:19:15,300 –> 00:19:18,200
postpartum depression or
involved like right.

320
00:19:18,200 –> 00:19:21,000
Yeah like that can’t be a prison
thing like that.

321
00:19:21,000 –> 00:19:24,200
No I agree.
It’s like I also like knows how

322
00:19:24,200 –> 00:19:28,700
devastating that is.
Now the science is in and well

323
00:19:29,000 –> 00:19:31,500
like There’s Hope A lot of
famous examples of.

324
00:19:31,500 –> 00:19:34,100
I mean, not a lot.
Fortunately, but there are

325
00:19:34,100 –> 00:19:36,900
famous examples of women who are
still in prison for killing

326
00:19:36,900 –> 00:19:40,200
their kids and it was clearly a
postpartum depression.

327
00:19:40,200 –> 00:19:43,300
Nothing.
Absolutely but also like even

328
00:19:43,300 –> 00:19:46,500
women who are like just doing it
for I guess.

329
00:19:46,500 –> 00:19:50,000
Cold-blooded murder.
That’s a mental health issue.

330
00:19:50,000 –> 00:19:51,800
Like?
That’s not a prison issue.

331
00:19:51,900 –> 00:19:54,100
They murdered a child.
Are they really a danger to

332
00:19:54,100 –> 00:19:57,200
Public Safety?
Well, I guess I’m thinking like,

333
00:19:57,400 –> 00:19:59,400
yes.
If you’re talking like an actual

334
00:19:59,600 –> 00:20:04,200
Child but like if there’s like a
mother and daughter team who

335
00:20:04,200 –> 00:20:07,400
enter into some fucking criminal
Enterprise when the kid is like

336
00:20:07,400 –> 00:20:10,800
interference, okay?
And then like officer in a

337
00:20:10,808 –> 00:20:16,100
business deal gone wrong.
I feel like that significantly

338
00:20:16,400 –> 00:20:19,000
different from what you might
think.

339
00:20:19,000 –> 00:20:21,700
Would someone says this mom
killed her child.

340
00:20:23,800 –> 00:20:26,600
Yeah.
They’ll like still I feel like

341
00:20:26,600 –> 00:20:29,500
business partner comes first at
a certain point.

342
00:20:29,900 –> 00:20:35,100
Yeah, but anyway, yeah, sorry
that’s that’s why abolitionist

343
00:20:35,100 –> 00:20:36,600
rant.
It was just something that I

344
00:20:36,600 –> 00:20:39,800
kept coming to over and over.
As I was watching this as all of

345
00:20:39,808 –> 00:20:43,200
these women are tortured, even
if they were guilty, they didn’t

346
00:20:43,200 –> 00:20:46,900
deserve anything that happens to
them just because I’m saying

347
00:20:46,900 –> 00:20:49,000
that they don’t deserve what
happened to them in.

348
00:20:49,000 –> 00:20:52,600
This doesn’t mean that if a
mother murdered her child that

349
00:20:52,800 –> 00:20:55,700
we as a community should not
deal with that.

350
00:20:55,700 –> 00:20:58,300
No, I get what you’re saying.
Like there’s a lot like just,

351
00:20:58,300 –> 00:21:00,900
you know, ways to deal.
With that, besides just throwing

352
00:21:00,900 –> 00:21:05,400
someone in prison, right so much
of what spoiler alert for the

353
00:21:05,400 –> 00:21:09,500
real-life events covered in this
documentary, but what happens to

354
00:21:09,500 –> 00:21:11,900
Sally Clark kill sir Flatout?
Yeah.

355
00:21:12,000 –> 00:21:16,100
Yeah.
No ifs ands or buts and that’s

356
00:21:16,300 –> 00:21:23,600
should not happen to anybody.
Going to prison, let alone a

357
00:21:23,608 –> 00:21:27,700
mother who has killed her child.
Even if she actually did kill

358
00:21:27,700 –> 00:21:32,200
her child, the other big ass To
this the media reaction to this

359
00:21:32,300 –> 00:21:37,600
is just as bad as anything else.
And it’s a thing I’ve brought up

360
00:21:37,600 –> 00:21:43,700
on other podcasts a whole bunch,
but that whole era of trying

361
00:21:43,700 –> 00:21:48,000
people in the media, which we
still do to some extent but not

362
00:21:48,000 –> 00:21:51,000
like it was in the 90s like this
was happening.

363
00:21:51,000 –> 00:21:54,600
Well us here to, this is why
I’ve said that we should cover

364
00:21:54,600 –> 00:21:58,400
the Johnny Depp Amber Heard
trial because that’s kind of the

365
00:21:58,400 –> 00:22:01,100
closest thing we have.
Have to something like this and

366
00:22:01,100 –> 00:22:06,700
it’s just as disgusting.
Yeah, it only serves the people

367
00:22:06,700 –> 00:22:11,300
in power, it only serves the
government and the judges and

368
00:22:11,300 –> 00:22:13,500
the prosecutors.
That’s the only people that this

369
00:22:13,500 –> 00:22:16,300
sort of behavior helps.
It does not serve our community.

370
00:22:16,500 –> 00:22:20,900
It doesn’t serve the people who
were hurt by the person who is

371
00:22:20,900 –> 00:22:24,400
charged like it’s just serving
the state.

372
00:22:24,500 –> 00:22:26,500
Anyway, that’s my abolitionist
shit.

373
00:22:26,500 –> 00:22:31,000
I’m sorry I had to go on it
because this was Really rankle

374
00:22:31,000 –> 00:22:35,300
in the Abolitionist, Indian.
So I had to like say some shit

375
00:22:35,400 –> 00:22:39,700
it’s a very frustrating
documentary who like I said cry

376
00:22:39,700 –> 00:22:41,200
twice.
Yeah.

377
00:22:41,200 –> 00:22:43,100
It’s it’s rough.
It’s rough.

378
00:22:44,800 –> 00:22:47,400
So I don’t think we mentioned,
but following a lengthy

379
00:22:47,400 –> 00:22:51,200
investigation.
Sally Clark is charged in 1998

380
00:22:51,200 –> 00:22:53,900
with murdering her two children
and then there’s Angela

381
00:22:53,900 –> 00:22:57,100
cannings.
Who this one seems especially

382
00:22:57,100 –> 00:23:01,100
egregious to me because these
kids die, like, it’s not close

383
00:23:01,100 –> 00:23:03,800
proximity.
Like it’s over the course of 10

384
00:23:03,800 –> 00:23:05,700
years.
I mean, that’s kind of close.

385
00:23:05,700 –> 00:23:10,300
But yeah, she had a child Gemma
and 1989 who died of Sids at 13

386
00:23:10,300 –> 00:23:13,300
weeks.
Jason born in 1991 died at 7

387
00:23:13,300 –> 00:23:17,000
weeks.
Born in 1999 died at 18 weeks,

388
00:23:17,400 –> 00:23:21,800
not long after Matthew dies, she
is arrested for murder because

389
00:23:21,800 –> 00:23:25,800
by this point, there’s all these
other trials, happening and

390
00:23:25,800 –> 00:23:29,100
other examples of it.
So the police are just thirsty

391
00:23:29,100 –> 00:23:33,200
to arrest Mom’s right killing
kids, and we’ll get into this

392
00:23:33,200 –> 00:23:38,500
later, but like, she’s the one
who is really only arrested

393
00:23:38,500 –> 00:23:45,800
specifically, on Meadows law,
like that is basically, The only

394
00:23:45,800 –> 00:23:48,900
cited evidence in her whole
case.

395
00:23:49,100 –> 00:23:52,700
Yeah, that’s the thing.
All these women have in common

396
00:23:52,900 –> 00:23:57,900
is the testimony of Roy Meadow
he by this their weaker.

397
00:23:57,900 –> 00:24:01,700
Yeah, by this point, he’s made a
name for himself and whenever

398
00:24:01,700 –> 00:24:05,400
there’s a case like this, he
shows up and he whips out

399
00:24:05,400 –> 00:24:09,300
Meadows law, which, if you came
up with the law, are you allowed

400
00:24:09,300 –> 00:24:11,500
to name the law?
I feel like someone else should

401
00:24:11,500 –> 00:24:13,600
happen.
Name it and decide if you are

402
00:24:13,600 –> 00:24:16,700
worthy of having Law named Eddie
but I mean that might have been

403
00:24:16,700 –> 00:24:18,900
what happened.
I like he because like there’s

404
00:24:18,900 –> 00:24:21,000
also I’m thinking of Godwin’s
law.

405
00:24:21,000 –> 00:24:23,200
Like yeah, some of the proposed
law.

406
00:24:23,200 –> 00:24:25,000
The more recent laws.
Yeah.

407
00:24:25,000 –> 00:24:28,800
Switch to more data from our
laws laws including Meadows law

408
00:24:28,800 –> 00:24:32,800
but oh yeah no Meadows law is
embarrassing Metals.

409
00:24:32,800 –> 00:24:36,100
Law should be a crime.
Like he should be in prison for

410
00:24:36,100 –> 00:24:38,000
this.
He should have died mean.

411
00:24:38,200 –> 00:24:40,500
He should be in space.
I’ve already said yeah.

412
00:24:41,300 –> 00:24:44,300
But like it’s just well, let’s
say what Meadows laws.

413
00:24:44,500 –> 00:24:49,900
First Meadows law, here it goes.
One sudden death is a tragedy to

414
00:24:50,000 –> 00:24:55,300
suspicious, three murder unless
proven otherwise.

415
00:24:55,400 –> 00:24:58,900
So if you’re a woman and three
of your kids die, you are guilty

416
00:24:58,900 –> 00:25:01,800
until you prove to the courts
that you are innocent because

417
00:25:01,800 –> 00:25:03,700
that’s how the justice system
works.

418
00:25:03,800 –> 00:25:04,900
Yeah.
Yeah.

419
00:25:04,900 –> 00:25:08,900
I I swear to cut its supposed to
go a little different than that.

420
00:25:08,900 –> 00:25:12,800
I think like the wording that I
heard was slightly different I

421
00:25:12,800 –> 00:25:14,400
can’t remember.
I can’t put my finger.

422
00:25:14,500 –> 00:25:18,800
GE on what’s wrong with that.
Maybe it was flipped.

423
00:25:18,800 –> 00:25:20,800
I don’t know, was it flipped?
Oh, yo.

424
00:25:20,800 –> 00:25:22,700
Give me the exact opposite,
right?

425
00:25:22,900 –> 00:25:25,600
That’s how it’s supposed to be.
I’ve heard that now, that I

426
00:25:25,600 –> 00:25:30,200
think about interesting, fuck
this, this makes even like a

427
00:25:30,200 –> 00:25:35,800
baby up dead.
Baby could tell you that this

428
00:25:35,800 –> 00:25:39,900
does not make a single fucking
lick of logical sense, let

429
00:25:39,900 –> 00:25:43,300
alone.
And when you get into his actual

430
00:25:43,300 –> 00:25:48,600
like, Jested reasoning for it.
It’s Preposterous.

431
00:25:48,600 –> 00:25:51,000
Yeah.
Like my first thought, when I

432
00:25:51,008 –> 00:25:54,300
heard this for some reason, was
a thing that actually comes up

433
00:25:54,300 –> 00:25:57,900
later was what if it’s an
environmental thing like yeah.

434
00:25:57,900 –> 00:26:00,300
What is Paris?
Some kind of contamination where

435
00:26:00,300 –> 00:26:03,800
they live?
That isn’t severe enough to kill

436
00:26:03,800 –> 00:26:06,900
an adult, but maybe it’s severe
enough to kill a little baby.

437
00:26:06,900 –> 00:26:11,300
Yeah, you know, it’s really hard
to keep a baby alive.

438
00:26:11,600 –> 00:26:14,300
It really is something we’ve
learned.

439
00:26:14,500 –> 00:26:17,900
You’re history.
Yeah, the most insane part.

440
00:26:17,900 –> 00:26:21,800
Is this, you’re right.
This is what gets Angela

441
00:26:21,800 –> 00:26:24,600
cannings convicted and
otherworldly.

442
00:26:24,600 –> 00:26:28,800
I did not hear a single other
piece of evidence to like for

443
00:26:28,800 –> 00:26:30,700
her.
And what’s crazy about it is by

444
00:26:30,700 –> 00:26:33,800
the time she’s convicted Meadows
law discredited.

445
00:26:33,800 –> 00:26:36,500
Yeah.
Like it had like someone else

446
00:26:36,600 –> 00:26:37,600
spoiler.
It’s Sally.

447
00:26:37,600 –> 00:26:42,900
Clark had already been tried.
Convicted and released because

448
00:26:42,900 –> 00:26:45,800
they realized Meadows law.
Law was nonsense and they

449
00:26:45,800 –> 00:26:48,900
fucking went forward with trying
Angela cannons, and she went to

450
00:26:48,900 –> 00:26:51,400
prison.
So Sally, Clark’s trial.

451
00:26:51,500 –> 00:26:53,400
Yes.
A pathologist who is also a

452
00:26:53,400 –> 00:26:55,000
piece of shit and should be in
prison.

453
00:26:55,200 –> 00:26:59,300
That’s all that’s a thing that
doesn’t come up enough in

454
00:26:59,300 –> 00:27:01,400
stories like these?
Yes.

455
00:27:02,000 –> 00:27:06,200
You want the wrongly convicted
person to be exonerated and

456
00:27:06,200 –> 00:27:07,800
released from prison.
Yeah.

457
00:27:08,000 –> 00:27:13,700
But how about charging those
people who clearly were

458
00:27:13,700 –> 00:27:16,700
derelict?
Of their Duty in trying this

459
00:27:16,700 –> 00:27:22,600
crime, send them to prison.
Well, here’s the thing, you know

460
00:27:22,600 –> 00:27:27,200
what a pro criminal justice
Advocate would say to that is?

461
00:27:27,400 –> 00:27:30,900
Well if you charge these people
on those grounds then you’ll

462
00:27:31,000 –> 00:27:34,200
charge almost everybody working
in criminal justice.

463
00:27:34,400 –> 00:27:36,000
Yeah.
And which is spin that shows

464
00:27:36,000 –> 00:27:39,100
that hey maybe this entire
system should be dismantled

465
00:27:39,200 –> 00:27:43,300
because if that’s the case how
did and what the fuck are we

466
00:27:43,300 –> 00:27:47,300
even doing?
Like come on yeah sounds like a

467
00:27:48,300 –> 00:27:51,100
date so this pathologist he’s a
real piece of shit.

468
00:27:51,100 –> 00:27:54,700
Don’t worst like the actual
worst.

469
00:27:54,700 –> 00:27:58,500
Yeah he testifies that Sally
Clark smothered one of her

470
00:27:58,500 –> 00:28:01,100
children and shook the other
one.

471
00:28:01,200 –> 00:28:04,200
This is where shaken baby
syndrome briefly comes up,

472
00:28:04,200 –> 00:28:06,700
right?
When I watched the syndrome,

473
00:28:06,800 –> 00:28:09,300
which is the documentary about
shaken baby syndrome.

474
00:28:09,400 –> 00:28:12,800
The first time, they show that
shaken baby demonstration, which

475
00:28:12,800 –> 00:28:15,400
is a thing I had seen.
A whole bunch of times

476
00:28:15,400 –> 00:28:17,300
throughout my life.
I’m sure people listening, you

477
00:28:17,308 –> 00:28:20,600
can picture it, the guy wakes up
a doll and Shakes the shit out

478
00:28:20,600 –> 00:28:23,900
of her.
And when I first saw in the

479
00:28:23,900 –> 00:28:26,400
context of that documentary, I
was like fuck.

480
00:28:26,400 –> 00:28:30,100
I’ve been lied to my whole life
because think about a baby

481
00:28:30,100 –> 00:28:33,500
stupid floppity neck.
Like they can’t control it.

482
00:28:33,500 –> 00:28:38,000
Like you have to cradle a baby’s
head when you have idiots?

483
00:28:38,300 –> 00:28:40,300
Yeah, it’s silly.
It’s silly.

484
00:28:40,300 –> 00:28:42,800
Like we have to do so much and
yeah.

485
00:28:42,800 –> 00:28:45,500
Now, think about that.
That neck if you’re shaking a

486
00:28:45,508 –> 00:28:48,500
baby like that you’re going to
snap their neck, like there

487
00:28:48,500 –> 00:28:54,200
would be severe damage to the
neck and that’s the thing, if

488
00:28:54,200 –> 00:28:58,400
you look into a lot of these
shaken baby cases, which one

489
00:28:58,400 –> 00:29:01,000
problem is, they’re very hard to
find because no one is charged

490
00:29:01,000 –> 00:29:03,100
with shaken baby.
They’re charged with child

491
00:29:03,100 –> 00:29:05,400
abuse.
So you have to go through every

492
00:29:05,400 –> 00:29:08,100
individual child abuse case to
find the ones that were shaken

493
00:29:08,100 –> 00:29:11,100
baby syndrome, right?
And in those cases, if there’s

494
00:29:11,100 –> 00:29:15,900
no neck injury that person’s
innocent, the And did not shake

495
00:29:15,900 –> 00:29:18,900
that baby.
You cannot shake a baby to that

496
00:29:18,900 –> 00:29:21,400
degree without injuring, their
neck.

497
00:29:21,500 –> 00:29:24,900
Also again you can’t hold a
baby.

498
00:29:25,300 –> 00:29:27,600
The wrong way.
Without injuring their neck.

499
00:29:27,600 –> 00:29:30,900
Much less a shake.
The ever-loving shit out of a

500
00:29:30,908 –> 00:29:33,000
baby in there nass.
Just fine.

501
00:29:33,200 –> 00:29:36,300
It doesn’t add up.
No, it doesn’t not at all.

502
00:29:36,800 –> 00:29:39,000
We did again.
We did an episode of pretty

503
00:29:39,000 –> 00:29:44,300
scary back in 2019 about this
documentary and we’re gonna post

504
00:29:44,400 –> 00:29:47,400
Post that episode, it was a
bonus episode at the time and

505
00:29:47,400 –> 00:29:50,700
we’re going to post it for free.
Now we get should be up by the

506
00:29:50,700 –> 00:29:53,600
time you’re listening to this
and less your way early on the

507
00:29:53,600 –> 00:29:56,200
train in which case, give it a
couple hours, but go listen to

508
00:29:56,208 –> 00:29:58,500
that.
It’s a very similar thing, it’s

509
00:29:58,600 –> 00:30:00,900
families.
Not just with sometimes it’s

510
00:30:00,900 –> 00:30:04,900
whole families are at least
husband and wife going to prison

511
00:30:04,900 –> 00:30:09,400
on bullshit charges and it’s
because with shaken baby

512
00:30:09,400 –> 00:30:13,200
syndrome this group, they’re the
same group that pushed the

513
00:30:13,208 –> 00:30:16,900
satanic Panic, the American
Academy of Pediatrics committee

514
00:30:16,900 –> 00:30:21,000
on child abuse and neglect,
sounds innocent enough, but they

515
00:30:21,000 –> 00:30:24,800
are actually evil.
They specialize in sending

516
00:30:24,800 –> 00:30:28,300
people to prison for crimes.
They did not commit and that is

517
00:30:28,700 –> 00:30:31,400
all they do.
They do not help children, they

518
00:30:31,400 –> 00:30:36,000
do not protect children, they
hurt children by separating them

519
00:30:36,000 –> 00:30:38,900
from their families for no good
reason.

520
00:30:38,900 –> 00:30:43,600
And like, guys, I’m sorry the
American criminal justice

521
00:30:43,600 –> 00:30:46,700
system.
Does not need your help sending

522
00:30:46,700 –> 00:30:48,900
people to prison for no reason.
Sure.

523
00:30:48,900 –> 00:30:51,700
That’s all it.
Sure doesn’t, but they were very

524
00:30:51,700 –> 00:30:55,800
helpful in this case, what this
group did in a lot of States, if

525
00:30:55,900 –> 00:31:01,500
a child comes in with three
specific symptoms which are

526
00:31:01,600 –> 00:31:07,100
subdural hematoma, cerebral
edema and retinal Hemorrhage.

527
00:31:07,100 –> 00:31:09,900
Hmm, in a lot of states still to
this day.

528
00:31:09,900 –> 00:31:13,600
If you see those three symptoms
in a child, this group has put

529
00:31:13,600 –> 00:31:18,200
it in People’s heads that only
shaken baby syndrome can cause

530
00:31:18,200 –> 00:31:22,000
those three symptoms and if you
see those three symptoms, you

531
00:31:22,000 –> 00:31:25,700
have to call the police because
that child is definitely being

532
00:31:25,700 –> 00:31:27,900
abused.
And now, think about what that

533
00:31:27,900 –> 00:31:31,100
does to the cop, who’s getting a
call from a doctor like this

534
00:31:31,100 –> 00:31:34,600
cops, not a doctor, but the
person calling him is a doctor

535
00:31:34,600 –> 00:31:37,900
saying, I’ve examined this
child, they are being abused.

536
00:31:37,900 –> 00:31:42,200
You need to talk to the parents.
That cop is not going to fucking

537
00:31:42,200 –> 00:31:47,000
give up until those parents.
Jess to a crime and yeah, I’m

538
00:31:47,000 –> 00:31:48,800
sorry.
People who are skeptical about

539
00:31:48,800 –> 00:31:52,600
it, but false, confessions
happen all the time.

540
00:31:54,200 –> 00:31:57,100
I just realized I realize that
you interact with True Crime

541
00:31:57,100 –> 00:31:59,900
fans more than I do.
And I was just briefly shocked

542
00:31:59,900 –> 00:32:03,700
that people, yeah, false,
confessions happen, all of the

543
00:32:03,700 –> 00:32:07,100
time.
The problem is those three

544
00:32:07,100 –> 00:32:11,400
symptoms in the documentary.
They show a list of 33 different

545
00:32:11,400 –> 00:32:14,800
conditions that can cause those
three symptoms and Sometimes

546
00:32:14,800 –> 00:32:17,800
it’s tough as innocent as
vitamin D deficiency.

547
00:32:17,900 –> 00:32:22,400
Yeah, and vitamin D deficiency.
Is an epidemic in this country.

548
00:32:22,500 –> 00:32:24,600
Absolutely.
And then the last thing on the

549
00:32:24,600 –> 00:32:27,200
list is other natural or
accidental causes.

550
00:32:27,200 –> 00:32:34,900
So it’s way more than 33 things,
but some of that it has become

551
00:32:34,900 –> 00:32:37,600
law, like doctors, get in
trouble.

552
00:32:37,600 –> 00:32:41,400
They can get in legal trouble
for not calling the police.

553
00:32:41,700 –> 00:32:44,600
When they see those three
symptoms, it’s not Nuts.

554
00:32:44,600 –> 00:32:48,000
It’s fucking yes, it is.
Yeah, in that documentary,

555
00:32:48,000 –> 00:32:52,300
there’s interrogation video of
the police interrogating, a

556
00:32:52,308 –> 00:32:56,000
woman who her daughter.
Almost certainly had vitamin D

557
00:32:56,200 –> 00:33:00,900
deficiency and they interrogate
her to the point that she

558
00:33:01,000 –> 00:33:05,000
confesses it’s not.
There’s video of both Sally

559
00:33:05,000 –> 00:33:09,100
Clark and Kathleen full, Biggs
interrogations in their

560
00:33:09,500 –> 00:33:14,200
heartbreaking, heartbreaking.
Yeah, so there’s no evidence.

561
00:33:14,400 –> 00:33:20,400
And Sally Clark killed her kids
no but Roy Meadow next rolls out

562
00:33:20,400 –> 00:33:28,000
this statistic 73 million to one
odds against a family of Clark’s

563
00:33:28,000 –> 00:33:30,600
status.
That they would suffer too.

564
00:33:30,600 –> 00:33:34,200
Sudden infant deaths, right?
Like Lottery typically?

565
00:33:34,300 –> 00:33:37,300
Yeah specifically, white
middle-class non-smoking

566
00:33:37,300 –> 00:33:38,700
household.
Yes.

567
00:33:38,800 –> 00:33:42,900
Is what they talk about a lot
and that is what gets Sally

568
00:33:42,900 –> 00:33:44,900
Clark.
Convicted.

569
00:33:44,900 –> 00:33:47,900
Yeah.
Basically she is sentenced to

570
00:33:47,900 –> 00:33:50,900
life in prison, which granted
she’s in the UK.

571
00:33:50,900 –> 00:33:52,800
That’s probably like 18 years or
something.

572
00:33:52,800 –> 00:33:57,600
But still this is a travesty and
I think it was more than that.

573
00:33:57,600 –> 00:34:00,800
I’m yeah I’m just making jokes
about know.

574
00:34:00,800 –> 00:34:02,500
I know.
Isn’t this actually better in

575
00:34:02,500 –> 00:34:05,600
other countries?
And you know, I mean slightly, I

576
00:34:05,608 –> 00:34:08,600
mean if you listen to this Sally
Clark talked about it, didn’t

577
00:34:08,600 –> 00:34:12,100
sound yikes.
I wish I show the prison Sally

578
00:34:12,100 –> 00:34:14,199
Clark was in and I was like,
holy shit.

579
00:34:14,300 –> 00:34:17,500
To implement, right?
I think prison in England in the

580
00:34:17,500 –> 00:34:20,400
80s and 90s was a little bit
more hardcore than it may be is

581
00:34:20,400 –> 00:34:23,400
now and even now it’s not great
I’m sure I don’t know what to be

582
00:34:23,400 –> 00:34:25,300
clear.
I’m not saying that, you know,

583
00:34:25,300 –> 00:34:29,699
it’s a lollipops and rainbows
but it’s no Nordic prison.

584
00:34:29,800 –> 00:34:34,199
So the UK media after Sally
Clark gets sentence promptly

585
00:34:34,300 –> 00:34:39,699
sets about just murdering her
character like the police go to

586
00:34:39,699 –> 00:34:42,100
the media and they’re like, hey
she was a little bit of an

587
00:34:42,100 –> 00:34:45,300
alcoholic.
Hmm.

588
00:34:45,500 –> 00:34:48,800
And they just it’s awful.
I mean like the the British

589
00:34:48,800 –> 00:34:51,600
tabloids are some of the sickest
in the world.

590
00:34:51,600 –> 00:34:55,500
Yes, most depraved to have ever
existed.

591
00:34:55,500 –> 00:35:00,000
If you’ve ever seen a fucking
Daily Mail or son headlined, and

592
00:35:00,000 –> 00:35:04,900
you can picture just like
fucking five inch letters, baby

593
00:35:04,900 –> 00:35:08,600
killer mother and no shit with a
picture of your face.

594
00:35:08,700 –> 00:35:13,100
Like imagine that and you know,
obviously that you did it, do it

595
00:35:13,100 –> 00:35:15,000
and you’ve had two babies.
Start.

596
00:35:15,100 –> 00:35:17,100
That’s just what I keep going to
over and over again.

597
00:35:17,100 –> 00:35:21,900
Is these women have literally
just had a baby die after a

598
00:35:21,900 –> 00:35:27,000
series of babies dying and like
that’s unimaginable pain

599
00:35:27,100 –> 00:35:30,200
unimaginable.
Yeah that’s why people like Roy

600
00:35:30,200 –> 00:35:33,500
Meadow there has to be a
mechanism for charging people.

601
00:35:33,600 –> 00:35:36,200
Yeah.
Like a doctor, those laws with

602
00:35:36,200 –> 00:35:39,500
the system like if a doctor was
that negligent, you could charge

603
00:35:39,500 –> 00:35:42,600
them with malpractice.
But what do you do to fucking

604
00:35:42,600 –> 00:35:45,700
Roy Meadow like, He is a doctor.
Yeah.

605
00:35:45,700 –> 00:35:52,400
If he was that negligent and
they kind of slapped him on the

606
00:35:52,400 –> 00:35:52,900
wrist.
Yeah.

607
00:35:52,900 –> 00:35:55,400
A little bit.
Yeah, they, yeah.

608
00:35:55,400 –> 00:35:57,300
They really gave him the old.
What?

609
00:35:57,300 –> 00:36:00,300
For it’s just devastating like
again.

610
00:36:00,500 –> 00:36:03,900
Like, it’s no surprise that even
if these women are released,

611
00:36:04,000 –> 00:36:08,000
they it’s impossible for you to
go back to living a normal life,

612
00:36:08,000 –> 00:36:11,900
at least in your home, like how
are you ever going to stay

613
00:36:11,900 –> 00:36:14,100
living in that neighborhood or
even in that?

614
00:36:14,300 –> 00:36:18,400
City, you know, like, I couldn’t
imagine doing that.

615
00:36:18,600 –> 00:36:20,400
I would have to move like a
country.

616
00:36:20,500 –> 00:36:24,500
Probably, yeah, yeah, you would
absolutely want to relocate

617
00:36:24,500 –> 00:36:28,200
somewhere.
So, next, Kathy, full, big is

618
00:36:28,500 –> 00:36:30,900
arrested and the way she’s
arrested.

619
00:36:31,400 –> 00:36:35,700
This is, this is the, this is
the big hitch in her case that I

620
00:36:35,707 –> 00:36:39,000
think is keeping her in prison.
Her husband, Craig finds her

621
00:36:39,000 –> 00:36:42,500
diary and like a good husband,
he reads it.

622
00:36:43,700 –> 00:36:47,000
And In it.
She says a few different things

623
00:36:47,000 –> 00:36:50,000
but one of the quotes is I know,
there’s nothing wrong with them,

624
00:36:50,300 –> 00:36:53,700
nothing out of the ordinary
anyway because it was me, not

625
00:36:53,700 –> 00:36:57,300
them.
She also wrote I Am, my father’s

626
00:36:57,300 –> 00:37:01,500
daughter and reminder, her
father, murdered her mother and

627
00:37:01,500 –> 00:37:04,500
so Craig.
Once again being a just a great

628
00:37:04,500 –> 00:37:10,200
husband and life partner takes
those Diaries to the police

629
00:37:10,400 –> 00:37:14,100
imagine having so little empathy
for the person.

630
00:37:14,300 –> 00:37:18,300
In that, you have married and
decided to raise children with

631
00:37:18,300 –> 00:37:20,400
to have.
So little understanding of them.

632
00:37:20,400 –> 00:37:23,200
I mean, he married her when he
was like 30 and she was 18.

633
00:37:23,300 –> 00:37:25,600
So, look, I’m not saying he was
like good guy.

634
00:37:25,900 –> 00:37:29,300
I’m definitely not saying that,
but like to read this stuff and

635
00:37:29,300 –> 00:37:33,400
they read several passages from
her diary that have been used

636
00:37:33,400 –> 00:37:35,200
against her throughout this
documentary.

637
00:37:35,200 –> 00:37:40,600
And everyone, if you are
remotely empathetic as a human

638
00:37:40,600 –> 00:37:44,100
being, they just read as a
person who is suffering.

639
00:37:44,200 –> 00:37:48,600
Whirring and is trying to
express the pain that she is

640
00:37:48,600 –> 00:37:51,600
feeling about what is happening
in her life.

641
00:37:51,800 –> 00:37:53,800
Yeah.
Like that first quote, because

642
00:37:53,800 –> 00:37:57,000
it was me, not them.
It seems like she’s just saying

643
00:37:57,000 –> 00:38:00,100
there’s something about her
that, right?

644
00:38:00,100 –> 00:38:03,300
She’s just not going to be
allowed to have kids.

645
00:38:03,400 –> 00:38:06,500
Absolutely.
It’s not proof that she fucking

646
00:38:06,500 –> 00:38:10,100
murdered her kids.
Like not mean it’s absolutely

647
00:38:10,500 –> 00:38:14,100
like Craig would be a piece of
shit, regardless Ford.

648
00:38:14,300 –> 00:38:17,700
Doing all of this.
But like then you know, the

649
00:38:17,700 –> 00:38:22,700
police you know, probably should
have not taken this as evidence

650
00:38:22,700 –> 00:38:27,300
because it’s clearly not.
Yeah, or at least have a doctor.

651
00:38:27,300 –> 00:38:31,600
Examine it first or something.
But Kya trous time.

652
00:38:31,600 –> 00:38:33,000
Yeah.
You know, like shit.

653
00:38:33,100 –> 00:38:38,500
I mean, look a diary I’m sure is
important evidence or whatever.

654
00:38:38,500 –> 00:38:41,700
Like again I don’t think this
should be treated as a criminal

655
00:38:41,700 –> 00:38:46,500
case to begin with but whatever.
But surely you have an expert,

656
00:38:46,500 –> 00:38:49,700
you have, you know, you seem to
love experts.

657
00:38:49,700 –> 00:38:52,400
So why is she have one?
Who’s like a psychiatrist?

658
00:38:52,500 –> 00:38:56,700
Yeah, but instead, they just
immediately arrest her just

659
00:38:56,700 –> 00:38:59,200
based on the diary because when
they questioned her about it,

660
00:38:59,200 –> 00:39:03,000
she explains what she was
getting at to the best of her

661
00:39:03,000 –> 00:39:06,700
ability because again, she’s
emotionally devastated In This

662
00:39:06,700 –> 00:39:09,100
Moment.
The other thing a fucking

663
00:39:09,100 –> 00:39:13,600
demeanor conviction.
I hate it and there’s the waist

664
00:39:13,700 –> 00:39:16,400
there’s a Commander a series on
Netflix called the confession

665
00:39:16,400 –> 00:39:20,500
tapes which is really good and
it’s about people who confess to

666
00:39:20,500 –> 00:39:22,900
crimes that they say they did
not commit.

667
00:39:22,900 –> 00:39:27,000
There’s one case where I think
motherfuckers did it but there’s

668
00:39:27,000 –> 00:39:31,800
also one where this guy and his
wife gets sent to prison, they

669
00:39:31,800 –> 00:39:33,900
had a car accident.
Basically and their car went

670
00:39:33,900 –> 00:39:37,100
into the river and they weren’t
able to get the kids out because

671
00:39:37,100 –> 00:39:40,100
they weren’t like, especially
strong swimmers like the kids

672
00:39:40,100 –> 00:39:43,300
drown and the parents lived in
this guy gets convicted

673
00:39:43,300 –> 00:39:45,400
basically.
Because he didn’t show enough

674
00:39:45,400 –> 00:39:48,300
emotion.
But also, he had been prescribed

675
00:39:48,300 –> 00:39:52,700
Valium because his kids had just
died and as someone who’s taken

676
00:39:52,700 –> 00:39:57,400
Valium that shit shuts you down.
That’s the whole point.

677
00:39:57,400 –> 00:40:00,700
Yes.
Like it really numbs them

678
00:40:00,700 –> 00:40:04,400
emotions and then to turn around
and say, well, he’s obviously a

679
00:40:04,400 –> 00:40:06,400
murderer because he’s not crying
enough.

680
00:40:06,500 –> 00:40:10,300
It’s right, really gets under my
skin and you see like time all

681
00:40:10,300 –> 00:40:11,100
the time.
Yeah.

682
00:40:11,300 –> 00:40:14,000
And then this tape, we see of
Kathy for Big Boy.

683
00:40:14,500 –> 00:40:18,700
She looks like a woman who just
lost her fourth infant.

684
00:40:18,700 –> 00:40:20,300
That’s what she seems like to
me.

685
00:40:20,500 –> 00:40:23,200
I don’t see a murderer there.
Nah, you know.

686
00:40:23,200 –> 00:40:25,600
I’m sorry.
And, of course, I’m biased or

687
00:40:25,600 –> 00:40:30,100
whatever but don’t act like the
fucking cops aren’t and they are

688
00:40:30,100 –> 00:40:34,000
just totally forcing the issue
and, you know, constantly

689
00:40:34,000 –> 00:40:36,100
returning to the question of
whether she did it.

690
00:40:36,100 –> 00:40:40,400
Like it’s just an even that
alone would be an unimaginable

691
00:40:40,400 –> 00:40:42,800
torture for a mother.
Yeah.

692
00:40:43,300 –> 00:40:46,700
So of course the Media sets
about destroying her character.

693
00:40:46,700 –> 00:40:49,900
Also before her trial is even
over.

694
00:40:49,900 –> 00:40:51,600
Thank god.
Well, at least Australia is a

695
00:40:51,607 –> 00:40:53,000
little nicer than Britain,
right?

696
00:40:53,000 –> 00:41:00,500
Surely oh no, unfortunately not.
We’re all part of the five eyes.

697
00:41:00,500 –> 00:41:03,000
We all do the same stuff.
John Sweeney.

698
00:41:04,400 –> 00:41:09,200
John Sweeney is the one.
I mean, not the only but he’s a

699
00:41:09,200 –> 00:41:12,100
good guy.
Like he’s one of the characters

700
00:41:12,100 –> 00:41:13,500
in this.
He’s an investigative

701
00:41:13,500 –> 00:41:18,000
journalist.
And he as these trials are

702
00:41:18,000 –> 00:41:22,300
happening, he recognizes that
these women are probably being

703
00:41:22,300 –> 00:41:28,400
railroaded and he starts looking
in specifically to Roy Meadows,

704
00:41:28,400 –> 00:41:34,300
one in 73 million statistic.
And it turns out that statistic

705
00:41:34,300 –> 00:41:37,700
comes from a guy named Peter
Fleming a professor of infant

706
00:41:37,700 –> 00:41:41,000
Health.
He sent Roy Meadow a report that

707
00:41:41,000 –> 00:41:43,800
he was the lead researcher on
and asked him to like, write the

708
00:41:43,800 –> 00:41:44,500
preface.
Office.

709
00:41:44,500 –> 00:41:49,500
And there was a quote about one
in 73 million in there.

710
00:41:49,600 –> 00:41:54,600
It was not the quote, Roy Meadow
claims it to be, but now he

711
00:41:54,600 –> 00:41:59,100
completely misinterprets this
and uses that misinterpretation

712
00:41:59,100 –> 00:42:01,900
to essentially launch a career,
sending innocent women to

713
00:42:01,900 –> 00:42:05,600
prison.
As Peter Fleming says, like one

714
00:42:05,600 –> 00:42:10,500
in 73 million, like 73 million
is the number of births that had

715
00:42:10,500 –> 00:42:15,000
happened in the United Kingdom,
in the last hundred, Years.

716
00:42:15,000 –> 00:42:23,100
Yeah, you know, it so it’s
obviously on its face wrong and

717
00:42:23,100 –> 00:42:28,600
Peter Fleming offers to go
testify on Sally, Clark’s behalf

718
00:42:28,600 –> 00:42:30,800
he’s like, hey, I’m also an
expert.

719
00:42:31,000 –> 00:42:34,500
I’m like, I’m the expert that
your expert got that quote from.

720
00:42:34,500 –> 00:42:37,300
So, how about you?
Let me come explain it and we

721
00:42:37,300 –> 00:42:40,200
can probably get Sally Clark out
of prison and they’re like, no,

722
00:42:40,200 –> 00:42:41,900
it’s fine.
We’ve, no thanks.

723
00:42:42,100 –> 00:42:44,500
Yeah, we’ve this is settled is
Business.

724
00:42:44,500 –> 00:42:48,200
Let’s just move on greatly.
I’m sorry, we’re not here to get

725
00:42:48,200 –> 00:42:51,500
people out of prison.
Yeah, I don’t know what you

726
00:42:51,500 –> 00:42:54,200
think we’re trying to do Peter
Fleming.

727
00:42:54,500 –> 00:42:58,500
He’s turned down when he offers
to yes, testify on Sally Clark’s

728
00:42:58,500 –> 00:43:03,800
behalf, but eventually public
opinion starts to turn on Roy

729
00:43:03,800 –> 00:43:07,800
Meadow because it’s even all of
the women were is in prison.

730
00:43:08,200 –> 00:43:11,000
Because even though, Peter
Fleming isn’t allowed to testify

731
00:43:11,000 –> 00:43:13,500
and Sally Clark’s behalf,
there’s nothing stopping him

732
00:43:13,500 –> 00:43:15,700
from working.
John Sweeney to get the

733
00:43:15,700 –> 00:43:22,600
information out about how flawed
Roy Meadows law is, and this

734
00:43:22,600 –> 00:43:25,200
here right here is where Roy
Meadow.

735
00:43:25,400 –> 00:43:28,700
There should be something you
can charge Roy Meadow with when

736
00:43:28,700 –> 00:43:32,900
he was challenged about the
research to support his one in

737
00:43:32,900 –> 00:43:36,800
73 million claim.
He said it was his own research

738
00:43:36,900 –> 00:43:40,900
and he shredded it fucking.
What there are women in your

739
00:43:40,900 –> 00:43:46,500
prison for life and you shoot.
Shredded the research to back up

740
00:43:46,500 –> 00:43:47,900
your claim.
I’m sorry.

741
00:43:47,900 –> 00:43:51,500
Roy Meadow should be in prison,
he’s got a face, he should go

742
00:43:51,500 –> 00:43:54,200
was faced with you.
Well space prison obviously

743
00:43:54,200 –> 00:43:57,300
which is just no space, no suit
this.

744
00:43:57,300 –> 00:44:00,000
What I’m saying like we stasis
motherfucker?

745
00:44:00,300 –> 00:44:02,600
Well I enjoy.
Does this launch of up just

746
00:44:02,600 –> 00:44:04,600
strap.
A fucking rocket to his back and

747
00:44:04,600 –> 00:44:07,200
let him go.
You need to get the fuck out of

748
00:44:07,200 –> 00:44:08,400
here.
Yeah.

749
00:44:08,400 –> 00:44:13,200
When I heard that part I was
floored like supposedly evil.

750
00:44:13,400 –> 00:44:18,500
Pass your Elf off as a man of
science and then say, I shredded

751
00:44:18,500 –> 00:44:20,800
the research.
Why were you afraid?

752
00:44:20,800 –> 00:44:24,200
The Nazis were going to find it
when they invaded the UK?

753
00:44:24,400 –> 00:44:26,100
What the fuck?
Are you talking about, you

754
00:44:26,100 –> 00:44:28,800
shred?
Yeah, Roy, I’m afraid that

755
00:44:28,800 –> 00:44:32,100
you’re going to have to hand
over all of your Shredder

756
00:44:33,000 –> 00:44:35,000
contents.
Like, I think, for the ago, view

757
00:44:35,000 –> 00:44:38,700
that to like the thing that
comes up, it comes up a few

758
00:44:38,700 –> 00:44:41,300
times.
It’s like people like people on

759
00:44:41,300 –> 00:44:43,900
the criminal justice side are
like, you know.

760
00:44:44,200 –> 00:44:48,200
Why he was just such a fun guy.
He was so lovable.

761
00:44:48,200 –> 00:44:52,300
He’s kind of like your fund.
Uncle someone says at one point

762
00:44:52,300 –> 00:44:54,700
and then you look at this
motherfucker, he looks like the

763
00:44:54,707 –> 00:44:57,700
most stiff-upper-lip, British
fuckwad.

764
00:44:57,700 –> 00:45:01,200
That’s ever existed.
He looks like a pain in the ass.

765
00:45:01,500 –> 00:45:04,500
Looks like your fun.
Uncle maybe some Brits fun

766
00:45:04,500 –> 00:45:07,000
knuckle but not Mike
red-blooded.

767
00:45:07,000 –> 00:45:13,500
American people on Uncle.
So shortly after the Sally Clark

768
00:45:13,600 –> 00:45:18,500
conviction, Angela cannings goes
on trial, and by this point it’s

769
00:45:18,500 –> 00:45:22,800
come out, that Meadows law is
mostly nonsense.

770
00:45:22,900 –> 00:45:27,100
Like Roy Meadow has been
publicly shamed at this point.

771
00:45:27,600 –> 00:45:31,700
On top of that, we mentioned
environmental factors earlier

772
00:45:31,800 –> 00:45:35,800
turns out in Angela cannings
Case for other families in her

773
00:45:35,800 –> 00:45:39,300
same Village basically suffered
this exact same fate.

774
00:45:39,700 –> 00:45:45,100
Okay hermit like is there like
the week we dismissed the

775
00:45:45,100 –> 00:45:48,200
possibility of environmental
causes and their listing like

776
00:45:48,400 –> 00:45:51,200
okay will she live next to a
train track that carried.

777
00:45:51,300 –> 00:45:55,900
Hazardous waste they live next
to a bunch of like a you know an

778
00:45:55,900 –> 00:45:58,800
old dump or some shit and
they’re like oh yeah and they

779
00:45:58,800 –> 00:46:02,500
also live next to an old
military weapons testing.

780
00:46:03,100 –> 00:46:06,200
Yeah.
Come on now.

781
00:46:09,700 –> 00:46:13,100
This could have had a factor.
Yeah, what’s crazy.

782
00:46:13,100 –> 00:46:16,800
Is according to Meadows law, all
of those mothers murdered their

783
00:46:16,800 –> 00:46:19,500
children like the yeah,
families.

784
00:46:19,500 –> 00:46:22,200
It would be that.
That would all be murdered in

785
00:46:22,200 –> 00:46:26,000
like the odds of that happening
like, one in 73 million at

786
00:46:26,000 –> 00:46:28,100
least.
Yeah, the only happens once

787
00:46:28,100 –> 00:46:32,200
every hundred years and the
problem is the defense isn’t

788
00:46:32,200 –> 00:46:37,100
able to prove any of the
environmental causes as leading

789
00:46:37,100 –> 00:46:40,300
to the death of her children.
Right?

790
00:46:40,300 –> 00:46:43,300
But also, the prosecution
doesn’t provide any evidence

791
00:46:43,300 –> 00:46:46,200
that she killed her kids.
No none at all.

792
00:46:46,300 –> 00:46:49,300
Especially in, Angela’s case,
which is why it was the one that

793
00:46:49,300 –> 00:46:52,900
really was the nail in the
coffin for Roy, at least, you

794
00:46:52,900 –> 00:46:55,200
know.
I mean, he then began practicing

795
00:46:55,200 –> 00:46:59,000
medicine again years later.
But like this was the one that

796
00:46:59,000 –> 00:47:03,800
really got most women off
because it’s only Meadows law.

797
00:47:03,900 –> 00:47:08,500
That is the cited reason and he
only cited reason because then

798
00:47:08,500 –> 00:47:11,000
they go in and there, I think.
It’s her where they go in and

799
00:47:11,000 –> 00:47:15,000
they’re like, yeah, like this
kid, he had like blood behind

800
00:47:15,000 –> 00:47:17,200
his eye, you know, he had like
something, you know, blood in

801
00:47:17,200 –> 00:47:19,200
his eyes signs of retinal
beating and then they’re like,

802
00:47:19,200 –> 00:47:22,100
oh no actually turns out that
happened after he died.

803
00:47:22,500 –> 00:47:25,100
Oh whoops.
Oh you’re already going to

804
00:47:25,100 –> 00:47:28,000
prison.
So we can’t stop you all sorry.

805
00:47:28,100 –> 00:47:30,800
Oh, no sorry, yeah.
Sorry what.

806
00:47:30,800 –> 00:47:33,300
Whoops, your life is destroyed
because it’s okay, you’ll get

807
00:47:33,300 –> 00:47:34,800
another one.
Sweetie.

808
00:47:35,100 –> 00:47:40,800
Yeah, believe in karma.
Speaking of the A good figure in

809
00:47:40,800 –> 00:47:42,500
this documentary, I mean, all
the mob.

810
00:47:42,500 –> 00:47:45,800
This like there’s just a couple
really big villains and it makes

811
00:47:45,800 –> 00:47:49,600
it seem like everyone in this is
villain, but Marilyn, Stowe, she

812
00:47:49,600 –> 00:47:52,400
is a family lawyer and she
fucking rules.

813
00:47:52,800 –> 00:47:57,500
She’s great she reaches out to
the Clark family and offers to

814
00:47:57,500 –> 00:48:00,600
help because she knows Sally.
Clark has been convicted based

815
00:48:00,600 –> 00:48:04,900
on Meadows law, basically and
wants to try and get her out of

816
00:48:04,900 –> 00:48:06,700
prison.
And this is the kind of shit I’m

817
00:48:06,700 –> 00:48:09,600
talking about when stuff like
this is a celebration.

818
00:48:09,700 –> 00:48:13,300
Asian of shitty police work.
She immediately finds out from a

819
00:48:13,300 –> 00:48:18,400
nurse at the hospital where the
second child Harry died, right?

820
00:48:18,400 –> 00:48:22,900
That the nurse was concerned.
There might have been a problem

821
00:48:22,900 –> 00:48:27,800
with the baby’s heart monitor
because it kept going off.

822
00:48:28,800 –> 00:48:32,400
And the lawyer asks the obvious
question, right?

823
00:48:32,400 –> 00:48:36,800
Was there may be something wrong
with the baby and yeah the heart

824
00:48:36,800 –> 00:48:44,400
monitor as you like.
Oh I think that is he this woman

825
00:48:44,400 –> 00:48:48,400
is like yeah good point.
How about you go?

826
00:48:48,400 –> 00:48:53,500
Talk to my superiors and she
sends Maryland Stowe to another

827
00:48:53,500 –> 00:48:57,900
Medical Center where the staff
there says.

828
00:48:57,900 –> 00:49:00,100
They are not talking to her
they’re like we yeah, they were

829
00:49:00,100 –> 00:49:02,200
killing me.
Her in the parking lot.

830
00:49:02,200 –> 00:49:04,100
Yeah.
They’re like, don’t even come in

831
00:49:04,200 –> 00:49:08,900
we’re not talking to you at all
and police call her and ask her.

832
00:49:08,900 –> 00:49:13,400
Why she’s Poking around.
Like, we already solved this

833
00:49:13,400 –> 00:49:15,900
case in it.
Why are you asking all these

834
00:49:15,900 –> 00:49:20,300
questions, the hospital calls
her and says, stop talking to

835
00:49:20,300 –> 00:49:23,800
our employees.
And she says, I am going to keep

836
00:49:23,800 –> 00:49:27,200
calling your employees until you
cooperate with me.

837
00:49:27,300 –> 00:49:29,000
Yeah.
And so they gave her all the

838
00:49:29,000 –> 00:49:32,400
documents they have in their
possession regarding baby

839
00:49:32,400 –> 00:49:34,100
Harry’s death.
Hmm.

840
00:49:34,100 –> 00:49:36,200
And they finding it’s right.
In the report.

841
00:49:36,200 –> 00:49:38,900
He died of meningitis.
He had a lethal amount of

842
00:49:38,900 –> 00:49:41,700
bacteria.
In his spinal fluid, AKA, he

843
00:49:41,700 –> 00:49:44,300
died of meningitis, Howard
Sally, Clark.

844
00:49:44,300 –> 00:49:47,600
Fucking give her kid meningitis.
That’s not how that works.

845
00:49:47,800 –> 00:49:52,500
No, not at all again.
It’s not even hard police work,

846
00:49:52,600 –> 00:49:55,700
it’s just there, it’s Basic
Police.

847
00:49:56,000 –> 00:49:59,000
It’s not even police work.
It’s like medical examiner.

848
00:49:59,000 –> 00:50:00,800
Work like me?
Yeah.

849
00:50:01,000 –> 00:50:03,400
How did no one look at these
files?

850
00:50:03,400 –> 00:50:06,500
Because that’s all it takes.
Like I’m that’s all it.

851
00:50:06,500 –> 00:50:09,300
Takes like Sally.
Clark went to prison for bunch

852
00:50:09,300 –> 00:50:10,500
of you.
It’s a travesty.

853
00:50:10,500 –> 00:50:13,700
But, yeah, once that happens,
like, they turn it over to an

854
00:50:13,700 –> 00:50:16,000
appeals court in the appeals
court is like, oh, yeah.

855
00:50:16,000 –> 00:50:17,700
Fuck yeah.
She shouldn’t be in prison

856
00:50:17,700 –> 00:50:21,100
anymore.
Whoops, and wait, nothing bad

857
00:50:21,100 –> 00:50:24,300
happened to her, though, during
this whole thing like she’s

858
00:50:24,300 –> 00:50:26,500
fine.
No, yeah.

859
00:50:26,500 –> 00:50:29,600
Okay good.
Yeah, do I even have in the

860
00:50:29,600 –> 00:50:32,100
notes?
What eventually happens to Sally

861
00:50:32,100 –> 00:50:33,400
Clark.
She dies.

862
00:50:33,400 –> 00:50:37,000
She does.
Yeah, she like kills, I mean,

863
00:50:37,000 –> 00:50:40,500
you know, she becomes an
alcoholic and Yeah, she’s lethal

864
00:50:40,500 –> 00:50:44,400
alcohol, poisoning drinks
herself to death in 2007 and

865
00:50:44,400 –> 00:50:47,700
it’s so it’s just so sad.
Yeah.

866
00:50:47,700 –> 00:50:52,800
And it’s obviously because of
this, like, absolutely this

867
00:50:52,800 –> 00:50:55,000
combined with like two children
dying.

868
00:50:55,200 –> 00:50:57,600
Yeah, the children dying would
have probably.

869
00:50:57,600 –> 00:51:00,300
Like, that’s going to be a nag,
a lot of people, drink

870
00:51:00,300 –> 00:51:03,400
themselves to death and on top
of that, you get charged with

871
00:51:03,400 –> 00:51:07,900
their murder and you get your
entire name dragged through the

872
00:51:07,900 –> 00:51:12,000
mud by every media Outlet.
It’s not just ruined her

873
00:51:12,000 –> 00:51:13,900
husband.
At least is not craic.

874
00:51:14,000 –> 00:51:15,700
Not as bad as Greg.
Yes.

875
00:51:15,800 –> 00:51:18,100
Like he is at least kite.
He get.

876
00:51:18,100 –> 00:51:21,200
He’s like, no.
I believe that you didn’t kill

877
00:51:21,200 –> 00:51:25,200
your our children.
Like yeah, I obviously trust you

878
00:51:25,600 –> 00:51:30,300
but fucking Craig in the midst
of all these worst, even after

879
00:51:30,400 –> 00:51:35,000
Sally, Clark is released can
fold next trial carries on even

880
00:51:35,000 –> 00:51:39,200
though again, she’s basically
arrested based on Meadows law,

881
00:51:39,200 –> 00:51:43,400
which It has been super duper
discredited by now and I feel

882
00:51:43,400 –> 00:51:47,200
like it’s those diary entries
that are, that’s what the issue.

883
00:51:47,300 –> 00:51:49,400
I mean, we’ll talk about but
that’s definitely what’s keeping

884
00:51:49,400 –> 00:51:52,700
her in prison.
Yeah, I saw a true-crime episode

885
00:51:52,700 –> 00:51:56,100
once about a guy who was
convicted of his wife’s murder

886
00:51:56,100 –> 00:52:00,000
in part because he downloaded, I
Used To Love Her by Guns and

887
00:52:00,000 –> 00:52:03,000
Roses shortly before she.
And here’s the thing, he did

888
00:52:03,100 –> 00:52:06,500
definitely kill her sure.
It’s just weird that that came

889
00:52:06,500 –> 00:52:10,500
up.
Yeah, it just doesn’t seem like

890
00:52:10,500 –> 00:52:14,300
that has anything to do with it.
I know other than he’s an ass

891
00:52:14,300 –> 00:52:17,300
like d just likes G&R and he’s
kind of a dick.

892
00:52:17,500 –> 00:52:21,100
Yeah, kind of he killed someone
but still but yeah, she gets

893
00:52:21,100 –> 00:52:26,100
super duper convicted because
even though there’s no actual

894
00:52:26,100 –> 00:52:30,700
physical signs of smothering,
she is convicted of murder.

895
00:52:30,700 –> 00:52:34,100
And the claims that she
smothered her children to death.

896
00:52:34,400 –> 00:52:38,100
There’s been doctors who have
given a cause of death.

897
00:52:38,100 –> 00:52:40,600
Yeah.
And Rather less they say she

898
00:52:41,000 –> 00:52:44,200
smothered or kids.
So on the bright side, John

899
00:52:44,200 –> 00:52:48,000
Sweeney the investigative
reporter we mentioned earlier he

900
00:52:48,000 –> 00:52:51,000
starts looking into Angela
cannings Case because she’s

901
00:52:51,000 –> 00:52:56,500
still in prison and he looks
into her family tree and what he

902
00:52:56,500 –> 00:53:01,700
finds is that this same thing
has been happening to women in

903
00:53:01,700 –> 00:53:05,200
her family, going back, like
three generations.

904
00:53:05,300 –> 00:53:08,700
Yeah which again they turn it
over to an appeal.

905
00:53:08,800 –> 00:53:13,100
As court and her conviction is
overturned because those stats

906
00:53:13,100 –> 00:53:15,400
certainly don’t support Meadows
law.

907
00:53:15,800 –> 00:53:17,400
That’s no idea.
I’m sure.

908
00:53:17,900 –> 00:53:21,000
Well, because Moses law, just
whole cloth dismisses.

909
00:53:21,000 –> 00:53:27,400
The very idea of there being a
genetic link to SIDS not to

910
00:53:27,400 –> 00:53:30,600
mention the fact that this is
something that statistically,

911
00:53:30,700 –> 00:53:33,900
Roy Meadow is not a
statistician.

912
00:53:33,900 –> 00:53:38,700
He is a physician.
He does not have any idea about

913
00:53:38,900 –> 00:53:44,600
Statistics and a lot of
statisticians were very critical

914
00:53:44,600 –> 00:53:47,600
of him, but they were like the
most important thing though is

915
00:53:47,600 –> 00:53:52,300
like I wanted to read this that
the occurrence of one caught

916
00:53:52,300 –> 00:53:54,800
death.
Makes it likely that the family

917
00:53:54,800 –> 00:53:58,100
in question has such conditions
in the probability of subsequent

918
00:53:58,100 –> 00:54:02,300
deaths is therefore greater than
the group average, which is

919
00:54:02,300 –> 00:54:06,800
something that Meadows law does
not take into account at all.

920
00:54:06,800 –> 00:54:12,300
It’s something like 1 in.
Hundred if you have, if you have

921
00:54:12,300 –> 00:54:15,100
a preconceived, you know,
precondition for it.

922
00:54:15,100 –> 00:54:19,100
So of course, these women are
having multiple that just makes

923
00:54:19,100 –> 00:54:24,200
that actually makes more sense.
I think, the reason it’s just

924
00:54:24,200 –> 00:54:28,300
labeled under this umbrella term
of Sids like we’ll talk in a

925
00:54:28,308 –> 00:54:32,900
minute about what it takes this
team of doctors.

926
00:54:33,000 –> 00:54:37,000
Like the work they have to do to
figure out how Kathleen full

927
00:54:37,000 –> 00:54:40,300
Biggs kids.
Actually I’d like it’s like it’s

928
00:54:40,300 –> 00:54:45,400
heavy science.
Like yes, a whole bunch of

929
00:54:45,400 –> 00:54:50,100
research and investigation that
your local coroner or medical

930
00:54:50,100 –> 00:54:52,200
examiner isn’t going to do your
local.

931
00:54:52,200 –> 00:54:54,300
Well, he’d lie isn’t going to
do.

932
00:54:54,400 –> 00:54:59,100
Well, it’s not just that but it
was even harder because this is

933
00:54:59,100 –> 00:55:03,700
happening years and years.
After the kids have died, like

934
00:55:03,800 –> 00:55:07,400
it would be actually slightly
easier for Corner who was

935
00:55:07,400 –> 00:55:11,300
motivated to actually try to
find the cause of death to find

936
00:55:11,300 –> 00:55:14,700
the actual cause of death.
And it’s the exact thing that

937
00:55:14,700 –> 00:55:18,000
people accuse conspiracy,
theorists of all the time is

938
00:55:18,400 –> 00:55:21,600
what you’re just like reaching
for an explanation for

939
00:55:21,600 –> 00:55:24,000
something.
They’re unexplainable and it’s

940
00:55:24,000 –> 00:55:26,000
like that’s what these fucking
cops are doing.

941
00:55:26,000 –> 00:55:28,300
That’s what these prosecutors
have to do.

942
00:55:28,300 –> 00:55:31,500
It doesn’t fast.
You sometimes tragedy strikes.

943
00:55:31,500 –> 00:55:35,300
A family.
Like yes that’s an author is

944
00:55:35,300 –> 00:55:36,400
with something like.
Yeah.

945
00:55:36,400 –> 00:55:38,700
And often with something like
this if tragedy.

946
00:55:38,800 –> 00:55:41,600
To family once it can often
happen again.

947
00:55:41,600 –> 00:55:48,100
But don’t say that 73 million to
one is the like it is the exact

948
00:55:48,100 –> 00:55:50,900
opposite.
In fact of what the actual truth

949
00:55:50,900 –> 00:55:55,400
is, it’s actually way more.
Like, it’s like closer to 21 in

950
00:55:55,400 –> 00:55:58,200
some cases.
Yeah, but don’t worry, Roy

951
00:55:58,200 –> 00:56:02,500
Meadow.
He gets his finally in 2005,

952
00:56:02,600 –> 00:56:06,600
he’s struck off the medical
register which I’m guessing

953
00:56:06,600 –> 00:56:08,400
means he lost his medical
license.

954
00:56:08,700 –> 00:56:11,800
That was my understanding.
Yeah, and I think that lasted

955
00:56:11,800 –> 00:56:16,700
about six months, something not
very long, it was very brief and

956
00:56:16,700 –> 00:56:20,400
then it was reinstated.
However, he is banned from

957
00:56:20,400 –> 00:56:24,400
giving testimony in court cases,
going forward, which that’s

958
00:56:24,400 –> 00:56:27,000
good.
Sure, but also arrest Roy.

959
00:56:27,000 –> 00:56:30,500
Roy Roy Meadow and Roy Moore, I
almost slipped up and said Roy.

960
00:56:30,500 –> 00:56:32,800
Yeah, yeah.
That’s where I’m or two or more

961
00:56:32,800 –> 00:56:33,500
of no.
Okay.

962
00:56:35,300 –> 00:56:38,600
Into the space, space space.
Yeah.

963
00:56:38,800 –> 00:56:42,300
Space space.
Both these motherfuckers like

964
00:56:42,300 –> 00:56:47,900
the worst at fuck Roy Meadows.
And yeah, it’s just so symbolic

965
00:56:47,900 –> 00:56:51,100
of the problems with criminal
justice systems in most

966
00:56:51,100 –> 00:56:54,300
countries.
Yeah, the pathologist in the

967
00:56:54,300 –> 00:56:57,500
Sally Clark case, that
motherfucker he was struggling

968
00:56:57,500 –> 00:57:01,000
with the medical register for
three years, which that’ll show

969
00:57:01,000 –> 00:57:02,600
him.
Absolutely.

970
00:57:02,600 –> 00:57:06,600
I mean, what the fuck.
I mean, it’s just he fucking

971
00:57:06,600 –> 00:57:11,200
change the document.
It like, he knowingly

972
00:57:11,200 –> 00:57:14,300
fabricated.
Yeah, his evidence to the court,

973
00:57:14,300 –> 00:57:18,000
people get arrested for that
shit all the time.

974
00:57:18,100 –> 00:57:21,000
It’s a crime.
It’s perjury is I mean, I don’t

975
00:57:21,000 –> 00:57:26,100
know how it works and jolly old
London but here in fucking

976
00:57:26,100 –> 00:57:29,800
America, that doesn’t ever
really get prosecuted unless

977
00:57:29,800 –> 00:57:32,900
you’re, you know, blacker poor.
Yeah, exactly.

978
00:57:32,900 –> 00:57:34,900
It would have gone the exact
same way here.

979
00:57:34,900 –> 00:57:36,200
Don’t worry about.
We just wouldn’t have been

980
00:57:36,200 –> 00:57:38,400
wearing wigs when we sent
everyone to prison.

981
00:57:38,400 –> 00:57:43,500
Yeah, That’s okay.
Look, I really like I don’t

982
00:57:43,500 –> 00:57:47,500
understand how you how you keep
doing the wig thing, guys.

983
00:57:47,600 –> 00:57:51,100
It looks how am I ever supposed
to take you seriously as a

984
00:57:51,107 –> 00:57:52,200
lawyer?
I’m sorry.

985
00:57:52,200 –> 00:57:56,000
I know it’s tradition or
whatever but Traditions sucks.

986
00:57:56,100 –> 00:57:59,400
A lot of street urchin addition.
Stop happening because they

987
00:57:59,400 –> 00:58:01,800
weren’t good, because they’re
silly.

988
00:58:02,100 –> 00:58:04,500
And that’s one of them.
It’s just that I bet those

989
00:58:04,800 –> 00:58:10,000
either they fucking stink.
They were not Or the taxpayer

990
00:58:10,000 –> 00:58:15,300
money that goes into keeping
them pristine is just con.

991
00:58:15,300 –> 00:58:21,100
Spit would probably bring down
the royal family if the UK knew

992
00:58:21,400 –> 00:58:24,300
what their spend and keeping
those fucking wigs clean.

993
00:58:24,400 –> 00:58:27,100
Well like you, they always look
a little.

994
00:58:27,600 –> 00:58:29,100
Yeah.
Like they always look a little

995
00:58:29,100 –> 00:58:32,200
ratty.
Now that looks like they stole

996
00:58:32,200 –> 00:58:33,800
them from the grave of the
person.

997
00:58:33,800 –> 00:58:38,300
They’re imitating.
These are like I just don’t

998
00:58:38,300 –> 00:58:42,000
think that the people who are
practicing law and trying to

999
00:58:42,000 –> 00:58:45,400
decide whether someone is going
to lose their life potentially.

1000
00:58:45,400 –> 00:58:48,600
Well, not in London but you know
whatever like you have their

1001
00:58:48,600 –> 00:58:51,200
lives ruined.
Like I don’t think that they

1002
00:58:51,200 –> 00:58:54,800
should be defended by someone
who looks like a historical

1003
00:58:54,800 –> 00:58:58,500
reenactor, you know, like they
should look professional.

1004
00:58:58,600 –> 00:59:01,700
Yeah, so here’s the thing.
Weigh enough xenophobia?

1005
00:59:01,900 –> 00:59:05,500
Yeah, exactly, here’s the thing.
Free Kathleen folding.

1006
00:59:05,700 –> 00:59:08,600
Oh my God.
God obviously, still in prison.

1007
00:59:08,600 –> 00:59:11,300
Speaking of Another Hero in this
story.

1008
00:59:11,600 –> 00:59:16,200
Mm, you know, geneticist dr.
Kerala Vino a casa.

1009
00:59:16,300 –> 00:59:21,300
She fucking rules.
She’s great and love her.

1010
00:59:21,400 –> 00:59:25,200
She does, like, you’ll have to
watch the documentary and let

1011
00:59:25,200 –> 00:59:28,200
her explain it.
Me and Olivia certainly aren’t

1012
00:59:28,200 –> 00:59:31,200
going to put all this science
into words in a good guy.

1013
00:59:31,400 –> 00:59:36,300
I’m not an immuno geneticist, so
I don’t feel qualified she does.

1014
00:59:36,400 –> 00:59:42,900
Is a whole bunch of research
into this family and she finds

1015
00:59:42,900 –> 00:59:47,900
that the two girls had genetic
mutations that predispose them

1016
00:59:47,900 –> 00:59:52,000
to sudden Unexpected death.
As did Kathleen, like they all

1017
00:59:52,000 –> 00:59:56,200
had it, the two boys both
carried potentially lethal,

1018
00:59:56,200 –> 01:00:02,100
genetic mutations linked to
early onset, lethal, epilepsy in

1019
01:00:02,100 –> 01:00:04,600
mice.
And one of the deaths was

1020
01:00:04,600 –> 01:00:05,800
epilepsy.
Yeah.

1021
01:00:06,400 –> 01:00:11,200
So on March 4th 2021, a petition
signed by more than 100

1022
01:00:11,200 –> 01:00:16,000
scientists including dr.
Veena Wasa was published by the

1023
01:00:16,000 –> 01:00:19,600
Australian Academy of Science
calling for full big to be

1024
01:00:19,600 –> 01:00:26,300
pardoned on March 24th 2021
Kathleen’s appeal was once again

1025
01:00:26,400 –> 01:00:31,500
rejected the court did not take
the scientific evidence into

1026
01:00:31,500 –> 01:00:34,200
account and not because it
wasn’t available.

1027
01:00:34,300 –> 01:00:38,500
The judge was just like I’ve
seen Everything I need to see in

1028
01:00:38,500 –> 01:00:40,700
this.
Yes, she did it.

1029
01:00:40,700 –> 01:00:45,900
So that’s that’s especially
frustrating because so many

1030
01:00:45,900 –> 01:00:50,400
times you see, people will go.
We got we got all the physical

1031
01:00:50,400 –> 01:00:53,600
evidence, we got all the DNA,
but then you’ll get that same

1032
01:00:53,600 –> 01:00:57,000
cop a few years later going.
They thought they were going to

1033
01:00:57,008 –> 01:01:00,500
come in here and fool everybody
with their science and it’s like

1034
01:01:00,600 –> 01:01:02,100
you don’t fool people with
science.

1035
01:01:02,100 –> 01:01:06,300
Like you just write you just
read the science here.

1036
01:01:06,300 –> 01:01:09,200
And it should lead to you
letting this woman out of prison

1037
01:01:09,200 –> 01:01:12,600
despite how depressed she was in
those diary entries.

1038
01:01:12,600 –> 01:01:16,300
Yeah but the diary entries
especially in this case are

1039
01:01:16,300 –> 01:01:18,800
almost all they take into
account.

1040
01:01:18,900 –> 01:01:21,100
Yeah.
And they’re playing audio in the

1041
01:01:21,100 –> 01:01:25,900
courtroom and at one point this
the the prosecutor mentions that

1042
01:01:25,900 –> 01:01:29,700
she said, she lost it with one
of the kids and he was like,

1043
01:01:29,700 –> 01:01:31,200
what was that the first time you
lost it with?

1044
01:01:31,200 –> 01:01:33,000
You’ve lost it with the other
kids, right?

1045
01:01:33,200 –> 01:01:36,100
And that he keeps saying you
lost it, you lost it.

1046
01:01:36,100 –> 01:01:39,900
And Turns out, if you keep
reading that diary entry, what

1047
01:01:39,900 –> 01:01:45,000
lost it means is her kid was
crying and would not stop

1048
01:01:45,000 –> 01:01:47,500
crying.
So she took the kid out of the

1049
01:01:47,500 –> 01:01:49,700
high chair and put them on the
floor.

1050
01:01:49,700 –> 01:01:54,300
So he crawl around.
And she went in her room to cry.

1051
01:01:54,300 –> 01:02:00,100
Yeah, that’s what fucking lost.
It means and she still gets

1052
01:02:00,100 –> 01:02:02,300
fucking convicted for a second
time.

1053
01:02:02,500 –> 01:02:04,600
Nuts.
Absolutely nuts.

1054
01:02:04,800 –> 01:02:09,200
Fucking Rest Roy Meadow.
It’s so sad.

1055
01:02:09,200 –> 01:02:11,400
And like, both of the things
that made me cry related to

1056
01:02:11,408 –> 01:02:14,500
Kathy.
Phobic one was her friend, who

1057
01:02:14,500 –> 01:02:20,700
was the babysitter, who for her
fourth, child naturally, she

1058
01:02:20,900 –> 01:02:25,600
required that anybody who would
babysit her child was CPR

1059
01:02:25,600 –> 01:02:28,700
certified.
And so she did he basically had

1060
01:02:28,700 –> 01:02:33,300
one friend who would babysit for
her and her like her name is

1061
01:02:33,300 –> 01:02:37,700
Karen and she talks about an
incident where the He stopped

1062
01:02:37,700 –> 01:02:41,700
breathing and she’s so terrified
by that.

1063
01:02:41,700 –> 01:02:45,700
She bursts into tears like a and
it just is so heart wrenching

1064
01:02:46,100 –> 01:02:50,900
and also seems like that would
be evidence that maybe.

1065
01:02:51,300 –> 01:02:57,300
Yeah, kill or kids but you know
that’s and then like at at the

1066
01:02:57,300 –> 01:03:00,100
end when they’re talking about
trying, you know this is like

1067
01:03:00,200 –> 01:03:03,800
last year and they’re talking to
one of her friends about getting

1068
01:03:03,800 –> 01:03:08,500
her out of prison and she’s like
Yeah, no, she’s gonna come stay

1069
01:03:08,500 –> 01:03:13,300
with me and like, and she leads
her around the little house that

1070
01:03:13,300 –> 01:03:15,900
she made for her on like in her
place.

1071
01:03:16,000 –> 01:03:20,000
And like, she’s like, yeah, you
know, she’s just been in a place

1072
01:03:20,000 –> 01:03:22,400
or it’s had to be serious every
day.

1073
01:03:22,400 –> 01:03:25,500
And so I just thought I’d make
this like, really, I’m gonna

1074
01:03:25,500 –> 01:03:27,300
start crying.
Yeah.

1075
01:03:27,900 –> 01:03:30,600
Like this, she’s just like, I
just thought I’d make this like

1076
01:03:30,600 –> 01:03:34,400
fun, you know, have it be like
funny and, you know, so and just

1077
01:03:34,400 –> 01:03:37,400
like letter round and there’s
like, Paintings of animals

1078
01:03:37,400 –> 01:03:41,200
because she likes it and it’s
just like these people know that

1079
01:03:41,200 –> 01:03:44,100
she is not a murderer, everybody
knows.

1080
01:03:44,200 –> 01:03:48,400
And the courts are still adamant
about keeping this woman in

1081
01:03:48,400 –> 01:03:51,300
prison.
It’s an unconscionable torture.

1082
01:03:51,400 –> 01:03:55,800
I can’t even imagine.
Yeah, and it’s I mean, I hate to

1083
01:03:55,800 –> 01:03:59,600
say it like I hate to be all
American exceptionalism about it

1084
01:03:59,600 –> 01:04:01,900
but this is the kind of thing
you expect to happen in the

1085
01:04:01,900 –> 01:04:06,100
United States.
Like the fact that it’s all not

1086
01:04:06,300 –> 01:04:08,400
Happening here is kind of
jarring.

1087
01:04:08,400 –> 01:04:11,800
It’s like well what is the
what’s the shitty us remake of

1088
01:04:11,800 –> 01:04:14,000
this?
Because I’m sure it has happened

1089
01:04:14,300 –> 01:04:17,400
by now.
Yeah, there’s no way that this

1090
01:04:17,400 –> 01:04:20,200
mean that doesn’t Henry.
I mean this travesty of justice

1091
01:04:20,200 –> 01:04:24,100
as Pro no I’m saying there’s no
way this hasn’t happened like

1092
01:04:24,100 –> 01:04:27,400
this basically exact thing, we
just don’t know about it.

1093
01:04:27,400 –> 01:04:29,900
That’s the shaking.
A lot of it is too shaken baby

1094
01:04:29,900 –> 01:04:32,300
syndrome.
Sure stuff for sure and again

1095
01:04:32,300 –> 01:04:35,200
but like listen to that episode
or watch that documentary do

1096
01:04:35,200 –> 01:04:37,700
both.
I mean The it all of what it

1097
01:04:37,700 –> 01:04:41,800
proves is that it’s not just an
American sickness, it’s not just

1098
01:04:41,800 –> 01:04:44,000
a problem with our Criminal
Justice System.

1099
01:04:44,100 –> 01:04:49,800
It’s a problem with how so many
modern cultures, think about the

1100
01:04:49,800 –> 01:04:53,000
actual like, Concept of criminal
justice.

1101
01:04:53,400 –> 01:04:55,700
Yeah.
And women and women, I mean, of

1102
01:04:55,700 –> 01:04:59,900
course, there’s obviously a
whole Roy Meadow is in absolute

1103
01:04:59,900 –> 01:05:03,100
misogynist.
Yes, this is a full-on

1104
01:05:03,900 –> 01:05:08,700
woman-hating asshole.
And that just informs every

1105
01:05:08,700 –> 01:05:12,500
aspect of his professional life.
And the fact that he is

1106
01:05:12,500 –> 01:05:15,700
unscathed by this other than
basically.

1107
01:05:15,700 –> 01:05:19,200
I think anybody who is paying
attention in Britain during this

1108
01:05:19,200 –> 01:05:23,600
time knows that he is a quack,
but materially he’s still able

1109
01:05:23,600 –> 01:05:26,900
to practice medicine at the very
that should be the absolute

1110
01:05:26,900 –> 01:05:30,100
least of his punishments.
Is the fact that he should no

1111
01:05:30,100 –> 01:05:31,900
longer be allowed to practice
medicine.

1112
01:05:32,200 –> 01:05:35,000
Yeah, this guy should be working
at a petrol station.

1113
01:05:35,200 –> 01:05:37,300
Yeah, exactly.
I mean Did I feel bad for the

1114
01:05:37,300 –> 01:05:40,700
petrol station attendants?
Yeah, this piece of shit still

1115
01:05:40,700 –> 01:05:43,000
alive, of course.
Yeah yeah.

1116
01:05:43,000 –> 01:05:46,000
He’ll never die.
No probably not.

1117
01:05:46,300 –> 01:05:49,300
There’s even another couple Ian
in Angela gay.

1118
01:05:49,900 –> 01:05:53,300
Yeah, apparently sent them to
prison also.

1119
01:05:53,300 –> 01:05:55,500
Oh yeah.
His Wikipedia page has a ride.

1120
01:05:55,500 –> 01:05:57,400
If you want to.
If anybody wants to go take a

1121
01:05:57,408 –> 01:05:59,600
look.
It’s I mean he’s a monster.

1122
01:05:59,600 –> 01:06:03,100
He’s one of these classic
British medical monsters.

1123
01:06:03,700 –> 01:06:07,800
Yeah, he accused them of killing
Their kid with via

1124
01:06:07,800 –> 01:06:11,100
non-accidental salt poisoning oh
turned out.

1125
01:06:11,100 –> 01:06:13,100
It turned out.
He just had a form of diabetes

1126
01:06:13,100 –> 01:06:18,700
that caused an elevated.
Salt level, a rest Roy, Meadow

1127
01:06:19,200 –> 01:06:23,400
into space.
No, sit just on a racket.

1128
01:06:23,800 –> 01:06:26,500
So I think that’s our episode.
Sorry, this wasn’t.

1129
01:06:26,500 –> 01:06:28,000
I mean, are any of these
episodes?

1130
01:06:28,000 –> 01:06:31,500
Like really feel good episodes?
I don’t like, I these Pharisee

1131
01:06:31,500 –> 01:06:34,500
podcast we’re not.
I think this was as fun as an

1132
01:06:34,500 –> 01:06:37,900
episode about a Dozen babies
dying.

1133
01:06:37,900 –> 01:06:39,800
Can’t be.
Yeah.

1134
01:06:40,100 –> 01:06:42,800
On the one hand, I would
normally say, go watch this

1135
01:06:42,800 –> 01:06:44,900
documentary.
I mean, it’s good.

1136
01:06:45,000 –> 01:06:47,000
It’s very good.
It’s very well done.

1137
01:06:47,000 –> 01:06:50,700
It’s very important information
but also it’s a lot.

1138
01:06:51,000 –> 01:06:52,500
It’s tough.
I mean it is.

1139
01:06:52,500 –> 01:06:54,300
You’ll probably cry.
Yeah.

1140
01:06:54,300 –> 01:06:57,300
You should like you should cry
watching this.

1141
01:06:57,700 –> 01:07:02,400
Yeah.
But um until then I’ll see.

1142
01:07:02,400 –> 01:07:04,800
You can just listen to this
episode and dude, listen, Jack

1143
01:07:04,800 –> 01:07:08,000
pretty scary episode also.
So about absolute syndrome

1144
01:07:08,000 –> 01:07:10,100
because that is also a travesty
of Justice.

1145
01:07:10,400 –> 01:07:11,700
I don’t know what we’re going to
cover next.

1146
01:07:11,700 –> 01:07:17,400
It’ll be be a bonus episode but
I don’t know it’ll be about,

1147
01:07:17,400 –> 01:07:18,200
right?
Yeah.

1148
01:07:18,300 –> 01:07:21,600
When I need Jesse Ventura to
make more television, what I

1149
01:07:21,607 –> 01:07:25,700
really, really need?
I just I just watched predator

1150
01:07:25,800 –> 01:07:28,700
and it was so nice to see him.
It really was.

1151
01:07:28,700 –> 01:07:32,400
I really don’t be invisible.
It felt like seeing an old

1152
01:07:32,400 –> 01:07:35,100
friend now.
Like I never had that much of an

1153
01:07:35,100 –> 01:07:39,500
attachment in the Beyond.
He’s a funny voice to do but I

1154
01:07:39,500 –> 01:07:42,000
doubt just love the guy I really
do.

1155
01:07:42,000 –> 01:07:44,000
Yeah yeah.
And I was wrong about him being

1156
01:07:44,000 –> 01:07:45,900
the Trump supporter.
He actually called for Trump to

1157
01:07:45,900 –> 01:07:48,700
be arrested so that’s hell yeah.
Hell yeah.

1158
01:07:48,700 –> 01:07:51,400
Jesse walk.
We can still smoke weed.

1159
01:07:51,400 –> 01:07:54,700
Yeah, let’s roll it up.
Do not freak.

1160
01:07:54,700 –> 01:07:57,100
Oliver Stone’s kid.
I don’t trust him.

1161
01:07:57,300 –> 01:08:00,500
No, please.
No, I didn’t say I went fucking

1162
01:08:00,500 –> 01:08:04,200
smoke with.
Sean Stone right?

1163
01:08:04,200 –> 01:08:07,600
Sean Stone.
And And what’s his kid’s name?

1164
01:08:07,600 –> 01:08:09,900
Hi, real shit.
You’re not at Tyrell.

1165
01:08:09,900 –> 01:08:12,300
Yes, Tyrell hard to forget that
name.

1166
01:08:13,800 –> 01:08:19,300
So, we’ll be back with a bonus
episode next week, you could, if

1167
01:08:19,300 –> 01:08:23,300
you haven’t yet, you could go
listen to going back.

1168
01:08:23,300 –> 01:08:25,700
Our lost re-watch pot.
Yeah.

1169
01:08:25,800 –> 01:08:29,899
If you are a conspiracy to show
subscriber, you’re getting those

1170
01:08:29,899 –> 01:08:33,000
right in the same feed.
Before they go public, you’re

1171
01:08:33,000 –> 01:08:37,100
welcome and bonus episode.
So don’t We never did nothing

1172
01:08:37,100 –> 01:08:39,000
for you.
And that podcast.

1173
01:08:39,200 –> 01:08:41,600
Fun is hell.
Oh yeah, it’s a blast.

1174
01:08:41,600 –> 01:08:45,000
I’m having a great time man.
If if this network could just be

1175
01:08:45,000 –> 01:08:49,399
re-watch podcast, that’s get me
on that road.

1176
01:08:49,399 –> 01:08:52,800
That’s absolutely want.
So check that out.

1177
01:08:52,800 –> 01:08:55,399
And yeah, I’m doing a live
podcast.

1178
01:08:55,399 –> 01:09:01,200
Alive episode of unpopular
opinion, August 28th at 4 p.m.

1179
01:09:01,200 –> 01:09:05,899
in New York City at the New York
City, right?

1180
01:09:05,899 –> 01:09:08,000
Where Are all the good salsa is
made.

1181
01:09:08,600 –> 01:09:10,300
Here’s the thing, I bet there’s
really good.

1182
01:09:10,300 –> 01:09:13,399
Salsa there is City, there is
there’s good barbecue in New

1183
01:09:13,407 –> 01:09:16,800
York to know, which would also
make people go New York City.

1184
01:09:17,600 –> 01:09:22,700
Yeah.
So come to that in New York City

1185
01:09:22,899 –> 01:09:26,899
August 28th for p.m. me, Alex
Schmidt, slice Berg, slim, who’s

1186
01:09:26,899 –> 01:09:29,700
been on this podcast before.
And my comedian friend, Calise

1187
01:09:29,700 –> 01:09:32,399
Hawkins.
We are going to be doing a live

1188
01:09:32,399 –> 01:09:36,500
unpopular opinion episode.
So, come to that on pop star, L

1189
01:09:36,500 –> 01:09:39,700
slash NYC to get tickets and
that’s all for me.

1190
01:09:39,800 –> 01:09:45,000
Do you have anything to plug?
I’ll plug me going to Community

1191
01:09:45,000 –> 01:09:48,800
College.
That’s what I’m doing.

1192
01:09:49,700 –> 01:09:53,700
Hell yeah um I think that’s it.
Let’s get out of here.

1193
01:09:53,700 –> 01:09:56,800
Olivia say Good-Bye Baby Goodbye
everybody.

1194
01:09:56,800 –> 01:10:02,900
We love you.
People of Earth.