Adam and Olivia delve into the tragic and controversial life and history of American journalist Gary Webb, whose reporting on CIA connections to drug smuggling cost him his career and eventually his life.
Show notes: https://unpops.co/3yIDDW4
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Hey everybody.
This is Adam question, do you
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person?
Well, if you’re in the New York
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City area, covid willing, you’ll
have a chance to do that real
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soon.
We’re doing a one-off live
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podcast at a venue called caveat
in NYC, on Sunday.
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August 28th at 4 p.m.
That’s right.
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For p.m. come see us.
Then go do some other stuff
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Make a whole day of it.
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Joining me on the lineup will be
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Favorite, Alex Schmidt music
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producer and my pod six co-host,
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Calise Hawkins.
And hey if you can’t make it,
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We’ll see you at the show.
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Welcome to conspiracy the show.
The world’s most trusted
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conspiracy theory podcast with
your host, Adam Todd Brown and
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Olivia haydar
Hey, everybody, Welcome to
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conspiracy the show.
I’m Adam Todd Brown.
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Who are you?
I’m Olivia hide.
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Our that makes us your hosts,
Olivia.
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How’s it going?
Oh, it’s going.
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All right, can’t complain.
You can we I could?
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Yeah, obviously like, this is
the this is the bit.
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But hey, You know, it’s fine.
It’s hot.
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I hate this part of the summer
in the midwest.
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It’s the fucking worst.
Yeah, people always talk about
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the winters in the midwest, but
the Summers, brutal horse, the
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humidity way worse.
Like walking into a swimming
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pool when youíve going from a
mall to outside in the midwest,
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in the summer is a jarring
experience base.
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Probably killed people in the
past.
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I’m sure.
So I getting slapped in the
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face.
Yeah, it is.
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It is And my poor air
conditioner does just can’t
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handle it at all.
The winters are not anything
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anymore.
That’s, that’s yeah, that’s it.
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That’s the whole thing.
Like sometimes, you know, you’ll
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get some snowfall and it’s cold.
Like, it’s not great.
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Sure.
Like it sucks to be cold but
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like it’s not nearly as cold as
he used to be used to be real.
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Cold, used to get lots of snow.
Don’t get much snow anymore.
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It’s a balmy 75 all the time
where I live and cluding.
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I miss it right now.
Now, so we’re talking about a
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thing.
I teased at the end of the last
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Behold a Pale Horse episode.
We are talking about Gary Webb
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Gary, Webb is a complicated
figure in.
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I would say just American
history, kind of.
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Absolutely.
Yeah.
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When you’re a journalist you
kind of has this kind of an
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impact and you kind of move from
journalists who historical
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figure.
Yeah, he’s a Analysts who just
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like Bill Cooper, who was the
author of behold a Pale Horse.
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Gary Webb also wants pushed.
A theory that the American
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government was involved in
trafficking drugs.
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Mmm, the difference between the
two, is that maybe sometimes,
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but for the most part, no one
called Gary Webb, a conspiracy
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theorist.
No.
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I mean I’m sure some people did
but like know he was a
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legitimate reporter Bill,
Cooper’s theory was that the CIA
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sells drugs At the behest of the
Bilderberg Group, as a means of
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population control, I think,
Gary webs Theory benefited from
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being slightly more believable.
Sure.
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Yeah, that helps and there was
also all this evidence that he
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included, and he talked to
people about it, right?
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Instead of basing, it on his
memories of documents, he saw in
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the 70s when he was in the Navy,
right?
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Yeah, like just thinking, you
know, this sounds right, maybe
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ya know.
Ya know.
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And then like he also has the
benefit of the CIA almost
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admitting to the things that he
writes about.
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Yeah, that’s the thing.
Like, if you look into this
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story, now you’ll still see.
There’s a lot of debate around
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his reporting methods.
Mmm, and I think the general
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consensus has become that this
story was discredited.
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And I wildly disagree with that.
Yeah, I don’t think that’s It’s
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a good take away at all from
this.
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Soul instance, there were
definitely issues with his
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reporting.
Yeah, like people would talk
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about like he was a very
passionate guy who kind of
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sometimes let that passion get
the better of him.
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Right.
But that doesn’t discount every
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single thing that he reported
on.
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It just means that you gotta
like it requires Nuance to talk
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about and that’s, you know,
that’s tough.
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Yeah.
Despite him making some pretty
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groundbreaking claims.
Mmm.
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In this story, The mainstream
media response was basically,
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let’s get Gary Webb he had.
It was wild.
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Well probably do this in two
episodes and the second episode
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is going to be about that
mainstream media response
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because I think that’s actually
the conspiracy it hits
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definitely.
Yeah like it’s it’s own thing
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like or, you know, at least like
a major Art of the Iran-Contra
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CIA drug conspiracy.
Yeah because I mean the CIA
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being involved in drug
smuggling, that’s kind of old
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news by now.
Like it.
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It was almost old news by the
time Gary Webb reported on it
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and we’ll get to why the
response to his was different in
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a bit, but like you said,
eventually everything.
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I mean, it wasn’t proven to be
true, but no, there was some
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level of indication here that We
didn’t pay attention to because
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Bill Clinton and Monica.
Lewinsky were tearing up the
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headlines at the time, right?
And you know, and again, this is
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stuff that we’ll talk about, but
like it was Vindicated in such a
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way that it allowed, the people
who criticized him to maintain
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their stance, you know what I
mean.
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Like they said they did a lot of
stuff like what was reported on,
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but not specifically that when
there’s a lot of that.
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Going on in the response to
this.
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Yeah, the basics of Gary Webb’s
theory was that the CIA was
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collaborating with drug
smugglers in Nicaragua, in some
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way to fund the contras which
were the rebel Army that we were
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funding to fight the sandinistas
in rang Nicaragua and Gary, webs
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theory is that the CIA either
knowingly or unknowingly
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participated Drug trafficking
into the United States.
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And the thing about it is one
thing I found researching this
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and it comes up.
If you read anything about Gary
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Webb, this was a thing that had
been reported on.
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Yeah, a lot before I actually,
there had been suggestions and
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allegations that the contras at
the very least were involved in
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cocaine trafficking way back in
the mid 80s and that’s the part
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that kind of goes on said like
if the contras were involved in
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it then the CIA was involved in
it like that act like there’s no
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00:08:05,600 –> 00:08:10,500
yeah I know there’s in that that
kind of is what the criticism of
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Gary.
Webb’s reporting sort of comes
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down to is nitpicky shit like
that.
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Well yes well they weren’t see
they didn’t work for the CIA.
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They were CIA operatives and
it’s like, okay, well what
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fucking difference is that
cares.
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Yeah.
They were just paid by the CIA
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and monitored by the CIA and
told what to do by the CIA, they
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didn’t work for, you know, they
didn’t have the words, their W2,
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uh, they’re, they’re not drawn a
government pension.
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If that’s what you’re worried
about is not exactly, was not my
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concern.
But so, yeah.
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The Associated Press published
an article about contras,
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smuggling cocaine into the
United States in the name of
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raising money to fight the
government of Nicaragua in 1985.
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So 11 years before, Gary Webb
the following year, the San
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00:09:00,500 –> 00:09:03,500
Francisco Examiner, Owner
published a story about a
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00:09:03,508 –> 00:09:07,300
cocaine seizure and mentioned
that, a quote cocaine ring in
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00:09:07,300 –> 00:09:11,500
the San Francisco Bay Area,
helped finance, Nicaragua’s
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00:09:11,500 –> 00:09:15,600
Contra Rebels.
Mmm, and again, that’s 86, the
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00:09:15,600 –> 00:09:18,700
article mentions that a
convicted drug trafficker named
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00:09:18,700 –> 00:09:21,700
Julio.
Zavala said he supplied five
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00:09:21,700 –> 00:09:25,300
hundred thousand dollars to to
Costa Rican base Contra groups.
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And that the majority of it came
from cocaine trafficking in the
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Bay Area, Miami and New Yeah.
I mean this is all very well
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known.
I mean, like, it’s just funny
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because again, these claims
about drug smuggling were kind
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of singled out as the one to
pick on, but I mean like even
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earlier that decade, we’d had
the whole of Iran Contra
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Scandal.
Yeah.
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Like the and like that was about
the CIA.
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Oh, it helping arms deals
happened in order to fund the
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fucking contras.
So like I don’t understand how
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People would go well sure that
we know the CIA helped sell guns
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to fund a cup but but drugs come
on now but that’s a step too
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00:10:11,600 –> 00:10:14,700
far.
Yeah, the Iran-Contra scandal is
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so nuts.
There’s one moment where a guy
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was supposed to testify and an
hour before he was set to
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00:10:21,600 –> 00:10:24,900
testify.
He was rendered incapable of
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00:10:24,900 –> 00:10:29,900
speech.
Nothing suspicious.
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Just sealed shut like a
shellfish, toxin that guy on a
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classified rendered unable to
speak.
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That’s so, yeah, this is again
we’re talking about the CIA
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00:10:47,500 –> 00:10:51,600
here, right?
And I know it sounds crazy that
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they would traffic in drugs, but
also this is the agency that
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00:10:55,100 –> 00:11:00,200
oversaw America’s decades-long
human experimentation program.
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00:11:00,400 –> 00:11:04,200
Yeah, Like I don’t – this
outside their fucking
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00:11:04,200 –> 00:11:08,100
boundaries, I mean I really
don’t understand how you could
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00:11:08,100 –> 00:11:13,100
think that drugs are Beyond The
Pale for the CIA like that’s
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00:11:13,100 –> 00:11:15,700
just what is so my bot?
Like that’s where you go.
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No no no no, I’m putting my
fucking foot down.
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It was, it cocaine like if they
were like if this was a military
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tactic, if this was something
that we were doing in the
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00:11:25,900 –> 00:11:30,200
fucking, you know, it like that
we were and we are probably
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like, Exporting drugs to other
countries and showing that and
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00:11:35,000 –> 00:11:38,300
using that money in order to
fund some other military.
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00:11:38,300 –> 00:11:41,600
What like if we were saying it
was happening somewhere else, it
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wouldn’t be nearly the
controversial subject, I don’t
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00:11:47,300 –> 00:11:48,000
think.
Yeah.
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00:11:48,100 –> 00:11:51,100
You know, like, it only makes
sense, that, of course, that
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they would also do that sort of
thing in America.
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Yeah.
And back when these articles
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00:11:55,700 –> 00:11:59,100
came out, even then the Reagan
Administration tried really hard
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00:11:59,100 –> 00:12:02,300
to keep that Associated Press
article from I’m being published
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00:12:02,300 –> 00:12:06,200
but they failed yes and it came
out but no one really cared.
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00:12:06,200 –> 00:12:10,200
There was also a senate
subcommittee headed by John.
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00:12:10,200 –> 00:12:15,300
Kerry that was all about
investigating drug cartels and
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00:12:15,300 –> 00:12:19,200
money laundering and among their
findings, on the contras ties to
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00:12:19,200 –> 00:12:22,800
drug trafficking was this.
Here’s a quote payments to drug
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00:12:22,800 –> 00:12:27,100
traffickers by the US State
Department of funds, authorized
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00:12:27,100 –> 00:12:33,500
by Congress for humanitarian.
Assistance to the In some cases,
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00:12:33,500 –> 00:12:36,800
after the traffickers had been
indicted by federal law,
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00:12:36,800 –> 00:12:41,100
enforcement agencies on drug
charges in others while
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00:12:41,100 –> 00:12:45,300
traffickers were under active
investigation, by the same
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agencies.
Hmm.
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00:12:47,200 –> 00:12:50,000
And quote, that part’s really
important.
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00:12:50,000 –> 00:12:56,800
Yeah, because that is kind of,
the Crux of Gary Webb’s story,
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00:12:57,200 –> 00:12:58,700
right?
So, you’ll see a lot of
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00:12:58,700 –> 00:13:01,400
criticism of his story and we’ll
get into that in more.
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00:13:01,500 –> 00:13:04,500
More detail on the second
episode where people are like,
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00:13:04,500 –> 00:13:08,000
okay there’s some connections
there but there’s certainly
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00:13:08,000 –> 00:13:12,100
nothing that says the CIA
willingly started the crack
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00:13:12,100 –> 00:13:16,200
epidemic Nationwide and it’s
like yeah cuz his article
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00:13:16,200 –> 00:13:18,100
doesn’t say that.
Right.
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00:13:18,100 –> 00:13:21,300
Exactly.
But you know like you can imply
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00:13:21,300 –> 00:13:25,300
things but you can apply things.
But also his article does say
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00:13:25,300 –> 00:13:29,500
this like it says pretty much
what the carry investigation
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00:13:29,500 –> 00:13:33,600
came up with which is that yeah.
CIA wasn’t like standing on
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00:13:33,600 –> 00:13:36,900
street corners in South Central.
LA peddling crack.
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00:13:37,200 –> 00:13:39,000
Yeah, but that would be cool
though.
218
00:13:39,600 –> 00:13:44,200
So people will know if he go
back and read those 80s articles
219
00:13:44,200 –> 00:13:47,200
and even the John Kerry
investigation, none of them
220
00:13:47,200 –> 00:13:54,200
explicitly, say the CIA was
involved in drug trafficking and
221
00:13:54,200 –> 00:13:56,400
they don’t mention the CIA
explicitly.
222
00:13:56,400 –> 00:14:01,300
But when is the CIA ever
mentioned explicitly right?
223
00:14:01,400 –> 00:14:04,300
And stuff like this.
Like that’s kind of the nature
224
00:14:04,300 –> 00:14:08,000
of the CIA came up in the bonus
episode, we did last week about,
225
00:14:08,000 –> 00:14:09,300
right?
Ruth Paine.
226
00:14:09,500 –> 00:14:12,100
They’re a secretive
organization.
227
00:14:12,200 –> 00:14:13,600
I would say.
I think that’s fair.
228
00:14:13,800 –> 00:14:17,100
Yeah, they operate in the
shadows for sure.
229
00:14:18,000 –> 00:14:20,500
But also do they need to be
mentioned again, if we’re
230
00:14:20,500 –> 00:14:25,300
talking about a rebel Army that
we were funding.
231
00:14:25,500 –> 00:14:28,300
Yeah.
To fight Communists in Latin
232
00:14:28,300 –> 00:14:30,100
America.
That’s the CIA.
233
00:14:30,300 –> 00:14:32,700
Like, there’s exactly like the
That’s a doesn’t do it the FBI
234
00:14:32,700 –> 00:14:38,700
to I mean I get that like I
agree obviously that the cia’s
235
00:14:39,100 –> 00:14:44,900
involvement is implicit in this,
but I will say that is
236
00:14:45,000 –> 00:14:49,200
journalistically unsound like
you do like as a journalist you
237
00:14:49,200 –> 00:14:54,300
do need to provide some of this
information.
238
00:14:54,300 –> 00:14:56,400
Not all of the I like I love
again.
239
00:14:56,400 –> 00:15:00,300
I’m not going to come down on
Gary Webb at all really and I’m
240
00:15:00,300 –> 00:15:01,300
definitely not going to come
down.
241
00:15:01,400 –> 00:15:04,100
Down like the people who went
after him did.
242
00:15:04,100 –> 00:15:08,100
But, you know, like there’s
there’s there’s definitely
243
00:15:08,100 –> 00:15:10,700
criticisms to be leveled at this
work.
244
00:15:10,700 –> 00:15:16,000
Well, one criticism he left
himself completely wide open for
245
00:15:16,000 –> 00:15:21,600
is if he did ever just call the
CIA as one can do, like they
246
00:15:21,600 –> 00:15:24,800
have a public relations office,
you can call them and be like,
247
00:15:24,900 –> 00:15:26,600
do you want to comment on this
story?
248
00:15:26,600 –> 00:15:30,400
That’s about to run about your
starting the crack epidemic and
249
00:15:30,400 –> 00:15:33,800
a yeah, if Did that he didn’t
say like he didn’t say it.
250
00:15:34,100 –> 00:15:37,500
Nowhere in the article is he
like now we reached out to the
251
00:15:37,500 –> 00:15:41,400
CIA for common, so this way was
able immediately to just be
252
00:15:41,400 –> 00:15:44,000
like, bitch.
Didn’t even ask why we might in
253
00:15:44,000 –> 00:15:45,600
you ask us.
Yeah, we wouldn’t have killed
254
00:15:45,600 –> 00:15:48,500
you.
I guess we’re being like, I
255
00:15:48,500 –> 00:15:52,300
understand being reluctant to do
that when you’re working on a
256
00:15:52,300 –> 00:15:55,100
story like this.
Yeah, I get that like that makes
257
00:15:55,100 –> 00:15:58,800
sense from a human perspective,
but it is unfortunate that that
258
00:15:58,800 –> 00:16:04,800
leads to these sorts of of holes
that are easy for critics to use
259
00:16:04,800 –> 00:16:07,500
to devalue the entire thing.
That’s not fair.
260
00:16:08,800 –> 00:16:13,500
So Gary Webb, let’s talk about
him a little bit before he came
261
00:16:13,500 –> 00:16:17,800
to the San Jose Mercury, which
is the outlet that eventually
262
00:16:17,800 –> 00:16:19,800
published the dark Alliance
series.
263
00:16:19,800 –> 00:16:24,500
That’s what his articles about
the CIA and drug trafficking
264
00:16:24,500 –> 00:16:27,000
were called.
Right before that.
265
00:16:27,000 –> 00:16:28,800
He was an investigative
reporter.
266
00:16:28,800 –> 00:16:32,400
He won a bunch of awards is
first investigative work, was
267
00:16:32,400 –> 00:16:37,700
published in the Cincinnati Post
in 1980 17 parts.
268
00:16:37,800 –> 00:16:41,700
Series about the murder of a
coal executive who had organized
269
00:16:41,700 –> 00:16:45,400
crime ties and went worried.
That sounds good.
270
00:16:45,600 –> 00:16:48,100
He won the national
investigative reporters and
271
00:16:48,100 –> 00:16:52,400
editors award for reporting from
a Small Town Newspaper for that
272
00:16:52,400 –> 00:16:54,100
story.
I don’t know.
273
00:16:54,100 –> 00:16:57,100
I mean I guess Cincinnati is
small but they got.
274
00:16:57,200 –> 00:17:00,600
Yeah we got a couple of the
major sports teams not that he’s
275
00:17:00,600 –> 00:17:01,600
mall.
They do.
276
00:17:01,600 –> 00:17:04,599
I guess.
Is that what makes a city a
277
00:17:04,900 –> 00:17:07,500
large city in my opinion?
100%.
278
00:17:07,900 –> 00:17:10,200
No, I don’t disagree.
I congratulations, Green.
279
00:17:10,200 –> 00:17:14,200
Bay Wisconsin, your huge.
Wow, they’re in the big leagues?
280
00:17:14,400 –> 00:17:17,700
Sure are.
But he joined the San Jose
281
00:17:17,700 –> 00:17:21,800
Mercury News in 1988 in 1990.
He and a team of journalists at
282
00:17:21,800 –> 00:17:23,900
the paper wanted a Pulitzer.
Yeah.
283
00:17:24,000 –> 00:17:27,099
For their coverage of the Loma
Prieta earthquake.
284
00:17:27,200 –> 00:17:30,200
But I did leave out.
He had a stint at the Cleveland
285
00:17:30,200 –> 00:17:33,700
Plain Dealer, where he won
numerous Regional journalism
286
00:17:33,700 –> 00:17:35,300
Awards.
But also got the paper
287
00:17:35,300 –> 00:17:37,100
successfully sued for
defamation.
288
00:17:37,100 –> 00:17:42,000
Over a He he wrote twice damn
twice.
289
00:17:42,000 –> 00:17:45,400
Gary.
Also I bet his editors loved
290
00:17:45,400 –> 00:17:48,500
him.
Also it comes up in the movie,
291
00:17:48,500 –> 00:17:50,200
Kill the Messenger, which will
probably do it.
292
00:17:50,200 –> 00:17:52,100
Bonus episode about, but hell,
yeah.
293
00:17:52,300 –> 00:17:56,600
During this period, in his life,
he cheated on his wife.
294
00:17:56,600 –> 00:18:00,300
In the woman, he cheated with
killed herself because he
295
00:18:00,300 –> 00:18:02,200
wouldn’t leave his wife.
Hmm.
296
00:18:07,900 –> 00:18:10,400
Plot point in that movie.
Wow.
297
00:18:10,500 –> 00:18:15,200
So from there, he goes to the
San Jose Mercury and according
298
00:18:15,200 –> 00:18:18,000
to the book killed, a messenger,
which is about the life of Gary
299
00:18:18,000 –> 00:18:21,900
Webb, and a highly recommended
read or just watch the Jeremy
300
00:18:21,900 –> 00:18:23,500
Renner movie, which will do
soon.
301
00:18:23,600 –> 00:18:29,800
Web, started researching the CIA
crack Connection in July 1995.
302
00:18:30,000 –> 00:18:35,100
So this article when it comes
out, it was groundbreaking in
303
00:18:35,100 –> 00:18:37,600
quite a few ways.
One of them being it was the
304
00:18:37,800 –> 00:18:42,400
First, major investigative piece
like this to be published
305
00:18:42,400 –> 00:18:46,200
simultaneously in print and on
the internet.
306
00:18:46,400 –> 00:18:48,500
Hmm.
Which meant, if you read it
307
00:18:48,500 –> 00:18:52,300
online, you could actually click
on the sources and read like
308
00:18:52,300 –> 00:18:56,300
right his Source isn’t things.
So I think that is worth taking
309
00:18:56,300 –> 00:19:00,500
into account when people call
this article poorly sourced,
310
00:19:00,600 –> 00:19:03,100
which is a criticism that you
hear about it, a lot.
311
00:19:03,100 –> 00:19:06,200
It’s like, some of the claims
were poorly sourced.
312
00:19:06,200 –> 00:19:09,100
But there’s also links to All of
the sources.
313
00:19:09,500 –> 00:19:12,300
Yes, in this.
So yes and no.
314
00:19:12,700 –> 00:19:14,800
Right?
I mean again, like there are
315
00:19:14,800 –> 00:19:17,600
criticisms like with most pieces
of Journalism.
316
00:19:17,600 –> 00:19:21,100
There are criticisms, You Can
level at but it’s fairly
317
00:19:21,100 –> 00:19:24,600
airtight not airtight but you
know, it’s yeah, well Source
318
00:19:24,600 –> 00:19:29,100
like you said and despite it
being a massive three-part
319
00:19:29,100 –> 00:19:33,300
series that also includes like
articles within articles.
320
00:19:33,600 –> 00:19:37,200
Mmm, it’s pretty easy to
summarize what the article was
321
00:19:37,200 –> 00:19:40,300
about Out.
Yeah, it kind of says it right
322
00:19:40,300 –> 00:19:43,500
in the lead of the first
article, here’s a quote for the
323
00:19:43,500 –> 00:19:48,600
better part of a decade a San
Francisco Bay Area drug ring
324
00:19:48,800 –> 00:19:53,100
sold tons of cocaine to the
Crips and bloods street gangs of
325
00:19:53,100 –> 00:19:55,800
Los Angeles and funneled
millions.
326
00:19:55,800 –> 00:20:00,600
In drug profits to a Latin
American guerrilla Army run by
327
00:20:00,600 –> 00:20:03,600
the US.
Central Intelligence Agency and
328
00:20:03,600 –> 00:20:05,500
quote and I think what’s
important to note?
329
00:20:05,500 –> 00:20:07,600
There is no.
Where does he say?
330
00:20:07,900 –> 00:20:13,600
A the CIA intentionally sold
drugs in Los Angeles, right?
331
00:20:13,900 –> 00:20:18,300
Like he’s just saying a group of
drug smugglers with connections
332
00:20:18,300 –> 00:20:21,200
to the CIA sold drugs in Los
Angeles.
333
00:20:21,200 –> 00:20:23,200
And here’s the thing they did.
Yes.
334
00:20:23,500 –> 00:20:25,000
Absolutely.
That’s true.
335
00:20:25,300 –> 00:20:29,000
It’s and that’s a great lead to.
That’s really, that’s, that’s
336
00:20:29,000 –> 00:20:32,500
all you need for a story like
this for to start it off.
337
00:20:32,500 –> 00:20:35,600
Like, what up?
What Elite like and I highly
338
00:20:35,600 –> 00:20:37,600
recommend.
Like, I’m sure we’ll link to
339
00:20:37,800 –> 00:20:40,200
Him.
But anybody listening go read
340
00:20:40,200 –> 00:20:42,800
the three dark Alliance stories
were that were talking about.
341
00:20:42,900 –> 00:20:46,200
They’re really interesting
reads.
342
00:20:46,500 –> 00:20:48,300
Yeah.
Really well written.
343
00:20:48,300 –> 00:20:51,600
And Well Done journalism.
Yeah, that’s the thing for all
344
00:20:51,600 –> 00:20:54,800
the talk of this story having
been discredited.
345
00:20:54,800 –> 00:20:58,100
It’s never gone away.
It is an fx original series.
346
00:20:58,100 –> 00:21:00,500
Now.
Yeah, I have you watched
347
00:21:00,500 –> 00:21:04,100
snowfall, I cannot get into it.
I haven’t watched it gets like
348
00:21:04,100 –> 00:21:06,700
it’s obviously right in my
wheelhouse.
349
00:21:06,700 –> 00:21:09,700
Yeah I know.
That’s I don’t understand why
350
00:21:09,700 –> 00:21:13,000
every time I watch it I’m just
like oh, this is boring.
351
00:21:13,200 –> 00:21:16,500
Yeah.
I mean sometimes though, like, I
352
00:21:16,508 –> 00:21:19,700
get that and I think I help it.
I’m gonna fight through.
353
00:21:19,700 –> 00:21:21,500
It’s better.
I mean it’s got like four
354
00:21:21,500 –> 00:21:24,000
seasons now.
Yeah I guess it does.
355
00:21:24,000 –> 00:21:25,400
It’s crazy.
Yeah, it is.
356
00:21:25,400 –> 00:21:28,100
Yeah.
The the I think the fifth season
357
00:21:28,100 –> 00:21:29,500
just aired.
Yeah.
358
00:21:29,500 –> 00:21:32,300
Yeah.
It’s been going and as pointed
359
00:21:32,300 –> 00:21:37,200
out in Kill the Messenger and by
us mere minutes ago.
360
00:21:37,200 –> 00:21:41,000
Gary Webb was not the first
person to report on alleged
361
00:21:41,000 –> 00:21:44,400
connections between the CIA and
the crack epidemic in America.
362
00:21:44,500 –> 00:21:48,100
But what was different is all
those other articles kind of
363
00:21:48,200 –> 00:21:52,400
ended at, well, this group
smuggle drugs into the United
364
00:21:52,400 –> 00:21:56,800
States, the end, what no one
ever talked about was where did
365
00:21:56,800 –> 00:21:59,700
the drugs go from there?
Yes.
366
00:22:00,100 –> 00:22:03,000
And with it, be in the 80s here,
going to imagine it’s going to
367
00:22:03,000 –> 00:22:07,600
like Miami Vice parties and sure
like the popular image of cocoa.
368
00:22:07,700 –> 00:22:10,600
Just like and that’s the like,
that’s a big thing that’s
369
00:22:10,600 –> 00:22:16,700
underlined in this series is
that is the main like
370
00:22:16,700 –> 00:22:20,700
demographic that you were
selling cocaine to in the 70s
371
00:22:20,700 –> 00:22:25,000
and 80s like in those years.
And the thing that changed with
372
00:22:25,000 –> 00:22:29,700
this conspiracy was that crack
had been invented a few years
373
00:22:29,700 –> 00:22:36,400
before and that made it easy for
it to be packaged in a cheap way
374
00:22:36,400 –> 00:22:41,000
that could Then be sold like
other street drugs.
375
00:22:41,400 –> 00:22:44,300
Yeah.
And the thing about it being
376
00:22:44,300 –> 00:22:47,400
cooked I was reading.
It’s in one of the articles that
377
00:22:47,400 –> 00:22:51,400
will link to, but I believe it
was Gary Webb who was talking to
378
00:22:51,700 –> 00:22:55,400
Rick Ross.
I might be incorrect about who
379
00:22:55,400 –> 00:22:59,500
Rick Ross was talking to but
what Rick Ross did that no one
380
00:22:59,500 –> 00:23:01,200
else had been doing up to that
point.
381
00:23:01,200 –> 00:23:06,100
Is he cooked the cocaine into a
smokeable form ahead of time,
382
00:23:06,300 –> 00:23:07,200
right?
That’s a thing.
383
00:23:07,200 –> 00:23:09,500
People had.
Been doing for a long time and
384
00:23:09,500 –> 00:23:12,300
once you cut it up into like
that small of an amount and
385
00:23:12,300 –> 00:23:14,300
resell it, you’re going to make
a fucking killing.
386
00:23:14,300 –> 00:23:16,100
Exactly.
Because it’s like, you know, you
387
00:23:16,100 –> 00:23:19,300
only need a Little Rock to get
high.
388
00:23:19,500 –> 00:23:23,700
It’s like it’s so like you could
sell it it by these such small
389
00:23:23,700 –> 00:23:26,500
amounts that they were way more
affordable.
390
00:23:26,600 –> 00:23:28,800
Right?
And the thing is, he did that
391
00:23:28,800 –> 00:23:31,700
for people like yes, freebasing
has always been a thing.
392
00:23:31,700 –> 00:23:34,300
That’s how Richard Pryor said,
himself act like yeah.
393
00:23:34,400 –> 00:23:36,900
Like yeah, it’s important that
heat these people.
394
00:23:36,900 –> 00:23:42,000
Like they Not invent crap.
This is popularizing it, right?
395
00:23:42,000 –> 00:23:46,100
And kind of mainstreaming it
making it more accessible.
396
00:23:46,100 –> 00:23:48,500
Because Rick Ross was talking
about this one particular
397
00:23:48,500 –> 00:23:51,700
customer who was like well I
like to get high before work in
398
00:23:51,700 –> 00:23:54,600
the morning and it’s like who
fucking doesn’t for one thing
399
00:23:55,800 –> 00:24:00,300
and he was like, but I’m in a
hurry, I got to like get up and
400
00:24:00,300 –> 00:24:03,000
be responsible.
Make my kids breakfast and shit,
401
00:24:03,000 –> 00:24:06,000
but I also got to cook my own
cocaine so I can get high in the
402
00:24:06,000 –> 00:24:07,500
morning.
He’s I know.
403
00:24:07,800 –> 00:24:12,000
You cook it for me.
And that’s when the light bulb
404
00:24:12,000 –> 00:24:15,100
went off over Rick Ross, his
head and he was like right, oh
405
00:24:15,100 –> 00:24:19,400
shit, yeah, that’s how you sell
cocaine in black neighborhoods,
406
00:24:19,600 –> 00:24:22,800
you make it affordable.
That’s What attracted it made
407
00:24:22,800 –> 00:24:24,800
cocaine, affordable and black
and Roads.
408
00:24:25,100 –> 00:24:29,500
And it just so happens to also
be a highly highly addictive
409
00:24:29,500 –> 00:24:33,600
version of cocaine right.
Extremely addictive extremely
410
00:24:33,600 –> 00:24:36,400
potent and cheap you ever smoked
pot.
411
00:24:36,400 –> 00:24:40,300
I have not No, it’s pretty good.
It’s pretty good.
412
00:24:40,300 –> 00:24:42,000
I’ve heard that heard good
things.
413
00:24:42,100 –> 00:24:45,600
Yeah, good thing I wrote a
cracked article.
414
00:24:45,600 –> 00:24:48,000
Yeah, about it.
I think I read that not the kind
415
00:24:48,000 –> 00:24:51,500
of thing I’d recommend doing on
no second of days or at.
416
00:24:51,500 –> 00:24:53,100
All right?
So yes.
417
00:24:53,200 –> 00:24:55,700
If you do it will make sure you
really don’t go back to that
418
00:24:55,700 –> 00:24:58,300
well the next day because right,
you’re going to be there for a
419
00:24:58,300 –> 00:25:03,000
while if you do.
Yeah I would try it once but I’m
420
00:25:03,000 –> 00:25:04,100
not going.
It’s not one.
421
00:25:04,100 –> 00:25:05,600
You know that I’ll seek out
ever.
422
00:25:06,200 –> 00:25:10,200
It’s like if it’s offered to be
Feels like if it’s offered to me
423
00:25:10,200 –> 00:25:13,700
though, that might not be a
situation where I want to smoke
424
00:25:13,700 –> 00:25:18,500
crack, but ya know, like it’s
interesting.
425
00:25:18,500 –> 00:25:23,400
And then because the big thing,
is that, Rick Ross has this idea
426
00:25:23,700 –> 00:25:28,000
and starts, you know, making
crack first and then selling it.
427
00:25:28,100 –> 00:25:31,800
And but runs into the problem
quickly, that cocaine is very
428
00:25:31,800 –> 00:25:36,600
expensive to buy and he needed a
way to get it cheaply.
429
00:25:37,000 –> 00:25:44,200
Inter Or some pesky Nicaraguan
Rebels, yes, and the CIA.
430
00:25:44,300 –> 00:25:46,200
And that’s kind of the
connection there.
431
00:25:46,300 –> 00:25:50,300
Yeah, the series dark Alliance
focuses on three men, Freeway
432
00:25:50,300 –> 00:25:53,800
Rick, Ross?
Not the rapper know the guy,
433
00:25:53,800 –> 00:25:57,700
that former corrections officer
rapper stole from.
434
00:25:58,600 –> 00:26:00,500
Yeah.
Hi.
435
00:26:01,000 –> 00:26:06,100
Who sued the rapper?
Yeah, because he used his name
436
00:26:06,100 –> 00:26:10,500
and then it got dismissed.
Freeway Rick, Ross, Oscar Danilo
437
00:26:10,500 –> 00:26:13,100
Blandon in.
Norwin Meneses.
438
00:26:13,200 –> 00:26:15,600
Is it Blandon or blend?
Oh, you’re right.
439
00:26:15,600 –> 00:26:18,100
It’s bland don’t.
Well, I don’t know that’s how it
440
00:26:18,100 –> 00:26:19,100
is.
I just didn’t.
441
00:26:19,200 –> 00:26:23,200
I didn’t figure out how to type
the, oh, with the accent over
442
00:26:23,200 –> 00:26:24,400
it.
When I was doing this, okay,
443
00:26:24,400 –> 00:26:26,800
have me an emergency.
We’re entering Americans, we
444
00:26:26,808 –> 00:26:29,200
can, we can say Blandon.
Yeah.
445
00:26:29,300 –> 00:26:33,900
Oscar danilot blamed on.
It’s like Brandon with an L.
446
00:26:34,100 –> 00:26:37,500
Yeah, exactly.
I think it means Brandon.
447
00:26:37,700 –> 00:26:41,600
In sure Nicaragua.
Yeah, exactly.
448
00:26:42,400 –> 00:26:46,000
So Rick Ross was until a drug
dealer as we’ve mentioned, a
449
00:26:46,000 –> 00:26:51,000
whole bunch and Bland own and
Meneses were Nicaraguan drug
450
00:26:51,000 –> 00:26:54,200
smugglers.
The first article in the series
451
00:26:54,200 –> 00:26:58,200
mostly covered the failure of
law enforcement agencies to
452
00:26:58,200 –> 00:27:03,700
prosecute Blandon and menaces
and how a lot of that had to do
453
00:27:03,700 –> 00:27:08,100
with their connections to the
CIA in the contras and Ends up
454
00:27:08,100 –> 00:27:11,500
being the part.
When the mainstream media gets
455
00:27:11,500 –> 00:27:15,000
to pick in the story apart, they
just completely ignore that
456
00:27:15,000 –> 00:27:18,100
because that happened like
that’s the thing.
457
00:27:18,300 –> 00:27:22,500
When the CIA report comes out
later like are so many points
458
00:27:22,900 –> 00:27:27,700
throughout history, people have
commented on dark Alliance and
459
00:27:27,700 –> 00:27:32,000
they’re always like, well, the
CIA didn’t start the crack
460
00:27:32,000 –> 00:27:35,500
epidemic, they just knew it was
happening.
461
00:27:35,500 –> 00:27:38,700
And didn’t you do anything?
Like funded it.
462
00:27:38,800 –> 00:27:41,900
Oh, okay.
That’s also very bad.
463
00:27:42,000 –> 00:27:46,200
Yeah, exactly.
But no one cared about that
464
00:27:46,200 –> 00:27:47,000
part.
No.
465
00:27:47,400 –> 00:27:52,200
Like at least not the outlets
that end up murdering Gary Webb
466
00:27:52,200 –> 00:27:54,600
over this.
Yeah, I mean this is like acid
467
00:27:54,600 –> 00:27:58,000
and again, this is what we’re
going to really dig into in the
468
00:27:58,000 –> 00:28:03,100
second episode here.
But like it really is that they
469
00:28:03,100 –> 00:28:08,600
just focus so hard on him and
even Like at least one of the
470
00:28:08,600 –> 00:28:13,300
reporters who worked for the LA
Times liked commented on it, a
471
00:28:13,308 –> 00:28:16,800
few years later where they were
he was like yeah no we really
472
00:28:16,800 –> 00:28:21,900
went we got real focused on him
and no one reported about the
473
00:28:21,900 –> 00:28:24,000
actual allegations.
Yeah.
474
00:28:24,100 –> 00:28:25,500
Yeah.
The mainstream media.
475
00:28:25,500 –> 00:28:28,800
In this case did exactly what
the government wanted them to
476
00:28:28,800 –> 00:28:30,000
do.
Yeah.
477
00:28:30,500 –> 00:28:32,600
Mike to the letter.
It’s yep.
478
00:28:32,600 –> 00:28:34,400
Scary.
And that’s why I think that is
479
00:28:34,400 –> 00:28:36,100
the conspiracy here.
I don’t.
480
00:28:36,100 –> 00:28:37,500
For sure.
It doesn’t.
481
00:28:37,600 –> 00:28:40,500
It really seemed like a question
anymore as to whether the CIA
482
00:28:40,500 –> 00:28:44,500
did what Gary Webb said.
It’s definitely not.
483
00:28:44,500 –> 00:28:46,900
And like Rick Ross went to
prison for what he did.
484
00:28:46,900 –> 00:28:50,300
We know Rick Ross sold crack.
Yes he would.
485
00:28:50,300 –> 00:28:54,700
He went to prison for a while
and now is like an author and
486
00:28:54,700 –> 00:28:56,900
like motivational speaker kind
of guy.
487
00:28:57,000 –> 00:28:59,800
Yeah.
Which okay, I don’t know that
488
00:28:59,800 –> 00:29:04,100
like oh yeah, Sara Lee want to
get motivated by Freeway Rick
489
00:29:04,100 –> 00:29:08,100
Ross but like whatever hands got
to make a living Yes.
490
00:29:08,500 –> 00:29:11,400
Yeah, it means selling crack.
The motivational circuit is a
491
00:29:11,408 –> 00:29:15,900
weird place to go after having
such a devastating impact on
492
00:29:16,000 –> 00:29:19,000
Humanity.
Yeah, yeah.
493
00:29:19,100 –> 00:29:23,200
Like just on the world.
Exactly General man.
494
00:29:23,500 –> 00:29:28,300
Yeah, it seems seems weird, but
then again like, oh wow, I’m
495
00:29:28,300 –> 00:29:32,400
gonna blank on is they put the
fucking Wolf of Wall Street guy,
496
00:29:32,800 –> 00:29:35,700
that’s how that movie is.
That’s, that’s one of the best
497
00:29:35,700 –> 00:29:37,100
parts of that movie.
Yeah.
498
00:29:37,100 –> 00:29:38,800
Is it?
It ends with him doing the
499
00:29:38,800 –> 00:29:41,600
fucking motivational speaker
circuit even though he’s a
500
00:29:41,600 –> 00:29:45,200
fucking asshole like monster and
lunatic.
501
00:29:45,400 –> 00:29:47,400
Yeah.
So the second article in this
502
00:29:47,400 –> 00:29:51,400
series was all about something.
You just mentioned that Rick
503
00:29:51,400 –> 00:29:55,300
Ross needed not just a ton of
cocaine but he needed it cheap.
504
00:29:55,400 –> 00:30:00,300
And that these two are where he
got that cocaine connection,
505
00:30:00,600 –> 00:30:02,800
right?
Because they wanted to get rid,
506
00:30:02,800 –> 00:30:06,000
they had a bunch of cocaine, the
may need money in order to send
507
00:30:06,000 –> 00:30:09,800
back to their Fuckin commie
hating friends, back in
508
00:30:09,808 –> 00:30:13,500
Nicaragua, they’re fucking
asshole, right wing Contra
509
00:30:13,500 –> 00:30:15,100
motherfuckers.
Yeah.
510
00:30:15,500 –> 00:30:20,000
And that, and these guys were
total fucking middle class
511
00:30:20,400 –> 00:30:22,400
assholes.
Like that was the thing that
512
00:30:22,400 –> 00:30:25,500
really jumped out at me.
Well, one of the things lotta
513
00:30:25,500 –> 00:30:28,200
stuff really jumps out at you
read these articles but like
514
00:30:28,500 –> 00:30:35,300
they talk about how blend on and
Meneses or i – he’s sorry, I
515
00:30:35,308 –> 00:30:39,200
don’t speak Spanish how they’re
like, Small, business owners and
516
00:30:39,200 –> 00:30:41,400
shit.
And like you like what?
517
00:30:41,400 –> 00:30:44,400
I think one of them worked in
real estate or something in
518
00:30:44,400 –> 00:30:46,000
Nicaragua.
Yeah.
519
00:30:46,000 –> 00:30:49,500
Then, you know, it was ousted by
the sandinistas.
520
00:30:49,500 –> 00:30:52,500
I wonder why?
I wonder, what his business
521
00:30:52,500 –> 00:30:55,100
practices were like, yeah,
there’s a quote from one of them
522
00:30:55,100 –> 00:30:58,000
where they were, just like, we
one of the Communist out of our
523
00:30:58,000 –> 00:30:59,400
government.
Yeah.
524
00:30:59,400 –> 00:31:01,500
One of their very
straightforward about their
525
00:31:01,500 –> 00:31:02,500
goals?
Yeah.
526
00:31:02,500 –> 00:31:04,400
Yeah.
They like, they were absolutely
527
00:31:04,400 –> 00:31:09,000
selling these drugs to fund the
contras like, The only question
528
00:31:09,000 –> 00:31:11,800
is, how much the CIA knew
exactly not.
529
00:31:11,800 –> 00:31:14,400
Whether it happened.
It’s just how much did they know
530
00:31:14,400 –> 00:31:16,700
and it’s like, right.
It’s the CIA, they know
531
00:31:16,700 –> 00:31:20,900
everything and it’s like, well,
why don’t we ask these guys?
532
00:31:21,000 –> 00:31:24,400
What they know is and CI is
like, you can’t ask those guys.
533
00:31:24,400 –> 00:31:26,500
They’re, they’re part of an
active investigation.
534
00:31:26,500 –> 00:31:29,600
It’s like, well, what’s that
active investigation about?
535
00:31:29,600 –> 00:31:32,100
I would love to know and I know
cam.
536
00:31:32,300 –> 00:31:36,100
So, you know, and then you know,
the problem is that then the
537
00:31:36,108 –> 00:31:37,900
media people will go.
Go.
538
00:31:38,100 –> 00:31:40,500
Well.
Okay then I guess there’s no
539
00:31:40,500 –> 00:31:46,500
connection end of discussion.
Yeah, the third article in the
540
00:31:46,500 –> 00:31:50,900
series and again, this is really
where Gary Webb’s reporting
541
00:31:50,900 –> 00:31:55,200
starts deviating from the
previous reporting on this issue
542
00:31:55,300 –> 00:31:58,000
again, he talked about where the
drugs went.
543
00:31:58,100 –> 00:32:02,300
So this third article was all
about the social impact of the
544
00:32:02,300 –> 00:32:06,900
crack epidemic on communities of
color, especially black people
545
00:32:07,800 –> 00:32:11,200
And not just that.
But even back, then we were
546
00:32:11,200 –> 00:32:15,100
talking about the disparity in
the punishment between black
547
00:32:15,100 –> 00:32:17,800
people.
And literally anyone else thinks
548
00:32:17,800 –> 00:32:19,500
that getting arrested for
cocaine?
549
00:32:19,500 –> 00:32:24,600
Even in this case, like Rick
Ross, got arrested, and then he
550
00:32:24,600 –> 00:32:28,600
went to prison and got out.
And then Danilo Blandon, who
551
00:32:28,600 –> 00:32:31,800
ended up becoming like a paid
informant for the rest of his
552
00:32:31,800 –> 00:32:34,500
life and he got like permanent
residents in the United States.
553
00:32:34,800 –> 00:32:37,300
Yep, he ends up setting Rick
Ross up again.
554
00:32:37,500 –> 00:32:39,500
Getting him sent back to prison.
Yeah.
555
00:32:39,500 –> 00:32:42,100
That was to be wild.
That was so wild.
556
00:32:42,200 –> 00:32:43,100
Oh yeah.
But also.
557
00:32:43,100 –> 00:32:44,800
Come on, Rick.
Jesus.
558
00:32:44,800 –> 00:32:46,900
Yeah, you’re gonna deal with
this motherfucker again.
559
00:32:46,900 –> 00:32:48,100
Come on.
Yeah.
560
00:32:48,200 –> 00:32:52,700
When you hear that Nicaraguan
drug smugglers, you’re right.
561
00:32:52,700 –> 00:32:55,000
It like it’s not what you’re
picturing, know the other
562
00:32:55,000 –> 00:32:57,600
exactly.
No, it’s not dudes.
563
00:32:58,000 –> 00:33:02,700
It’s not usually gold chains and
fucking you know, Uzis and
564
00:33:02,700 –> 00:33:06,800
speedboats and shit.
It’s these goddamn middle-aged
565
00:33:06,800 –> 00:33:10,500
like You know,
upper-middle-class douchebags
566
00:33:10,600 –> 00:33:13,800
who are trying to protect their
comfortable way of Lights.
567
00:33:13,800 –> 00:33:15,200
Basically.
Yeah.
568
00:33:15,200 –> 00:33:17,700
And fuck that.
That sucks.
569
00:33:17,800 –> 00:33:21,300
It does.
Yeah and it just Roy people in
570
00:33:21,300 –> 00:33:26,100
like this was an these articles
became, you know, obviously made
571
00:33:26,100 –> 00:33:30,800
a huge impact and especially the
South Central communities like
572
00:33:30,800 –> 00:33:34,500
in Los Angeles communities, like
made really big waves for
573
00:33:34,500 –> 00:33:37,400
something that, you know, seems
like it might have been nice.
574
00:33:37,500 –> 00:33:41,200
Related to the San Jose region
Bay Area.
575
00:33:41,200 –> 00:33:44,000
It really made an impact because
of the internet partially.
576
00:33:44,200 –> 00:33:46,000
Yeah.
The internet’s of pretty
577
00:33:46,000 –> 00:33:51,100
important player in this story
because these articles, even
578
00:33:51,100 –> 00:33:55,600
though they were mostly ignored
by the mainstream media at
579
00:33:55,600 –> 00:33:58,300
first.
Yeah, black media.
580
00:33:58,400 –> 00:34:03,500
They did not ignore this.
No, no, it turned a few heads,
581
00:34:03,600 –> 00:34:07,400
it started protests, it was
news.
582
00:34:07,600 –> 00:34:11,800
Four months and a lot of that
had to do with the fact that it
583
00:34:11,800 –> 00:34:15,400
could be spread on the internet.
It’ll come up again on the
584
00:34:15,408 –> 00:34:19,600
second episode, but in one of
these fucking response articles
585
00:34:19,600 –> 00:34:23,500
to dark Alliance The Washington
Post, I think it was they
586
00:34:23,500 –> 00:34:27,400
coupled their article with
another article about why black
587
00:34:27,400 –> 00:34:30,900
people are so susceptible to
falling for conspiracy theories
588
00:34:31,300 –> 00:34:35,900
and it’s like you motherfucker.
I didn’t know that’s what I knew
589
00:34:35,900 –> 00:34:38,600
about.
Condescending The bullshit right
590
00:34:38,600 –> 00:34:42,300
there, goddamn the like the
Washington Post and you know,
591
00:34:42,300 –> 00:34:44,500
this is stuff will get into more
detail later.
592
00:34:44,500 –> 00:34:47,600
But like the Washington Post,
was the first Outlet, right?
593
00:34:47,600 –> 00:34:52,000
That published a thing about it,
and that’s weird in and of
594
00:34:52,000 –> 00:34:55,199
itself.
Because again, the San Jose,
595
00:34:55,199 –> 00:35:01,100
Mercury News is as it, the name
of it, suggests is a fairly
596
00:35:01,100 –> 00:35:03,100
small rig.
I mean, you know, it’s a very
597
00:35:03,100 –> 00:35:07,100
large Daily Newspaper by Daily
Newspaper standards.
598
00:35:07,200 –> 00:35:12,900
But Still is mostly confined to
the Bay Area region that people
599
00:35:12,900 –> 00:35:16,800
buy it.
And the fact that it’s getting
600
00:35:16,800 –> 00:35:22,400
tag-teamed by The Washington
Post, with multiple pieces of
601
00:35:22,600 –> 00:35:27,300
coverage is just add the control
and then the LA Times jumps in.
602
00:35:27,400 –> 00:35:29,600
Yeah.
And the way they covered it
603
00:35:29,900 –> 00:35:34,400
because not a single one of them
looked into any of the actual
604
00:35:34,400 –> 00:35:37,300
allegation that they were hit.
That’s just looking for hole.
605
00:35:37,500 –> 00:35:41,500
Holes in his reporting which
like, whatever.
606
00:35:41,500 –> 00:35:46,100
Like if I understand wanting to
make sure that the journalistic
607
00:35:46,100 –> 00:35:51,900
process is defended or whatever
like I get that but like you
608
00:35:51,900 –> 00:35:56,300
also should like it is also I
would say journalistic
609
00:35:56,300 –> 00:36:01,800
malpractice to not investigate
the subject of the thing that
610
00:36:01,800 –> 00:36:04,400
you’re critiquing in your
critique you know what I mean?
611
00:36:04,400 –> 00:36:06,300
Like yeah.
That just seems like you’re
612
00:36:06,300 –> 00:36:09,500
completely missing.
A major part.
613
00:36:09,500 –> 00:36:13,100
Like what’s your rebuttal?
If it’s not what he’s saying, if
614
00:36:13,100 –> 00:36:16,000
you’re nitpicking so hard,
what’s your reasoning?
615
00:36:16,200 –> 00:36:17,800
Yeah.
And it’s because they’re getting
616
00:36:17,800 –> 00:36:21,200
paid by the CIA to take it down.
Well, that’s the thing.
617
00:36:21,200 –> 00:36:24,300
Like we’ll get into it more on
the second episode but the CIA
618
00:36:24,300 –> 00:36:29,600
at one point just commenting on
this in an internal like
619
00:36:29,600 –> 00:36:32,400
publication of theirs.
They’re like, man, it’s a good
620
00:36:32,400 –> 00:36:34,000
thing.
We had all those relationships
621
00:36:34,000 –> 00:36:36,500
in place with all those media
Outlets when this happened
622
00:36:37,000 –> 00:36:40,100
because we got some of them to
just kill the story without even
623
00:36:40,100 –> 00:36:43,200
reporting on it.
And it’s like, is one of the
624
00:36:43,200 –> 00:36:48,200
most disheartening things person
could read because it has a
625
00:36:48,200 –> 00:36:51,400
thing.
Again, we I’ve mentioned it on
626
00:36:51,400 –> 00:36:53,800
this podcast before project
Mockingbird.
627
00:36:54,600 –> 00:36:57,600
Carl Bernstein wrote, a really
great Rolling Stone article
628
00:36:57,600 –> 00:37:01,100
about it in 1978.
That was the CIA going out to
629
00:37:01,100 –> 00:37:04,000
journalists and being like, hey,
will you tell the stories that
630
00:37:04,000 –> 00:37:07,100
we want you to tell and will
fucking give you like Super
631
00:37:07,100 –> 00:37:07,800
Bowl?
Gets her.
632
00:37:07,800 –> 00:37:09,500
Get you.
Some sacks or something like
633
00:37:09,500 –> 00:37:11,000
whatever you want.
Yeah.
634
00:37:11,400 –> 00:37:14,600
And so many people are going to
say, yes, sure.
635
00:37:14,600 –> 00:37:16,300
I get it.
I’ll take some sex.
636
00:37:16,700 –> 00:37:20,500
I mean, I’m married, but I’m
fucking with them Super Bowl
637
00:37:20,500 –> 00:37:21,900
tickets.
If yeah.
638
00:37:21,900 –> 00:37:24,500
Exactly.
Seems like a small enough
639
00:37:24,500 –> 00:37:26,700
country that needs their
governments toppled.
640
00:37:26,700 –> 00:37:28,900
Like what kind of tickets are we
talking?
641
00:37:28,900 –> 00:37:32,200
A, my nose bleeds are my in a
box with Ashton pager?
642
00:37:32,300 –> 00:37:36,900
Oh no, you’re going to topple
luxemburgo know, I guess that’s
643
00:37:36,900 –> 00:37:38,500
fine.
Go to the Bahamas.
644
00:37:38,500 –> 00:37:43,800
Yeah, it’s okay great.
So yeah, these articles, of
645
00:37:43,800 –> 00:37:48,200
course, lead to a huge wave of
protests among especially black
646
00:37:48,200 –> 00:37:52,000
communities.
This is a quote from Carl T
647
00:37:52,000 –> 00:37:54,100
Rowan, who is a syndicated
columnist?
648
00:37:54,400 –> 00:37:57,000
If this is true.
Then millions of black lives
649
00:37:57,000 –> 00:38:00,400
have been ruined in America’s
jails and prisons are now
650
00:38:00,400 –> 00:38:04,300
clogged with young
African-Americans because of a
651
00:38:04,300 –> 00:38:09,500
cynical plot by a CIA that his
Doric Lee has operated in
652
00:38:09,500 –> 00:38:13,800
contempt of the law and yep.
That is correct.
653
00:38:14,200 –> 00:38:18,100
Yes true.
And the problem is like,
654
00:38:18,100 –> 00:38:21,800
especially with that Washington
Post shit about why black people
655
00:38:21,800 –> 00:38:24,400
are more susceptible.
Yeah, that’s crazy theories.
656
00:38:25,100 –> 00:38:29,800
The mainstream media really did
turn this like without saying
657
00:38:29,800 –> 00:38:32,600
it.
They turn this into a thing that
658
00:38:32,600 –> 00:38:35,700
was like, well, black people
worry about that, like this,
659
00:38:36,100 –> 00:38:38,700
that’s not your concern.
CERN that’s conspiracy theory
660
00:38:38,700 –> 00:38:41,100
bullshit like right?
The government’s not doing
661
00:38:41,100 –> 00:38:43,200
anything to you, right?
Yeah.
662
00:38:43,300 –> 00:38:45,400
Yeah.
What, what, what’s next, yeah?
663
00:38:45,400 –> 00:38:49,800
Like a mad scientist created.
White people in His image and
664
00:38:49,800 –> 00:38:53,000
Africa.
Yeah, sure sure buddy the other
665
00:38:53,000 –> 00:38:57,500
CIA selling drugs.
Absolutely, at one point Maxine
666
00:38:57,500 –> 00:39:00,900
Waters, who represented a
district in l.a. that included,
667
00:39:00,900 –> 00:39:02,900
South Central LA.
Where most of the story
668
00:39:02,900 –> 00:39:06,700
happened, she called into a talk
radio show which among again
669
00:39:06,700 –> 00:39:10,700
among American Media.
Outlets this was a huge fucking
670
00:39:10,700 –> 00:39:14,400
story for obvious reasons, she
called in to one of those shows
671
00:39:14,400 –> 00:39:18,500
and said that the Congressional
Black Caucus was going to take
672
00:39:18,500 –> 00:39:20,200
up this issue at their next
meeting.
673
00:39:20,500 –> 00:39:24,300
They were expecting like 200
people to show up, 2,000 people
674
00:39:24,500 –> 00:39:28,700
hell, yeah.
So again like, yeah, this isn’t
675
00:39:28,700 –> 00:39:30,900
the kind of thing.
The government in the mainstream
676
00:39:30,900 –> 00:39:33,600
media would conspire over.
Absolutely sure.
677
00:39:33,600 –> 00:39:37,600
Yeah, and and Maxine Waters.
Yeah, it should be said she She
678
00:39:37,600 –> 00:39:43,000
she was a huge supporter of Gary
Webb yes for his entire life and
679
00:39:43,000 –> 00:39:48,200
after his life, all right P.
So she’s always been kind of
680
00:39:48,200 –> 00:39:52,200
spearheading this one because
her district is largely.
681
00:39:52,300 –> 00:39:54,700
What the one that was the most
impacted by it?
682
00:39:54,700 –> 00:39:58,600
Yeah, it got to be such a thing
that the CIA director at the
683
00:39:58,607 –> 00:40:02,200
time guy named John Deutch.
Hmm, there is video of this and
684
00:40:02,200 –> 00:40:05,700
it is fascinating because you
mostly because I don’t know that
685
00:40:05,700 –> 00:40:07,800
I’ve ever seen the CIA do.
Like this.
686
00:40:08,200 –> 00:40:12,600
But he went to a community
meeting in watts and like took
687
00:40:12,600 –> 00:40:19,200
questions from the community and
let me tell you it is awkward
688
00:40:19,200 –> 00:40:24,400
and he may no longer CIA
director a month later a month.
689
00:40:24,400 –> 00:40:25,600
Oh wow.
Yeah.
690
00:40:25,600 –> 00:40:31,800
He made it a while but I I kind
of want to see that and I kind
691
00:40:31,800 –> 00:40:35,800
of never want to see that.
That sounds excruciating.
692
00:40:35,800 –> 00:40:37,600
It feels like a trap.
Rap.
693
00:40:37,600 –> 00:40:40,700
Yeah.
Like yeah, girls like hey are
694
00:40:40,700 –> 00:40:43,600
you mad about the CIA selling
crack in your community?
695
00:40:43,700 –> 00:40:47,000
How about you all Gather in this
one building and come to the CIA
696
00:40:47,000 –> 00:40:49,300
about it.
Why don’t you say it to our face
697
00:40:49,300 –> 00:40:51,300
here?
Take this take this
698
00:40:51,300 –> 00:40:53,000
commemorative coin home with
you.
699
00:40:53,000 –> 00:40:55,100
Keep it on you at all times.
Please.
700
00:40:57,100 –> 00:41:00,000
Oh my God.
So yeah, they like the
701
00:41:00,000 –> 00:41:04,800
government and the media, both
really end up going to the mat
702
00:41:04,800 –> 00:41:08,100
to try and put this story down.
Yeah.
703
00:41:08,200 –> 00:41:12,200
And they do, and then, yeah,
they did it right or wrong and
704
00:41:12,200 –> 00:41:15,000
you know, and you know, I’m sure
we’ll just set the else it will
705
00:41:15,000 –> 00:41:20,200
get into more but you know, then
Gary Webb quote-unquote killed
706
00:41:20,200 –> 00:41:26,100
himself.
Yeah, well twice on the next, So
707
00:41:26,100 –> 00:41:29,600
yeah, we’re going to get into
that mainstream media response
708
00:41:29,600 –> 00:41:33,800
and just to give you like, I
guess some some previews.
709
00:41:33,800 –> 00:41:35,800
It’s bad.
Yes.
710
00:41:35,900 –> 00:41:37,700
The paper of record.
Is that what?
711
00:41:37,700 –> 00:41:40,200
The New York Times calls itself?
Sure.
712
00:41:40,200 –> 00:41:42,400
Yes, I think so.
Fair lady.
713
00:41:42,600 –> 00:41:45,200
They fucking failed.
Yes.
714
00:41:45,600 –> 00:41:47,900
Yeah.
They like, I’m not one of those
715
00:41:48,500 –> 00:41:50,900
mainstream media is the enemy of
the people.
716
00:41:51,300 –> 00:41:54,200
In this case they were.
Yeah, I mean, like they are a
717
00:41:54,200 –> 00:41:57,500
tool that can be Related like
anything else.
718
00:41:57,500 –> 00:42:02,500
Yeah, that’s my main outlook on
them and this but like this is
719
00:42:02,500 –> 00:42:06,700
egregious like if you read about
it, you know again like even if
720
00:42:06,700 –> 00:42:10,200
you’re like, sure there are some
valid points to be made about
721
00:42:10,200 –> 00:42:14,500
the quality of the of the
investigation that was made,
722
00:42:14,500 –> 00:42:20,200
this is still an insane Overkill
of a response, and the problem
723
00:42:20,400 –> 00:42:23,900
that you see a lot with it, I’ll
go through my 1, favorite
724
00:42:23,900 –> 00:42:27,600
example before we dive into Into
it in detail, on the next
725
00:42:27,600 –> 00:42:30,500
episode.
One thing you saw is these
726
00:42:30,500 –> 00:42:33,100
Outlets that start attacking
Gary Webb.
727
00:42:33,100 –> 00:42:36,900
Also start doing the same
things, they’re accusing him of
728
00:42:37,100 –> 00:42:40,000
right in their effort to make
their point.
729
00:42:40,000 –> 00:42:43,800
The one that stood out to me
when I was researching, this is
730
00:42:43,800 –> 00:42:47,100
LA Times writer Jesse cats.
Hmm.
731
00:42:47,100 –> 00:42:51,800
Yes, his main point of
contention in criticizing Gary.
732
00:42:51,800 –> 00:42:55,100
Webb was Gary.
Webb said, Rick Ross was a huge
733
00:42:55,100 –> 00:42:59,400
cocaine dealer And Jesse Cat
said, nah, there were bigger
734
00:42:59,400 –> 00:43:03,200
cocaine dealers and it’s like,
okay, but was he selling cocaine
735
00:43:03,200 –> 00:43:05,500
for the CIA?
Was he ate?
736
00:43:05,500 –> 00:43:09,400
But did he make a lot of money
selling crack or did he not was
737
00:43:09,400 –> 00:43:10,800
his name?
Freeway Rick Ross?
738
00:43:11,200 –> 00:43:16,100
Like, you know, come on, man.
In the thing, is, he criticizes
739
00:43:16,100 –> 00:43:20,100
Gary Webb for overstating.
How big of a drug dealer, Rick
740
00:43:20,100 –> 00:43:24,200
Ross was.
But in 1994, Jesse cats wrote
741
00:43:24,200 –> 00:43:28,000
this about Rick.
If there was an eye to the
742
00:43:28,000 –> 00:43:30,300
storm.
If there was a criminal
743
00:43:30,300 –> 00:43:34,500
mastermind behind cracks
decade-long rain, if there was
744
00:43:34,500 –> 00:43:39,700
one outlawed capitalist, most
responsible for flooding Los
745
00:43:39,700 –> 00:43:44,000
Angeles streets, with
mass-marketed cocaine, his name
746
00:43:44,000 –> 00:43:48,700
was Freeway, Rick Ross.
Ricky Donnell, Ross did more
747
00:43:48,700 –> 00:43:53,300
than anyone else to democratize
crack boost in volume.
748
00:43:53,300 –> 00:43:57,400
High slashing prices in
spreading Disease on a scale
749
00:43:57,400 –> 00:44:01,300
never before conceived.
And quote in that motherfucker,
750
00:44:01,300 –> 00:44:04,100
two years later.
When Gary Webb writes this
751
00:44:04,100 –> 00:44:08,100
article is like nah Rick Ross
wasn’t that big.
752
00:44:08,100 –> 00:44:11,100
And I did not know it was and
it’s like, well, they were you
753
00:44:11,100 –> 00:44:14,100
just lying?
Yeah, I did not know there.
754
00:44:14,200 –> 00:44:20,100
You would have that exact of a
of, hey, hypocritical point.
755
00:44:20,200 –> 00:44:24,600
That was so that was so exact to
his criticism.
756
00:44:24,700 –> 00:44:28,900
It has its It is interesting
because cats is one of the
757
00:44:28,900 –> 00:44:33,800
people from the LA Times, who
eventually is like, yeah, we
758
00:44:33,800 –> 00:44:35,900
were kind of going crazy on
that.
759
00:44:36,000 –> 00:44:39,600
I don’t know who’s going on as
evidenced by that, right there.
760
00:44:39,600 –> 00:44:42,000
Yeah, exactly.
He kind of has, he’s one of the
761
00:44:42,000 –> 00:44:45,600
guys who has actually like
renounced a lot of, you know,
762
00:44:45,600 –> 00:44:49,800
it’s not renounce, but at least
like been remorseful about his
763
00:44:49,800 –> 00:44:52,300
role and it’s like, yeah, you
should be you killed?
764
00:44:52,300 –> 00:44:55,000
Yes guy.
Absolutely the response to this
765
00:44:55,000 –> 00:44:57,800
article.
Is what killed Gary Webb?
766
00:44:57,800 –> 00:45:01,800
I actually Against All Odds and
I know I’ve said the opposite on
767
00:45:01,800 –> 00:45:05,400
this podcast before.
I do think, Gary Webb killed
768
00:45:05,400 –> 00:45:08,300
himself.
Oh you do for one thing all of
769
00:45:08,300 –> 00:45:10,000
his family.
All of his friends are like
770
00:45:10,000 –> 00:45:14,400
yeah, I mean then that’s kill
yourself in the thing.
771
00:45:14,400 –> 00:45:18,900
Is it seems way late in the game
for the government to like kill
772
00:45:18,900 –> 00:45:22,600
him out of retaliation.
They had already destroyed this,
773
00:45:22,600 –> 00:45:26,600
dude, the day he died.
He was about to Move into his
774
00:45:26,600 –> 00:45:28,200
mom’s house.
Yeah.
775
00:45:28,200 –> 00:45:31,700
Because he couldn’t afford his
mortgage anymore like he never
776
00:45:31,700 –> 00:45:36,800
got another job with a major.
No, it was paper like it really
777
00:45:36,800 –> 00:45:38,700
he lost his family over it
again.
778
00:45:38,700 –> 00:45:42,600
Ruined his life.
And yeah, it’s crits weird that
779
00:45:42,600 –> 00:45:46,100
he shot himself twice in the
head and say that’s the thing.
780
00:45:46,100 –> 00:45:50,500
But the first bullet went
through his cheek like it went
781
00:45:50,500 –> 00:45:55,500
in and out and granted, it seems
crazy that you would like wake
782
00:45:55,500 –> 00:45:57,600
up from That and be like, oh, I
fucked up.
783
00:45:57,600 –> 00:46:00,600
Let me try again.
It’s no way you’re going out and
784
00:46:00,600 –> 00:46:03,400
then waking back up.
It’s a, it has to had to have
785
00:46:03,400 –> 00:46:09,300
been immediate like surely, it’s
like, oh no, like oh, I can.
786
00:46:09,300 –> 00:46:11,700
Yeah, that’s just a scenario
that is.
787
00:46:11,800 –> 00:46:14,500
That’s a very horrific scenario
to imagine.
788
00:46:14,800 –> 00:46:17,500
I just that.
I mean, and look, it’s like the
789
00:46:17,500 –> 00:46:23,000
coroner said it’s not unheard of
for their to for someone to have
790
00:46:23,000 –> 00:46:25,600
killed themselves by being shot
twice.
791
00:46:26,000 –> 00:46:29,800
Like it’s just weird.
It’s very bitter, very wintering
792
00:46:29,800 –> 00:46:33,600
considering his career.
It’s just weird.
793
00:46:33,600 –> 00:46:37,300
It’s a weird Capper.
Yeah yeah story I guess I don’t
794
00:46:37,300 –> 00:46:40,200
know what he was working on at
the time he might have been on
795
00:46:40,200 –> 00:46:42,200
right?
Some other crazy ass story.
796
00:46:42,200 –> 00:46:44,400
So like I mean don’t get me
wrong, there’s perfect
797
00:46:44,800 –> 00:46:48,500
perfectly, fine chance, God he
has, you told me the government
798
00:46:48,500 –> 00:46:50,700
kills, literally everyone who
dies?
799
00:46:50,800 –> 00:46:54,100
I feel like yeah alright I
always kind of suspected it.
800
00:46:54,100 –> 00:46:55,800
It’s good to have confirmation.
Thank you.
801
00:46:55,900 –> 00:46:58,900
Try and cheer or whoever that
would come from.
802
00:47:00,600 –> 00:47:03,300
Yeah, I mean, for sure.
Look look, yeah.
803
00:47:03,300 –> 00:47:06,100
Well, we’ll never know in this
is stuff, we’ll definitely talk
804
00:47:06,100 –> 00:47:10,000
about a lot as we talked about
his media fall out, but I would
805
00:47:10,000 –> 00:47:14,600
definitely understand a suicide,
his life had been ruined, but
806
00:47:14,600 –> 00:47:16,600
sure.
Yeah, dude, two bullets, it’s
807
00:47:16,600 –> 00:47:20,000
just one of those things.
What if he did it on purpose, as
808
00:47:20,000 –> 00:47:22,600
like, the ultimate troll move
back?
809
00:47:22,600 –> 00:47:27,800
He’s like, would be funny.
It’s like I definitely want to
810
00:47:27,800 –> 00:47:33,700
die but I could really make it
have some fun if people thought
811
00:47:33,700 –> 00:47:38,400
that the CIA murdered be.
It’s possible there is an
812
00:47:38,400 –> 00:47:42,500
internet video of a guy who just
like shoots himself in the cheek
813
00:47:42,500 –> 00:47:45,500
just to see if it’s a thing he
could do and he did he shot
814
00:47:45,500 –> 00:47:48,400
himself in speaking the bullet.
Just yeah I mean absolutely if
815
00:47:48,400 –> 00:47:51,300
your mouth is I mean and if your
mouth is open, you’ll basically
816
00:47:51,300 –> 00:47:55,000
just get two holes in your mouth
that interface which sucks that
817
00:47:55,000 –> 00:47:57,400
is the theory.
A, I want to believe when it
818
00:47:57,400 –> 00:48:00,200
comes to Gary, Webb’s death that
yeah, yes.
819
00:48:00,200 –> 00:48:01,900
Is a joke.
He did.
820
00:48:01,900 –> 00:48:06,400
Unfortunately kill himself, but
he also told the CIA at the end,
821
00:48:06,400 –> 00:48:09,400
right?
I mean, hey, I I would love it,
822
00:48:09,400 –> 00:48:12,600
I would love to see it but yeah,
we’ll get into Gary Webb’s
823
00:48:12,800 –> 00:48:17,200
death, a little more in his life
After the Dark Alliance series
824
00:48:17,200 –> 00:48:21,300
you on the next episode.
Where we will also dig into the
825
00:48:21,500 –> 00:48:25,000
batshit.
Insane media response to this
826
00:48:25,000 –> 00:48:31,200
story, the new X assembled, a
team of 17 reporters just to
827
00:48:31,200 –> 00:48:34,800
pick apart Gary, webs reporting.
They wrote more words about his
828
00:48:34,800 –> 00:48:38,200
reporting.
Then he wrote about the CIA, so
829
00:48:38,200 –> 00:48:41,200
and fucking night.
It states.
830
00:48:41,200 –> 00:48:43,600
That is shameful.
Yes.
831
00:48:43,800 –> 00:48:47,100
And like the end, you know,
again, we will get into a bit
832
00:48:47,100 –> 00:48:50,800
like the LA Times, basically,
their entire fucking Department
833
00:48:50,800 –> 00:48:53,600
was focused on.
Yeah.
834
00:48:53,600 –> 00:48:58,100
Gary Webb for time and like I I
sorta understand the LA Times
835
00:48:58,100 –> 00:49:01,500
being a grow about it because
this is them getting scooped on
836
00:49:01,500 –> 00:49:04,600
a story that happened in.
Oh, yeah, they’re city.
837
00:49:04,900 –> 00:49:09,000
That is like, I understand, like
I said, and again, well, this is
838
00:49:09,000 –> 00:49:10,700
stuff.
We’re getting into, but I
839
00:49:10,700 –> 00:49:17,400
understand wanting to be
rigorous in your investigation
840
00:49:17,900 –> 00:49:22,000
of a claim like this.
Like, you want to be as
841
00:49:22,000 –> 00:49:24,500
intellectually rigorous and make
sure everything is as airtight
842
00:49:24,500 –> 00:49:28,200
as possible.
But Then it’s just too much and
843
00:49:28,200 –> 00:49:30,500
it ends up ruining Gary, webs
life.
844
00:49:30,900 –> 00:49:32,500
Yep.
Very much.
845
00:49:32,500 –> 00:49:36,300
So, but he did win an award for
this article.
846
00:49:36,300 –> 00:49:38,100
Yeah, well that’s good, he’ll
have that.
847
00:49:38,100 –> 00:49:40,700
Then there was a lot of debate
as to whether to still give it
848
00:49:40,700 –> 00:49:44,900
to him because of the Fallout
over this but he was and remains
849
00:49:44,900 –> 00:49:48,000
controversial.
Yeah, so yeah.
850
00:49:48,000 –> 00:49:53,000
On the next episode we’ll delve
into the mainstream media
851
00:49:53,000 –> 00:49:57,400
response.
So yes, the Our old media was
852
00:49:57,800 –> 00:50:02,400
appropriately, upset, and
concerned for the most part.
853
00:50:02,500 –> 00:50:04,900
Again, communities of color.
Very upset.
854
00:50:04,900 –> 00:50:08,600
Dick Gregory got arrested
outside the CIA hell for
855
00:50:08,600 –> 00:50:13,000
protesting when this happened.
So it wasn’t that no one cared.
856
00:50:13,000 –> 00:50:15,500
It was just that the people we
needed to care.
857
00:50:15,500 –> 00:50:20,600
Didn’t kill her.
Yeah, and that is what we’ll
858
00:50:20,600 –> 00:50:23,200
talk about on the next free
episode.
859
00:50:23,200 –> 00:50:26,700
We’ll probably do a bonus
episode in I mean, maybe it
860
00:50:26,700 –> 00:50:29,000
should we cover Kill the
Messenger in between?
861
00:50:29,800 –> 00:50:33,300
Yeah, be sure I down.
I definitely want to cover that.
862
00:50:33,500 –> 00:50:35,800
It’s I’ve watched it, it’s good
movie.
863
00:50:35,800 –> 00:50:37,700
So yeah, good.
Jeremy Renner movie.
864
00:50:38,200 –> 00:50:40,900
There you go.
Jeremy Renner is Gary Webb.
865
00:50:40,900 –> 00:50:42,600
It’s believable.
I could see that.
866
00:50:42,600 –> 00:50:44,800
I mean, he doesn’t look anything
like him, but that is ready.
867
00:50:44,800 –> 00:50:46,800
Scott are small, town
journalists face.
868
00:50:47,000 –> 00:50:50,300
He does like heat.
And and look, Jeremy Renner has
869
00:50:50,300 –> 00:50:55,300
had his problems in the past.
He certainly seems like a weird,
870
00:50:55,300 –> 00:50:57,600
dude.
Yeah, but he’s a good actor.
871
00:50:57,600 –> 00:50:59,300
I like him.
I like watching him act.
872
00:50:59,300 –> 00:51:02,100
I like watching him perform.
He’s great in, like The Hurt
873
00:51:02,100 –> 00:51:04,700
Locker and things like that.
So yeah, he’s good in it.
874
00:51:04,700 –> 00:51:10,600
And there’s also a weird amount
of strange stuff around that
875
00:51:10,600 –> 00:51:14,900
movie itself especially the
promotion of it, okay?
876
00:51:15,000 –> 00:51:19,300
Like when it comes out the
studio that made it did not
877
00:51:19,300 –> 00:51:21,100
promote it at all.
Yeah.
878
00:51:21,300 –> 00:51:24,300
Like to the point that it seemed
like they were not wanting
879
00:51:24,300 –> 00:51:26,600
people to know it had been.
Aid.
880
00:51:26,600 –> 00:51:29,400
Sure.
I mean that might be the case if
881
00:51:29,400 –> 00:51:32,800
I also be one of the you know it
didn’t it might not, they might
882
00:51:32,800 –> 00:51:35,900
have known that it didn’t have a
lot of broads Commercial Appeal
883
00:51:35,900 –> 00:51:38,600
which is fine.
Like not every movie needs to
884
00:51:38,600 –> 00:51:42,200
have major magical appeal, but
Helen cast and by that I mean it
885
00:51:42,200 –> 00:51:44,800
also has Mary Elizabeth Winstead
in it.
886
00:51:45,900 –> 00:51:47,800
Okay, well this thing is this
thing.
887
00:51:47,800 –> 00:51:49,800
Sounds great.
We definitely gotta cover it.
888
00:51:50,500 –> 00:51:53,000
I love her.
I love her so much.
889
00:51:53,500 –> 00:51:55,700
So yeah, maybe we’ll cover that
on the next bonus.
890
00:51:55,800 –> 00:52:00,100
This episode and then we’ll
finish because they get into the
891
00:52:00,100 –> 00:52:03,500
media response but not in the
same detail and also it’s a
892
00:52:03,508 –> 00:52:05,100
movie.
So like the facts are out of
893
00:52:05,100 –> 00:52:07,200
order and things like that.
But yeah.
894
00:52:07,600 –> 00:52:10,100
So yeah, we’re going to be
talking about Gary Webb next
895
00:52:10,100 –> 00:52:13,900
couple episodes, yep.
Until then do we have anything
896
00:52:13,900 –> 00:52:16,800
to plug before I get out of
here?
897
00:52:17,200 –> 00:52:20,700
Going back, our lost re-watch
podcast.
898
00:52:20,700 –> 00:52:24,000
It’s it’s on the role I think we
just the first episode just
899
00:52:24,000 –> 00:52:25,000
dropped.
Yep.
900
00:52:25,100 –> 00:52:28,800
And We got a second one coming,
so if you want to hop on the
901
00:52:28,800 –> 00:52:31,500
conspiracy to show patreon, and
check that out.
902
00:52:31,600 –> 00:52:33,600
Yeah, it’s available on the
patreon.
903
00:52:33,600 –> 00:52:37,300
Or if you subscribe to bonus
episodes through the Spotify
904
00:52:37,300 –> 00:52:40,100
app.
I also dropped the first episode
905
00:52:40,100 –> 00:52:42,500
in there, so you can hear it
there and you’ll be able to hear
906
00:52:42,500 –> 00:52:45,800
those before.
They are free to the public.
907
00:52:45,800 –> 00:52:49,700
One of your perks is a
subscriber, you lucky bastards?
908
00:52:49,700 –> 00:52:51,300
Wow!
Wow!
909
00:52:51,400 –> 00:52:55,600
I’m jealous of you outside look
up at the sky and say thank you.
910
00:52:55,900 –> 00:52:58,000
Exactly.
Because you get to hear, you’re
911
00:52:58,000 –> 00:53:01,700
going back before anyone else,
except any other people who
912
00:53:01,700 –> 00:53:03,900
subscribe which is a
considerable number of people.
913
00:53:03,900 –> 00:53:05,600
There’s no people.
It’s good.
914
00:53:05,600 –> 00:53:09,200
I’m very happy about it and like
I’m eleven, I love that show em
915
00:53:09,200 –> 00:53:11,800
all, I’m loving watching Lost
that’s been fun.
916
00:53:11,900 –> 00:53:16,700
And I’m Lovin talking about, it
takes me back so yeah, good
917
00:53:16,700 –> 00:53:18,000
times.
Yeah.
918
00:53:18,100 –> 00:53:21,100
All right.
And yeah, I’m doing I’m doing a
919
00:53:21,100 –> 00:53:25,100
live unpopular Opinion podcast
in New York City, August 28th,
920
00:53:25,200 –> 00:53:29,100
Sunday.
RPM early come out, watch me ask
921
00:53:29,100 –> 00:53:32,800
you some unpopular opinions and
then you know, go have drinks
922
00:53:32,800 –> 00:53:36,100
later not with me but no, go out
and party, have fun.
923
00:53:36,100 –> 00:53:38,000
Enjoy the city during your
friends.
924
00:53:38,000 –> 00:53:40,600
Have a nice time.
A very early evening with the on
925
00:53:40,600 –> 00:53:44,100
pops podcast Network baby.
Looks like it’s for that are
926
00:53:44,100 –> 00:53:49,800
available at on pops dot C 0
slash NYC or on the caveat NYC
927
00:53:49,800 –> 00:53:51,800
website and that’s all I got for
now.
928
00:53:51,800 –> 00:53:54,100
Let’s get the fuck out of here.
Olivia say goodbye.
929
00:53:54,200 –> 00:53:55,700
Bye.
Goodbye everybody.
930
00:53:55,800 –> 00:54:01,900
We love you.
People.