Conspiracy! The Show Embrace Your Inner Conspiracy Theorist

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I went through the transparent.
You just hold on.

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Hey everybody.
Welcome to a very special

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episode of conspiracy to show
what makes it so special.

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I’m the only one in the studio.
Well, besides you, you’re here,

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listening, but not really.
By the time you hear this, I

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will have left the studio
fucking hours and hours ago.

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Probably day, is ago, depending
on when this goes up, but don’t

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worry.
I’m not the only person Person

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who’s going to be talking on
this episode.

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We are going to be joined on the
phone in a few minutes by

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journalist John potash, who if
that name sounds familiar?

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It’s because he’s the guy who
wrote a book that we talked

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about on this podcast, all the
time, called drugs As Weapons

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against us, which among other
things.

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Is the book that brought us the
idea that maybe just maybe

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Courtney Love is a I a asset.
And here’s the thing, you’re not

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going to come away from this
episode thinking that any less

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this episode at its core, I
guess is about embracing your

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inner conspiracy theorist.
And the need to in this

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political climate, take a little
more skeptical approach to

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reading the news, especially
news, that is generated by the

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government, but just news in
general.

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It’s crazy out there, but what
this episode also is, it’s a

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really good example of how fast
the news moves these days.

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We recorded this on August 2nd,
the interview that is.

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And as I record this part, the
introduction to the interview,

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it’s August 19th.
At 17 days.

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At the time, we recorded this
Jeffrey Epstein was still alive

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and that comes up a whole lot in
this interview.

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And also the cop who murdered
Eric Garner still had his job.

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That guy has since been fired, I
believe as of today.

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But another thing that comes up
in this interview related to

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Jeffrey Epstein.
That is also an example of just

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how fast things are progressing
these days.

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I don’t know if progressing is
the right word, but at one point

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in this interview, a theory
about Jeffrey Epstein.

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And What he might have actually
been doing at all those sex

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parties?
I mean, obviously sex with

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underage girls but the
motivation behind that and the

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the end goal of it, there is a
theory that’s brought up in this

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interview again from August 2nd.
That when I heard it it sounded

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like the kind of thing that yes
seems plausible.

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And no, we’ll never hear it
suggested by any sort of

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mainstream Or reputable.
And I put that in air quotes

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media Outlet in any way because
it is highly inflammatory.

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And here we are, August 19th.
And that shit has made its way

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into the media in the span of
recording this episode on August

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2nd.
And now here we are august, 19

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to different.
No, no, he’s not really sources

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because this isn’t a theory
that’s ever probably ever going

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to be confirmed, but there is an
article on New York Magazine and

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why mag.com, if you’re keeping
score at home called real, hedge

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fund managers, have some
thoughts on what Epstein was

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actually doing and it’s a
fascinating article.

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They went out and interviewed
just as the title.

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Implies, bunch of different
hedge fund managers and just

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asked, what did you know about
Jeffrey Epstein?

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What do you know about Jeffrey
Epstein?

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How did he make his money?
No one fucking knows how he made

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his money.
And it’s a really fascinating

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article and at one point they
throw a theory out there about

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what Jeffrey Epstein might have
been doing.

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And they don’t even say it in
the article, they actually link

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to a Twitter thread and we’ll
link to it from the website on

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pops.com, you can go out and see
this article and the Twitter

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thread and they’re both really
interesting reads and I I highly

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suggest you go out and look them
over but I also don’t want to

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spoil the big Jeffrey Epstein
Theory reveal in this interview

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even though I have mentioned it
on a couple recent on pops

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podcast episodes.
But hey maybe you only listen to

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this one.
In which case, I think I’ve also

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already mentioned, it may be on
last week’s episode about

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Jeffrey Epstein.
Ha ha.

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But this week, you get to hear
the interview where I first

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heard that.
Mary and it’s it’s one that’s

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spreading and it doesn’t seem
that crazy but we don’t just

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talk about Jeffrey Epstein.
During this interview, we talked

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about John’s time working as an
addiction counselor, in

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Baltimore in the late 80s, early
90s, which if you know anything

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about the crack epidemic, wild
time to work in Baltimore as an

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addiction counselor.
And we talked about some of the

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things that are in his book, the
death of Tupac Shakur.

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Notorious BIG, whether those
murders will ever be solved.

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Spoiler alert, they probably
will not, and so many other

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things.
So, without further Ado, let’s

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get to our interview with
journalist John potash We’re on

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the phone with John potash The
Man Behind the book and film

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drugs As Weapons against us.
The CIA war on musicians and

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activist John.
Thank you for joining us.

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I appreciate it.
Thanks for having me one atom.

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We’ve we’ve covered a couple
different sections of your most

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recent book.
The the one I just mentioned and

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the accompanying documentary on
this podcast before.

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But if you don’t mind, just give
us a quick overview of what that

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book in general is.
About it’s about the cia’s

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project MKUltra which used drugs
as what they said in their

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documents were unconventional
warfare.

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And it shows how that
unconventional warfare was

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actually used on.
Anyone, who dissented against

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the cia’s racist, pro-war
agenda, and Hyper capitalist

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agenda, and it particularly used
musicians and manipulated

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musicians to help promote drugs
to hurt activist minds.

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And And it was, it targeted also
activists in the Black Panthers

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and the students for a
Democratic Society which was the

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largest anti-war.
It was largest eworkgroup in the

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1960s and Ash from the show.
How it’s it’s been used against

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activists up to today.
What was your background

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previously before you start?
Because you wrote another book

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before this that centers more
around just the Tupac killing.

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What was your background
previously and what made you

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start?
Researching this particular

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topic, well, I was into social
activism out of college and I

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was also a psych major in
college.

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So I went to work as an
addictions, counselor, in

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Baltimore City and then late
1980s.

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And that’s when I had, I’ve
counseled someone who said, my

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father was a black panther
killed by the police.

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And so, I started researching
the Black Panthers and for a

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character in a novel Loosely
based on the idea of drugs As

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Weapons against us.
And so, that’s why I kind of

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took a Tangent from that first
book to focus on Tupac and

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right.
The FBI won’t Tupac Shakur and

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black leaders.
And so I’ve see, I’ve been

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working as a counselor for three
decades.

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I got more advanced degrees and
you studied at Columbia

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University, both Community,
organizing sociology and

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counseling and still make a
living as a counselor because

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because all the censorship of my
work, it doesn’t pay the bills.

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Yeah, of course.
So.

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Wow, you were so, you were
working as an addiction

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counselor, you said in the 80s
in Baltimore.

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Yeah.
Ladies, why is starting likely

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not involvement.
Yeah.

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So that’s really the thick of
the crack epidemic and when it

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first started kind of spreading.
Yeah.

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So I heard a lot of stories that
the wire was based on because

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the writer of The Wire sure was
writing at the same time as I

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was doing counseling there.
So I heard a lot of stories

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before they came out and and The
Wire.

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Yeah and that That kind of makes
seems like it would make a

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natural transition into wanting
to look into the CIA a bit more

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being in the middle of the crack
epidemic when it took off.

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Because that’s obviously a big
Theory out there that the CIA

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was instrumental in starting
that have you.

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Is that a thing you’ve looked
into as part of her work?

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Yeah, that was a mean, that was
a huge part of my book drugs As

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Weapons against us.
But I mean, it’s even Than a

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theory because the Washington
Post even quoted.

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The in CIA Inspector General
saying admitting that the CIA

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was trafficking, right cocaine?
So yeah it’s you know and so

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when in 1991 I was in the middle
of a Washington d.c.

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Street helping block traffic as
part of anti-war protests during

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the first Gulf War under, you
know, present H George h.w.

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Bush.
And and somebody was working

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with the christic Institute,
told me a gave me a copy of the

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Arie report, the John Kerry
report you know our former right

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high official and so they carry
report just show the CIA drug

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trafficking with the Honduran,
you know, Army and all that and

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with the contras and so this
stuff this information was out

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there you know, it didn’t get
far out there, you know, Gary

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Webb put it out there it became
viral and then they pretended

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like he was making it up and but
you know, it’s a lot of people

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did, of course, hear about it.
And so it is a good chunk.

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Of my book and film.
But, you know, it I do focus

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more on other aspects.
And so, a lot of people already

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kind of heard all about the CIA
cocaine trafficking, you know,

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within the Grog Nicaraguan
contras and all I wanted to kind

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of really go into more detail in
the other things that they

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haven’t heard already right?
The Courtney Love Theory I think

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is the most fascinating thing in
the book because it it sounds so

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outlandish, and then when you
read it, especially if you read

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it with any A sort of
understanding of what MKUltra

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was and how it worked.
It all actually makes a lot of

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sense which I think there’s
something to be said for how you

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present that theory in that book
because it really does on the

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surface seem like one of the
wildest claims and not so much

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after you get into it.
Thanks.

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Yeah.
It’s I must say me and my wife

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made me rewrite, that chapter so
many times to make it clear.

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It took so many writings just
get it out there because it is

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so bizarre and there’s so much
to it but just it takes a while

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to really get a clear cut and
I’m glad that it became clear

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cut for you after I reorganize
it so many times, you know to

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make it more clear and now with
this Jeff Epstein stuff, you

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know some of what she’s about is
coming out and she’s the only

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woman celebrity, you know, in
his black book circled and

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people like detective at
Opperman who was hired by one of

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the victims of F Epstein has
said on his podcast that he’s

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found that that Courtney Love,
You know, what evidence is out

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there and he you know and some
of the evidence he’s found is

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that Courtney Love was
recruiting girls for

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prostitution.
Wow it’s a good chance that

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that’s what exactly what he was
doing.

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You know, as the only woman
celebrity in Jeff Epstein’s

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black book.
Do you think the that’s

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fascinating?
Do you think we’re actually

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going to get all of the
information and details?

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From what’s going on with
Jeffrey Epstein?

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I don’t know.
Yeah, it’s hard to say where

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that’s going to go because I
mean, obviously the first

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investigation was squashed, I
mean right, joke investigation,

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he’s in jail part-time,
part-time, he’s doing and you’re

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just for a few days or something
and then he’s out, you know,

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just hanging out in Miami,
enjoying themselves.

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So, you know, so many of these
investigations have said that he

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obviously has Intelligence
connections, you know, a US

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intelligence is Obviously
protecting him but you know,

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maybe also with Mossad or
whoever, or whatever other

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intelligence around the world,
maybe British intelligence, I

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really don’t know.
But but these intelligence

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connections points to the kind
of activities that were copied

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and MKUltra.
You know, in another part of my

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book, I talked about the German
colonies in the Latin American

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countries that were operating
with Operation Condor and so in

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those Operation Condor
countries, you had these

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colonies and New York Times.
Detailed one of the colonies,

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the 100 in Chile, and it was
started by, they said a Nazi

218
00:13:52,500 –> 00:13:58,100
doctor named Peter Schaffer and
it had a, they described it as

219
00:13:58,100 –> 00:14:01,700
like, a country’s worth of arms
and a countries worth of

220
00:14:01,900 –> 00:14:06,100
documents as if they had their
own intelligence agency.

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00:14:06,100 –> 00:14:09,700
In this little colony in Chile.
They also had their own airspace

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00:14:09,700 –> 00:14:11,900
at that.
Chili couldn’t fly over.

223
00:14:12,000 –> 00:14:15,900
Wow, incredible amount of power.
And so, a number of countries

224
00:14:15,900 –> 00:14:19,100
had these types of German
colonies inside their countries

225
00:14:19,100 –> 00:14:24,600
is almost if their countries
were occupied by a foreign

226
00:14:24,600 –> 00:14:26,500
Force.
But, you know, it’s really a CIA

227
00:14:26,500 –> 00:14:29,700
backed force.
And so what they did, one of the

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00:14:30,000 –> 00:14:34,200
articles that detail and have
pictures of the colony said, it

229
00:14:34,200 –> 00:14:36,900
was an article in a, you know, a
different paper than they were

230
00:14:36,908 –> 00:14:39,400
near New York Times was going to
reveal all this.

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00:14:39,400 –> 00:14:43,100
But what this other article had
about this colony was the fact

232
00:14:43,100 –> 00:14:46,500
that they were holding sex
parties with young.

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00:14:46,900 –> 00:14:50,700
Blond hair, blue, eyed German
kids, and they were inviting

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00:14:50,700 –> 00:14:55,400
these, all icons of politicians
in Chile to these parties, and

235
00:14:55,400 –> 00:14:58,700
then filming them having sex
with these kids to Blackmail

236
00:14:58,700 –> 00:15:01,300
them.
And that’s the leading theory of

237
00:15:01,300 –> 00:15:03,400
what was going on with Jeff
Epstein.

238
00:15:03,400 –> 00:15:08,200
Is he was using these sex
parties to not just like entice,

239
00:15:08,200 –> 00:15:11,100
you know, politicians implants
makers but the blackmail them

240
00:15:11,200 –> 00:15:15,700
and this was, you know, this was
thought to be one of the sub

241
00:15:15,700 –> 00:15:19,000
projects of them.
A Ultra, you know, with with

242
00:15:19,000 –> 00:15:23,000
Chile and Operation Condor.
Obviously you know CIA was

243
00:15:23,000 –> 00:15:25,400
backing Operation Condor and
these dictators.

244
00:15:25,800 –> 00:15:30,100
I mean I actually know a guy
through a mutual friend who was

245
00:15:30,100 –> 00:15:33,500
living down there and Paraguay
work on door was running and his

246
00:15:33,500 –> 00:15:36,300
father was high up in the air
force, you know, helping out

247
00:15:36,300 –> 00:15:39,800
things in Paraguay.
So here and, you know, now we

248
00:15:39,800 –> 00:15:42,600
see with with chili what was
going on, was the same thing

249
00:15:42,600 –> 00:15:45,800
that it appears the Epstein was
doing, you know, many of, you

250
00:15:45,800 –> 00:15:50,400
know, articles, Talked about his
tons of videos of things going

251
00:15:50,400 –> 00:15:53,800
on, one of these sex parties.
And, you know, it’s thought that

252
00:15:53,800 –> 00:15:55,100
is this?
What?

253
00:15:55,100 –> 00:15:58,100
Why they’re using them how they
were could gain power over these

254
00:15:58,100 –> 00:16:00,700
politicians, right?
Other what makers?

255
00:16:00,700 –> 00:16:03,600
Yeah.
And that, you know, that, that’s

256
00:16:03,600 –> 00:16:09,000
a thing that might sound
unrealistic to if a particularly

257
00:16:09,000 –> 00:16:14,100
skeptical listener, but that’s
actually a pretty common tactic,

258
00:16:14,100 –> 00:16:17,700
especially in Russia, I think
they called That compromise

259
00:16:17,700 –> 00:16:20,800
where you just gather as much
compromising information as you

260
00:16:20,800 –> 00:16:25,200
can about people that you might
need blackmail at some point.

261
00:16:25,300 –> 00:16:30,600
So it wouldn’t, it wouldn’t
surprise me at all, if that was

262
00:16:30,600 –> 00:16:33,600
what was going on with Jeffrey
Epstein.

263
00:16:33,800 –> 00:16:39,300
Yeah, I talked about this on
another podcast recently but

264
00:16:39,300 –> 00:16:44,400
Jeffrey Epstein, to me seems
like an absolute horrific

265
00:16:44,400 –> 00:16:48,300
monster who we should be.
Acting with every asset we have

266
00:16:48,300 –> 00:16:51,900
right now.
Because if he dies in prison

267
00:16:51,900 –> 00:16:56,300
without us knowing everything,
he knows that will just be an

268
00:16:56,300 –> 00:17:01,000
extra tragedy on top of all the
tragedies, he’s been responsible

269
00:17:01,000 –> 00:17:02,500
for.
Yeah.

270
00:17:02,800 –> 00:17:06,599
And he and the word and details
about some of what he was doing.

271
00:17:06,599 –> 00:17:10,000
Are coming up more and more.
But, you know, I have in my book

272
00:17:10,000 –> 00:17:14,200
that Courtney Love was using
Rohypnol, you know, or roofies

273
00:17:14,500 –> 00:17:18,000
she used it against Kurt Cobain
when He went to a coma a month

274
00:17:18,000 –> 00:17:23,599
before he died, and so it’s
believed that the same thing was

275
00:17:23,599 –> 00:17:28,300
being used as Epstein’s parties
is both the people that attended

276
00:17:28,300 –> 00:17:31,500
the parties and the women, you
know, younger and younger women.

277
00:17:31,500 –> 00:17:34,200
Oh wow.
Being drugged and in roofied.

278
00:17:34,200 –> 00:17:36,000
And that’s part of how they
accomplish, what they

279
00:17:36,008 –> 00:17:38,300
accomplished two, and they would
start with older women.

280
00:17:38,300 –> 00:17:40,600
Make it look like a normal
party, and then bringing younger

281
00:17:40,600 –> 00:17:43,900
and younger women till they got
to these kids being in there,

282
00:17:43,900 –> 00:17:45,600
you know.
And so that’s some of the way it

283
00:17:45,600 –> 00:17:46,400
was done.
Wow.

284
00:17:46,900 –> 00:17:52,600
That is insane with.
I think this kind of ties into

285
00:17:52,600 –> 00:17:54,700
what we’re talking about right
now.

286
00:17:54,700 –> 00:17:59,700
As far as the all of the
information about Epstein ever

287
00:17:59,700 –> 00:18:03,900
coming out at some point, do you
think to get back to more of

288
00:18:03,900 –> 00:18:07,200
what’s in your book?
Do you think it’s even realistic

289
00:18:07,200 –> 00:18:12,700
at this point to expect that the
murder of Tupac Shakur or

290
00:18:12,800 –> 00:18:17,300
Notorious BIG will ever be
solved like What would happen

291
00:18:17,300 –> 00:18:20,700
have to happen before we see
something like that?

292
00:18:20,700 –> 00:18:25,500
Yeah, well, you know, we’re I
think, just Independent Media

293
00:18:25,500 –> 00:18:29,500
groups are pushing, pushing the
mainstream media groups, more

294
00:18:29,500 –> 00:18:32,100
and more to let more and more
information out.

295
00:18:32,100 –> 00:18:35,600
And that’s why they finally
actually gave, you know, in this

296
00:18:35,600 –> 00:18:40,200
unsolved, you know, series, they
had that they made so popular.

297
00:18:40,500 –> 00:18:44,000
They gave Russell Poole more,
Alia more credit than they would

298
00:18:44,000 –> 00:18:49,100
ever give them before that.
But, you know, basically Russell

299
00:18:49,100 –> 00:18:53,500
Poole did the definitive
investigation on that in terms

300
00:18:53,500 –> 00:18:56,200
of just finding his fellow
police officers at all levels of

301
00:18:56,200 –> 00:19:00,100
Death, Row Records, you know,
involved in the murder of Tupac

302
00:19:00,100 –> 00:19:02,800
and Biggie, but it gives a
little more collateral damage

303
00:19:02,800 –> 00:19:06,200
was really, Tupac was the
national political activist and

304
00:19:06,200 –> 00:19:10,500
Target right on the?
Yeah, I know, I don’t think you

305
00:19:10,800 –> 00:19:14,900
will ever really come out and,
you know, fully be accepted but

306
00:19:14,900 –> 00:19:18,800
in the Aeneid documentary that I
was involved in that I appeared

307
00:19:18,800 –> 00:19:21,800
in you know the they ended with
the with Al Sharpton’s

308
00:19:21,800 –> 00:19:27,000
conclusion him saying that when
people you know, Buck Authority

309
00:19:27,000 –> 00:19:33,600
and basically offer, you know, a
radical left-wing opinion and

310
00:19:33,600 –> 00:19:37,300
and our infant, you know.
So influential as Tupac was

311
00:19:37,300 –> 00:19:40,700
Authority, does away with them.
I mean that’s basically what he

312
00:19:40,700 –> 00:19:44,600
said and in the last like, men
or two of that documentary and

313
00:19:44,600 –> 00:19:47,000
that’s what they concluded with.
And, you know, He’s basically

314
00:19:47,000 –> 00:19:49,500
was saying that, yes, the
authorities killed Tupac,

315
00:19:49,500 –> 00:19:53,000
because his voice was getting
too big and he was to, you know,

316
00:19:53,000 –> 00:19:57,200
to activists and to, against the
conservative authorities.

317
00:19:57,200 –> 00:20:00,600
So, yeah, that’s come out more
that way, right?

318
00:20:00,600 –> 00:20:07,500
And I feel like the we know what
the FBI did in relation to the

319
00:20:07,500 –> 00:20:09,900
Black Panthers like that has all
come out?

320
00:20:09,900 –> 00:20:15,300
So I feel like people who
discredit, the idea that maybe

321
00:20:15,300 –> 00:20:17,800
the government was involved,
Evolved in what happened to

322
00:20:17,800 –> 00:20:19,800
Tupac.
Also, I feel like you Blackie

323
00:20:19,800 –> 00:20:21,700
was hit.
He was yeah, he was head of the

324
00:20:21,700 –> 00:20:24,700
new African Panthers right
before he became a rapper and

325
00:20:24,700 –> 00:20:27,700
they were involved in, they were
active in eight to ten cities.

326
00:20:27,700 –> 00:20:30,300
So he was already a national
black leader before he became a

327
00:20:30,300 –> 00:20:34,200
rapper and, you know, and so
adding that wealth and fame to

328
00:20:34,200 –> 00:20:36,800
his, you know, National activist
leadership.

329
00:20:36,900 –> 00:20:39,200
It was obvious that they were
going to Target him.

330
00:20:39,300 –> 00:20:44,500
And the there is a interview
that I always Point people to

331
00:20:44,500 –> 00:20:48,600
that I think is still on Amazon.
It was an interview with Tupac

332
00:20:48,700 –> 00:20:53,200
in prison right before he signed
with Death Row Records and the

333
00:20:53,200 –> 00:20:56,300
things he says in that interview
like that watching that

334
00:20:56,300 –> 00:20:59,800
interview was maybe the first
time when I really was hit with

335
00:20:59,800 –> 00:21:02,100
this feeling of.
Oh yeah, the government killed

336
00:21:02,100 –> 00:21:05,300
him because the things he says
in that interview are exactly

337
00:21:05,300 –> 00:21:09,200
the things, the Black Panthers
were doing and saying that led

338
00:21:09,200 –> 00:21:13,400
to the government intervening in
that Affair to put it mildly,

339
00:21:13,500 –> 00:21:17,600
right and people any Skeptics.
Out there should realize that

340
00:21:17,600 –> 00:21:22,100
this comes from the FBI
documents outline, the

341
00:21:22,100 –> 00:21:26,200
counterintelligence program and
activists in, you know, white

342
00:21:26,200 –> 00:21:30,500
activists in be basically broke
into an FBI office at night and

343
00:21:30,500 –> 00:21:32,700
stole all the documents.
And that’s how we found out

344
00:21:32,700 –> 00:21:35,200
about that guy’s
counterintelligence program and

345
00:21:35,200 –> 00:21:37,900
they were targeting leftist in
general, but particularly black

346
00:21:37,900 –> 00:21:40,300
leftist and they were
murderously targeting them,

347
00:21:40,300 –> 00:21:44,900
that’s in the documents.
And so, and was he swearing-in?

348
00:21:44,900 –> 00:21:50,700
Was it part of the Los Angeles,
FBI cointelpro and he said that,

349
00:21:50,700 –> 00:21:55,000
you know, he knows that the echo
until Pro continued just under

350
00:21:55,000 –> 00:21:58,700
different names at least until
the the 1990s.

351
00:21:58,900 –> 00:22:02,300
And so it’s, you know, it’s
pretty obvious that there’s

352
00:22:02,300 –> 00:22:05,300
tactics were going to be used
again, the 1990s against black

353
00:22:05,300 –> 00:22:07,300
leadership.
It’s clear cut to me.

354
00:22:07,400 –> 00:22:09,600
Yeah, I would, I would agree
with that.

355
00:22:09,600 –> 00:22:14,900
Do you think what happened to
Tupac and Notorious BIG?

356
00:22:15,000 –> 00:22:18,300
At least a the Details of how
they were murdered.

357
00:22:18,300 –> 00:22:20,600
Could that happen today with
everyone?

358
00:22:20,600 –> 00:22:23,200
Having a phone attached to their
hand?

359
00:22:23,300 –> 00:22:26,400
Oh yeah, definitely just because
of the fact, we look at, look at

360
00:22:26,408 –> 00:22:28,300
Nipsey Hussle, what happened to
him?

361
00:22:28,300 –> 00:22:30,800
I mean, whether it’s called on
somewhere, not what they do is

362
00:22:30,800 –> 00:22:33,600
they grab the film, and then
They confiscated and they keep

363
00:22:33,600 –> 00:22:35,700
it.
And you’d have to not only have

364
00:22:35,700 –> 00:22:38,300
the phone in your hand, but you
also have to have it attached to

365
00:22:38,300 –> 00:22:41,900
the internet or I’ll see, you
know, they did that too with

366
00:22:42,100 –> 00:22:45,700
Eric Garner’s.
Murder his friend.

367
00:22:46,500 –> 00:22:51,000
Courted his murder and then they
put his friend in jail for

368
00:22:51,000 –> 00:22:54,600
recording that murder, you know,
even I’ve got out there, his

369
00:22:54,600 –> 00:22:58,400
friend was jailed for a
recording it and, you know, and

370
00:22:58,400 –> 00:23:02,100
and you know, like that police
officer who was the most, you

371
00:23:02,100 –> 00:23:04,900
know, involved in choke him to
death.

372
00:23:05,200 –> 00:23:08,100
It still hasn’t even been fired
from the force, much less, you

373
00:23:08,100 –> 00:23:12,200
know, convicted of murder.
So yeah, I always, I always tell

374
00:23:12,200 –> 00:23:16,200
people, police killings are a
good place to start, if you

375
00:23:16,400 –> 00:23:20,100
Think conspiracies, never happen
because that’s really all a

376
00:23:20,100 –> 00:23:23,700
cover-up is, it’s like a
conspiracy is just another name

377
00:23:23,700 –> 00:23:26,100
for a cover-up basically, right?
Right.

378
00:23:26,200 –> 00:23:29,700
And we see it all the time with
police killings.

379
00:23:29,700 –> 00:23:32,900
We’re in a lot of cases, you
know, the video won’t come out

380
00:23:32,900 –> 00:23:35,200
for a few more months and then
we find out, oh, you’ve been

381
00:23:35,200 –> 00:23:36,700
lying about this that whole
time.

382
00:23:36,700 –> 00:23:39,600
Well, that’s, that’s a
conspiracy and it’s not, it’s

383
00:23:39,600 –> 00:23:42,500
not as rare as people make it
out.

384
00:23:42,500 –> 00:23:46,300
To be you mentioned, go ahead.
I just guessed.

385
00:23:46,700 –> 00:23:47,900
The idea.
I mean, yeah.

386
00:23:47,900 –> 00:23:51,500
The whole the word conspiracy
being associated with your

387
00:23:51,500 –> 00:23:55,200
rationale is just a mainstream
media.

388
00:23:55,400 –> 00:23:58,600
The oligarchs use our mainstream
media for the to trick people

389
00:23:58,600 –> 00:24:03,200
into thinking that, you know,
anyone who even has a hint of

390
00:24:03,208 –> 00:24:07,400
conspiracy is irrational, but
people conspire every day to do

391
00:24:07,400 –> 00:24:10,400
things behind the scenes.
It’s just, you know, normal?

392
00:24:10,600 –> 00:24:12,300
Yeah, it’s just a rhetorical
trick.

393
00:24:12,300 –> 00:24:14,900
They use against us.
Yeah, that was actually going to

394
00:24:14,908 –> 00:24:20,500
be my next Question is the
negative connotation around the

395
00:24:20,500 –> 00:24:23,600
term conspiracy theory or
conspiracy theorist?

396
00:24:23,600 –> 00:24:28,300
Do you think that was a, an
actual effort on the part of the

397
00:24:28,300 –> 00:24:30,400
government to, to make that
happen?

398
00:24:30,400 –> 00:24:32,900
Or do you think it just kind of
happened naturally?

399
00:24:33,100 –> 00:24:36,300
No, that was, that was, I’ve
read articles that explored,

400
00:24:36,300 –> 00:24:39,400
that and history of that, and
the way us intelligence use

401
00:24:39,400 –> 00:24:43,800
that, it was a concerted effort.
Yeah, that’s always always been

402
00:24:44,400 –> 00:24:49,300
kind of my feeling on it also.
Like I know we did an episode

403
00:24:49,300 –> 00:24:55,600
about Alex Jones at one point
and when Alex Jones first

404
00:24:55,600 –> 00:25:00,500
started making the rounds, there
were other conspiracy theorists

405
00:25:00,500 –> 00:25:04,400
at the time.
Namely William Cooper, who was

406
00:25:04,400 –> 00:25:06,900
like?
That guy’s probably just here to

407
00:25:06,900 –> 00:25:10,200
discredit us and make everyone
else look kind of silly.

408
00:25:10,200 –> 00:25:17,000
And I kind of I’ve always kind
of imagined that at One point in

409
00:25:17,000 –> 00:25:20,900
the early 90s, the government
had this decision to make with

410
00:25:20,900 –> 00:25:24,400
the internet coming out, where
it’s going to be a way that a

411
00:25:24,400 –> 00:25:27,300
lot of information is going to
reach people.

412
00:25:27,500 –> 00:25:31,300
So do we tackle every piece of
information that comes out

413
00:25:31,300 –> 00:25:35,300
individually or do we just get
ahead of it and discredit the

414
00:25:35,300 –> 00:25:38,200
idea of questioning the
government as a whole and I feel

415
00:25:38,200 –> 00:25:41,600
like they went with that second
option and it seems like it

416
00:25:41,600 –> 00:25:47,000
worked pretty well crazy.
I’m just very against Their ship

417
00:25:47,000 –> 00:25:50,300
and I don’t even know much about
Alex Jones.

418
00:25:50,300 –> 00:25:53,700
All I know is his info wars and
other people that work for him

419
00:25:53,800 –> 00:25:59,000
interviewed me twice, and the
first time, the it got, you

420
00:25:59,008 –> 00:26:03,800
know, the first interview got
about 750,000 views before I was

421
00:26:03,800 –> 00:26:08,500
taken off the air but the second
interview got up to about 25,000

422
00:26:08,500 –> 00:26:11,600
views and just maybe they or 23
or something.

423
00:26:11,600 –> 00:26:14,300
I was just great fast and maybe
a week or whatever it was and

424
00:26:14,300 –> 00:26:15,900
all of a sudden was frozen, the
views.

425
00:26:16,300 –> 00:26:19,700
The number of Youth was frozen
and never surpassed that after

426
00:26:19,700 –> 00:26:21,400
that.
I don’t know why my know how

427
00:26:21,400 –> 00:26:24,200
that works.
Wow that, but yeah, they do this

428
00:26:24,200 –> 00:26:26,700
thing’s.
So I mean, I mean yeah I don’t

429
00:26:26,700 –> 00:26:29,700
really again, I don’t even know.
All about Jones is to use except

430
00:26:29,700 –> 00:26:34,300
for he’s you know believes 9/11
was a false flag and you know

431
00:26:34,300 –> 00:26:36,100
who doesn’t really these days.
Yeah.

432
00:26:36,100 –> 00:26:40,200
That there was corruption around
9/11 but besides that I mean

433
00:26:40,200 –> 00:26:43,200
that was view so I can’t give me
a comment if he’s

434
00:26:43,200 –> 00:26:44,800
antigovernment.
I don’t think that’s a good

435
00:26:44,800 –> 00:26:46,200
enough reason to censor him, you
know.

436
00:26:46,300 –> 00:26:51,100
Oh yeah for sure.
Yeah you mentioned Nipsey Hussle

437
00:26:51,100 –> 00:26:55,700
earlier there have been since
you wrote this book, a couple of

438
00:26:55,700 –> 00:26:58,500
kind of high-profile deaths of
rappers.

439
00:26:58,500 –> 00:27:00,500
There was Nipsey Hussle and
extant.

440
00:27:00,500 –> 00:27:06,200
Asean both, which I was shocked
that someone was arrested right

441
00:27:06,200 –> 00:27:11,000
away in both of those cases.
That is a unique characteristic

442
00:27:11,000 –> 00:27:16,000
for rap murders for sure.
But do you think especially in

443
00:27:16,000 –> 00:27:18,100
the case of That Nipsey Hussle.
Do you think the?

444
00:27:18,100 –> 00:27:22,700
It’s a because he was a very
outspoken activist?

445
00:27:23,200 –> 00:27:27,000
Do you think there is something
more going on with his death?

446
00:27:27,000 –> 00:27:30,400
And what we’ve been told?
I do I have heard about some of

447
00:27:30,400 –> 00:27:34,300
his activism and and I do think
there is probably more there

448
00:27:34,300 –> 00:27:38,300
than we’ve been told and I
researched a little bit but I

449
00:27:38,308 –> 00:27:41,200
just can’t say I researched
enough it to really be

450
00:27:41,200 –> 00:27:44,100
definitive because I haven’t
seen a good enough sources and

451
00:27:44,100 –> 00:27:48,100
some sources that I just Can’t
really confirm.

452
00:27:48,100 –> 00:27:51,400
Did say that heat that Nipsey,
that the shooter of Nipsey

453
00:27:51,400 –> 00:27:55,600
Hussle, said he was paid tens of
thousands of dollars by a police

454
00:27:56,600 –> 00:27:59,700
officer to kill hustle.
So and he was promised that he

455
00:27:59,700 –> 00:28:02,200
would not be convicted of it and
if he did that.

456
00:28:02,200 –> 00:28:05,000
And so but that’s again, it’s
like not the swear.

457
00:28:05,000 –> 00:28:06,900
I can’t see the sources for so
good for that.

458
00:28:06,900 –> 00:28:10,400
So I don’t know if it’s true but
and there’s enough like other

459
00:28:10,400 –> 00:28:14,600
factors around it you know the a
his activism that make me think

460
00:28:14,600 –> 00:28:17,500
that it was probably in like
Line with the other, you know,

461
00:28:17,500 –> 00:28:20,800
rap murders.
And again, let me just say that

462
00:28:21,500 –> 00:28:24,400
this case with Tupac, people
have to understand that the

463
00:28:24,400 –> 00:28:27,800
situation with Tupac, it was
covered by a mainstream

464
00:28:27,800 –> 00:28:30,700
journalists in Randall solve and
they wrote the book Labyrinth,

465
00:28:30,700 –> 00:28:33,500
who probably wrote The
Definitive book, one Russell

466
00:28:33,500 –> 00:28:37,800
Poole when his investigation
into it and defined as fellow

467
00:28:37,800 –> 00:28:39,900
police officers.
You know, he thinks believes

468
00:28:39,900 –> 00:28:43,400
killed Tupac and so, you know,
then Nick Broomfield did did a

469
00:28:43,408 –> 00:28:47,900
good movie called The Big E and
Tupac about Also, but Randall

470
00:28:47,900 –> 00:28:54,100
Sullivan’s, book, Labyrinth
three, top, you know, groups and

471
00:28:54,100 –> 00:28:56,900
Hollywood tried to make movies
out of that first.

472
00:28:56,900 –> 00:29:00,600
It first, it was Sylvester,
Stallone d’you know.

473
00:29:00,600 –> 00:29:02,600
It was announced that he was
making a movie where he was

474
00:29:02,600 –> 00:29:05,500
going to play Russell Poole, and
that was the end up being

475
00:29:05,500 –> 00:29:10,600
stymied and then Dreamworks
Dreamworks had learnt Leonardo

476
00:29:10,600 –> 00:29:13,800
DiCaprio.
Playing Russell Poole that went

477
00:29:13,800 –> 00:29:16,100
very far, was almost, you know,
about to come out.

478
00:29:16,300 –> 00:29:19,500
Out.
And then powerful forces, stop

479
00:29:19,500 –> 00:29:22,800
that project.
And finally, you had Johnny Depp

480
00:29:22,800 –> 00:29:25,800
playing Russell Poole.
I saw the previews in the

481
00:29:25,800 –> 00:29:28,100
theaters and in by three
different theaters.

482
00:29:28,100 –> 00:29:31,800
This, you know, last summer and
they stopped at the last minute

483
00:29:31,800 –> 00:29:34,300
before it came out.
Oh, that’s incredible.

484
00:29:34,300 –> 00:29:35,700
I they could do that.
Yeah.

485
00:29:35,700 –> 00:29:41,200
And so yeah, this is like, just
some of the, the power behind

486
00:29:41,200 –> 00:29:43,900
stopping the truth about Tupac
from coming out.

487
00:29:44,000 –> 00:29:47,600
Yeah.
And that that seems like Such an

488
00:29:47,600 –> 00:29:49,800
obvious that that was actually
going to be.

489
00:29:49,800 –> 00:29:54,700
My next question is, what are
some of the Tell-Tale signs?

490
00:29:54,700 –> 00:29:59,100
A person can look for to know
that you’re being lied to, in

491
00:29:59,100 –> 00:30:03,400
the story isn’t what everyone is
making it out to be.

492
00:30:03,400 –> 00:30:06,700
I think that movie being killed
three times is a good example,

493
00:30:06,700 –> 00:30:10,800
but what are some other other
Clues you can look for to let

494
00:30:10,800 –> 00:30:13,100
you know you should be
investigating the story.

495
00:30:13,100 –> 00:30:14,400
A little more?
Yeah.

496
00:30:14,400 –> 00:30:17,800
I mean some of it is the fact
that That in the very beginning

497
00:30:17,800 –> 00:30:20,600
of it, of an incident.
Like when instant first happens,

498
00:30:20,600 –> 00:30:24,400
you’ll see evidence of what
might have really happened in

499
00:30:24,400 –> 00:30:27,800
beginning in different media
sources and then all of a sudden

500
00:30:27,800 –> 00:30:31,400
you won’t see those those pieces
of evidence repeated ever again,

501
00:30:31,400 –> 00:30:34,300
as if they never happened, as if
they were never even said, even

502
00:30:34,300 –> 00:30:36,700
by the same Source, you know,
like, the New York Times might

503
00:30:36,700 –> 00:30:38,800
come out with something in the
very beginning, or the

504
00:30:38,800 –> 00:30:41,800
Washington Post, for example,
with when Tupac was shot in the

505
00:30:41,800 –> 00:30:46,100
Newark recording studio Lobby,
in 1994 before he was killed,

506
00:30:46,800 –> 00:30:51,600
The they said in this in a
strange twist to this already

507
00:30:51,600 –> 00:30:55,500
strange trial of Tupac for
supposed sexual assault the same

508
00:30:55,500 –> 00:30:58,400
police officers.
That first arrived at his, you

509
00:30:58,400 –> 00:31:01,100
know, it at the sexual-assault,
seen a year before in a

510
00:31:01,108 –> 00:31:05,200
different part of New York City,
the first to arrive in Times

511
00:31:05,200 –> 00:31:10,600
Square when he was shot and and
so the Washington Post, never

512
00:31:10,600 –> 00:31:13,000
repeat that again as far as I
could tell and I because I was

513
00:31:13,000 –> 00:31:15,900
living in Washington to time and
reading and regularly and so

514
00:31:15,900 –> 00:31:19,400
it’s This is this kinds of ways
that they first come and someone

515
00:31:19,400 –> 00:31:22,300
comes out with something, not
realizing, you know, how, how

516
00:31:22,300 –> 00:31:25,100
much he’s revealing those
editors say, you know, we’re not

517
00:31:25,100 –> 00:31:27,800
allowed to repeat these things.
Again, it’s what just, what

518
00:31:27,800 –> 00:31:30,100
happens, you know?
And so you can see that in most

519
00:31:30,100 –> 00:31:33,200
of the papers were in the very
beginning, you’ll see some Clues

520
00:31:33,200 –> 00:31:36,700
and some good evidence and then
the papers act like they never

521
00:31:36,700 –> 00:31:39,600
said that before and you never
repeated again, you know?

522
00:31:39,600 –> 00:31:44,500
So yeah that was the very first
episode of this podcast that we

523
00:31:44,500 –> 00:31:49,200
did was about the Oklahoma.
City Bombing and that was a

524
00:31:49,400 –> 00:31:53,600
weird detail of that case where
there’s all these news reports

525
00:31:53,800 –> 00:31:57,000
from the day.
It happened saying the ATF is

526
00:31:57,000 –> 00:32:00,000
inside the building dismantling
a second bomb.

527
00:32:00,100 –> 00:32:05,100
That was found and then that’s
just not part of the record

528
00:32:05,100 –> 00:32:07,300
anymore but those stories.
Yeah.

529
00:32:07,400 –> 00:32:10,500
The the coverage is still out
there and it kind of blows my

530
00:32:10,500 –> 00:32:14,600
mind that the, the explanation
we take in situations, like that

531
00:32:14,600 –> 00:32:16,300
is just oh, well, we were wrong.
Yeah.

532
00:32:16,300 –> 00:32:20,100
And it’s like, okay but why were
you so, why would you, why were

533
00:32:20,100 –> 00:32:23,400
you wrong about something like
that and if you were wrong,

534
00:32:23,400 –> 00:32:26,600
where did you get it from right?
It’s such a clear.

535
00:32:26,800 –> 00:32:30,700
Observation you know ATF said we
were doing this and know we were

536
00:32:30,700 –> 00:32:32,900
wrong that the ATF said we were
doing this, why would they lie

537
00:32:32,900 –> 00:32:35,400
about that?
You know, it’s just so clear cut

538
00:32:35,400 –> 00:32:38,500
you know it’s absurd.
The way they can do that.

539
00:32:38,500 –> 00:32:41,400
They can just pretend like oh we
were wrong but why when you’re

540
00:32:41,400 –> 00:32:44,500
why were you so wrong the first
time you know right?

541
00:32:44,500 –> 00:32:48,200
Yeah.
Let’s sort of switch gears here.

542
00:32:49,000 –> 00:32:53,500
It seems like since at least
9/11 or at least this is the

543
00:32:53,500 –> 00:32:56,000
impression.
I’ve always gotten that there’s

544
00:32:56,000 –> 00:33:00,800
been kind of in adversarial
relationship between the CIA and

545
00:33:00,800 –> 00:33:04,200
the FBI does that, would you
agree with that?

546
00:33:04,200 –> 00:33:07,600
Do you think that’s a thing?
And if so does it play into

547
00:33:07,600 –> 00:33:09,900
what’s happening in the country
now at all.

548
00:33:10,100 –> 00:33:13,200
Yeah, I think that’s a theater.
I think there’s there might be,

549
00:33:13,200 –> 00:33:16,100
you know, whistle blowing agents
and FBI like Colleen.

550
00:33:16,200 –> 00:33:21,300
Rally, who might be adversarial
towards the CIA because she

551
00:33:21,400 –> 00:33:24,700
tried to reveal some things.
She found out that my make the

552
00:33:24,700 –> 00:33:29,500
CIA look bad, but basically us
intelligence has a pretty

553
00:33:29,500 –> 00:33:33,900
clear-cut hierarchy.
And, you know, jig or Hoover’s

554
00:33:33,900 –> 00:33:38,700
even being quoted as saying, you
know, when it comes to CIA, I

555
00:33:38,700 –> 00:33:41,800
you know I can’t do much, you
know, I can’t, you know, he they

556
00:33:41,800 –> 00:33:44,100
have the power.
Well, I’m it’s the hierarchies

557
00:33:44,100 –> 00:33:48,800
there, you know, it’s in the NS.
That’s Security Act of 1947 that

558
00:33:48,800 –> 00:33:52,000
the CIA director is the
supervisor of all the other

559
00:33:52,200 –> 00:33:55,600
intelligence directors.
And people say, oh, that’s just

560
00:33:55,600 –> 00:33:58,100
for show, it’s not.
It’s the way it seems to work

561
00:33:58,100 –> 00:34:00,500
down there.
Maybe, maybe Naval intelligence

562
00:34:00,500 –> 00:34:02,600
by have a little more power.
These days, who knows?

563
00:34:02,600 –> 00:34:06,200
But basically, the sept 17, it
was just in the newspapers.

564
00:34:06,200 –> 00:34:09,900
The other day that there were 17
different intelligence, you

565
00:34:09,900 –> 00:34:16,000
know, agencies and so there’s
this, they do work together.

566
00:34:16,199 –> 00:34:20,400
Either one, so many operations
and the cover-up so much.

567
00:34:20,400 –> 00:34:23,699
And that’s why we have Perpetual
War like the oligarchs one.

568
00:34:23,900 –> 00:34:27,699
And often those Perpetual Wars
are for resources such as opium

569
00:34:27,699 –> 00:34:31,800
fields of Afghanistan or the
cocaine, you know, Eric grown.

570
00:34:31,800 –> 00:34:35,300
Best cocaine growing areas down,
Latin America and they’re just

571
00:34:35,400 –> 00:34:38,199
so you know and course the oil
fields and those are some of the

572
00:34:38,199 –> 00:34:41,300
reasons you know for our Wars.
So right?

573
00:34:41,800 –> 00:34:47,800
Yeah it when it when it comes to
Skeptics we’ve sort of talked

574
00:34:47,800 –> 00:34:51,900
about this already but when it
comes to a person who is just

575
00:34:51,900 –> 00:34:55,900
skeptical of the idea of
conspiracy theories in general,

576
00:34:56,000 –> 00:35:01,900
is there one particular case
that you would point a person to

577
00:35:02,300 –> 00:35:05,700
as kind of a primer on?
Well, we know this happened.

578
00:35:05,700 –> 00:35:09,600
So why would you put other
things past the government?

579
00:35:09,600 –> 00:35:12,600
For me, it’s MKUltra.
That’s I think why, I’m so into

580
00:35:12,600 –> 00:35:16,100
this book because that was, that
was a thing.

581
00:35:16,200 –> 00:35:20,100
Are you know we came out and it
first after everyone shredded,

582
00:35:20,100 –> 00:35:23,500
all their documents, after
Watergate the government kind of

583
00:35:23,500 –> 00:35:28,100
acknowledges MKUltra was a thing
but downplays how big it was.

584
00:35:28,400 –> 00:35:32,000
And then we find these 20,000
other documents that were stored

585
00:35:32,000 –> 00:35:34,400
in the wrong place and they have
to come out and go.

586
00:35:34,400 –> 00:35:35,800
All right?
Yeah, you got us it was pretty

587
00:35:35,800 –> 00:35:38,400
big.
So that’s one thing, I always

588
00:35:38,400 –> 00:35:41,500
point to point people.
To as proof that yes, these

589
00:35:41,500 –> 00:35:43,900
things do happen.
Is there any anything along

590
00:35:43,900 –> 00:35:46,100
those lines?
The that you would also.

591
00:35:46,200 –> 00:35:49,300
Direct people to yeah, I don’t
know which you know what, I

592
00:35:49,308 –> 00:35:52,500
would direct people towards in
particular because I mean, part

593
00:35:52,500 –> 00:35:54,600
of me, would say, the JFK
assassination.

594
00:35:54,600 –> 00:35:58,000
The problem is is that
mainstream media.

595
00:35:58,000 –> 00:36:02,500
So muddled all this, you know,
all so much evidence that you

596
00:36:02,500 –> 00:36:05,900
know, about JFK’s assassination
that it’s just hard.

597
00:36:05,900 –> 00:36:08,200
Yeah, it’s hard to know.
I mean, I’m glad I’m glad you

598
00:36:08,200 –> 00:36:10,900
think.
MKUltra is what you point people

599
00:36:10,900 –> 00:36:12,400
to.
I think it is incredibly

600
00:36:12,400 –> 00:36:16,000
important I think the it was a
senate committee report on.

601
00:36:16,100 –> 00:36:19,400
MK Ultra really outlines so much
of this.

602
00:36:19,600 –> 00:36:24,400
And the problem though is that I
guess, you know.

603
00:36:24,400 –> 00:36:27,200
So few people have seen the
sent, you know, Church

604
00:36:27,200 –> 00:36:32,100
committees report on MKUltra and
you know and it’s still even

605
00:36:32,100 –> 00:36:35,000
that church committee report
stays a little bit abstract and

606
00:36:35,000 –> 00:36:37,800
doesn’t get into all the details
that I get into.

607
00:36:37,800 –> 00:36:43,000
And, you know, even the, you
know, the documents that were

608
00:36:43,000 –> 00:36:46,000
found is about 30,000 documents
that were found on them.

609
00:36:46,100 –> 00:36:49,700
I would try, but the people that
have read through all those

610
00:36:49,700 –> 00:36:52,000
documents are people like Martin
Lee.

611
00:36:52,000 –> 00:36:54,800
You found the fairness and
accuracy in reporting, who wrote

612
00:36:54,800 –> 00:36:58,500
the book acid dreams, which is,
you know, think one of the best

613
00:36:58,500 –> 00:37:03,500
books, one just the lsds part of
MKUltra right but he said that

614
00:37:03,500 –> 00:37:08,300
that based on the documents that
he went over and his co-author

615
00:37:08,300 –> 00:37:13,700
went over there appear to be
about 90 90 percent of the

616
00:37:13,700 –> 00:37:16,000
documents are gone and these are
about 10.

617
00:37:16,100 –> 00:37:19,000
Of the documents.
He says it appears to be three

618
00:37:19,000 –> 00:37:21,600
hundred thousand documents and
we got to read about 30 have

619
00:37:21,600 –> 00:37:22,900
30,000 of them.
Yeah, yeah.

620
00:37:22,900 –> 00:37:25,900
So it’s likely that we still
don’t know.

621
00:37:25,900 –> 00:37:30,800
The the whole scope of how big
operation was and it.

622
00:37:30,800 –> 00:37:35,000
Yeah, it seems unlikely to me
that we would pump that much

623
00:37:35,000 –> 00:37:39,100
money and spend so many years
looking into it, if none of it

624
00:37:39,100 –> 00:37:42,900
was working and we were making
no progress at all.

625
00:37:42,900 –> 00:37:46,100
Like it.
It’s it just seems inconceivable

626
00:37:46,200 –> 00:37:52,700
Able to me yet over 20 over 20
years of it running and at least

627
00:37:52,700 –> 00:37:55,700
20 years that was documented by
the church Community Center

628
00:37:55,700 –> 00:37:59,700
search committee and you know
and just so many sub projects

629
00:37:59,700 –> 00:38:04,100
that were they have you know one
file 149 sub-projects.

630
00:38:04,100 –> 00:38:06,800
Yeah yeah yeah.
And it’s so many locations.

631
00:38:06,800 –> 00:38:09,500
So many different parts of the
country and the world.

632
00:38:09,500 –> 00:38:10,400
It was running.
Yeah.

633
00:38:10,600 –> 00:38:15,800
Do you think we’re getting close
to an MK Ultra, Revelation kind

634
00:38:15,800 –> 00:38:19,600
of Moment when it comes to UFOs,
do now, I’m sorry to say I just

635
00:38:19,600 –> 00:38:21,900
don’t know anything about UFOs.
I yeah, okay.

636
00:38:21,900 –> 00:38:24,800
I’ve been interviewed by lot of
people that, you know, talk

637
00:38:24,800 –> 00:38:27,900
about that with UFOs stuff.
The only problem I have is, I

638
00:38:27,908 –> 00:38:32,100
guess is the fact that because
it could involve something

639
00:38:32,100 –> 00:38:35,200
outside of our planet, it’s just
too can be.

640
00:38:35,200 –> 00:38:40,300
So beyond our knowledge that’s
just hard to disprove or prove

641
00:38:40,300 –> 00:38:43,200
and that’s the problem, you
know, when it gets comes to UFO

642
00:38:43,200 –> 00:38:45,400
so I just don’t know, I don’t
research and I don’t know

643
00:38:45,600 –> 00:38:49,400
anything about UFOs and sorry to
say, oh yeah, yeah, I bring it

644
00:38:49,400 –> 00:38:53,800
up because there were there have
been to New York Times articles

645
00:38:53,800 –> 00:38:58,200
in the past.
There was one in 2017, another

646
00:38:58,200 –> 00:39:01,200
one again in May 2000 19 where
there?

647
00:39:02,100 –> 00:39:07,800
I mean it goes into a lot of
detail about this program that

648
00:39:07,800 –> 00:39:12,100
we’ve been funding for years
that was headed by Harry Reid

649
00:39:12,200 –> 00:39:16,000
and Robert Bigelow, who is kind
of on The Cutting Edge?

650
00:39:16,100 –> 00:39:20,100
Edge of space travel in the
United States but also runs the

651
00:39:20,100 –> 00:39:24,200
Budget Suites Motel chain, which
seems alarming to me, but I feel

652
00:39:24,200 –> 00:39:28,300
like that’s the same sort of
thing where these two different

653
00:39:28,300 –> 00:39:31,400
articles made it really clear
that we’ve been putting a lot of

654
00:39:31,400 –> 00:39:35,300
money over the years into
researching, what these two are

655
00:39:35,300 –> 00:39:38,900
working on.
And I feel like that’s always

656
00:39:38,900 –> 00:39:42,600
kind of good evidence that
there’s something there.

657
00:39:42,800 –> 00:39:45,200
Yeah, it definitely could be, I
don’t know, I just don’t know

658
00:39:45,200 –> 00:39:47,200
much about it.
About that.

659
00:39:47,300 –> 00:39:51,400
Oh no problem.
Um, so last question, I’ll let

660
00:39:51,400 –> 00:39:55,000
you get out of here.
This is, this is a heavy one.

661
00:39:56,000 –> 00:40:00,600
Most of your work centers around
covering organizations, that

662
00:40:01,600 –> 00:40:05,100
were accusing of literally
killing people who get in their

663
00:40:05,200 –> 00:40:08,100
way.
Do you, do you or have you ever

664
00:40:08,100 –> 00:40:11,400
felt like your own life was in
danger as a result of covering

665
00:40:11,400 –> 00:40:13,500
the stuff?
Yeah, sure.

666
00:40:13,500 –> 00:40:17,400
I you know, something happened
in my House the other day that

667
00:40:17,400 –> 00:40:19,700
worried me.
So things have happened with my

668
00:40:19,700 –> 00:40:22,700
phone, things happen with my
computer, things happen, with my

669
00:40:22,700 –> 00:40:27,700
mail, there’s been a lot of
things have happened that yeah,

670
00:40:27,700 –> 00:40:32,300
do make me fear for my life and
you know, I started talking with

671
00:40:32,300 –> 00:40:35,700
a another researcher who was
doing so many overlapping with

672
00:40:35,700 –> 00:40:39,500
research is I was doing and he
all of a sudden you know a month

673
00:40:39,500 –> 00:40:43,000
or two before he got warned that
people that do talk about stuff

674
00:40:43,000 –> 00:40:45,600
he talks about could suddenly
find themselves with stage four

675
00:40:45,600 –> 00:40:48,800
cancer, This is David McGowan,
and all of a sudden he gets

676
00:40:48,800 –> 00:40:50,500
diagnosed with stage four,
cancer.

677
00:40:50,500 –> 00:40:54,200
I could week after we had
started talking and Jesus dies,

678
00:40:54,300 –> 00:40:59,600
he dies three to four months
later and so yeah, I’m always

679
00:40:59,600 –> 00:41:00,800
little concerned.
Sure.

680
00:41:00,900 –> 00:41:05,100
Yeah, you know, so you do.
Yeah, it’s keep moving forward,

681
00:41:05,100 –> 00:41:08,100
and try to try to hope for the
best, you know.

682
00:41:08,400 –> 00:41:11,700
Yeah, for sure these days.
There actually is so many

683
00:41:11,700 –> 00:41:13,900
people.
So many people are coming out

684
00:41:13,900 –> 00:41:15,900
from coming at us from so many
different angles.

685
00:41:16,000 –> 00:41:19,900
Goals with so many different,
you know, attempts to uncover

686
00:41:19,900 –> 00:41:22,600
what’s happening with us
intelligence, you know, podcasts

687
00:41:22,600 –> 00:41:27,200
like yours, researchers like
them, just up top my head again.

688
00:41:27,200 –> 00:41:30,700
Donald Jeffries does somewhere.
Researchers me one different.

689
00:41:30,700 –> 00:41:33,200
Other are, you know, kind of
overlapping areas.

690
00:41:33,200 –> 00:41:36,700
There’s just loads of people
attacking this from a lot of

691
00:41:36,707 –> 00:41:39,700
different angles.
So I think that hopefully it’s

692
00:41:39,700 –> 00:41:44,100
diffusing, you know, my, any
importance of my work is that

693
00:41:44,100 –> 00:41:47,500
they don’t think that, you know,
So I don’t get targeted but

694
00:41:47,500 –> 00:41:50,500
we’ll see.
Yeah, I feel like that.

695
00:41:50,500 –> 00:41:56,000
That’s I talk about the the idea
of conspiracy theories in

696
00:41:56,000 –> 00:42:00,700
general being, just discredited
across the board and I bring it

697
00:42:00,700 –> 00:42:05,900
up so much because I feel like
that’s sort of what we need to

698
00:42:05,900 –> 00:42:09,300
make reporting on things like
this safer.

699
00:42:09,400 –> 00:42:14,000
For people, is there needs to be
a general shift in Consciousness

700
00:42:14,200 –> 00:42:17,300
toward the idea.
Toward the items like it’s

701
00:42:17,300 –> 00:42:18,600
happening.
No degree.

702
00:42:18,600 –> 00:42:19,300
Yeah.
Yeah.

703
00:42:19,300 –> 00:42:24,400
And I think I think as opposed
to calling conspiracy theorists

704
00:42:24,400 –> 00:42:26,800
crazy people.
I feel like we’re at a point in

705
00:42:26,800 –> 00:42:30,000
history where we should more be
in a Perpetual state of

706
00:42:30,000 –> 00:42:33,100
questioning the government and
what they’re doing, like

707
00:42:33,100 –> 00:42:36,200
everything that comes out.
We should have a few questions.

708
00:42:36,300 –> 00:42:39,800
And yeah, I really agree with
you and I think I think with the

709
00:42:39,800 –> 00:42:45,200
new technologies in terms of all
the like new film and television

710
00:42:45,200 –> 00:42:49,800
kind of group, Send, you know,
Amazon’s a weird mixed bag.

711
00:42:49,800 –> 00:42:52,200
I mean, I know they’re you know,
they do a lot.

712
00:42:52,200 –> 00:42:54,700
They’re loud bad things by
Amazon but they bought out

713
00:42:54,700 –> 00:42:58,600
Washington Post and all of a
sudden have an article from one

714
00:42:58,600 –> 00:43:01,600
of my sources about, you know
who really killed Robert

715
00:43:01,600 –> 00:43:04,900
Kennedy.
And he was actually wearing

716
00:43:04,900 –> 00:43:07,900
extremely far that article went
as far as my book, did about,

717
00:43:07,900 –> 00:43:09,200
who really killed, Robert
Kennedy.

718
00:43:09,200 –> 00:43:13,800
So it’s it is things seem to be
breaking a bit now, so, I think

719
00:43:13,800 –> 00:43:15,100
there’s hope.
Yeah.

720
00:43:15,200 –> 00:43:20,400
I I certainly hope so and I
appreciate you talking to us

721
00:43:20,400 –> 00:43:22,000
today.
I appreciate the work you’re

722
00:43:22,000 –> 00:43:24,300
doing and here with a flat
family.

723
00:43:24,300 –> 00:43:25,200
One that.
Yeah.

724
00:43:25,200 –> 00:43:27,000
Keep at it, man.
And be safe.

725
00:43:27,100 –> 00:43:28,500
You do the same.
Take care now.

726
00:43:28,500 –> 00:43:30,500
All right.
Thank you talk to you like Andy.

727
00:43:30,600 –> 00:43:31,300
Yep.
Bye.

728
00:43:38,300 –> 00:43:41,900
All right, I told you it was
going to be interesting again if

729
00:43:41,900 –> 00:43:48,200
you want to see a couple more
sources speculating on the idea

730
00:43:48,200 –> 00:43:51,600
that maybe Jeffrey Epstein was
just running a big blackmailing

731
00:43:51,600 –> 00:43:54,700
ring for who we have no fucking
idea.

732
00:43:54,800 –> 00:43:58,400
Check out on pops.com, we linked
to a few sources there.

733
00:43:58,700 –> 00:44:03,300
Check out John’s book drugs As
Weapons against us and the

734
00:44:03,300 –> 00:44:06,300
accompanying documentary.
We linked to both of those on

735
00:44:06,300 –> 00:44:09,300
the website and Thanks
everybody.

736
00:44:09,500 –> 00:44:11,600
That’s an episode.
We love you.