Adam and Olivia discuss CIA activity in Guyana during the 60s and 70s and the “other Jonestown” that was happening in the country at the time
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Which of the transparent you the
phone number.
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Hey, everybody, Welcome to
conspiracy the show.
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I’m Adam, Todd Brown, and I’m
Olivia hide are and where your
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goddamn hosts.
I’m gonna edit that long silence
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out but there’s there’s a little
delay, but I catch people off
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guard.
I don’t, I don’t point, I don’t
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point, I don’t throw it to
anyone.
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I just say my name and expect
Olivia to say her name and here
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we Ego.
It was, it was an element of
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suspense, yeah, yeah, it’s good.
How’s it going?
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Oh, things are great.
You know, things are great.
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I would say all told, can’t
complain back on my meds very
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ill, very nice.
And that is my biggest news for
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the last few weeks.
Yeah.
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Feels like, we’re all just kind
of in that holding pattern
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waiting.
Yeah, for enough people to be
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vaccinated.
So we Go out and watch movies in
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theaters again.
Whoo.
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I mean, I’d, I’m looking forward
to it.
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I do miss movie theaters.
I don’t know why I said it that
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way, but no, absolutely.
We are were hit rounding, third
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heading for home.
That’s a sports reference
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audience in terms of our deep
deep dive in to Jonestown.
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And here’s the thing, I’m
starting to realize this could
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be like 25 to 30 episodes long,
if I lie, Get it, get that way.
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Just a whole separate Jonestown
podcast.
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I mean it’s already kind of been
like the past seven or eight
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episodes of all been Jonestown
related.
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Yeah.
And we got one more after this
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and I’m telling you it could it
could go on forever.
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Jonestown is such a wide-ranging
thing that just I don’t know
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there’s so much shit that spins
off of it.
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And yeah you just kind of end up
like At some point, there’s
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almost more interesting stuff as
crazy and weird.
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As Jonestown is like, one of the
things I’m finding is that this
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this idea that Jonestown was a
CIA medical experiment.
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That’s a mainstream Theory.
It’s just been lost to history.
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Yeah that was like the narrative
at the time but it’s kind of
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been forgotten.
Yeah like right after it
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happened we were fresh off of
the church committee which is
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the panel that At investigated
MKUltra and that happened in 74.
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So Jonestown happens for years
later and obviously people are
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like, hey is this that again,
was this you and they’re like
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yeah why don’t you ask the
people who survived?
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It’s like you’re all set in 70s,
70s, of course, also a high
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point, I think of General
distrust in government agencies
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and the the intelligence
apparatus General.
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So honestly, I might have been
the healthiest point in our
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relationship with the government
as America really people like
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yeah, we were doing the things
we needed to do as a people.
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It’s just that the government
one basically, right?
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Essentially.
Yeah.
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Seems to be the case.
So let’s just kind of retrace
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our steps here in the Jonestown
story.
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Our first episode was just about
like a general overview of the
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official version of events, I
recorded that with fizzled
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Dasani and from there we started
where the book starts which is
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Operation Paperclip.
You’re familiar with Operation
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Paperclip, right?
Of course.
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Of course it was.
Yeah.
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The Nazi you know the America
program to bring Nazi scientists
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over.
Of course Operation Paperclip
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ends up spawning one, the CIA,
which half of the CIA when it
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launched was former SS agents.
So it’s very A comforting, I’m
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sure none of them are up those
numbers up since then yeah, I’m
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sure they all renounce their
Nazi ways immediately upon
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setting foot on American soil.
And it also spawned MKUltra,
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which is what a lot of people
suspect spawned Jonestown.
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So we covered Operation
Paperclip, we covered the latent
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family.
The Layton’s are a family that
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seem to have some Nazi
connections and they definitely
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were Were the chief financers
and architects of Jonestown, and
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they also just happen to have a
lot of American intelligence
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connections.
Like, the mom worked for the
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CIA, the dad worked for the CIA,
the dad was on the fucking
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Manhattan Project, right?
And of course, the Professor
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Layton, you know, solve the
mystery of the Diabolical Box
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and a lot of other Mysteries
throughout history.
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Yeah, I believe one was on a
train, what’s mr.
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Layton was a video game
character.
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Sorry there’s a whole series of
like puzzle games about
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Professor Layton called the
professor like it’s just called
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Professor Layton man diabolical
box or 25 to 30 people,
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listening to this are just
losing their shit right now.
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It’s a popular game.
I would say, I’m gonna look it
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up.
It might be named after this
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guy.
Maybe.
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Maybe they were you loved, you
loved puzzles where you slide
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tiles around the screen to make
sure the path was unobstructed.
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Those games were just sort of
thing funding.
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All kinds of horrible covert Ops
and South America.
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That’d be amazing if Japanese
developer level five games was
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involved in this CIA plot.
And it be amazing if the CIA
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wasn’t funding that shit selling
crack.
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Yeah, so anyway, anyway.
So that was the third official
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Jonestown episode was the latent
Family episode.
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And today, we’re talking about
the cia’s involvement in the
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overthrow of Guyana and their
activities in Guyana in the 70s
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in general and the other
Jonestown that was happening at
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the exact same time.
But before we get into that,
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Let’s talk about this book a
little bit.
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Not sure if I trust this book
anymore Olivia.
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Yeah, don’t get me wrong.
I very much believe the CIA was
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involved in Jonestown still
sure.
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Yeah, seems clear.
It seems pretty clear.
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Yeah, I’ve it, I’m just not sure
about all the details.
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In this particular book, I
mentioned on an earlier episode,
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the guy who wrote This Book Is
essentially a ghost like he
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showed up, he wrote This Book.
Lookin Like 88 or 89 and we
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talked to the publisher who
didn’t want to appear on the
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show.
Guy named herb Richardson and he
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said the guy showed up wrote the
book and then they just
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completely lost contact in the
guy fell off the map after that.
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And then the guy who wrote it,
Michael Myers from Halloween and
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Canada.
He and yeah, an Austin Powers of
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course.
Right.
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He pops up again, and I’m guy,
2014, and writes another book.
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About how the CIA started AIDS
in Africa and then disappears
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again.
Like he has no website.
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He has no social media.
Nothing.
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And I feel like this, that’s, I
mean, I get it.
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Like, if you’re actually
exposing for real CIA shit,
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like, I guess you would really
want to be secretive about it,
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but also, this is a thing, like,
I’ve also mentioned earlier, San
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Diego, State University has a
whole website dedicated to the
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Idea, that Jonestown was a CIA
thing and they updated every
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year.
It was most recently updated
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October 2020, if they feel
comfortable, keeping the flame
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alive for this, like why would
why would this guy need to be
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that secretive about it?
Yeah, it’s always kind of a red
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flag when the publisher goes,
yeah, we published his book and
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then we have no idea what
happened after that.
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We you know what happens to his,
I mean, does he not get?
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Checks does he not get anything
like he just totally vanished
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and then pops up and publishes
another book.
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I actually I have a theory.
I have a theory on what’s
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happening, okay?
With this book, The Publisher,
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they submitted it to Edwin
Mellen, press their books, are
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intended to be sold to college
libraries and because of that
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they go through like an actual
academic review process, this is
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all according to the publisher,
this book.
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Ever went through that process
and he says that’s why they
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didn’t sell a bunch you can
still buy it on their website
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and without looking at it I
can’t confirm the exact number
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but it’s somewhere around four
or five hundred dollars like
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textbooks often are and Jesus so
they didn’t sell a lot of copies
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of this.
What I know shit.
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Yeah what I suspect might have
been happening is maybe someone
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wrote this book with a lot of
weird.
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Factual errors in it because I
did catch a thing in the late
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and family episode.
Where this book says, the
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parents and that family stayed
behind in Italy to work on the
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Nazi rat lines for a couple
years before they came to United
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States.
But then the year they come to
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the United States is like two
years before those Nazi rat
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lines, which were the routes
they use to get Nazis into
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Argentina and shit like that.
It was like two years before
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those even started.
So where were they were they
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there or were they I hear and
even those ones that start,
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like, two years later.
We’re in Spain.
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They weren’t in Italy.
So, what I think might have
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happened here is I think someone
was hoping this would go through
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that academic review process and
get rejected.
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Because then you’d have that’s
almost as definitive of a
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debunking.
As you can get is if they send
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it through an actual fucking
text book review process, and
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they come out the other end and
go.
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No, this is full of shit that’s
wrong.
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Good night, Eunice forever point
to that, and be like, yeah, see
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we didn’t do it.
Sure.
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But it’s but it’s interesting
that they if that was the plan
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that they didn’t anticipate that
it might not get approved, you
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know that it might not go
through that process.
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That seems like something that
like a CIA investigator, might
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like uncover as a possibility.
Yeah, I mean, I don’t know.
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There’s two possibilities are
endless.
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I just yeah.
I really wish I could find the
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guy that wrote this book, and
for sure else asked why he chose
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Michael Myers as a fake name.
Like if you’re good at a shoe
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that’s Michael Myers.
As your fake game, at least make
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it the same spelling, so then
you’re impossible to Google but
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no, this is Mei ERS whatever.
And no it’s not the guy at UC
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Davis.
Relax, internet sloot’s.
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But is it the guy who founded
the midwestern Walmart style?
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Superstore Meyer?
Oh, that I don’t.
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I’ve never been to a Meyer.
I used to.
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That was my first job.
Oh wow.
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For me.
Yes.
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Working out of my ER Steak and
Shake was my first job.
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Oh, classic Drive the first job.
I work.
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Oh, every weekend 5 p.m. to 3
a.m. which I don’t think was
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legal given that I was like 16
at the time.
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Yeah.
Ooh.
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Now, yeah, I was faking his
wake.
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It was rough, but I fucking love
a steak burger.
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So, yeah, I’m kind of concerned
that leaning on this guy’s Book
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as the and I haven’t been
leaning just on this book as the
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only source.
I usually when I dig into a book
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like this, I tried at least
confirm the shit they’re talking
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about.
But like a lot of times they’re
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talking about books that are
also impossible to find but you
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can still, if you do the leg
work you can you can find some
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stuff.
But one thing we know that the
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government does is they will, if
someone is kinda onto something,
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they’ll sometimes send someone
out to give that person more
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details and be like, yes, you
Are onto something.
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Here’s more information about it
and then that’ll all be fake and
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then that person will publish it
and they’ll go see that person’s
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a liar and right we this is come
up a lot.
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Yeah as a thing and I could see
this book kind of being one of
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those things where it’s about a
thing that is true, which is the
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Seattle because the CIA was
involved in Jonestown.
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There’s no fucking way like once
we start getting into what else
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00:13:13,900 –> 00:13:16,600
was going on in Guyana at the
time there is right.
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00:13:16,800 –> 00:13:20,500
I literally no way the CIA
wasn’t involved in this in some
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00:13:20,500 –> 00:13:21,700
way, and it.
Yeah.
217
00:13:21,900 –> 00:13:24,100
It’s it.
You’re not saying and you’re not
218
00:13:24,100 –> 00:13:28,200
specifying any direct like
actual actions, or whatever.
219
00:13:28,200 –> 00:13:31,300
It’s just like, there’s no
fucking way that they weren’t
220
00:13:31,300 –> 00:13:34,500
involved.
Like at the very least.
221
00:13:34,600 –> 00:13:37,400
Yeah.
Or even just knew like they
222
00:13:37,400 –> 00:13:39,700
definitely knew right like we
have.
223
00:13:39,700 –> 00:13:42,800
Oh yeah, that’s nice.
What be concrete proof.
224
00:13:42,900 –> 00:13:47,900
And like Jim Jones was a big
public Here, before he went to
225
00:13:47,900 –> 00:13:52,000
Guyana, like yeah, it was until
people started defecting from
226
00:13:52,000 –> 00:13:54,700
that group and telling the Press
what was happened in there.
227
00:13:54,800 –> 00:14:00,800
People really viewed him as this
Progressive guy, who had the
228
00:14:00,800 –> 00:14:03,000
best interests of black people
in mind.
229
00:14:03,000 –> 00:14:06,200
And then once that all started
falling apart, that’s when he
230
00:14:06,200 –> 00:14:09,700
hightailed it to Guyana.
But right, everyone in the
231
00:14:09,708 –> 00:14:13,600
United States knew who he was
like he was a media figure.
232
00:14:13,600 –> 00:14:16,400
So yeah, that’s why it was such
a big story in sand.
233
00:14:16,700 –> 00:14:18,700
One way.
Like or one reason why it was
234
00:14:18,700 –> 00:14:22,300
such a huge story at the time.
You kind of have to figure that
235
00:14:22,300 –> 00:14:26,400
either way the CIA would know
about Jonestown because if it
236
00:14:26,400 –> 00:14:32,100
really was this experiment to
set up this socialist Utopia in
237
00:14:32,200 –> 00:14:34,500
our hemisphere are part of the
world.
238
00:14:34,600 –> 00:14:37,300
Well, you got, you just look at
your CIA history and, you know,
239
00:14:37,300 –> 00:14:38,700
they’re not going to let that
happen.
240
00:14:38,900 –> 00:14:41,800
Like of course, they are.
Absolutely not.
241
00:14:41,800 –> 00:14:45,500
We don’t let it happen now.
Like look at Venezuela since
242
00:14:45,500 –> 00:14:47,500
they elected Hugo.
Chavez.
243
00:14:47,700 –> 00:14:49,300
Yep.
We have been trying to put a
244
00:14:49,300 –> 00:14:54,100
halt to that ever since so our
favorite pastime it really is
245
00:14:54,100 –> 00:14:54,900
good.
In baseball.
246
00:14:55,100 –> 00:14:57,200
Yeah.
Fighting communism with the help
247
00:14:57,200 –> 00:14:58,300
of Nazis.
Yeah.
248
00:14:58,500 –> 00:15:02,000
And so like either way the CIA
was going to know about
249
00:15:02,000 –> 00:15:05,100
Jonestown at the very least, but
right, they more than new, we’ll
250
00:15:05,100 –> 00:15:08,600
get into it.
But this book some of the things
251
00:15:08,600 –> 00:15:12,400
that he brings up.
What makes me nervous is this
252
00:15:12,400 –> 00:15:15,400
Theory, really is pretty well
documented and it’s been covered
253
00:15:15,400 –> 00:15:17,700
by a lot of people.
It’s been Been suggested by a
254
00:15:17,708 –> 00:15:19,700
lot of people.
But there’s just stuff in this
255
00:15:19,700 –> 00:15:22,700
book that doesn’t come up
anywhere else like Jim Jones
256
00:15:22,700 –> 00:15:26,300
being a key figure in the Bay of
Pigs operation, right?
257
00:15:26,400 –> 00:15:30,600
But at the same time, he did go
to Cuba in 1960 after the Cuban
258
00:15:30,600 –> 00:15:32,800
Revolution.
So it’s like, sure.
259
00:15:33,000 –> 00:15:35,800
I don’t know who’s to know,
which is sketch.
260
00:15:35,800 –> 00:15:39,500
That’s, that’s sketch.
It’s us as the kids say it is,
261
00:15:39,800 –> 00:15:45,500
it is highly sauce that he goes
to Cuba about a year before Bay
262
00:15:45,500 –> 00:15:47,400
of Pigs happens.
You’re too.
263
00:15:47,500 –> 00:15:52,200
And you know I don’t know if
people know this but in 1960
264
00:15:52,200 –> 00:15:58,900
going to Cuba as an American not
like you know super cool.
265
00:15:58,900 –> 00:16:01,700
Not not loved yeah you can’t
just go.
266
00:16:01,800 –> 00:16:05,400
That’s why when Dennis Rodman
and vice went to North Korea.
267
00:16:05,400 –> 00:16:08,900
I was like, oh Vice because
that’s what the government
268
00:16:08,900 –> 00:16:10,000
calls.
Having fun.
269
00:16:10,200 –> 00:16:12,300
That’s Vice there.
Have one of the government.
270
00:16:12,300 –> 00:16:13,900
I get why we’re going to North
Korea.
271
00:16:13,900 –> 00:16:16,900
That’s the CIA.
And I didn’t know I went To a
272
00:16:16,900 –> 00:16:20,600
CIA egg back house party.
That’s pretty crazy.
273
00:16:20,600 –> 00:16:25,400
I wrote an article about Prince
for the CIA and it was about how
274
00:16:25,408 –> 00:16:29,300
the movie Purple Rain sucks.
So I got paid to so division is
275
00:16:29,300 –> 00:16:30,400
what I got.
Wow, paid.
276
00:16:30,400 –> 00:16:34,400
Wow, I am a Kaos agent.
So, yeah, I don’t know.
277
00:16:34,400 –> 00:16:37,200
It’s weird that he was there.
I mean the Bay of Pigs.
278
00:16:37,200 –> 00:16:41,800
Operation did involve us sending
people into, like, recruit
279
00:16:41,800 –> 00:16:45,500
people to come out and get
training to go back and invade
280
00:16:45,500 –> 00:16:48,400
Cuba, right?
And It was kind of Jim Jones’s
281
00:16:48,400 –> 00:16:52,200
bag was.
Yeah, rallying people up to do
282
00:16:52,200 –> 00:16:54,700
things.
I just, we were, mostly sending
283
00:16:54,700 –> 00:16:58,700
Cubans Cuban Americans to the
Bay of Pigs, though, right?
284
00:16:58,700 –> 00:17:01,000
Like a lot of that at to recruit
people?
285
00:17:01,000 –> 00:17:03,900
Yeah, I don’t know, I don’t
know, I don’t know.
286
00:17:03,900 –> 00:17:06,599
That whole thing is that’s a
whole separate disaster.
287
00:17:07,000 –> 00:17:08,700
Yeah.
The Bay of Pigs.
288
00:17:08,900 –> 00:17:13,200
Either way the CIA was involved
in Jonestown like you I don’t
289
00:17:13,200 –> 00:17:16,400
need Jim Jones to be a CIA
agent, right?
290
00:17:16,400 –> 00:17:18,400
For This Theory, Gilles de
Lille.
291
00:17:18,400 –> 00:17:23,700
Yeah, and I think the biggest
proof that this was a CIA
292
00:17:23,700 –> 00:17:27,800
involved thing, is where it
happened, which was Guyana.
293
00:17:28,000 –> 00:17:33,200
You have to take into account,
how involved the CIA was in
294
00:17:33,300 –> 00:17:37,200
Guyana at the time, like
everything that happened in that
295
00:17:37,200 –> 00:17:41,900
country, once they tried to
elect a communist.
296
00:17:42,000 –> 00:17:45,600
Everything that happens in that
country is basically the result
297
00:17:45,600 –> 00:17:50,900
of CIA.
Action even JFK was just so
298
00:17:50,900 –> 00:17:54,100
enthusiastic about toppling.
Yeah, Guyana.
299
00:17:54,200 –> 00:17:58,800
It starts in 62 when JFK is
still in office and this guy
300
00:17:58,800 –> 00:18:03,400
named, cheddi jagan who is
running for office in Guyana.
301
00:18:03,600 –> 00:18:07,700
In the elections are going to
happen in 1964 he comes to meet
302
00:18:07,700 –> 00:18:12,300
with Kennedy and his like look
II guess that you know I’m a
303
00:18:12,300 –> 00:18:15,400
communist or whatever but I
don’t have any plans of teaming
304
00:18:15,400 –> 00:18:18,900
up with Russia.
Shh and Kennedy was like cool.
305
00:18:18,900 –> 00:18:21,500
You do you and then as soon as
the guy left, he was like
306
00:18:21,500 –> 00:18:24,300
fucking take that guy out.
I don’t like this.
307
00:18:24,700 –> 00:18:27,000
I never want to see that man
again.
308
00:18:27,100 –> 00:18:31,600
Well he’s more like I never want
to see that man again oh the
309
00:18:31,608 –> 00:18:33,900
cia’s like all right, but we’re
going to kill you anyway in a
310
00:18:33,908 –> 00:18:40,300
few years and like this isn’t
that JFK signed off on, this
311
00:18:40,300 –> 00:18:45,900
isn’t speculation or rumor.
It is documented will link to an
312
00:18:45,900 –> 00:18:51,500
article where Can read all the
details that article is on a, on
313
00:18:51,500 –> 00:18:54,800
a government-run NSA, archive
website.
314
00:18:54,800 –> 00:18:57,800
It doesn’t get more definitive
than the government telling on
315
00:18:57,800 –> 00:19:01,200
themselves and that’s basically
what that article is.
316
00:19:01,200 –> 00:19:04,800
And this the oh that we
overthrew this government.
317
00:19:04,800 –> 00:19:07,900
It’s so well known that.
It became a scandal again under
318
00:19:07,900 –> 00:19:13,400
the Clinton Administration like
everyone knows the CIA installed
319
00:19:13,400 –> 00:19:19,900
their chosen leader in Anna and
yeah, that guy’s name was Forbes
320
00:19:19,900 –> 00:19:24,600
Burnham, which come on.
What a name that the it really.
321
00:19:24,600 –> 00:19:29,100
It’s really an incredible name.
It’s just not what?
322
00:19:29,100 –> 00:19:32,100
You don’t think of a Forbes.
Burnham is being a dictator.
323
00:19:32,300 –> 00:19:37,100
You think of a Forbes Burnham is
being more of a rich.
324
00:19:37,100 –> 00:19:41,700
Like you know kind of a oil
Baron maybe whore someone who
325
00:19:41,700 –> 00:19:45,900
comes from generation of wealth
and l.a. comic is Rich parents
326
00:19:45,900 –> 00:19:48,700
something like that.
Exact exactly.
327
00:19:49,400 –> 00:19:55,800
So to give you an idea of how
well known on how well
328
00:19:55,800 –> 00:20:00,200
documented the cia’s activities
and Guyana are, this is a quote
329
00:20:00,200 –> 00:20:02,600
from the New York Times from the
mid-90s.
330
00:20:02,800 –> 00:20:06,600
When the US for some reason,
refused to declassify documents
331
00:20:06,600 –> 00:20:09,300
relating to the country.
Here’s the quote still
332
00:20:09,300 –> 00:20:11,900
classified.
Documents depict an unusual
333
00:20:11,900 –> 00:20:16,300
detail a direct order from the
president to unseat dr.
334
00:20:16,300 –> 00:20:19,300
Joe John say government
officials familiar with the
335
00:20:19,300 –> 00:20:22,000
secret papers though.
Many presidents have ordered the
336
00:20:22,000 –> 00:20:24,000
CIA to undermine foreign
leaders.
337
00:20:24,300 –> 00:20:27,600
They say the jig on papers are a
Smoking Gun.
338
00:20:27,900 –> 00:20:31,900
A clear written record without
veiled words or plausible
339
00:20:31,900 –> 00:20:36,400
denials of a president’s command
to depose a prime minister.
340
00:20:36,500 –> 00:20:40,300
And like all I’ve ever known
about the CIA in Kennedy is that
341
00:20:40,300 –> 00:20:43,600
they were kind of at odds, so I
can just imagine if you’re in
342
00:20:43,600 –> 00:20:46,500
the CIA and Kennedy’s like no,
you can do that.
343
00:20:46,700 –> 00:20:49,900
Going to be like, okay, let’s
have fun.
344
00:20:50,100 –> 00:20:53,300
Really?
Okay, great, you do anything,
345
00:20:53,600 –> 00:20:55,500
anything we want?
Yeah man.
346
00:20:55,800 –> 00:20:58,600
And here I thought you were just
some Catholic, you know,
347
00:20:58,600 –> 00:21:00,800
papists.
Yes.
348
00:21:00,800 –> 00:21:03,800
You’re a good guy.
It’s some ways good in air
349
00:21:03,800 –> 00:21:05,700
quotes.
Yeah, exactly.
350
00:21:05,800 –> 00:21:12,200
And as soon as he signs off on
this, we start doing some crazy
351
00:21:12,200 –> 00:21:15,900
shit in Guyana.
Well, once we get Forbes
352
00:21:15,900 –> 00:21:20,700
Burnham, In office because we
basically what the CIA did is
353
00:21:20,700 –> 00:21:26,400
they went to labor unions and
basically had labor unions form
354
00:21:26,400 –> 00:21:29,500
the opposition against cheddi
jagan.
355
00:21:29,700 –> 00:21:33,000
And then like at one point they
start a fire that consumes a
356
00:21:33,008 –> 00:21:36,300
bunch of the city and like they
were really going to the fucking
357
00:21:36,300 –> 00:21:39,700
Matt to get this guy out of.
Yeah and once they get Forbes
358
00:21:39,700 –> 00:21:44,400
Burnham elected, they start
doing all kinds of crazy shit.
359
00:21:44,400 –> 00:21:49,500
One of the things they start
doing is Trying to recruit
360
00:21:49,500 –> 00:21:56,400
people in the United States to
move to Guyana or wherever to
361
00:21:56,600 –> 00:22:00,400
fight as mercenaries and Angola
sounds like a good deal.
362
00:22:00,600 –> 00:22:03,100
You know, hard too hard, too
hard to resist.
363
00:22:03,100 –> 00:22:10,000
Three, Hots and a cot.
My dick shot, rekt, Leve Ryan.
364
00:22:10,600 –> 00:22:13,900
So they’ve gotten people for
decades centuries.
365
00:22:14,000 –> 00:22:16,500
One of the rumors about
Jonestown.
366
00:22:16,600 –> 00:22:20,700
Is that the compound before it
became Jonestown was used for
367
00:22:20,700 –> 00:22:23,800
something else and that
something else was to trained
368
00:22:23,800 –> 00:22:30,000
mercenaries to fight in Angola
and yeah that is hard to find
369
00:22:30,000 –> 00:22:32,800
information on.
It’s called project Shalom and
370
00:22:32,800 –> 00:22:36,800
there’s still a projects Shalom
out there that I think is kind
371
00:22:36,800 –> 00:22:40,000
of tied to whatever was at but
now it’s just like a Christian
372
00:22:40,000 –> 00:22:42,800
organization as opposed like
they don’t have they’re not like
373
00:22:42,800 –> 00:22:46,100
training mercenaries on their
website rights Days Creek
374
00:22:46,100 –> 00:22:49,200
Christian, Organization.
Interesting, interesting.
375
00:22:49,200 –> 00:22:52,600
Name, the CIA loves a Christian
organization.
376
00:22:52,700 –> 00:22:55,800
They, they do a lot of work with
missionaries.
377
00:22:56,000 –> 00:22:58,600
That’s why.
Whenever a missionary gets taken
378
00:22:58,600 –> 00:23:01,900
by a foreign government on
suspicion of being a spy, I’m
379
00:23:01,900 –> 00:23:03,800
always like listen, send them
home.
380
00:23:03,800 –> 00:23:05,800
But yeah, you’re right.
He’s probably a spy.
381
00:23:05,800 –> 00:23:07,800
Yeah.
Like, why was he that close to
382
00:23:07,800 –> 00:23:11,700
the border of Iran?
No one needs to be there.
383
00:23:11,800 –> 00:23:16,400
Honestly, it’s not to not to do
the invoke.
384
00:23:16,400 –> 00:23:19,100
The A year thing, but it’s the
year 2021.
385
00:23:19,200 –> 00:23:23,900
Do we really need missionaries
in general regardless of whether
386
00:23:23,900 –> 00:23:27,900
they’re CIA spies?
I think the information is out
387
00:23:27,900 –> 00:23:29,700
there.
It’s okay, guys.
388
00:23:29,900 –> 00:23:33,300
You can take a break.
Yeah, I think public opinion has
389
00:23:33,600 –> 00:23:37,400
turned on, trying to convert
Muslims, to Christianity.
390
00:23:37,800 –> 00:23:41,100
I had wings.
Let that ride and just, yeah,
391
00:23:41,200 –> 00:23:43,200
everyone.
Stay on their own respective
392
00:23:43,200 –> 00:23:45,200
sides.
It’s for the best.
393
00:23:45,300 –> 00:23:48,100
It’s really for the best.
Best if we would just get out of
394
00:23:48,100 –> 00:23:54,400
the middle, and it’s fine.
But So this project Shalom
395
00:23:54,400 –> 00:23:58,100
thing, there’s not a ton of
information about it, but there
396
00:23:58,100 –> 00:24:00,500
is a Declassified State
Department.
397
00:24:00,500 –> 00:24:06,100
Document that says the following
in July, 1974 Embassy officers
398
00:24:06,200 –> 00:24:10,600
visited the to agricultural
communities being established in
399
00:24:10,600 –> 00:24:15,300
the vicinity of kaituna which is
the port that Jim Jones used to
400
00:24:15,700 –> 00:24:19,000
get stuff into Jonestown the
people’s Temple agricultural
401
00:24:19,000 –> 00:24:24,800
Mission and the shalom.
Cooperative so yeah, it probably
402
00:24:25,000 –> 00:24:29,200
was exactly that.
And right, you have to like
403
00:24:29,200 –> 00:24:31,900
clearly the CIA was doing shit
in Guyana.
404
00:24:31,900 –> 00:24:37,500
They deposed one leader, put
their leader in charge.
405
00:24:37,500 –> 00:24:42,200
They start training mercenaries
there and when you consider
406
00:24:42,200 –> 00:24:46,300
that, you have to consider the
cia’s main areas of Interest
407
00:24:46,300 –> 00:24:51,000
after World War Two, which I
think come down to four things.
408
00:24:51,300 –> 00:24:54,900
Mind control oppressing, black
people toppling foreign
409
00:24:54,900 –> 00:24:58,700
governments and making sure
United States business interests
410
00:24:58,800 –> 00:25:01,200
in foreign countries are tended
to and yeah.
411
00:25:01,500 –> 00:25:05,500
All of those things intersect in
Guyana even at Jonestown.
412
00:25:05,500 –> 00:25:07,800
Yeah.
And with all the other stuff
413
00:25:07,800 –> 00:25:12,400
they were doing like, there’s no
way, there’s no way Jonestown
414
00:25:12,400 –> 00:25:16,000
was not a CIA thing because
everything else in the country
415
00:25:16,000 –> 00:25:20,400
was except for the political
party, they wanted to squash.
416
00:25:21,200 –> 00:25:24,200
Everything else was?
Yeah, I mean, yeah, they
417
00:25:24,200 –> 00:25:29,500
definitely had their fingers.
I would say in a lot of pies and
418
00:25:29,500 –> 00:25:33,100
it seems like mind control is
really the only one that ever
419
00:25:33,100 –> 00:25:37,100
got rumbled, like in the big
way, the only one that ever like
420
00:25:37,900 –> 00:25:41,200
got.
So, so much public attention
421
00:25:41,200 –> 00:25:44,000
that they like just were like,
hey, all right, all right, all
422
00:25:44,000 –> 00:25:48,800
right, we gotta, we gotta chill
out on this, but everything else
423
00:25:48,800 –> 00:25:51,000
is still pretty much the modus
operandi.
424
00:25:51,300 –> 00:25:56,800
And the argument, I’ve always
suspected it and I’ve actually
425
00:25:57,300 –> 00:26:02,400
seen it said in researching,
this one of the main proponents
426
00:26:02,400 –> 00:26:06,700
of the CIA Theory at first after
Jonestown happened was guy named
427
00:26:06,700 –> 00:26:10,500
Joe holzinger.
Who was an aide to Leo Ryan.
428
00:26:10,700 –> 00:26:14,100
Leo Ryan is the congressman who
was killed at Jonestown and
429
00:26:14,100 –> 00:26:16,200
right?
He immediately after getting
430
00:26:16,200 –> 00:26:20,000
back was like, that was some CIA
shit CIA did.
431
00:26:20,000 –> 00:26:24,000
Jonestown They probably killed
all those people and we should
432
00:26:24,000 –> 00:26:28,800
look into this and one of the
things he suggested or claimed
433
00:26:28,800 –> 00:26:33,700
was that after MKUltra got found
out as being a thing that was
434
00:26:33,700 –> 00:26:36,500
happening at just colleges and
hospitals.
435
00:26:36,500 –> 00:26:40,500
All around the u.s. and Canada.
The CIA was like, all right well
436
00:26:40,500 –> 00:26:44,000
we can’t do that in public
anymore so we’ll just take it to
437
00:26:44,000 –> 00:26:46,000
fucking Colts and communes and
shit.
438
00:26:46,000 –> 00:26:50,400
And right, it seems like
Jonestown was that because it
439
00:26:50,400 –> 00:26:52,600
that moved.
Anna happens right when those
440
00:26:52,600 –> 00:26:55,300
Church committee hearings are
happening when everyone’s
441
00:26:55,300 –> 00:26:59,500
finding out about MKUltra and
they’re not just gonna listen,
442
00:26:59,600 –> 00:27:03,300
they are clearly on to something
when it comes to mind control.
443
00:27:04,100 –> 00:27:09,000
Sure, like they stuck with that
shit for decades, right?
444
00:27:09,000 –> 00:27:12,000
And we’re supposed to think,
they just gave it up in 74.
445
00:27:13,300 –> 00:27:16,600
Yeah, I mean, I don’t know they
had all those guys staring at
446
00:27:16,600 –> 00:27:20,800
goats and, you know, it just
maybe that was just to cut.
447
00:27:21,100 –> 00:27:26,300
Too costly, I don’t know.
The heat got too bad, there is
448
00:27:26,600 –> 00:27:29,400
video out there.
I didn’t put it in the notes
449
00:27:29,400 –> 00:27:32,100
because I think I want to do an
entire episode about it, but
450
00:27:32,100 –> 00:27:38,800
there is this Doctor Who in the
60s, fought a bowl, using a box,
451
00:27:39,000 –> 00:27:42,400
he connected electrodes inside
this bowls brain.
452
00:27:42,400 –> 00:27:45,300
It was all Wireless.
He put these electrodes in this
453
00:27:45,300 –> 00:27:49,500
Bulls brain and then goes out
into the bullfighting ring and
454
00:27:49,500 –> 00:27:53,600
has this box.
And the fucking regular.
455
00:27:53,600 –> 00:27:57,400
Bullfighter guy does the, the
red cape thing in the bull
456
00:27:57,400 –> 00:28:00,200
starts charged atom in the guy,
just hits a button and that
457
00:28:00,200 –> 00:28:04,400
motherfucker stops and just
turns around and walks away and
458
00:28:04,400 –> 00:28:10,500
that was 1963.
Yeah and that guy he gotta eat.
459
00:28:10,500 –> 00:28:12,800
Got the Nobel Prize for some in
the finding a way to make
460
00:28:12,800 –> 00:28:16,500
bullfights less ethical it was
actually really impressive.
461
00:28:16,600 –> 00:28:20,700
Yeah, I mean yeah, that is true.
It’s probably is the less
462
00:28:20,700 –> 00:28:22,900
ethical No reason.
It’s also terrifying that he
463
00:28:22,900 –> 00:28:24,500
figured that out.
Oh, yeah.
464
00:28:24,600 –> 00:28:27,800
Because for sure there have been
so many years since to figure
465
00:28:27,800 –> 00:28:32,000
out even more, and that’s the
thing, the CIA was so into mind
466
00:28:32,000 –> 00:28:37,300
control and they were especially
into controlling groups like it
467
00:28:37,300 –> 00:28:40,900
would be really inefficient to
put all of this energy into
468
00:28:40,900 –> 00:28:43,200
controlling like one person at a
time.
469
00:28:43,300 –> 00:28:48,300
So they were trying to control
groups and they especially
470
00:28:48,300 –> 00:28:51,000
wanted to control black people
and poor people.
471
00:28:51,700 –> 00:28:55,000
And people who might bitch about
the government, not treating
472
00:28:55,000 –> 00:29:03,100
them properly and what it seems
like they were doing in Guyana
473
00:29:03,100 –> 00:29:08,400
was trying to get as many black
people as possible to move their
474
00:29:08,600 –> 00:29:12,700
under the guise of.
This is where black activist go
475
00:29:12,900 –> 00:29:16,400
like this is this is a Utopia
like Jim Jones.
476
00:29:16,400 –> 00:29:21,400
I think was supposed to be one
of the faces of that because And
477
00:29:21,700 –> 00:29:24,900
almost up until the very end
that was his whole Public Image.
478
00:29:24,900 –> 00:29:29,500
Was this guy is building a
Utopia for black people and what
479
00:29:29,500 –> 00:29:33,400
he was really doing was forcing
them into slavery like.
480
00:29:33,400 –> 00:29:38,300
Yeah.
And it is generally usually a
481
00:29:38,300 –> 00:29:42,700
warning sign when a White Guy
starts building a Utopia for
482
00:29:42,700 –> 00:29:45,400
black people, usually a red
flag.
483
00:29:45,400 –> 00:29:49,000
I would say, yeah, we would we
would certainly question it now.
484
00:29:50,000 –> 00:29:52,800
That’s for goddamn sure.
Are like yeah.
485
00:29:52,800 –> 00:29:56,400
But back then in Jones we get
yeah, he would get cancelled.
486
00:29:56,400 –> 00:30:01,000
Yeah, but back then like people
were buying it, people really
487
00:30:01,000 –> 00:30:03,200
thought.
And here’s the thing, that’s the
488
00:30:03,200 –> 00:30:06,500
other thing that makes me feel
like this was, obviously, a
489
00:30:06,500 –> 00:30:11,600
government plot of some sort
because it didn’t take much to
490
00:30:11,600 –> 00:30:15,500
know that Jim Jones was a
fucking criminal way before he
491
00:30:15,500 –> 00:30:17,800
moved to California like any of
that.
492
00:30:17,800 –> 00:30:22,700
Like, it was so obvious and he
Clearly had some level of
493
00:30:22,700 –> 00:30:27,500
protection that allowed him to
just be this egregious, terrible
494
00:30:27,500 –> 00:30:30,500
criminal for years and years and
years but also become kind of a
495
00:30:30,508 –> 00:30:33,500
media celebrity like right,
right.
496
00:30:33,600 –> 00:30:35,400
Someone has to be overseeing
that.
497
00:30:35,500 –> 00:30:41,600
But yeah, the media has always
been obsessed with with charming
498
00:30:42,600 –> 00:30:44,800
monsters though, at the same
time.
499
00:30:44,900 –> 00:30:48,800
That’s true.
So yeah, I don’t know.
500
00:30:48,900 –> 00:30:53,500
I just, I wish I could go back.
Can see more of like the
501
00:30:53,500 –> 00:30:56,600
original coverage of Jim Jones?
I mean a lot of it’s out there.
502
00:30:56,600 –> 00:31:00,000
Yeah.
But what a weird fucking guy and
503
00:31:00,000 –> 00:31:05,400
what a weird guy to like rise to
that level of Fame and then
504
00:31:05,400 –> 00:31:08,900
yeah, just to get you and all
your followers murdered by the
505
00:31:08,900 –> 00:31:11,500
CIA at the end.
Yeah.
506
00:31:11,500 –> 00:31:15,000
Like in the footage that at
least that I’ve seen of him,
507
00:31:15,000 –> 00:31:19,600
which is not immediately, not
like an extensive, but he’s one
508
00:31:19,600 –> 00:31:26,400
of the Like most unappealing of
these like, charismatic cult
509
00:31:26,400 –> 00:31:30,000
leader types.
I don’t find any, I don’t you
510
00:31:30,000 –> 00:31:33,700
like sometimes, you know, like,
you know, you’re David koresh’s.
511
00:31:33,900 –> 00:31:36,700
I was just going to say, who’s
your favorite, who’s your fav –
512
00:31:36,700 –> 00:31:42,500
David koresh koresh’s up there,
but like just, you know, even
513
00:31:42,500 –> 00:31:44,700
though they’re, you know, you
know, that they’re bad people,
514
00:31:44,700 –> 00:31:49,800
or whatever you can, at least
see what other people see in
515
00:31:49,800 –> 00:31:52,900
them.
And with Jones is just really
516
00:31:52,900 –> 00:31:55,100
tough.
It’s a tough sell for me.
517
00:31:55,300 –> 00:32:01,600
It is and I think that’s part of
why he went for the demographic.
518
00:32:01,600 –> 00:32:05,700
He went for because one, uh, one
characteristic about Jim Jones
519
00:32:05,700 –> 00:32:08,800
is he wouldn’t come to a
community and start trying to
520
00:32:08,800 –> 00:32:11,900
recruit everyone in the
community he wanted
521
00:32:12,000 –> 00:32:15,200
impoverished.
Black people that was that was
522
00:32:15,200 –> 00:32:18,400
his demo.
And right, I think he was just
523
00:32:18,400 –> 00:32:23,600
trying to get people that One
were desperate, obviously.
524
00:32:23,900 –> 00:32:28,300
And looking for a way out of the
situation they were in and also
525
00:32:28,300 –> 00:32:31,700
someone who would go.
Yes, it is actually the
526
00:32:31,700 –> 00:32:35,800
government’s fault like this.
This is everything is coming for
527
00:32:35,800 –> 00:32:38,700
you in the United States.
So we should probably get the
528
00:32:38,700 –> 00:32:41,900
fuck out of here and you can
hide from the government all the
529
00:32:41,900 –> 00:32:45,000
while, I think it was the CIA
going.
530
00:32:45,100 –> 00:32:49,000
Yeah, get black people to move
to Guyana because even Forbes
531
00:32:49,000 –> 00:32:52,400
Burnham when he takes office he
It’s trying to get black people
532
00:32:52,400 –> 00:32:56,000
to move from the UK to Guyana
and there’s a quote, from
533
00:32:56,000 –> 00:32:58,400
Forbes.
Burnham where he says, exploit
534
00:32:58,400 –> 00:33:02,400
the exploitable, classic
dictator slogan, I would say.
535
00:33:02,600 –> 00:33:06,600
And I honestly think that is
what I think Forbes.
536
00:33:06,600 –> 00:33:11,000
Burnham and the CIA were trying
to team up and make Guyana a
537
00:33:11,000 –> 00:33:14,500
place that black activists would
flee to thinking it was some
538
00:33:14,500 –> 00:33:18,500
kind of utopia and then they
would get there and basically be
539
00:33:18,500 –> 00:33:20,300
slaves.
That’s what happened at
540
00:33:20,300 –> 00:33:21,100
Jonestown.
Down.
541
00:33:21,300 –> 00:33:25,100
Like it was sold as one thing
and then you were forced into 16
542
00:33:25,100 –> 00:33:28,500
to 18 hours of Labor a day once
you got there, right?
543
00:33:28,600 –> 00:33:32,800
And the thing about Jonestown
even where it’s at is important
544
00:33:32,800 –> 00:33:36,000
because there’s a whole
two-thirds of Guyana that
545
00:33:36,000 –> 00:33:39,800
Venezuela claims is theirs.
And yeah, it’s a border dispute
546
00:33:39,800 –> 00:33:43,300
that’s been going on for decades
and decades and even flared up
547
00:33:43,300 –> 00:33:48,200
again, and like, 2019 Jonestown
was in that disputed area,
548
00:33:48,600 –> 00:33:50,800
right?
Near the border of Venezuela.
549
00:33:51,000 –> 00:33:54,800
And I think there were two
reasons for that one shit ton of
550
00:33:54,800 –> 00:33:59,200
resources, there, gold like all
kinds of minerals and like,
551
00:33:59,200 –> 00:34:02,000
that’s that’s where Venezuela
eventually found all that oil.
552
00:34:02,200 –> 00:34:06,500
So if you’re gonna set up a big
forced labor, operation you
553
00:34:06,500 –> 00:34:08,100
might as well.
Do it on top of a goal, a
554
00:34:08,100 –> 00:34:13,000
literal gold mine, but also
putting it there meant, if
555
00:34:13,000 –> 00:34:17,400
Venezuela ever wanted to claim
that territory, they would have
556
00:34:17,400 –> 00:34:20,000
to go through an encampment of
Americans first.
557
00:34:20,100 –> 00:34:23,699
And then that would give us a
reason to get involved in that
558
00:34:23,699 –> 00:34:26,500
conflict because we’re not going
to let Venezuela have all those
559
00:34:26,500 –> 00:34:28,199
resources even though they have
them now.
560
00:34:28,699 –> 00:34:30,800
Exactly.
And that’s a, that’s it, that is
561
00:34:30,800 –> 00:34:36,400
a classic American foreign
policy, maneuver to put
562
00:34:36,400 –> 00:34:38,800
Americans.
You know, make sure you situate
563
00:34:38,800 –> 00:34:42,199
like us bases and these sorts of
things, you put them in a place
564
00:34:42,199 –> 00:34:48,300
where, you know, so if it maybe
it’s contested, maybe a both
565
00:34:48,300 –> 00:34:51,900
sides just antsy and then you
know, You want to make sure it
566
00:34:51,900 –> 00:34:53,900
swings one way or another.
You put a bunch of Americans
567
00:34:53,900 –> 00:34:55,800
there and then that makes people
think twice.
568
00:34:55,900 –> 00:34:58,600
Yeah.
And when it comes to just
569
00:34:58,600 –> 00:35:02,600
conspiracy theories in general
in this country a lot of times
570
00:35:02,600 –> 00:35:07,800
the really Fantastical shit is
just kind of covering something
571
00:35:07,800 –> 00:35:12,800
also atrocious but a little more
mundane like how right Bush did
572
00:35:12,800 –> 00:35:16,300
9/11 the government would love
to have us believe that because
573
00:35:16,300 –> 00:35:19,600
then we’re not saying well,
that’s Audi Arabia do 911 like
574
00:35:19,700 –> 00:35:23,500
right exactly Most of them were
from Saudi Arabia because that’s
575
00:35:23,500 –> 00:35:25,700
our Ally and we’re not, we’re
not going to question that.
576
00:35:25,800 –> 00:35:30,600
Yeah, and I feel like with
Jonestown it could be as simple
577
00:35:30,600 –> 00:35:31,800
as.
Okay.
578
00:35:32,100 –> 00:35:36,200
We want that there.
So Venezuela won’t invade and we
579
00:35:36,200 –> 00:35:39,800
can do whatever we want in
Guyana and we don’t give a fuck
580
00:35:39,800 –> 00:35:41,300
what you do.
Just right.
581
00:35:41,300 –> 00:35:44,300
Stay there and try to recruit
Americans and that’s it.
582
00:35:44,400 –> 00:35:47,200
Yeah.
Like I think the CIA sometimes
583
00:35:47,200 –> 00:35:49,000
does shit that gets away from
him.
584
00:35:50,100 –> 00:35:54,700
We covered A group called The
finders not too long ago.
585
00:35:54,700 –> 00:35:58,000
I still owe people a second
episode about that but the
586
00:35:58,000 –> 00:36:03,500
finders it seems like the CIA
started them as a propaganda
587
00:36:03,500 –> 00:36:07,800
thing and it just on its own
spun off into a sex cult that
588
00:36:07,800 –> 00:36:11,400
was like trafficking kids and
the CI like once it was found
589
00:36:11,400 –> 00:36:16,100
out the CIA was like, Wow ups
but you can’t mess up and they
590
00:36:16,100 –> 00:36:20,000
just shut all the investigations
into it down and like Jonestown
591
00:36:20,000 –> 00:36:24,100
could just As easily just be
that it could just sure like
592
00:36:24,100 –> 00:36:27,500
that could have been the
beginning and end of it is yeah,
593
00:36:27,500 –> 00:36:29,900
strategic location so we can do
whatever the fuck we want
594
00:36:29,900 –> 00:36:32,100
Guyana.
Even then pretty fucking crazy.
595
00:36:32,200 –> 00:36:35,100
Oh sure.
Absolutely very plausible.
596
00:36:35,100 –> 00:36:38,000
Also but something about all the
drugs that were found there,
597
00:36:38,000 –> 00:36:40,900
make me think it’s more than
that because it’s not like they
598
00:36:40,900 –> 00:36:45,600
found party drugs.
They found massive stock piles
599
00:36:45,600 –> 00:36:50,700
of the exact same drugs that the
MKUltra experiments were Center.
600
00:36:50,900 –> 00:36:53,800
Around like there’s not a single
True Crime show.
601
00:36:53,800 –> 00:36:57,500
Cop that would let a murderer
get away with a coincidence.
602
00:36:57,500 –> 00:36:59,900
Like that those are the moments
where you would hear?
603
00:37:00,400 –> 00:37:04,300
I always say, there’s no such
thing as coincidences, but I
604
00:37:04,308 –> 00:37:07,400
don’t know the drugs.
It’s the, the drugs, not just
605
00:37:07,400 –> 00:37:11,000
the drugs, but just the fact
that it’s in Guyana at a time
606
00:37:11,000 –> 00:37:15,400
when the c.i.a. is actively
trying to recruit black people
607
00:37:15,400 –> 00:37:18,400
to come to Guyana to be trained
as mercenaries.
608
00:37:18,700 –> 00:37:24,300
And then there’s also this This
Shady, quasi religious figure
609
00:37:24,500 –> 00:37:28,900
who at the exact same time is
trying to recruit black people
610
00:37:28,900 –> 00:37:32,000
to come to Guyana to be forced
labor.
611
00:37:32,000 –> 00:37:36,100
Hmm, there is no way.
Those two things are not
612
00:37:36,100 –> 00:37:38,900
connected.
There’s no fucking way.
613
00:37:39,000 –> 00:37:41,300
I don’t care what the rest of
this book says there’s no
614
00:37:41,300 –> 00:37:44,000
goddamn way, right?
It’ll be unlikely.
615
00:37:44,000 –> 00:37:48,700
I would say very unlikely and
what’s crazy is Jonestown wasn’t
616
00:37:48,700 –> 00:37:53,400
even the only Jonestown in
Guyana for one thing it’s
617
00:37:53,400 –> 00:37:56,800
brought up in one of the
articles that will link to for
618
00:37:56,800 –> 00:38:00,300
this episode.
There are maps of Guyana from
619
00:38:00,300 –> 00:38:03,800
around that time that some of
them show Jonestown and
620
00:38:03,800 –> 00:38:07,300
completely different spot.
But then there’s also one that
621
00:38:07,300 –> 00:38:10,600
shows Jonestown and then like 25
miles away, there’s a place
622
00:38:10,600 –> 00:38:13,200
called Johnstown and what the
fuck was that?
623
00:38:13,200 –> 00:38:17,000
But confusing naming, then
there’s the house of Israel
624
00:38:17,300 –> 00:38:21,000
which is what a lot of people
came to call the Other
625
00:38:21,000 –> 00:38:24,200
Jonestown, that was another
weird community that popped up
626
00:38:24,200 –> 00:38:29,400
in Guyana and just like
Jonestown headed up by a shady
627
00:38:29,400 –> 00:38:32,800
American criminal parading as a
religious figure.
628
00:38:33,100 –> 00:38:38,200
Except this guy was more of an
actual religious figure that
629
00:38:38,200 –> 00:38:39,600
doesn’t mean he.
Yeah.
630
00:38:39,600 –> 00:38:44,300
Good and honest but sure also
like it, you know, he was on
631
00:38:44,400 –> 00:38:48,300
even as you know on bail for
like extortion or something.
632
00:38:48,300 –> 00:38:51,800
Right?
Well yeah I don’t know but When
633
00:38:51,800 –> 00:38:55,900
we talk about I mean the fact
will you’ll talk about who he
634
00:38:55,900 –> 00:39:00,300
was but I don’t know seems a
little less Shady in general
635
00:39:00,400 –> 00:39:05,100
than Jim Jones.
Oh definitely definitely even if
636
00:39:05,107 –> 00:39:07,200
it’s for one thing.
His followers don’t really
637
00:39:07,200 –> 00:39:13,000
report any of the the beatings
and abuse that the Jonestown
638
00:39:13,000 –> 00:39:16,300
people were getting but this
group they were called the house
639
00:39:16,300 –> 00:39:20,700
of Israel and they were run by a
guy named Rabbi David Hill and
640
00:39:20,800 –> 00:39:25,800
And he decides to move to Guyana
after they start popping guy in
641
00:39:25,800 –> 00:39:30,500
up as this place where black
activists should come to escape
642
00:39:30,500 –> 00:39:34,800
the oppressiveness of the United
States government, and he ends
643
00:39:34,800 –> 00:39:38,600
up fleeing after these extortion
charges, which even then the
644
00:39:38,600 –> 00:39:43,700
extortion charges are in
relation to this campaign he
645
00:39:43,700 –> 00:39:48,200
went on about how McDonald’s had
almost, no black franchise
646
00:39:48,200 –> 00:39:53,300
owners in the city of Cleveland.
And somehow that campaign ended
647
00:39:53,300 –> 00:39:54,400
in extortion.
Charges.
648
00:39:54,400 –> 00:39:57,700
So even then I’m like, alright,
I need to read, yes, fucking
649
00:39:57,900 –> 00:40:01,400
court report.
Before him so long that I would
650
00:40:01,400 –> 00:40:05,000
say, citation needed.
Yeah, I would love to love to
651
00:40:05,000 –> 00:40:08,900
know more about that because
yeah, yeah, that sounds like
652
00:40:08,900 –> 00:40:13,000
some some bullshit.
And personally, I think this
653
00:40:13,000 –> 00:40:18,900
guy, unlike Jim Jones did go to
Guyana believing it was a Haven
654
00:40:18,900 –> 00:40:21,500
for black revolutionaries.
For sure.
655
00:40:21,500 –> 00:40:26,900
I don’t think I think Jim Jones
feels like a more deliberate and
656
00:40:26,900 –> 00:40:30,900
Insidious thing, but I feel like
this guy, maybe just bought it
657
00:40:30,900 –> 00:40:34,500
because he’s black, he’s right.
Another big difference between
658
00:40:34,500 –> 00:40:38,700
him and Jim Jones.
Yes, always always a lot more
659
00:40:38,700 –> 00:40:42,500
comforting when a black person
is leading a group of thousands
660
00:40:42,500 –> 00:40:45,800
of black people.
Yes, to the one white guy in the
661
00:40:45,800 –> 00:40:48,900
room and he is like a black
power revolutionary.
662
00:40:48,900 –> 00:40:54,200
Like, you know, this is This is
a pretty ethical track record on
663
00:40:54,300 –> 00:40:57,100
I would say before, going to
Guyana.
664
00:40:57,100 –> 00:41:00,200
Yeah.
Any then they get to Guyana and
665
00:41:00,400 –> 00:41:05,600
yeah, they basically become the
muscle for Forbes, Burnham’s
666
00:41:05,900 –> 00:41:09,100
government.
So if like they would break up
667
00:41:09,100 –> 00:41:14,500
strikes they would break up
protests they would not cool.
668
00:41:14,500 –> 00:41:18,800
Not they were bad, they would
influence their voting, all the
669
00:41:18,808 –> 00:41:22,000
bad stuff, Very Bad Things.
Yeah, they were like, Forbes
670
00:41:22,000 –> 00:41:26,800
Burnham side, police basically.
It’s it’s disappointed like it’s
671
00:41:26,800 –> 00:41:31,300
very anti-revolutionary.
It’s just very, you know,
672
00:41:31,400 –> 00:41:34,100
seemingly against the ethos,
that drove them there in the
673
00:41:34,100 –> 00:41:37,000
first place.
And it’s part of the reason why
674
00:41:37,000 –> 00:41:41,100
I feel like they didn’t know
this was a CIA thing.
675
00:41:41,300 –> 00:41:43,900
Like I feel, yeah.
I feel like they legitimately
676
00:41:43,900 –> 00:41:47,900
moved there because one of the
reasons that they give for why
677
00:41:47,900 –> 00:41:50,700
they took this turn and start
becoming like this violent.
678
00:41:50,800 –> 00:41:57,400
Side wing of the Burnham regime
is that they saw him also as a
679
00:41:57,400 –> 00:42:02,200
revolutionary and someone who
legitimately was trying to set
680
00:42:02,200 –> 00:42:06,300
up Guyana as a place where black
activists and revolutionaries
681
00:42:06,300 –> 00:42:10,700
could go and Thrive and little
do they know he’s working pretty
682
00:42:10,700 –> 00:42:13,200
much directly with the CIA,
right?
683
00:42:13,200 –> 00:42:17,700
There’s a book that I’m going to
do an episode about soon called
684
00:42:17,700 –> 00:42:20,800
The Cult of intelligence and the
CIA or the CIA.
685
00:42:20,800 –> 00:42:24,200
A on the cult of intelligence by
Victor marchetti first book, the
686
00:42:24,200 –> 00:42:28,800
government ever censored.
And one of the things that they
687
00:42:28,800 –> 00:42:31,900
wanted censored from this book
was Victor.
688
00:42:31,900 –> 00:42:36,000
Marchetti has claimed that the
CIA had been directly paying
689
00:42:36,000 –> 00:42:39,400
Forbes Burnham, the whole time
he was in office and this was in
690
00:42:39,400 –> 00:42:41,500
77.
So it was a year before
691
00:42:41,600 –> 00:42:45,700
Jonestown even happened.
So I don’t know if this group
692
00:42:45,700 –> 00:42:50,600
knew what kind of involvement
Forbes Burnham had with the CIA?
693
00:42:50,800 –> 00:42:53,000
Like, right.
I will definitely give this
694
00:42:53,000 –> 00:42:54,700
group credit for not
slaughtering all of their
695
00:42:54,700 –> 00:42:57,400
followers.
Yeah, no big.
696
00:42:57,400 –> 00:43:00,700
Big UPS yep’s on that especially
because there were more like
697
00:43:00,700 –> 00:43:04,300
8,000 people in this group.
Yeah.
698
00:43:04,300 –> 00:43:07,600
A small army.
But you might say they were
699
00:43:07,600 –> 00:43:10,300
still even though they were an
actual religious group and they
700
00:43:10,308 –> 00:43:13,600
were a little more mainstream,
they were still viewed as being
701
00:43:13,600 –> 00:43:19,500
a cult in Guyana especially
after Jonestown happens after
702
00:43:19,500 –> 00:43:23,200
the Jonestown Massacre.
Her then of course people are
703
00:43:23,200 –> 00:43:27,200
like there’s the new Jim Jones,
you know, whether it was fair or
704
00:43:27,200 –> 00:43:31,300
not, but I think just the fact
that that was running at the
705
00:43:31,300 –> 00:43:37,200
same time as Jonestown and the
same time that the CIA is paying
706
00:43:37,200 –> 00:43:39,000
money directly to Forbes
Burnham.
707
00:43:39,100 –> 00:43:43,500
Like I feel like it’s not that
Jonestown was a CIA experiment.
708
00:43:43,500 –> 00:43:47,800
I feel like Guyana was a CIA
experiment like the whole
709
00:43:47,800 –> 00:43:49,800
fucking country.
Yeah.
710
00:43:49,900 –> 00:43:53,400
I mean Really you could even
broaden that to say that South
711
00:43:53,400 –> 00:43:59,000
America was a CIA experiment for
a good good period of the 20th
712
00:43:59,000 –> 00:44:01,700
century.
Yeah colonialism baby.
713
00:44:01,900 –> 00:44:05,400
It’s what we do really like that
is kind of what Guyana was we
714
00:44:05,400 –> 00:44:10,700
showed up, we started bringing a
lot of Americans there and set
715
00:44:10,700 –> 00:44:12,900
to exploiting the people in the
resources.
716
00:44:13,100 –> 00:44:18,100
Yeah, we don’t use smallpox
anymore, we just use Colts and
717
00:44:18,100 –> 00:44:21,100
information technology.
And that sort of, Thing.
718
00:44:21,100 –> 00:44:23,700
I’ll Tale As Old As Time.
Yeah, yeah.
719
00:44:23,700 –> 00:44:27,700
So we’re going to wrap this up
with the next free episode.
720
00:44:27,700 –> 00:44:31,500
It’s just really getting
unwieldy and mmm.
721
00:44:31,700 –> 00:44:34,000
I don’t know about anyone who’s
listened to these episodes, but
722
00:44:34,000 –> 00:44:38,000
I really don’t need to be
convinced any further that the
723
00:44:38,000 –> 00:44:40,600
CIA was involved in Jonestown.
Yeah.
724
00:44:40,800 –> 00:44:43,900
Like I said by 1980 if nothing
else.
725
00:44:43,900 –> 00:44:46,700
This was mainstream talking
points.
726
00:44:46,900 –> 00:44:49,300
Yeah.
We’ve till it’s just fallen out
727
00:44:49,300 –> 00:44:52,700
of favor to talk about.
Sort of thing conspiracy
728
00:44:52,700 –> 00:44:57,200
theories in general, like, we’ve
come out that other end now,
729
00:44:57,200 –> 00:45:01,300
where anything that has the tag
conspiracy theory attached to
730
00:45:01,300 –> 00:45:05,300
it, like people are hesitant to
even bring it up or it’s not
731
00:45:05,300 –> 00:45:09,300
treated as a serious thing, but
this is very serious.
732
00:45:09,500 –> 00:45:11,800
Yeah, it is.
It’s interesting.
733
00:45:11,800 –> 00:45:15,000
It’s really not even in our
media anymore.
734
00:45:15,000 –> 00:45:19,500
I like political thriller used
to be like a full genre, that
735
00:45:19,500 –> 00:45:24,200
will, especially on the 70s was
like the height of it and I
736
00:45:24,200 –> 00:45:28,400
don’t feel like I can’t even
remember the last successful
737
00:45:28,400 –> 00:45:31,500
political thriller that, you
know, like there’s just aren’t
738
00:45:31,500 –> 00:45:34,600
very many usually there.
Or if there are there about deep
739
00:45:34,600 –> 00:45:38,300
history not about anything, even
resembling current events,
740
00:45:38,300 –> 00:45:40,800
fucking DaVinci Code, or
something like that.
741
00:45:41,200 –> 00:45:45,000
Well, that I don’t know if we
can call that up a little.
742
00:45:45,000 –> 00:45:49,300
Come on, come on, the Opus.
Dei I don’t think is quite on
743
00:45:49,300 –> 00:45:55,900
the same level as the A they’re
probably run by the CIA and for
744
00:45:55,900 –> 00:45:59,400
all I know you know those I
don’t think the CIA is trying to
745
00:45:59,400 –> 00:46:02,600
hide that Marion Cotillard is
Jesus is like
746
00:46:02,600 –> 00:46:04,900
great-great-great-granddaughter
whatever.
747
00:46:05,600 –> 00:46:10,100
Here’s the thing about the CIA.
People make jokes at me a lot
748
00:46:10,100 –> 00:46:12,900
about him, don’t get disappeared
by the CIA.
749
00:46:13,300 –> 00:46:16,400
There is nothing that could ever
be done in the history of the
750
00:46:16,400 –> 00:46:20,500
world that would bring the CIA
to Justice over Joe.
751
00:46:20,700 –> 00:46:23,800
Jonestown.
That’s ship has fuckin sailed.
752
00:46:23,900 –> 00:46:27,100
Yes, not a cold case, that’s
going to be solved by DNA.
753
00:46:27,300 –> 00:46:32,000
We are basically admiring the
work of Master criminals by
754
00:46:32,000 –> 00:46:35,900
doing this podcast.
It’s like exhibit amening
755
00:46:35,900 –> 00:46:40,700
Alexander’s conquest of Persia
like you’re just like, oh yeah.
756
00:46:40,700 –> 00:46:42,500
Yeah.
I mean, Millions died.
757
00:46:42,500 –> 00:46:44,400
You know, he conquered the whole
region.
758
00:46:45,000 –> 00:46:46,200
It’s fascinating.
Really?
759
00:46:46,200 –> 00:46:51,400
When you look at it, the CIA is
not only I think the Defective
760
00:46:51,400 –> 00:46:55,600
and lethal intelligence agency
ever, they are by far the
761
00:46:55,600 –> 00:47:00,300
cockiest and here’s why I say
that what I’m finding about
762
00:47:00,300 –> 00:47:03,800
Jonestown and pretty much every
conspiracy theory is if you
763
00:47:03,800 –> 00:47:07,300
write a book about it, CIA out
put that shit on their website.
764
00:47:07,400 –> 00:47:11,400
Like, hey, they are not, they
are not hiding from most of this
765
00:47:11,400 –> 00:47:14,600
like that book.
I just mentioned that the CIA
766
00:47:14,600 –> 00:47:18,800
wanted censored, it’s on their
website, the the there’s a
767
00:47:19,300 –> 00:47:22,000
series of magazine.
Is that came out over a span of
768
00:47:22,008 –> 00:47:26,200
10 years that were all super
critical of the CIA written by
769
00:47:26,200 –> 00:47:31,100
former CIA agents.
Exactly 46 pages of those are
770
00:47:31,200 –> 00:47:33,400
censored by the CIA.
The rest.
771
00:47:33,400 –> 00:47:35,400
They’re like we don’t give a
fuck tell people.
772
00:47:35,700 –> 00:47:37,500
Yeah.
What are you gonna do about it?
773
00:47:37,600 –> 00:47:40,000
Like I think they’re proud of
this shit.
774
00:47:40,000 –> 00:47:43,700
Of course.
They are because I would say you
775
00:47:43,700 –> 00:47:47,600
know, taking away like a super
villain motivation.
776
00:47:48,000 –> 00:47:54,700
It’s they look at it as You
know, long Legacy of protecting
777
00:47:54,700 –> 00:47:58,900
American interests at home and
abroad or whatever, like they’ve
778
00:47:58,900 –> 00:48:01,300
got in their minds.
They’ve got no reason to be
779
00:48:01,300 –> 00:48:05,200
ashamed of any of the atrocities
that they’ve committed because
780
00:48:05,200 –> 00:48:08,700
they’ve done it for the public
good or whatever.
781
00:48:08,900 –> 00:48:11,800
Yeah.
So yeah, they would probably
782
00:48:11,800 –> 00:48:14,400
post all of these episodes on
their website.
783
00:48:14,400 –> 00:48:17,900
If I asked like, there’s
absolutely put on their press
784
00:48:17,900 –> 00:48:20,300
page.
Yeah, you should.
785
00:48:20,700 –> 00:48:23,900
You should ask and, you know,
maybe that will happen and I
786
00:48:23,900 –> 00:48:27,400
would be happy for it.
I would love, I would love to be
787
00:48:27,400 –> 00:48:31,300
on the cia’s website, that would
just be so great for me
788
00:48:31,300 –> 00:48:33,300
personally.
I guarantee we’re there, we’re
789
00:48:33,300 –> 00:48:37,800
both on a CIA website of some,
so just more like an intranet.
790
00:48:37,800 –> 00:48:44,500
So lightly 100%.
I am an Arab in the United
791
00:48:44,500 –> 00:48:49,600
States II know that I am on a
watch list somewhere, even if
792
00:48:49,600 –> 00:48:53,700
it’s like a really Noun 1?
Yeah, I don’t think I’m at the
793
00:48:53,700 –> 00:48:56,200
top of any watch lists.
All right.
794
00:48:56,200 –> 00:48:58,600
Exactly.
But if things get really out of
795
00:48:58,900 –> 00:49:01,200
things, get out of hand.
They’ll get to me eventually.
796
00:49:01,400 –> 00:49:05,600
Yeah, I know that when I go to
an airport there is like
797
00:49:05,600 –> 00:49:09,700
somewhere in some database, a
little pink goes off.
798
00:49:11,700 –> 00:49:13,500
Just like, oh this happened.
Okay.
799
00:49:13,500 –> 00:49:17,200
All right.
Yeah, but so yeah, the CIA
800
00:49:17,300 –> 00:49:19,100
there, we’re not going to crack
this case.
801
00:49:19,100 –> 00:49:21,400
If you think it’s coming to
that, If you think the big
802
00:49:21,400 –> 00:49:25,100
reveal at the last episode is
going to be and now we’re ready
803
00:49:25,100 –> 00:49:28,500
to bring them to justice.
Now we’re just going to end this
804
00:49:28,500 –> 00:49:32,200
and be like fuck okay heavy that
should that’ll be a bigger
805
00:49:32,200 –> 00:49:34,900
patreon goal.
You’ll need that you need to
806
00:49:35,300 –> 00:49:39,300
really boost that one up.
So I think that’s our episode
807
00:49:40,300 –> 00:49:43,600
next time around, we’re going to
talk about the White Knight.
808
00:49:43,700 –> 00:49:46,000
That’s what they called it.
The night that everyone
809
00:49:46,100 –> 00:49:49,400
committed suicide, right?
They were all murdered.
810
00:49:49,500 –> 00:49:50,600
We’re going to talk about that
next.
811
00:49:50,700 –> 00:49:53,100
And then we’re going to be done
because here’s the thing.
812
00:49:53,200 –> 00:49:55,600
Here’s the thing.
Here’s the other thing about oh
813
00:49:55,600 –> 00:49:57,700
was the CIA involved in
Jonestown?
814
00:49:58,000 –> 00:50:00,800
I don’t know the first reports
of what happened at Jonestown
815
00:50:00,800 –> 00:50:07,000
came from the CIA, so they
obviously had some connection to
816
00:50:07,000 –> 00:50:07,900
it.
Yeah.
817
00:50:08,000 –> 00:50:10,800
Anyway, they just caught it in
the local newspaper.
818
00:50:10,800 –> 00:50:12,400
They’re like oh, did you see
this?
819
00:50:12,500 –> 00:50:15,500
I just happened razy, just
happened to be in town crazy.
820
00:50:15,500 –> 00:50:17,800
Yeah.
Meanwhile there is one of the
821
00:50:17,800 –> 00:50:20,300
top people at Jonestown a guy
named Richard.
822
00:50:20,600 –> 00:50:25,800
Dwyer for one was in a 1968.
Publication called Who’s, Who in
823
00:50:25,800 –> 00:50:29,400
the CIA?
And also Jim Jones can be heard
824
00:50:29,400 –> 00:50:33,000
on recordings from the massacre.
Right before.
825
00:50:33,000 –> 00:50:35,700
All the killing started he goes.
Get Dwyer out of here.
826
00:50:36,000 –> 00:50:37,100
Uh-huh.
Weird.
827
00:50:37,100 –> 00:50:39,700
Yeah whoops.
Whoops.
828
00:50:39,800 –> 00:50:42,300
And then Dwyer probably shot Jim
Jones in the head on the way
829
00:50:42,300 –> 00:50:43,200
out.
Who knows?
830
00:50:44,000 –> 00:50:46,600
Who knows?
Dwyer’s Dwyers.
831
00:50:46,800 –> 00:50:50,500
Very good with guns we do know
that no yeah what’s up?
832
00:50:51,100 –> 00:50:53,900
Another is this another board
game like dr.
833
00:50:54,500 –> 00:50:59,400
Leighton, I’m just referencing
my one of my favorite references
834
00:50:59,400 –> 00:51:00,800
Budd Dwyer.
That’s it.
835
00:51:00,900 –> 00:51:05,100
Oh, that’s all that ever.
Watch that documentary?
836
00:51:06,200 –> 00:51:08,500
No, I did not watch the
documentary.
837
00:51:08,500 –> 00:51:11,600
I’ve seen the video.
It is not the document.
838
00:51:11,600 –> 00:51:15,400
The documentary is very sad.
He yeah, you’ve we’ve talked
839
00:51:15,400 –> 00:51:17,500
about it.
I it sounds sad.
840
00:51:17,500 –> 00:51:20,300
It’s very depressing.
I mean, it resulted in a man
841
00:51:20,300 –> 00:51:23,200
killing Himself on TV.
I can’t imagine it’s a laugh
842
00:51:23,200 –> 00:51:24,500
Riot.
Yeah yeah.
843
00:51:24,500 –> 00:51:28,500
So that’s usually going to be
going to be a bummer series of
844
00:51:28,500 –> 00:51:32,500
events that leads up to that.
So what do we have to plug
845
00:51:32,500 –> 00:51:35,000
patreon.com slash on pops?
I’m pops.
846
00:51:35,000 –> 00:51:36,500
Network that super cast out
Tech.
847
00:51:36,800 –> 00:51:38,900
You can also follow this show on
Instagram.
848
00:51:38,900 –> 00:51:44,500
Now at conspiracy pops and also
on Twitter at conspiracy pops,
849
00:51:45,300 –> 00:51:48,800
what do you got to plug?
You know, find me on high on
850
00:51:48,800 –> 00:51:50,000
Twitter.
Hi there.
851
00:51:50,000 –> 00:51:52,600
Hi doll.
I live in Indiana now.
852
00:51:52,600 –> 00:51:55,000
Stone.
Oh, and and you know, stand up
853
00:51:55,000 –> 00:51:57,500
is illegal.
So none of that going on.
854
00:51:57,500 –> 00:51:59,400
Yeah.
Yeah.
855
00:51:59,900 –> 00:52:03,000
If you watch my Twitter, they’ll
be some stuff going on.
856
00:52:03,000 –> 00:52:08,300
Eventually I got some stuff
cooking in the pot, stirring,
857
00:52:08,300 –> 00:52:11,700
the pot that sort of thing, all
sorts of pot related things,
858
00:52:11,700 –> 00:52:16,700
cooking up the gumbo.
Yeah, exactly.
859
00:52:16,700 –> 00:52:19,000
That’s exactly how I would
praise it.
860
00:52:19,000 –> 00:52:21,100
All right, let’s get the fuck.
Out of here.
861
00:52:21,100 –> 00:52:23,600
Livia, say goodbye.
Goodbye.
862
00:52:23,700 –> 00:52:25,100
Goodbye everybody.
We love you.