Conspiracy! The Show 207: The Character Assassination of Gary Webb Pt. 2

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Welcome to conspiracy the show.
The world’s most trusted

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conspiracy theory podcast with
your host, Adam Todd Brown and

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Olivia haydar
Hey, everybody, Welcome to

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conspiracy the show.
I’m Adam, Todd Brown and I’m

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Olivia hide.
Our ha ha keeping Olivia on her

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toes.
I know how’s it going?

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It’s not bad.
It’s not bad.

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I’m kind of in like, one of my
hyped up liminal States because

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I’m about to go see, nope,
later.

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And so that’s like that’s just
kind of on my mind at all times.

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Yeah, very excited.
Yeah, I was going to go see it

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this evening, but where I live
the timing coincides with the

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January, 6th committee probably
lying vociferously to the

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American public.
In prime time tonight about the

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events of January 6 2021,
Senate’s.

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Going to watch that horror movie
first and then I will go see.

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Nope in the morning.
Yeah, that’s gonna be

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interesting.
Are we gonna do an episode?

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Code on that.
I mean we did one back.

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Like in January 8 I remember
Wicked episode about the whole

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thing but yeah probably wouldn’t
be a bad idea.

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I very uncharacteristically have
not been watching most of the

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January 6.
Testimony it just it seems like

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such a bummer.
It does and also like what

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what’s happening?
Tonight is what I want.

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I just want to hear like I want
the summary.

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Yeah.
Cliff notes please and also Of

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it coincided with Wimbledon and
I’m a big tennis guy.

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So I I was getting up at 5:00 in
the morning to watch Rafael

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Nadal.
Of course, you guys let your

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wimba Lon.
Yeah.

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Before you can get by with
blonde at Wimbledon.

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So we are back to talking about
Gary Webb.

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This is we’re doing two free
episodes in a row because it

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just made more sense on next
week’s bonus episode.

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We’re reviewing the movie
version of this story.

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Hmm.
Which is Teens Kill the

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Messenger.
Starring Jeremy Renner unlikely

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leading man Jeremy Renner but
he’s such a good actor.

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Yeah Jeremy Renner you might
know him from the printer app.

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Yeah exclusively it.
Well I know it mostly as a

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musician I was surprised to see
ya.

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Take up acting in this film.
Exactly.

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We’re talking about that next
week.

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As for this week we’re getting
back to the Gary Webb story and

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now we’re really getting into
the conspiracy part of the

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Story.
I would argue, which is the

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mainstream media response to
this, which was insane.

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Yes, it was a disservice
basically, like this was such a

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huge story even if Gary Webb
didn’t exactly nail every

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detail.
Maybe if he employed a little

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hyperbole, sure all of those
things happened.

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But also the things he’s talking
about in this story happened.

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Yeah, that’s what they like
we’re gonna.

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This is something we’ll dig
deeper into as we.

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Talk about it.
But like one of the biggest

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takeaways from the reaction to
the dark Alliance series is that

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none of the rebuttal pieces,
really ever investigated his

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allegations.
It was all about criticizing his

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investigation, not looking into
the actual things that he was

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investigating, right?
As we get into the each Outlets

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individual reaction.
Some cases where there were

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reporters at that outlet who
were like actually the this is

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something there’s like parts to
this that we should follow up on

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and some of those Outlets just
ignored that and we’re like but

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with the CIA lie to us CIA will
lie to anyone all the time.

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Absolutely never trust the CIA.
Speaking of the CIA will link to

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two different articles in the
show notes that both do a really

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good job, covering the media
response to this.

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Story.
One of them is a 1997 article by

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a writer named Peter corn.
Blue writing for the Columbia

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journalism review and that
article came out about five

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months after dark Alliance.
So it’s everything is still

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fresh in American Minds when
that article is written.

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And it’s one of the few, I mean,
Columbia journalism review.

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It’s not the New York Times but
it’s also not nothing and they

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were one of the first Outlets to
not only point out that Gary

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webs accusations, or
allegations, in the story, where

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worth exploring, but also to
kind of take to task the media

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response to a.
So, that’s an interesting

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article.
Also, very interesting, a 2014

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article by The Intercept, yes,
which will link to both of those

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in September 2014.
The CIA released a bunch of

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documents about various
operations, from the three

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previous decades.
Mmm, and one of those documents,

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It’s which is the basis of this
intercept article was a

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previously.
Unreleased six-page article from

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the agency’s in-house Journal
called studies and intelligence,

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just the fact that this thing
exists.

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Yeah.
Like it’s hard to think about

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the CIA like that, they’re so
secretive, right?

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So there’s like a fucking
Popular Mechanics for the CIA

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that you can some, I know to if
you work there.

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I wonder if you can get a
subscription to this journal.

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Yeah, I mean I wonder how many
they’ve released yes.

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There was for a long time.
This magazine that was basically

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just a critique of the CIA.
It was a former CIA agent who

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put it out and at one point the
CIA just put all of those issues

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of that magazine up on their
website.

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Yeah, I remember we’ve talked
about that which is such a

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Brazen move but there there is
the one Epic.

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The one issue that I call an
Thuds last time, I don’t know,

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but the there is the one issue
of that magazine that they have

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still kept classified.
And I remember I found it on a

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website on the internet where
you can just like read it.

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You can check it out for an hour
if that gives anyone a hint as

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to where to find it.
But I was like, should I have

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been able to find this?
Yeah.

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Is this legal that is wild but
it’s also not interesting enough

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to do an episode about so I
don’t give a fuck.

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Yeah.
I feel like that.

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Yeah.
A lot of these things.

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Are like they sound like there
should be a lot of meat there

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but it’s really just a lot of
smoke screen and kind of, you

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know, boring shit in there.
Yeah, I mean the CIA still a

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workplace.
At the end of the day, it’s

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gonna be like bulletins about
potlucks and shit.

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My, whose birthday it is.
No, you can’t.

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You can’t talk have birthdays in
the newsletter.

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That’s classified the first
days, but they’re still

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redacted, right?
Every black squares.

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Slashes are getting a blank.
So this in-house Journal, it’s

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called studies in intelligence,
the article in it is called

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managing a nightmare CIA public
affairs and the drug conspiracy

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story, mmm, and mmm.
One of the saddest things it

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reveals is that the CIA didn’t
have to do all that much right,

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to put this story down, they
already had pre-existing

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relationships.
Yeah, the author of the article,

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Nicholas Doom of itch.
Who is a CIA staffer at the

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time, calls it, quote, a ground
base of already, productive

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relations with journalists and
quote, and that alone really

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tempered the reaction to this
story.

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There were just some Outlets
that were like, yeah, I trust

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the CIA when they say this
didn’t happen.

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So we’re not going to touch this
story.

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Cool, which I mean, this is 1996
when this happened, there’s no

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way that’s not still.
Happening right?

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No, absolutely not.
Do this is I don’t get the sense

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that anything has changed from
that time.

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You know, if anything it’s
gotten worse since 9/11.

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Yeah, the two examples I use all
the time from recent history

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that I don’t know if we even
covered either of them on this

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podcast, which is weird.
I know we’ve talked about him on

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pops but there were two
different stories.

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One was almost exclusively
reported by Yahoo.

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News and not at all, followed up
by the New York Times,

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Washington Post any of them, but
it was a story about how the US

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Postal inspection service.
One of the things they do now is

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Monitor social media accounts
for inflammatory posts or things

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that could, you know, turn into
a problem.

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Cool.
And people hear that in the

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first thing they think is the US
Postal inspection service.

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Who is that the post office has
Cops and they’re good.

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They’re really good.
They are one of our better

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intelligence agencies and their
one of their main roles now is

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monitoring your social media and
that was only reported by Yahoo

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news which is nuts.
Yeah.

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And then there was another story
about how the Department of

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Defense over the past I think
like 10 years or so, has been

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compiling this network of
American spies that are spying

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on Americans like there.
Setting up fake personas online

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and infiltrating Industries,
like, I guarantee some of them

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are La Comics, there’s no
fucking way, that’s not the

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case.
And there’s something like

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30,000 of them, which is more
undercover operatives than the

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CIA has.
Yeah.

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And they’re all operating
domestically and that was only

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reported by Newsweek.
Right, how is that not?

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And it’s not like it wasn’t a
Gary Webb thing where they were

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Newsweek heard about this.
From a dude in a prison in

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Nicaragua, right, right, right.
Like they had proof of this.

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Like this was just a thing that
leaked, right?

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And no one touched it, but
Newsweek.

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And that like again I say it all
the time, they’re not

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necessarily the enemy of the
people but the mainstream media

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also doesn’t do us a ton of
favors in situations like this?

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Yeah, it is this especially when
it comes to American

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intelligence agencies America’s
intelligence agencies or

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American corporations that
spread around a lot of

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advertising money.
Yeah, McDonald’s.

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For example, McDonald’s, the
target of the first me to action

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against an American corporation.
Remember hearing about that in

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the mainstream news.
No didn’t get reported.

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No and my you know then we’d
have things like the story that

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inspired the movie The Insider
about the You know the tobacco

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companies like that that was
like a whole controversy like

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these things are easy to swing
you know like it’s easy.

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There’s there’s an invested
interest in a lot of these

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institutions to keep certain
things from public.

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Yeah and it seems like in the
case of Gary Webb when it wasn’t

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just straight-up government
bootlicking, a lot of the

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response came down to jealousy.
Yeah.

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Because this was the San Jose
Mercury News.

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Which I mean San Jose is not the
smallest city.

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They have, they have a hockey
franchise for fuck’s sake.

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It’s a very large local Daily
Newspaper but it’s still a local

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Daily Newspaper.
It’s not the LA Times, it’s not,

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00:12:16,900 –> 00:12:19,100
you know, it’s not even the
Sacramento Bee.

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It’s like much smaller.
Yeah.

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And when you think about how it
was published the LA Times

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especially got scooped in their
own backyard like this story,

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Happened in.
L.a. yeah, LA and San Francisco

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and they got scooped, but also
if you were on Jeopardy right

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now and the question came up,
what California news Outlet was

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the first to simultaneously
published in major investigative

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Piece online and in print, your
answer would probably be the LA

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Times if you were guessing.
Yeah.

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Or like the New York Times or
something like I said,

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California Olivia attention to
the I’m lazy.

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I’m sorry.
This is why you’re not going to

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win and Final Jeopardy.
You’re right.

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We’ve been over this.
It’s actually exactly why but

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you would think it would be the
LA Times, that would be on The

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Cutting Edge of some shit like
that ours but they got scooped

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in that way to San Jose, Mercury
News and yeah it’s a quote Gary

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00:13:21,100 –> 00:13:24,000
Webb at the time.
You don’t have to be the New

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York Times or the Washington
Post the bust.

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A national story anymore.
Yeah.

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00:13:29,200 –> 00:13:33,600
And And this is the first story
that prove that, and they did

220
00:13:33,600 –> 00:13:36,600
not take kindly to it at all.
No, yeah, no.

221
00:13:36,600 –> 00:13:41,000
And the other big thing is he
published his sources online, as

222
00:13:41,000 –> 00:13:44,100
well with Refuge that nobody hit
literally.

223
00:13:44,100 –> 00:13:46,200
No one had ever done that
before.

224
00:13:46,300 –> 00:13:49,200
And no one really knew how to
react to that.

225
00:13:49,300 –> 00:13:54,000
And yeah, there just was very
quickly, a kind of concerted

226
00:13:54,000 –> 00:13:59,600
effort to discredit these
stories without really much

227
00:13:59,800 –> 00:14:03,300
Federation for whether or not
they might be true, right?

228
00:14:03,400 –> 00:14:07,200
And you’re right that, it
happened very quickly, but only

229
00:14:07,200 –> 00:14:11,400
after these Outlets were kind of
forced to respond.

230
00:14:11,400 –> 00:14:15,100
Yeah, because the first thing
that happens if you read the

231
00:14:15,100 –> 00:14:18,500
Columbia journalism review
article, the first thing it

232
00:14:18,500 –> 00:14:22,100
mentions is that Gary Webb was
really surprised by how little

233
00:14:22,100 –> 00:14:26,400
attention this story got, at
first, like it was, as we

234
00:14:26,400 –> 00:14:31,500
mentioned on the last episode,
like, Can media outlets, right?

235
00:14:31,500 –> 00:14:35,100
Really latched onto it for yes,
obvious reasons.

236
00:14:35,300 –> 00:14:39,400
But beyond that, like the
Washington Post New York Times,

237
00:14:39,400 –> 00:14:42,000
things like that.
They didn’t really pay attention

238
00:14:42,000 –> 00:14:44,500
to it.
They were just eventually forced

239
00:14:44,500 –> 00:14:49,500
to write because the people who
were most affected by the

240
00:14:49,500 –> 00:14:53,400
contents of the story were
rightly outraged by what they

241
00:14:53,400 –> 00:14:58,000
were reading and kind of made it
a bigger deal than it, otherwise

242
00:14:58,000 –> 00:15:02,000
might have been, right?
And Then they finally swing into

243
00:15:02,000 –> 00:15:05,700
action, and like we’ve
mentioned, instead of following

244
00:15:05,700 –> 00:15:10,300
up on Gary, Webb’s claims, they
just one writer for the LA Times

245
00:15:10,300 –> 00:15:13,200
described it as the get Gary
Webb team.

246
00:15:13,300 –> 00:15:19,600
Yes, the LA Times assembled, a
team of 17, people just to look

247
00:15:19,600 –> 00:15:22,900
into his reporting.
Not to look into the claims he

248
00:15:22,900 –> 00:15:24,300
reported on.
Yeah.

249
00:15:24,700 –> 00:15:27,000
Yeah which is wild.
That’s insane.

250
00:15:27,100 –> 00:15:29,500
That’s that.
Like, that’s kind of hard.

251
00:15:29,700 –> 00:15:35,900
To even fathom, like 17 people
all working to discredit.

252
00:15:35,900 –> 00:15:39,600
This one story is kind of
insane.

253
00:15:39,600 –> 00:15:42,900
And like most of these Outlets,
like the Washington Post, I

254
00:15:42,900 –> 00:15:46,400
think was the first place to
really push back.

255
00:15:46,600 –> 00:15:50,600
And, you know, so much of their
claim is like well, his sources

256
00:15:50,600 –> 00:15:55,300
are like criminals and these
shitty dudes like no one who’s

257
00:15:55,300 –> 00:15:59,600
really like reputable.
But all of their sources are the

258
00:15:59,700 –> 00:16:02,200
Can CIA.
Yeah, I don’t understand how

259
00:16:02,200 –> 00:16:07,600
that when you’re talking about a
story that is puts the CIA in a

260
00:16:07,608 –> 00:16:11,100
negative light.
I don’t understand how a CIA

261
00:16:11,100 –> 00:16:15,200
Source has more credibility on
this subject.

262
00:16:15,300 –> 00:16:17,300
Yeah.
It’s the same thing that came up

263
00:16:17,300 –> 00:16:21,400
in the Ruth Paine episode about,
right?

264
00:16:21,500 –> 00:16:25,800
JFK conspiracy theorists and the
people on the Warren Commission.

265
00:16:25,900 –> 00:16:29,200
It’s like, well, yeah, they’re
conspiracy theorist but the

266
00:16:29,200 –> 00:16:31,400
people are On the Warren
Commission, are the people that

267
00:16:31,408 –> 00:16:37,100
everyone thinks did it like of
course, no one fucking trust

268
00:16:37,100 –> 00:16:40,700
them, right?
And yeah, with the Washington

269
00:16:40,700 –> 00:16:43,600
Post, especially their one of
the outlets, where, at least one

270
00:16:43,600 –> 00:16:46,700
of their reporters was like
there’s something here we should

271
00:16:46,700 –> 00:16:49,800
look into like, right?
It’s not nothing.

272
00:16:49,800 –> 00:16:54,800
I think they even got a couple
of like backup sources and the

273
00:16:54,800 –> 00:16:57,700
Washington Post the like the
person in charge of making the

274
00:16:57,700 –> 00:17:00,300
decision was like, yeah.
But I got the Telling me it’s

275
00:17:00,300 –> 00:17:04,200
not true, right?
And it’s like you respect the

276
00:17:04,200 –> 00:17:06,800
CIA that much.
Well, you know, we got to

277
00:17:06,800 –> 00:17:10,099
maintain our relationship with
Langley like that’s like such a

278
00:17:10,099 –> 00:17:14,800
huge especially in Washington.
That’s like such a huge meal

279
00:17:14,800 –> 00:17:18,000
ticket and it’s like no you
don’t you should have no

280
00:17:18,000 –> 00:17:22,800
relationship, that’s what the
me, I absolutely absolutely.

281
00:17:24,200 –> 00:17:26,900
But yeah, that that was the
course of action.

282
00:17:26,900 –> 00:17:30,700
The Washington Post took they
just went with The CIA denials

283
00:17:30,700 –> 00:17:32,700
and they were like, yeah.
Are you going to believe a bunch

284
00:17:32,700 –> 00:17:34,300
of criminals?
You can’t believe the CIA?

285
00:17:34,400 –> 00:17:36,400
And it’s like, they’re all
criminals.

286
00:17:37,900 –> 00:17:40,900
Like that’s, that’s a trick
question sir, right?

287
00:17:40,900 –> 00:17:46,500
Yeah.
So the LA Times ends up.

288
00:17:46,500 –> 00:17:49,400
Writing more words about Gary,
Webb’s reporting then.

289
00:17:49,400 –> 00:17:53,900
Gary Webb wrote about the CIA
selling crack in Los Angeles.

290
00:17:54,300 –> 00:17:56,500
Yeah.
Which is actually a huge bummer.

291
00:17:56,600 –> 00:17:58,300
Yes.
It’s an absolute bummer.

292
00:17:58,300 –> 00:18:00,600
He definitely, I mean, yeah.
Maybe he should have written

293
00:18:00,600 –> 00:18:03,700
more words that I’d be, but I
also like those three articles,

294
00:18:03,700 –> 00:18:06,000
basically, cover cover the whole
thing.

295
00:18:06,300 –> 00:18:09,100
Yeah, you know, he basically
said all he needs to say, but ya

296
00:18:09,100 –> 00:18:12,100
know like and there, you know,
that’s place that had the

297
00:18:12,100 –> 00:18:17,700
massive team and it really was
it just seemed personal for the

298
00:18:17,700 –> 00:18:22,000
especially for the LA Times,
They really seem like you rarely

299
00:18:22,000 –> 00:18:26,800
get the sense of a publication
being embarrassed but that’s

300
00:18:26,800 –> 00:18:29,500
kind of the sense you get when
you read their takedowns.

301
00:18:29,600 –> 00:18:31,700
It’s yeah.
And they should have been

302
00:18:31,700 –> 00:18:34,200
embarrassed.
Yes, absolutely.

303
00:18:34,500 –> 00:18:37,100
Like there’s there’s no reason
they shouldn’t have picked up

304
00:18:37,100 –> 00:18:41,000
this store because he didn’t
give a shit about what was

305
00:18:41,000 –> 00:18:43,700
happening in their own town
because it was happening to

306
00:18:43,700 –> 00:18:45,500
people that they didn’t care
about.

307
00:18:45,600 –> 00:18:50,200
Yeah, this CIA in-house.
Publication brings up how

308
00:18:50,200 –> 00:18:55,000
obviously helpful all of this
was because it again, it’s not

309
00:18:55,000 –> 00:18:57,800
like it wasn’t being covered by
anyone.

310
00:18:57,900 –> 00:18:59,500
It’s just the outlets that
mattered.

311
00:18:59,800 –> 00:19:02,700
Weren’t covering it and then
when they finally did they

312
00:19:02,700 –> 00:19:05,200
covered it from the angle of, oh
well, this is bullshit.

313
00:19:05,300 –> 00:19:08,800
And in some circles that’s still
the opinion, I think he had a

314
00:19:08,800 –> 00:19:12,200
still.
The overall opinion is that Gary

315
00:19:12,200 –> 00:19:15,200
webs reporting?
Like the story itself was

316
00:19:15,200 –> 00:19:18,900
completely discredited, right?
And that’s just not true.

317
00:19:19,000 –> 00:19:21,300
Like, no, not sure if you dig
into it.

318
00:19:21,800 –> 00:19:24,100
This is a quote from that CIA
publication.

319
00:19:24,100 –> 00:19:27,100
They’re talking about the
Washington Post here because of

320
00:19:27,100 –> 00:19:31,000
the posts National reputation.
It’s Articles especially were

321
00:19:31,000 –> 00:19:34,400
picked up by other papers
helping to create what the

322
00:19:34,400 –> 00:19:39,100
Associated Press called, a
firestorm of reaction against

323
00:19:39,100 –> 00:19:43,600
the San Jose, Mercury News, and
quote, and it also notes that

324
00:19:43,600 –> 00:19:47,800
within two months, the entire
tone of the coverage of the

325
00:19:47,800 –> 00:19:50,900
story changed.
Yeah, it went from what Gary

326
00:19:50,900 –> 00:19:54,600
Webb reported to Gary Webb
exactly.

327
00:19:54,600 –> 00:19:57,500
And it became all about him
which is what again, what

328
00:19:57,500 –> 00:20:01,700
happens so often with not Just
with reporters but with

329
00:20:01,700 –> 00:20:04,700
whistleblowers and that sort of
thing, like it’s such a common

330
00:20:04,700 –> 00:20:05,900
tactic.
Yeah.

331
00:20:05,900 –> 00:20:10,400
And as we mentioned before, a
lot of this stuff was covered in

332
00:20:10,400 –> 00:20:15,000
media Outlets previously, mmm
but it was most significantly

333
00:20:15,000 –> 00:20:18,900
covered by that huge carry
committee investigation, right?

334
00:20:18,900 –> 00:20:22,000
Ultimately released in Eleven
Hundred page.

335
00:20:22,000 –> 00:20:26,300
Report about us intelligence
looking the other way when it

336
00:20:26,300 –> 00:20:29,800
comes to drug trafficking and
that was essentially Gary web

337
00:20:29,800 –> 00:20:32,600
story to exactly.
But I guess if you’re the

338
00:20:32,600 –> 00:20:36,400
Washington Post in this case
it’s clearly coming from a more

339
00:20:36,400 –> 00:20:39,500
reputable Source.
Like right one, you trust more

340
00:20:39,500 –> 00:20:43,500
than Gary Webb but the response
from those three Outlets to that

341
00:20:43,500 –> 00:20:45,700
story.
The Washington Post ran a story

342
00:20:45,700 –> 00:20:51,100
on the 20th page that focused
mostly on the infighting within

343
00:20:51,100 –> 00:20:53,400
the committee.
The New York Times ran a very

344
00:20:53,400 –> 00:20:58,000
short article on the eighth page
of their paper and the LA Times

345
00:20:58,900 –> 00:21:05,200
dedicated. 589 words.
Whoa, to and 11 100-page report

346
00:21:05,200 –> 00:21:08,200
about us.
Intelligence ignoring drug

347
00:21:08,200 –> 00:21:11,500
smuggling operations that were
funding what they’re doing in

348
00:21:11,500 –> 00:21:14,400
South America, like a word for
every other page.

349
00:21:14,600 –> 00:21:18,900
Yeah.
And again like, I think that

350
00:21:18,900 –> 00:21:23,100
speaks to those relationships.
The CIA has with these media

351
00:21:23,100 –> 00:21:24,600
Outlets.
Absolutely.

352
00:21:24,700 –> 00:21:26,900
Like they can explain away.
Why?

353
00:21:27,000 –> 00:21:29,400
They didn’t take Gary webs
version of the story.

354
00:21:29,500 –> 00:21:32,400
Three seriously.
But what’s the explanation for

355
00:21:32,400 –> 00:21:36,000
not taking the carry
investigation, seriously, right?

356
00:21:36,000 –> 00:21:39,700
Yeah, absolutely.
Like it was there was a lot of I

357
00:21:39,700 –> 00:21:43,700
think Vindication within that
report you know, maybe not

358
00:21:43,700 –> 00:21:47,400
explicitly of the exact same
situations that Webb was talking

359
00:21:47,400 –> 00:21:49,800
about but it reveals a trend,
right?

360
00:21:50,200 –> 00:21:55,300
A trend of how the organization
works yeah that you can easily

361
00:21:55,300 –> 00:21:58,500
apply to the dark Alliance
controversy.

362
00:21:58,600 –> 00:22:02,700
Yeah, again, these Three
Outlets, they wrote over 30,000

363
00:22:02,700 –> 00:22:08,200
words, just about Gary Webb’s
reporting and almost none on

364
00:22:08,200 –> 00:22:12,000
these allegations.
Yeah it is a dark moment in

365
00:22:12,000 –> 00:22:16,100
American history and it’s an
underrated dark moment in

366
00:22:16,100 –> 00:22:20,300
American history, like
absolutely this kind of became

367
00:22:20,300 –> 00:22:24,000
the government strategy.
Like, it seems like this is how

368
00:22:24,000 –> 00:22:28,500
the government fights news.
It doesn’t want printed, it just

369
00:22:28,500 –> 00:22:34,000
goes to The biggest outlets and
says something, we don’t know

370
00:22:34,000 –> 00:22:36,500
what.
Yeah, but they say something and

371
00:22:36,500 –> 00:22:40,700
these stories don’t get covered.
Whether there’s a Gary Webb

372
00:22:40,700 –> 00:22:45,000
involved or not, right?
And yeah, it seems like the only

373
00:22:45,000 –> 00:22:49,500
reason they had to go after Gary
Webb is because the internet was

374
00:22:49,500 –> 00:22:51,800
involved, and it allowed the
story to spread.

375
00:22:51,800 –> 00:22:54,200
Exactly, didn’t let the story
die.

376
00:22:54,300 –> 00:22:57,400
It wasn’t contained in the way
that something that would have

377
00:22:57,400 –> 00:23:02,400
been only on the pages of the
San Jose Mercury News, you know

378
00:23:02,400 –> 00:23:06,000
might have been yeah.
And the Columbia journalism

379
00:23:06,000 –> 00:23:09,700
review article that will link to
again is from 1997.

380
00:23:09,700 –> 00:23:13,200
Just a few months after the dark
Alliance stories were published,

381
00:23:13,200 –> 00:23:16,200
and it gets more into the
specifics of each of the big

382
00:23:16,200 –> 00:23:18,700
three Outlets response to that
story.

383
00:23:18,900 –> 00:23:22,700
It notes that CIA drug
trafficking connections were

384
00:23:22,700 –> 00:23:25,900
historically a thing.
Mainstream Outlets treated like

385
00:23:25,900 –> 00:23:29,400
a non-story go figure.
I love care.

386
00:23:29,500 –> 00:23:35,200
There’s, I love this example,
they cite a 1987 press

387
00:23:35,200 –> 00:23:38,900
conference where the
government’s final report on the

388
00:23:38,900 –> 00:23:43,300
Iran-Contra Affair was released
and investigative journalist

389
00:23:43,300 –> 00:23:46,900
stood up and asked the lead
investigator if they’d found any

390
00:23:46,900 –> 00:23:50,700
connection between the contras
and drug smuggling.

391
00:23:50,700 –> 00:23:54,800
And when he did a New York Times
Reporter, screamed, why don’t

392
00:23:54,800 –> 00:23:58,200
you ask a serious question?
Like cool.

393
00:23:58,200 –> 00:24:01,200
Fuck you bub.
Seriously Jesus.

394
00:24:01,200 –> 00:24:03,900
What the hell?
Like that’s just I mean that’s

395
00:24:03,900 –> 00:24:07,600
just a professional.
What it is anything like a mon

396
00:24:07,600 –> 00:24:10,200
man?
Yeah, and it’s like how much of

397
00:24:10,200 –> 00:24:13,000
a government bootlicker are you
right?

398
00:24:13,000 –> 00:24:17,200
Like how it like that mad?
It’s someone great questioning

399
00:24:17,200 –> 00:24:19,400
the CIA.
Fuck you.

400
00:24:19,400 –> 00:24:23,800
Are you laying the CIA bitch?
Was he like saying it with like

401
00:24:23,800 –> 00:24:26,800
a clown nose on and like squeaky
shoes.

402
00:24:26,800 –> 00:24:30,200
It’s like, you know, maybe it
made it seem like Like a not

403
00:24:30,200 –> 00:24:34,100
serious question to ask about
the cia’s relations to drug

404
00:24:34,100 –> 00:24:35,500
dealers.
I don’t know.

405
00:24:36,000 –> 00:24:37,600
I really is.
Otherwise seems like a pretty

406
00:24:37,600 –> 00:24:39,600
straightforward.
Serious question.

407
00:24:39,600 –> 00:24:41,400
Did it?
No wacky accent?

408
00:24:42,800 –> 00:24:48,700
Yeah, it was actually Borat, got
up at the press conference.

409
00:24:48,700 –> 00:24:50,200
The people were like, come on,
man.

410
00:24:50,200 –> 00:24:54,000
These like no I’m doing real
journalism for Kazakhstan.

411
00:24:54,300 –> 00:24:58,300
So it stands to reason that when
the mainstream Outlets got hold

412
00:24:58,300 –> 00:25:01,200
of this story, they Paid no
attention to the drug

413
00:25:01,200 –> 00:25:04,800
trafficking connections.
Again write the Washington Post

414
00:25:04,800 –> 00:25:08,300
again, they were the first to
respond their opinion basically

415
00:25:08,300 –> 00:25:10,900
boils down to available
information.

416
00:25:10,900 –> 00:25:14,900
Does not support the conclusion
that the CIA backed contras or

417
00:25:14,900 –> 00:25:19,600
nicaraguans in general played a
major role in the emergence of

418
00:25:19,600 –> 00:25:24,300
crack as a narcotic in
widespread use across the United

419
00:25:24,300 –> 00:25:27,300
States.
And quote, that is a very weird

420
00:25:27,300 –> 00:25:31,300
Flex because Gary webs article
About crack in California,

421
00:25:31,500 –> 00:25:33,900
right?
Like that’s like yeah the horse

422
00:25:33,900 –> 00:25:36,600
it doesn’t support that this is
the whole thing.

423
00:25:36,600 –> 00:25:41,600
Like there’s so much putting
words in the Articles mouth that

424
00:25:41,600 –> 00:25:45,500
aren’t there making saying that
it’s making claims that it’s not

425
00:25:45,500 –> 00:25:49,800
making it is very depressing
available information does not

426
00:25:49,800 –> 00:25:51,000
support.
Yeah well this is new

427
00:25:51,000 –> 00:25:55,700
information like yeah this is of
course not like this is the

428
00:25:55,700 –> 00:25:57,400
first time it’s being reported
on it.

429
00:25:57,400 –> 00:26:00,200
So you know I’m saying our Our
files.

430
00:26:00,300 –> 00:26:05,400
We would know where the yeah,
our CIA liaison said that this

431
00:26:05,400 –> 00:26:08,500
is all bullshit and so we trust
that guy we go golfing with him

432
00:26:08,500 –> 00:26:10,600
every weekend.
And the other thing is we

433
00:26:10,600 –> 00:26:13,700
mentioned this a little bit at
the end of the last episode, but

434
00:26:13,700 –> 00:26:17,600
the Washington Post and all of
the other outlets engaged in the

435
00:26:17,600 –> 00:26:21,200
exact kind of thing.
They were accusing Gary Webb of

436
00:26:21,200 –> 00:26:24,600
doing, right?
One of the things, Gary Webb was

437
00:26:24,600 –> 00:26:27,900
accused of their, well, not even
accused of this, it’s a thing.

438
00:26:27,900 –> 00:26:31,600
Gary Webb Did in the Dark Alley.
It’s articles, he leans on a

439
00:26:31,600 –> 00:26:34,500
court, document about Danilo
Blandon.

440
00:26:34,600 –> 00:26:38,100
That says, quote, he will admit
that, he was a large-scale

441
00:26:38,100 –> 00:26:41,900
dealer in cocaine and there is
no additional benefit to any

442
00:26:41,900 –> 00:26:45,800
defendant to inquire as to the
Central Intelligence Agency and

443
00:26:45,800 –> 00:26:49,100
quote and without any other
context that sounds like

444
00:26:49,100 –> 00:26:53,900
someone’s being told to not
bring up the CIA right?

445
00:26:53,900 –> 00:26:58,600
But he left out a few other
sentences that make it clear

446
00:26:58,600 –> 00:27:01,800
that what the prosecutor.
Lucien was saying is that they

447
00:27:01,800 –> 00:27:04,700
thought he was bringing that up
to like scare them away from

448
00:27:04,700 –> 00:27:08,000
even going forward with the case
and that like you can bring it

449
00:27:08,000 –> 00:27:10,100
up all you want.
We’re still going to go forward

450
00:27:10,100 –> 00:27:13,700
with the case, right?
And that’s definitely an error

451
00:27:13,700 –> 00:27:16,600
in Gary webs reporting.
That is worth calling out.

452
00:27:16,600 –> 00:27:18,200
Yeah.
But then the Washington Post

453
00:27:18,200 –> 00:27:21,000
does the exact same thing in
their reporting.

454
00:27:21,200 –> 00:27:23,600
They lean on this one, bit of
Court.

455
00:27:23,600 –> 00:27:28,700
Testimony that makes it seem
like Danilo Blandon, owns drug

456
00:27:28,800 –> 00:27:32,500
activity.
Only benefited the contras up

457
00:27:32,500 –> 00:27:38,000
until 1982 right, which for the
purposes of Gary Webb story does

458
00:27:38,000 –> 00:27:42,300
not fit the timeline and it
would legitimately discredit

459
00:27:42,300 –> 00:27:44,500
everything Gary Webb said,
right?

460
00:27:44,500 –> 00:27:48,800
But there is other evidence
available to Gary Webb.

461
00:27:48,800 –> 00:27:52,300
And anyone else who research
this, that didn’t elope land

462
00:27:52,300 –> 00:27:56,100
owns drug smuggling actually
benefited the contras deep into

463
00:27:56,100 –> 00:27:58,200
1986.
Yeah.

464
00:27:58,400 –> 00:28:01,800
And in that case, Case Gary,
Webb story, still works of

465
00:28:01,808 –> 00:28:05,600
course but the Washington Post
just ignored that part and said

466
00:28:05,600 –> 00:28:08,400
see in court.
He said he only help the contras

467
00:28:08,400 –> 00:28:11,500
until 1982 and that’s exactly
what they were accusing Gary

468
00:28:11,500 –> 00:28:15,000
Webb of doing exactly.
Yeah, it’s that selective, you

469
00:28:15,000 –> 00:28:18,400
know, editing it’s really it’s
really annoying.

470
00:28:18,600 –> 00:28:23,700
And yeah, like there is so much
Apopka, see it play in a lot of

471
00:28:23,700 –> 00:28:27,600
these rebukes.
The Washington Post is also the

472
00:28:27,600 –> 00:28:32,200
outlet that coupled Story with
an article about why black

473
00:28:32,200 –> 00:28:35,700
people are so susceptible to
believe in conspiracy theory

474
00:28:35,700 –> 00:28:39,900
sense which again, speaking to
the cia’s point about how

475
00:28:39,900 –> 00:28:42,900
helpful that must have been for
them, right?

476
00:28:43,200 –> 00:28:44,400
Yeah.
They’re like well we didn’t even

477
00:28:44,400 –> 00:28:45,700
ask for this.
That’s great.

478
00:28:45,700 –> 00:28:48,200
Thanks guys.
The own above and beyond like

479
00:28:48,200 –> 00:28:52,200
just throwing that whole racial
wedge in there.

480
00:28:52,400 –> 00:28:55,600
Geez, top it all off.
That’s just so gross.

481
00:28:55,700 –> 00:28:59,300
Gross, the New York Times They
were also pretty dismal.

482
00:28:59,400 –> 00:29:01,500
Missive.
But they weren’t quite as mean

483
00:29:01,500 –> 00:29:03,600
about it, right?
But it wouldn’t have mattered

484
00:29:03,600 –> 00:29:07,600
because their article came out
the same day as the LA Times

485
00:29:07,600 –> 00:29:09,400
article.
The right?

486
00:29:09,400 –> 00:29:11,500
I think the LA Times actually
put out a couple.

487
00:29:11,500 –> 00:29:15,200
Oh, yeah, multiple.
And again, as mentioned before,

488
00:29:15,200 –> 00:29:20,700
face the LA Times, writes more
words about Gary Webb, then he

489
00:29:20,700 –> 00:29:25,500
wrote about the CIA, which is
not me, criticizing Gary Webb.

490
00:29:25,500 –> 00:29:29,300
It’s me, criticizing them
because that would stand to

491
00:29:29,300 –> 00:29:31,400
reason.
He’s in if a lot of those words

492
00:29:31,400 –> 00:29:35,000
were also about the CIA and
their crack connections and then

493
00:29:35,000 –> 00:29:37,900
stuff about Gary Webb.
But no, it was just all Gary

494
00:29:37,900 –> 00:29:40,700
Webb, right?
None of the CIA stuff.

495
00:29:40,900 –> 00:29:43,500
They also fall into those same
traps.

496
00:29:43,500 –> 00:29:46,300
This is the example.
We brought up at the end of the

497
00:29:46,300 –> 00:29:50,000
last episode.
Jesse cats, he was in LA Times

498
00:29:50,000 –> 00:29:53,100
Reporter.
He’s the one who took issue with

499
00:29:53,200 –> 00:29:57,700
Gary Webb claiming that Ricky
Ross, was a huge drug dealer who

500
00:29:57,800 –> 00:30:00,400
like helped kickstart.
Art the crack epidemic.

501
00:30:00,400 –> 00:30:04,800
This is one of his quotes about
that in his criticisms about

502
00:30:04,800 –> 00:30:07,700
Gary Webb.
Even on the best day Ricky Ross

503
00:30:07,700 –> 00:30:11,700
had, there was way more crack
cocaine out there than he could

504
00:30:11,700 –> 00:30:15,400
ever control and he also quoted
a Narcotics detective.

505
00:30:15,400 –> 00:30:19,200
As saying this how the crack
epidemic reached that extreme on

506
00:30:19,200 –> 00:30:23,200
some level had nothing to do
with Ross before during and

507
00:30:23,200 –> 00:30:27,700
after his Reign a bewildering
roster of other dealers and

508
00:30:27,700 –> 00:30:32,200
suppliers helped fuel the This
and he, and it’s like no one

509
00:30:32,200 –> 00:30:35,300
saying Rick Ross, did it all on
his own.

510
00:30:35,300 –> 00:30:36,200
Right?
No.

511
00:30:36,200 –> 00:30:39,500
That’s just taking one thing and
blowing it totally out of

512
00:30:39,500 –> 00:30:42,600
proportion.
It it also, the makes the de

513
00:30:42,600 –> 00:30:46,100
narcotics, detective sound like
he’s describing Batman’s Rogues

514
00:30:46,100 –> 00:30:52,500
Gallery full well during roster
of other dealers, suppliers.

515
00:30:52,600 –> 00:30:56,300
Yes, I shut up dork.
We know how drug-dealing works.

516
00:30:56,300 –> 00:30:58,700
Why was like a penguin man of
what it looks like?

517
00:30:59,800 –> 00:31:03,300
Like no, they’re just like,
dude, selling crack and people.

518
00:31:03,300 –> 00:31:05,900
Listen and you’ll know the only
point.

519
00:31:05,900 –> 00:31:09,300
They’re taking issue with is how
big of a drug dealer.

520
00:31:09,300 –> 00:31:13,400
Rick Ross was not whether his
connections had connections to

521
00:31:13,400 –> 00:31:18,500
the CIA rather that just just
the adjectives used to describe

522
00:31:18,600 –> 00:31:22,200
Rick Ross, right?
That’s the, the CIA thing isn’t

523
00:31:22,200 –> 00:31:25,100
important here.
We need to talk about how much

524
00:31:25,100 –> 00:31:30,500
crack Rick Ross actually sold
right and This is the part that

525
00:31:30,500 –> 00:31:33,500
I mentioned at the end of the
last episode and I think this

526
00:31:33,500 –> 00:31:36,700
quote deserves being Revisited
on this one.

527
00:31:36,800 –> 00:31:41,900
This was Jesse cats that same
reporter 2 years earlier in 1994

528
00:31:42,300 –> 00:31:47,400
writing about Rick Ross for the
LA Times, here goes, if there

529
00:31:47,400 –> 00:31:50,300
was an eye to the storm.
If there was a criminal

530
00:31:50,300 –> 00:31:54,200
mastermind behind cracks
decade-long rain, if there was

531
00:31:54,200 –> 00:31:59,200
one Outlaw capitalist, most
responsible for flooding loss,

532
00:31:59,400 –> 00:32:02,700
Is Angela streets with
mass-marketed cocaine.

533
00:32:02,800 –> 00:32:07,600
His name was Freeway Rick Ross.
Ricky Donnell.

534
00:32:07,600 –> 00:32:12,300
Ross did more than anyone else
to democratize, crack boosting,

535
00:32:12,300 –> 00:32:16,000
volume slashing prices and
spreading disease on a scale

536
00:32:16,000 –> 00:32:20,000
never before conceived and
quote, but now two years later

537
00:32:20,000 –> 00:32:22,400
he’s like, Ricky Ross, wasn’t
that big.

538
00:32:22,400 –> 00:32:24,400
Yeah.
I mean it’s very funny that

539
00:32:24,400 –> 00:32:30,400
there is such an explicitly like
Direct Hypocrisy there.

540
00:32:30,400 –> 00:32:35,600
Like that’s just very funny.
And with the team of 17 Riders,

541
00:32:36,000 –> 00:32:39,700
how do you put that quote in
that guy’s hands.

542
00:32:39,700 –> 00:32:42,900
Like that’s sloppy work on the
LA Times part?

543
00:32:42,900 –> 00:32:45,600
Not realizing.
Oh, the guy that we’re having

544
00:32:45,600 –> 00:32:49,400
call into question, how big of a
figure Ricky Ross was just two

545
00:32:49,400 –> 00:32:51,300
years ago.
He said Rick Ross was the

546
00:32:51,300 –> 00:32:56,600
biggest breasts shift him to
another position in that 17 man

547
00:32:56,600 –> 00:32:59,200
roster, right?
Like you fucking know.

548
00:32:59,300 –> 00:33:02,800
No, wonder you got scooped on
this story, you nincompoops

549
00:33:02,900 –> 00:33:07,400
hats, he’s our only guy who
works the the crack ring.

550
00:33:07,400 –> 00:33:09,700
He’s the only one who can write
about Rick Ross.

551
00:33:09,900 –> 00:33:18,000
Was he selling crack like to
Jesse cats to his very, very,

552
00:33:18,000 –> 00:33:22,600
very minor credit.
I would like to say, I just

553
00:33:22,600 –> 00:33:25,200
think it needs to be said that
in 2013.

554
00:33:25,400 –> 00:33:29,700
He’s basically one of the only
reporters who actually, Worked

555
00:33:29,700 –> 00:33:32,300
on any of these stories that
were talking about these

556
00:33:32,300 –> 00:33:35,800
backlash stories.
He’s one of the only people who

557
00:33:35,800 –> 00:33:40,700
has come forward and been like
yeah that was probably a little

558
00:33:40,700 –> 00:33:42,900
much.
He has a quote where he says as

559
00:33:42,900 –> 00:33:46,100
an LA Times Reporter we solve
this series in the San Jose

560
00:33:46,100 –> 00:33:49,400
Mercury News and kind of
wondered how legit it was and

561
00:33:49,400 –> 00:33:51,300
kind of put it under a
microscope.

562
00:33:51,400 –> 00:33:54,200
And we did it in a way that most
of us who were involved with in

563
00:33:54,200 –> 00:33:56,600
it.
I think would look back on that

564
00:33:56,600 –> 00:34:00,200
and say it was Overkill we had
this huge Team of people at the

565
00:34:00,200 –> 00:34:05,000
LA Times and kind of piled on,
to one lone muckraker up, in

566
00:34:05,000 –> 00:34:08,300
Northern California, we really
didn’t do anything to advances

567
00:34:08,300 –> 00:34:11,600
work or illuminate much the
story, and it was a really kind

568
00:34:11,600 –> 00:34:14,900
of tawdry exercise and it ruined
that reporters career.

569
00:34:15,000 –> 00:34:16,800
Here’s the thing cool.
Like it’s?

570
00:34:16,800 –> 00:34:19,400
Yeah, well, that he admits that
but I don’t need that

571
00:34:19,400 –> 00:34:21,100
motherfucker to confirm that for
me.

572
00:34:21,199 –> 00:34:24,400
Like that’s a like it’s obvious
from reading what he wrote,

573
00:34:24,400 –> 00:34:27,900
absolutely of all the people.
He’s the one who should be

574
00:34:27,900 –> 00:34:32,900
apologizing because He most
blatantly and intentionally did

575
00:34:32,900 –> 00:34:35,100
not do his job.
Yeah.

576
00:34:35,100 –> 00:34:38,699
Like no, I he should have lost
his fucking job over the high

577
00:34:38,699 –> 00:34:40,199
degree area.
Yeah, absolutely.

578
00:34:40,300 –> 00:34:44,500
I absolutely agree.
I look, I don’t think that this

579
00:34:44,500 –> 00:34:49,300
statement absolves him of any
responsibility whatsoever.

580
00:34:49,500 –> 00:34:53,300
I just think like, it’s
important to note that he is at

581
00:34:53,300 –> 00:34:56,400
least publicly kind of
remorseful.

582
00:34:56,500 –> 00:34:58,800
Yeah.
Like I think that’s good but

583
00:34:58,800 –> 00:35:02,400
like You know, he said this in
twenty thirteen years after the

584
00:35:02,400 –> 00:35:05,400
man died.
So the damage a kind of already

585
00:35:05,400 –> 00:35:08,800
been done and I think there is a
Washington Post reporter out

586
00:35:08,800 –> 00:35:10,700
there also like the ones you
yeah.

587
00:35:10,700 –> 00:35:15,000
Who wanted them to run a story
at least kind of looking into

588
00:35:15,000 –> 00:35:16,900
the allegations.
I think he’s come out also in

589
00:35:16,900 –> 00:35:19,200
been like, man, that’s good.
That’s a lot.

590
00:35:19,200 –> 00:35:20,700
Huh?
Got right.

591
00:35:21,300 –> 00:35:23,500
It’s been a couple but like not
very much.

592
00:35:23,500 –> 00:35:26,800
Considering there were 17 people
on the LA Times.

593
00:35:27,000 –> 00:35:30,800
Yeah, Gary, Webb task force
Laughter them all standing

594
00:35:30,800 –> 00:35:34,900
around with fucking 90s
mustaches, like an Anchorman

595
00:35:34,900 –> 00:35:37,100
going with that escalated
quickly.

596
00:35:40,100 –> 00:35:46,000
You killed that guy with a
trident twice twice.

597
00:35:46,000 –> 00:35:48,800
Its weight in the head.
That’s a reference.

598
00:35:50,600 –> 00:35:52,500
That’s a fun.
Little pop culture reference to

599
00:35:52,500 –> 00:35:55,500
the end of this Fanboy moment
for the people who know this

600
00:35:55,500 –> 00:36:00,000
story.
So that’s the first LA Times

601
00:36:00,000 –> 00:36:03,500
article.
Nobody there.

602
00:36:03,500 –> 00:36:08,800
S brutal article about dark
Alliance had similar problems.

603
00:36:08,800 –> 00:36:11,400
It didn’t call any of the
connections into question.

604
00:36:11,900 –> 00:36:14,500
Those were real.
It just took exception to the

605
00:36:14,500 –> 00:36:17,600
dollar amounts.
They claimed the operation

606
00:36:17,600 –> 00:36:22,200
generated in dark Alliance, the
claim, was that bland own and

607
00:36:22,200 –> 00:36:25,900
Meneses sent Millions to the
contras.

608
00:36:26,000 –> 00:36:29,900
But the LA Times talked to three
unnamed Associates of bland own,

609
00:36:29,900 –> 00:36:32,200
who said the figure was closer
to 50,000.

610
00:36:32,200 –> 00:36:36,800
But again, they were drawing
this based exclusively on the

611
00:36:36,800 –> 00:36:42,000
idea that bland owns connections
to the contras ended in 1982 and

612
00:36:42,000 –> 00:36:46,500
ignoring that evidence that it
carried on until 86, right?

613
00:36:46,500 –> 00:36:50,500
And they’re also like the either
engaging in the same sort of

614
00:36:50,500 –> 00:36:54,400
hypocritical shit.
Where like, how are these two

615
00:36:54,700 –> 00:37:01,100
sources who are close to Bland
on and menaces?

616
00:37:01,700 –> 00:37:06,000
Isaiah more, reputable Source
than the actual people, that

617
00:37:06,000 –> 00:37:09,500
that Gary Webb talk to ya, like
I don’t understand how you’re

618
00:37:09,500 –> 00:37:14,600
not, they’re not making a case
for their sources being stronger

619
00:37:14,800 –> 00:37:19,400
or they’re just relying on their
papers greater reputation.

620
00:37:19,500 –> 00:37:21,600
Yeah, they didn’t even know,
they didn’t even name the

621
00:37:21,600 –> 00:37:25,600
sources know, and in the end,
you know, it didn’t really

622
00:37:25,600 –> 00:37:30,000
matter because they won like the
big three won this argument, the

623
00:37:30,008 –> 00:37:34,200
Mercury News, Did stick with
Gary Webb for a while.

624
00:37:34,200 –> 00:37:38,100
Hmm, executive editor Jerome,
suppose wrote a letter to the

625
00:37:38,100 –> 00:37:42,100
Washington Post defending, the
series, they refused to publish

626
00:37:42,100 –> 00:37:45,700
it, which that is highly shady
and that’s the thing.

627
00:37:45,700 –> 00:37:49,200
If you dig deeper into this
there were people at the

628
00:37:49,200 –> 00:37:51,300
Washington Post who were like,
fuck that.

629
00:37:51,400 –> 00:37:54,500
That is not cool.
But they still didn’t they never

630
00:37:54,500 –> 00:37:56,300
published it?
Which is nuts.

631
00:37:56,300 –> 00:38:00,200
It really is like, this is just,
it’s so disrespectful.

632
00:38:00,200 –> 00:38:03,000
Yeah.
And He also did interviews

633
00:38:03,000 –> 00:38:06,400
Jerome suppose did interviews
with all three outlets and

634
00:38:06,400 –> 00:38:10,100
defended the stories.
But eventually the pressure got

635
00:38:10,100 –> 00:38:15,500
to be too much and after a bunch
of Articles where San Jose

636
00:38:15,500 –> 00:38:19,700
Mercury basically had one of
their reporters investigate the

637
00:38:19,700 –> 00:38:23,300
claims made against Gary Webb.
Yeah.

638
00:38:23,600 –> 00:38:27,600
In terms of his reporting and
then they publish that, right?

639
00:38:27,600 –> 00:38:30,700
And eventually they just wrote
an article saying that it didn’t

640
00:38:30,700 –> 00:38:34,700
meet our standards, right?
And again, none of these are

641
00:38:34,900 –> 00:38:40,200
investigating the actual claims
made within dark Alliance.

642
00:38:40,200 –> 00:38:45,600
They are investigating the
claims about Gary Webb made by

643
00:38:45,700 –> 00:38:50,200
these other outlets, right?
And what everyone ignored when

644
00:38:50,200 –> 00:38:54,200
it came to the San Jose Mercury,
is response is Gary Webb was a

645
00:38:54,200 –> 00:38:56,400
reporter.
He wasn’t any editor.

646
00:38:56,700 –> 00:38:58,700
No.
So he wrote this story and then

647
00:38:58,800 –> 00:39:01,200
slid, it across the table to
someone else.

648
00:39:01,600 –> 00:39:04,900
Whose job it was to make sure it
met those standards.

649
00:39:05,000 –> 00:39:06,900
Exactly.
And now here was those same

650
00:39:06,900 –> 00:39:10,500
people going, oh, Gary Webb
really fucked up and got this in

651
00:39:10,500 –> 00:39:13,600
under our nose.
And it’s like, no, he didn’t

652
00:39:13,600 –> 00:39:16,300
like, you know, how much work he
put into this.

653
00:39:16,300 –> 00:39:20,800
Like you signed off on the work
and so much of it comes down to

654
00:39:20,800 –> 00:39:23,800
him not having a CIA Source.
Yeah.

655
00:39:23,800 –> 00:39:27,000
And it’s like, why would you ask
the CIA about this ad?

656
00:39:27,000 –> 00:39:28,800
Wouldn’t lie?
What are they going to say?

657
00:39:29,100 –> 00:39:32,700
Like, what’s there to gain from
that other than Just having

658
00:39:32,700 –> 00:39:36,800
someone say no comment or what.
Yeah and then people can just

659
00:39:36,800 –> 00:39:38,300
point and go.
Well the CIA said it didn’t

660
00:39:38,300 –> 00:39:40,900
happen it’s like a horse they’re
not going to be like how you’ve

661
00:39:40,900 –> 00:39:42,700
got me.
Oh whoops.

662
00:39:43,000 –> 00:39:44,500
Try that out.
Come on.

663
00:39:45,300 –> 00:39:50,000
So he eventually resigned from
the paper in November 1997.

664
00:39:50,000 –> 00:39:54,800
Yeah and he was never able to
get another job with a major

665
00:39:54,800 –> 00:40:00,300
publication and from there, one
of the things that happened in

666
00:40:00,300 –> 00:40:04,400
response to dark Alliance is
Maxine Waters, especially was so

667
00:40:04,400 –> 00:40:08,600
vocal about the need for this to
be investigated that three

668
00:40:08,600 –> 00:40:11,300
different government
investigations were launched

669
00:40:11,300 –> 00:40:14,200
into this.
But also like if the New York

670
00:40:14,200 –> 00:40:16,000
Times isn’t going to be Honest
about it.

671
00:40:16,000 –> 00:40:19,100
You can’t really expect the
government to be super honest

672
00:40:19,100 –> 00:40:20,800
about it, either, right?
Right.

673
00:40:20,800 –> 00:40:27,200
But there were some references
in the CIA report that were very

674
00:40:27,200 –> 00:40:32,700
interesting and the CIA report
it seems unlikely that the CIA

675
00:40:32,700 –> 00:40:37,100
report would be the most honest.
But you have to take into

676
00:40:37,100 –> 00:40:42,000
account how the CIA works.
There are very secretive outfit,

677
00:40:42,100 –> 00:40:45,100
very compartmentalized, like
just because you work at the

678
00:40:45,100 –> 00:40:48,600
CIA, CIA doesn’t mean you know
what the other person who works

679
00:40:48,600 –> 00:40:54,800
at the CIA as doing.
So sometimes there are actual

680
00:40:54,900 –> 00:40:57,500
investigations that come out of
the CIA where they’re like what

681
00:40:57,500 –> 00:41:00,400
the fuck guys like it’s a big
organization.

682
00:41:00,400 –> 00:41:02,900
Not everyone is going to be pure
evil.

683
00:41:03,200 –> 00:41:07,100
Right there will be some people
who are you know like like the

684
00:41:07,100 –> 00:41:10,500
McCartney of the group making
sure the outlandish stuff gets

685
00:41:10,500 –> 00:41:12,400
you know tampered down just a
little bit.

686
00:41:12,400 –> 00:41:15,900
Like once you go solo you can do
all the crazy shit but Exactly

687
00:41:16,200 –> 00:41:20,700
every CIA team needs a Ringo.
Exactly.

688
00:41:20,700 –> 00:41:25,200
And the CIA report does have a
lot of very interesting details

689
00:41:25,200 –> 00:41:28,000
that I’m sorry.
They do seem like they confirm

690
00:41:28,000 –> 00:41:31,500
Gary Webb story.
Yes, the problem is it was

691
00:41:31,500 –> 00:41:35,400
released in the thick of the
Bill Clinton Monica Lewinsky

692
00:41:35,400 –> 00:41:36,900
scandal.
Yeah.

693
00:41:36,900 –> 00:41:40,300
So classic did not care
whatsoever.

694
00:41:40,700 –> 00:41:42,700
No.
But here’s some of the things

695
00:41:42,700 –> 00:41:44,100
from that.
CIA report.

696
00:41:44,100 –> 00:41:46,900
There’s one paragraph.
It described a cable from the

697
00:41:46,908 –> 00:41:50,700
cia’s, directorate of
operations, dated October 22nd

698
00:41:50,700 –> 00:41:54,400
1982 that was all about a
prospective meeting between

699
00:41:54,400 –> 00:41:58,200
Contra leaders for quote and
exchange in the United States of

700
00:41:58,200 –> 00:42:03,700
Narcotics forearms which then
our ship to Nicaragua and quo.

701
00:42:03,800 –> 00:42:07,100
And that meeting was going to be
attended by two different Contra

702
00:42:07,100 –> 00:42:11,900
groups, u.s. arms dealers and a
lieutenant of a drug ring that

703
00:42:11,900 –> 00:42:14,200
imported drugs from Latin
America to the u.s.

704
00:42:14,200 –> 00:42:17,000
West Coast the law.
Tenant trafficker was a contra.

705
00:42:17,100 –> 00:42:21,400
The CIA knew this arms for drugs
deal was happening, didn’t do

706
00:42:21,400 –> 00:42:23,800
anything to stop it.
That is from the cia’s own

707
00:42:23,800 –> 00:42:27,400
report and that’s essentially
what Gary Webb was saying.

708
00:42:27,400 –> 00:42:33,500
Yeah, I will you know, the like
he didn’t say this exact thing

709
00:42:33,700 –> 00:42:37,100
he was talking about it
different Shady operation that

710
00:42:37,100 –> 00:42:39,000
the CIA may have been involved
in.

711
00:42:39,000 –> 00:42:41,000
Yeah, they weren’t doing it now
86-82.

712
00:42:42,100 –> 00:42:43,900
Okay, yeah.
Well fuck Gary Webb.

713
00:42:43,900 –> 00:42:48,400
Then you can’t You can’t like
just say that just because the

714
00:42:48,400 –> 00:42:54,600
CIA definitely has done this
sort of thing before that it did

715
00:42:54,600 –> 00:42:58,000
it.
In this case, there’s also a

716
00:42:58,000 –> 00:43:02,300
mention of an incident where the
CIA requested that the DEA

717
00:43:02,400 –> 00:43:07,700
return 36,000 dollars seized
from a member of the – he’s drug

718
00:43:07,700 –> 00:43:11,300
ring quote to protect and
operational Equity.

719
00:43:11,300 –> 00:43:15,100
IE a contra support group in
which it had an operation.

720
00:43:15,300 –> 00:43:18,500
Interest and quote.
And it’s like that.

721
00:43:19,000 –> 00:43:20,700
What other confirmation do you
need?

722
00:43:20,700 –> 00:43:24,000
Like the CIA is never going to
get in front of the American

723
00:43:24,000 –> 00:43:27,800
public and be like yes we did
what Gary Webb said right?

724
00:43:27,800 –> 00:43:30,800
But this is also the CIA getting
in front of the American public

725
00:43:30,800 –> 00:43:33,100
and going.
Yeah we kind of did what Gary

726
00:43:33,100 –> 00:43:38,400
Webb said, right?
We did stuff like what Gary Webb

727
00:43:38,400 –> 00:43:40,100
said?
That’s the whole thing.

728
00:43:40,100 –> 00:43:43,300
Like that’s the weaselly thing
that is going on.

729
00:43:43,300 –> 00:43:46,300
Here is just so much Of people
going.

730
00:43:46,400 –> 00:43:51,200
Yeah, they look like sure there
was a lot of stuff like that

731
00:43:51,300 –> 00:43:57,100
with a lot of the same people,
but it wasn’t this exact thing.

732
00:43:57,400 –> 00:44:01,800
It also includes quotes from a
DEA agent who says quote his

733
00:44:01,800 –> 00:44:03,900
attempts to investigate Contra
drug.

734
00:44:03,900 –> 00:44:07,000
Smuggling were stymied by DEA
management.

735
00:44:07,000 –> 00:44:12,300
The US Embassy in El Salvador
and the CIA and quote, and then

736
00:44:12,300 –> 00:44:15,100
six weeks after that report was
published inspector.

737
00:44:15,300 –> 00:44:19,300
General Frederick hits testified
before a house Congressional

738
00:44:19,300 –> 00:44:23,000
committee and said this about
the claims in dark Alliance.

739
00:44:23,000 –> 00:44:25,400
This kind of a long quote bear
with me listeners.

740
00:44:25,500 –> 00:44:29,200
Here goes, as I said earlier, we
have found no evidence in the

741
00:44:29,207 –> 00:44:32,300
course of this lengthy
investigation of any conspiracy

742
00:44:32,300 –> 00:44:37,300
by CIA or its employees to bring
drugs into the United States.

743
00:44:37,500 –> 00:44:42,400
However, during the Contra era,
CIA worked with a variety of

744
00:44:42,400 –> 00:44:44,700
people to support the Contra
program.

745
00:44:44,700 –> 00:44:48,700
These loaded CIA assets, pilots
who ferried supplies to the

746
00:44:48,700 –> 00:44:52,100
contras as well as Contra
officials and others.

747
00:44:52,300 –> 00:44:54,100
Let me be frank about what we
are.

748
00:44:54,100 –> 00:44:58,200
Finding, there are instances
where CIA did not in an

749
00:44:58,200 –> 00:45:00,700
expeditious or consistent
fashion.

750
00:45:00,700 –> 00:45:03,400
Cut off relationships with
individuals.

751
00:45:03,400 –> 00:45:07,200
Supporting the Contra program
who were alleged to have engaged

752
00:45:07,200 –> 00:45:11,300
in drug trafficking activity or
to take action to resolve the

753
00:45:11,300 –> 00:45:16,300
allegations and quote, ooh,
that’s literally Lee Geary, webs

754
00:45:16,500 –> 00:45:17,700
story.
Yep.

755
00:45:17,900 –> 00:45:20,200
Is that the CIA knew and didn’t
do anything?

756
00:45:20,200 –> 00:45:23,200
It’s not that the CIA
intentionally sold crack in the

757
00:45:23,207 –> 00:45:26,000
United States.
It’s not just that they knew so

758
00:45:26,000 –> 00:45:28,600
the CIA did kind of confirm it.
Yeah.

759
00:45:28,900 –> 00:45:33,200
And I don’t know how it’s not in
the notes here but in as far as

760
00:45:33,200 –> 00:45:36,000
these claims, like the
Washington Post saying, well

761
00:45:36,000 –> 00:45:40,200
there’s no available evidence
that the CIA worked with drug

762
00:45:40,200 –> 00:45:42,200
smugglers.
Another thing that comes up in

763
00:45:42,200 –> 00:45:46,600
the CIA report is that around
the time, the The Iran-Contra

764
00:45:46,600 –> 00:45:50,400
scandal was kicking off the CIA,
put a new rule in place where if

765
00:45:50,400 –> 00:45:53,800
you were an agent, working out
in the field drug smuggling and

766
00:45:53,800 –> 00:45:57,100
drug dealing was no longer one
of the crimes you had to report

767
00:45:57,200 –> 00:46:00,100
that your operatives were
engaging in like if they

768
00:46:00,100 –> 00:46:01,500
murdered someone.
Yeah.

769
00:46:01,500 –> 00:46:04,900
But if they were just selling
drugs for some reason you didn’t

770
00:46:04,900 –> 00:46:09,700
have to report that anymore.
So of course, there are, no, I

771
00:46:09,707 –> 00:46:12,000
don’t know.
CIA memos that say working with

772
00:46:12,000 –> 00:46:14,500
a drug dealer because they
didn’t have to tell anyone

773
00:46:14,500 –> 00:46:15,900
anymore.
Right.

774
00:46:15,900 –> 00:46:18,700
Well, in like, I just don’t
understand the mindset that

775
00:46:18,700 –> 00:46:22,000
thinks that those sorts of
things would even be documented

776
00:46:22,000 –> 00:46:25,900
in a way that would conform to
your expectations.

777
00:46:25,900 –> 00:46:30,300
Yeah, you know, like you’re not
going to get that sort of

778
00:46:30,500 –> 00:46:34,700
blatant, admission of illegal
activity, it’s all going to be

779
00:46:34,700 –> 00:46:37,800
obscured in this sort of double
talk.

780
00:46:37,800 –> 00:46:43,800
This sort of like very elaborate
like this, quote is like, very

781
00:46:43,800 –> 00:46:46,900
confusing.
If you’re just kind of reading

782
00:46:46,900 –> 00:46:50,900
it and you don’t if you’re not
looking for specifically a

783
00:46:50,900 –> 00:46:55,200
connection to this Gary Webb
thing, it’s a lot of talking

784
00:46:55,200 –> 00:47:00,100
around the actual issue without
actually saying much of

785
00:47:00,100 –> 00:47:06,100
substance it’s difficult for me
to even think of this as a

786
00:47:06,100 –> 00:47:08,700
quote-unquote conspiracy.
Yeah.

787
00:47:08,800 –> 00:47:13,000
Because like there is a
conspiracy obviously but like it

788
00:47:13,000 –> 00:47:15,100
there’s a conspiracy in the same
way that conspiracy.

789
00:47:15,200 –> 00:47:19,700
Happen all the time in lots of
different ways in that people

790
00:47:19,700 –> 00:47:23,000
are, you know, especially in
intelligence or being secretive.

791
00:47:23,100 –> 00:47:28,600
But like this is it’s just that
we kind of saw little bit of how

792
00:47:28,600 –> 00:47:31,900
the sausage was made and Gary
Webb has kind of reporting on it

793
00:47:31,900 –> 00:47:37,500
and that was dangerous to the
way the CIA wanted to operate.

794
00:47:37,600 –> 00:47:42,100
Yeah, I mean, he reported it in
a way that made it matter to

795
00:47:42,400 –> 00:47:44,400
people living in the United
States.

796
00:47:44,400 –> 00:47:47,100
Exactly.
Because the story’s always ended

797
00:47:47,100 –> 00:47:49,700
with cocaine being smuggled into
the United States.

798
00:47:49,700 –> 00:47:53,100
Again, this is the fucking
Miami, Vice era, so your picture

799
00:47:53,100 –> 00:47:56,600
and Crockett, and Tubbs, you
know, hunting down Phil Collins.

800
00:47:56,600 –> 00:47:59,600
I don’t remember if he was a
criminal or a cop on that show,

801
00:47:59,600 –> 00:48:03,000
but he was certainly on it.
Phil Collins, Phil Collins was

802
00:48:03,000 –> 00:48:04,700
very much on Miami Vice.
Look it up.

803
00:48:04,700 –> 00:48:09,400
Everybody like not a regular but
he was on it more than once and

804
00:48:09,400 –> 00:48:14,200
I knew, he knew his music was
and yeah, Gary Webb was the

805
00:48:14,200 –> 00:48:17,200
first one who was like, No,
that’s going to black

806
00:48:17,200 –> 00:48:20,400
neighborhoods, right?
It is causing the

807
00:48:20,700 –> 00:48:24,800
disproportionate incarceration
of people of color and it is

808
00:48:24,800 –> 00:48:28,600
Wrecking communities of color.
And that was Gary, webs crime

809
00:48:28,600 –> 00:48:31,300
was pointing that part out.
I feel like you’re looking up

810
00:48:31,300 –> 00:48:37,000
Phil Collins on my way I have.
I am.

811
00:48:37,100 –> 00:48:41,400
No, I mean like it’s really the
whole Gary whip thing is just

812
00:48:41,400 –> 00:48:44,800
it’s so depressing.
Like yeah and we’ve already

813
00:48:45,100 –> 00:48:49,700
Touched on how this story ends.
Like he was never able to get

814
00:48:49,900 –> 00:48:52,600
another job with a major
publication.

815
00:48:52,600 –> 00:48:55,800
He still did investigative
journalism and like he worked.

816
00:48:55,800 –> 00:48:58,100
But right.
He wasn’t able to make the kind

817
00:48:58,100 –> 00:49:01,200
of money that working for one of
those Outlets provided.

818
00:49:02,300 –> 00:49:07,700
It’s the kind of Scandal that
haunts you as a journalist.

819
00:49:07,700 –> 00:49:10,200
Yeah.
Because the CIA and the

820
00:49:10,200 –> 00:49:15,000
mainstream media did such a good
job discrediting, Gary Webb.

821
00:49:15,200 –> 00:49:18,500
As a reporter.
Yeah, that from then on if he

822
00:49:18,500 –> 00:49:22,300
did get a job with a major
publication, you know, most of

823
00:49:22,300 –> 00:49:24,800
America was just going to see
him as that guy that lied about

824
00:49:24,800 –> 00:49:27,100
the CIA, right?
Exactly.

825
00:49:27,100 –> 00:49:32,300
And it wrecked his life and he
lost everything and eventually

826
00:49:32,600 –> 00:49:36,600
took his own life depending on
who, you believe, I still think

827
00:49:36,600 –> 00:49:40,500
Against All Odds that he
probably did kill himself even

828
00:49:40,500 –> 00:49:45,700
though he shot himself twice.
Yes, unlikely but I guess it

829
00:49:45,700 –> 00:49:48,400
happens.
It does happen in.

830
00:49:48,900 –> 00:49:54,100
Oh like look I don’t know it’s
impossible to say it’s one of

831
00:49:54,100 –> 00:49:57,900
those things where there’s just
we’re just not going to know for

832
00:49:57,900 –> 00:50:04,000
sure but like it, you know, it’s
suspicious that he fucked with

833
00:50:04,000 –> 00:50:06,800
the CIA and then got shot twice
in the head and it was ruled a

834
00:50:06,800 –> 00:50:11,700
suicide, but also these things
do happen, they’re not unheard

835
00:50:11,700 –> 00:50:14,900
of and, you know, it’s a
tragedy.

836
00:50:15,300 –> 00:50:18,800
And yeah, yeah, I still like
your theory from last week that

837
00:50:18,800 –> 00:50:22,500
maybe that first shot was to
troll the CIA and make it look

838
00:50:22,500 –> 00:50:24,200
like they can.
Yeah.

839
00:50:24,300 –> 00:50:26,800
That would be very good.
I mean, would like that.

840
00:50:27,000 –> 00:50:30,000
I think in retrospect he maybe
could have like fired a shot

841
00:50:30,000 –> 00:50:32,900
into the crown molding or
something that mist and then

842
00:50:32,900 –> 00:50:33,700
done it.
Sure.

843
00:50:33,700 –> 00:50:35,600
Then they’re like, why is that
second bolt?

844
00:50:35,600 –> 00:50:39,600
I don’t know.
I’m not questioning his method,

845
00:50:39,600 –> 00:50:43,800
you know, sad that Gary Webb, I
do think took his own life.

846
00:50:43,800 –> 00:50:50,200
My main Reasoning for it is
again, 2004 is so late in

847
00:50:50,200 –> 00:50:52,400
today’s game for the CIA to
decide.

848
00:50:52,400 –> 00:50:55,800
All right, now, not only are we
going to kill this guy but we’re

849
00:50:55,800 –> 00:50:58,000
going to break in his house and
shoot him in the head twice,

850
00:50:58,000 –> 00:51:00,900
right?
In like the fact that it was

851
00:51:01,000 –> 00:51:05,700
seven years to the day that he
resigned from.

852
00:51:05,700 –> 00:51:10,100
Yeah, the Mercury News, like it
all points to suicide and it

853
00:51:10,100 –> 00:51:13,500
makes sense.
And I don’t necessarily doubt

854
00:51:13,500 –> 00:51:16,300
it.
It just is that It’s just one of

855
00:51:16,300 –> 00:51:20,300
those cappers to a story like
this like that.

856
00:51:20,300 –> 00:51:24,600
You couldn’t really make up
yeah, that this guy who was

857
00:51:24,600 –> 00:51:29,300
hounded by the CIA and major
news outlets then killed himself

858
00:51:29,300 –> 00:51:31,400
by shooting himself, twice in
the head.

859
00:51:31,500 –> 00:51:35,400
Like that’s just one of those
weird details.

860
00:51:35,500 –> 00:51:39,200
Yeah, that makes it seem a
little Larger than Life.

861
00:51:39,200 –> 00:51:42,200
Yeah, it is.
It’s definitely an odd detail.

862
00:51:42,700 –> 00:51:44,900
The only other thing that I
think speaks to it.

863
00:51:45,100 –> 00:51:49,300
It being suicide is there are
interviews with his family and

864
00:51:49,300 –> 00:51:51,200
friends from the time.
Yeah.

865
00:51:51,200 –> 00:51:55,000
And he was in a very bad place.
He was also clinically against

866
00:51:55,000 –> 00:51:58,900
for, I mean, most of his adult
life that obviously isn’t going

867
00:51:58,900 –> 00:52:01,000
to help.
So yeah.

868
00:52:01,000 –> 00:52:04,400
It’s, you know, it seems like
the response to this just pushed

869
00:52:04,400 –> 00:52:07,700
him over the edge.
Very sad ending to this.

870
00:52:08,000 –> 00:52:12,200
And yeah, I mean, I think the
only Silver Lining is, I think

871
00:52:12,200 –> 00:52:15,200
we’ve hit a point where most
people Better.

872
00:52:15,200 –> 00:52:19,200
If you did a poll of Americans
now and we’re like, you think

873
00:52:19,200 –> 00:52:23,500
the CIA ever sold drugs?
I bet that’s that’s going over

874
00:52:23,500 –> 00:52:27,000
fifty percent now.
Yeah, it seems like a fairly

875
00:52:27,000 –> 00:52:28,700
mainstream opinion.
Yeah.

876
00:52:29,000 –> 00:52:33,100
As far as these things go, as
far as any political opinion can

877
00:52:33,100 –> 00:52:35,800
be mainstream in America in
2022.

878
00:52:36,100 –> 00:52:39,500
Well, I like yeah.
It feels like the cia’s

879
00:52:39,500 –> 00:52:42,200
involvement in.
The crackit epidemic is

880
00:52:42,300 –> 00:52:44,900
basically settled history at
this point.

881
00:52:45,000 –> 00:52:48,600
Yeah.
So yeah, that’s the sad end to

882
00:52:48,600 –> 00:52:51,500
the Gary Webb story as opposed
to all those happy peaks in the

883
00:52:51,500 –> 00:52:56,400
middle, right?
So it really is like it all of

884
00:52:56,400 –> 00:53:00,100
the Fallout from this article is
such a major bummer.

885
00:53:00,200 –> 00:53:03,900
Like it’s so sad like just from
start to finish.

886
00:53:04,100 –> 00:53:08,500
It’s just the story of a bunch
of powerful interest groups.

887
00:53:08,800 –> 00:53:16,400
Dismantling a man’s life in and
the sad it really is a Reason to

888
00:53:16,400 –> 00:53:20,800
examine your relationship with
the mainstream media, like the

889
00:53:20,800 –> 00:53:23,900
New York Times the LA Times
Washington Post.

890
00:53:24,100 –> 00:53:27,100
They seem like the liberal
Outlets, a lot of times they’re

891
00:53:27,200 –> 00:53:30,800
like yeah, especially since
Trump after trumpet feels very

892
00:53:30,800 –> 00:53:33,500
much like our side and their
side, right.

893
00:53:33,500 –> 00:53:38,100
But it’s never been that black
and white with no the American

894
00:53:38,200 –> 00:53:41,400
media especially when it comes
to war like right.

895
00:53:41,400 –> 00:53:44,400
The media is going to side with
the government when we go to war

896
00:53:44,600 –> 00:53:48,100
the Erican media sides with the
government.

897
00:53:48,100 –> 00:53:50,200
Most of the time I still
maintain.

898
00:53:50,200 –> 00:53:53,500
There’s never going to be
another Watergate.

899
00:53:53,500 –> 00:53:57,500
I swear to God, I just saw a
fucking article from David from

900
00:53:57,800 –> 00:54:02,700
about how fucking great it was
that we got into Wars in Iraq

901
00:54:02,700 –> 00:54:06,000
and Afghanistan.
Like there’s so many mainstream

902
00:54:06,500 –> 00:54:12,600
reporters who are total Hawks
and we’ll just wave the flag for

903
00:54:12,600 –> 00:54:14,500
whatever military action or
yeah.

904
00:54:14,500 –> 00:54:17,800
It wants to And that’s not to
say no good.

905
00:54:17,800 –> 00:54:20,500
Reporting comes out of those
Outlets, or that every person

906
00:54:20,500 –> 00:54:23,300
who works there is a government
stooge.

907
00:54:23,300 –> 00:54:26,500
Absolutely.
Not like there’s a lot, like a

908
00:54:26,500 –> 00:54:29,600
lot of great people working at
all three of these newspapers

909
00:54:29,600 –> 00:54:32,800
that we’ve been talking about.
But you do have to ask yourself,

910
00:54:32,800 –> 00:54:37,100
why some stories just don’t end
up getting that mainstream

911
00:54:37,100 –> 00:54:40,500
attention when it involves the
government, all linked to the

912
00:54:40,600 –> 00:54:44,800
Newsweek and Yahoo news articles
I mentioned earlier.

913
00:54:45,000 –> 00:54:48,900
Go read them and fucking hit me
up in the comments.

914
00:54:48,900 –> 00:54:51,900
If you think that’s not a thing.
That should have been Front

915
00:54:51,900 –> 00:54:53,300
Page.
New York Times.

916
00:54:53,600 –> 00:54:56,400
Yes.
It’s such a huge Scandal and

917
00:54:56,400 –> 00:54:58,400
those Outlets you trust.
So much aren’t going to tell you

918
00:54:58,400 –> 00:55:01,100
about it.
No, they’re not, there it’s, you

919
00:55:01,100 –> 00:55:03,800
know, there’s there’s an agenda,
you know?

920
00:55:03,800 –> 00:55:07,300
And I don’t necessarily think
that it’s a yeah, it was about

921
00:55:07,300 –> 00:55:09,800
Shinzo Abe.
A that was the that was the

922
00:55:09,900 –> 00:55:12,900
where he was like, Shinzo Abe, a
made the world better David,

923
00:55:12,900 –> 00:55:16,100
from David.
Shut the fuck up.

924
00:55:16,100 –> 00:55:18,800
You fucking Warhawk and so
gross.

925
00:55:19,100 –> 00:55:22,700
Yeah, it’s the same thing with
navalny whenever people are like

926
00:55:22,900 –> 00:55:27,200
going to bat for Alexei navalny.
It’s like that guy is an actual

927
00:55:27,300 –> 00:55:30,800
Nazi, right?
And you’re like, Russia is great

928
00:55:30,800 –> 00:55:33,600
hope against Putin.
It’s like you want that guy

929
00:55:33,600 –> 00:55:35,300
running Russia.
Right.

930
00:55:35,300 –> 00:55:37,300
Are you out of your fucking
minds?

931
00:55:37,300 –> 00:55:38,700
It’s ridiculous.
I mean.

932
00:55:38,700 –> 00:55:41,900
Yeah.
So yeah, the it’s so sad.

933
00:55:42,000 –> 00:55:44,900
I think I think the biggest
takeaway from all of this.

934
00:55:45,000 –> 00:55:50,300
This is that Phil Collins was on
one episode of Miami Vice, but

935
00:55:50,300 –> 00:55:56,200
he was on, he was he was and of
course his you know, in the air

936
00:55:56,200 –> 00:55:59,400
tonight was featured in the
pilot episode of was like a

937
00:55:59,500 –> 00:56:02,800
groundbreaking moment in
television history, but I’m

938
00:56:02,800 –> 00:56:05,300
sorry he was not a recurring
character on Miami.

939
00:56:05,300 –> 00:56:09,700
I was like, just no fucking way.
Fine.

940
00:56:10,000 –> 00:56:12,000
Fine.
You know what?

941
00:56:12,000 –> 00:56:14,800
That does seem like the
appropriate place to end?

942
00:56:16,200 –> 00:56:20,700
On next week’s bonus episode.
We are going to talk about Kill

943
00:56:20,700 –> 00:56:26,700
the Messenger, which is a 2014
film about Gary Webb and the

944
00:56:26,700 –> 00:56:29,000
dark Alliance series.
Yep.

945
00:56:29,000 –> 00:56:31,300
You can rent it.
It’s out there, it’s very

946
00:56:31,300 –> 00:56:33,900
available.
It’s got, it is got a solid

947
00:56:33,900 –> 00:56:38,100
cast, baby, Jeremy Renner Mary
Elizabeth Winstead.

948
00:56:39,100 –> 00:56:42,300
I mean, we’re going to get into
it and the episode that’s like

949
00:56:42,300 –> 00:56:44,800
easily the thing to talk about.
But like yeah.

950
00:56:45,000 –> 00:56:48,900
Yeah, you can rent it.
It’s it is surprisingly not

951
00:56:48,900 –> 00:56:54,400
available on any streaming
service or like of the thousands

952
00:56:54,400 –> 00:56:57,200
of Amazon channels.
It’s not available with a free

953
00:56:57,200 –> 00:56:59,700
trial there.
So you do have to Shell out a

954
00:56:59,700 –> 00:57:02,000
little bit for it, but it’s
worth, it’s good, it’s good,

955
00:57:02,000 –> 00:57:05,800
it’s cheap.
So yeah, go go watch it ahead of

956
00:57:05,800 –> 00:57:07,200
time.
If you don’t want it spoiled.

957
00:57:07,200 –> 00:57:11,300
I mean we just did to Al podcast
episodes about what it’s about.

958
00:57:11,300 –> 00:57:13,400
So it’s very actively spoiled
for you.

959
00:57:13,900 –> 00:57:15,700
Yeah.
I was gonna say like Take, we’ve

960
00:57:15,700 –> 00:57:18,600
already talked for longer than
the movie is.

961
00:57:18,600 –> 00:57:21,300
Yeah, about this.
So, I don’t know that they’re

962
00:57:21,300 –> 00:57:23,200
your, you got to worry about
spoilers.

963
00:57:23,200 –> 00:57:28,700
We’re really LA Times in this,
what we’re doing this is way

964
00:57:28,700 –> 00:57:30,400
fewer words than the phone
number.

965
00:57:30,400 –> 00:57:33,100
I actually, it might not be
yeah, and the three original

966
00:57:33,100 –> 00:57:36,800
dark Alliance, but we’re on this
side, I’m on Gary website.

967
00:57:36,900 –> 00:57:40,200
I like eat, it’s so, so it is
just so sad.

968
00:57:40,500 –> 00:57:45,700
Yeah, I yeah, I think that is
probably the actual Point to end

969
00:57:45,700 –> 00:57:50,700
on is, yeah, I believe Gary Webb
and absolutely, I acknowledge

970
00:57:50,700 –> 00:57:53,700
that there were some flaws in
his reporting.

971
00:57:55,100 –> 00:57:59,400
I also do think some people went
into it, looking to discredit

972
00:57:59,400 –> 00:58:03,200
claims that he didn’t actually
make right, and a lot of the

973
00:58:03,200 –> 00:58:06,900
flaws with the reporting are
things that are inherent to the

974
00:58:07,100 –> 00:58:10,300
type of subject that he was
reporting on like, yeah, you

975
00:58:10,300 –> 00:58:12,600
know, a certain point.
You have to be a little bit

976
00:58:12,600 –> 00:58:18,000
more.
Any of your sources because you

977
00:58:18,000 –> 00:58:21,500
only have access to a certain
type of source for a story like

978
00:58:21,500 –> 00:58:22,300
this.
Yeah.

979
00:58:22,300 –> 00:58:25,400
So yeah, that’s it.
We did it.

980
00:58:25,400 –> 00:58:30,000
Do we have anything to plug
before we get out of here?

981
00:58:30,400 –> 00:58:33,800
Going back?
Yes, allostery watch podcast.

982
00:58:34,200 –> 00:58:39,700
The second episode is up on the
patreon and yeah, stand in your

983
00:58:39,700 –> 00:58:42,700
Spotify apps this week,
Thursday.

984
00:58:42,700 –> 00:58:45,700
Hell yeah.
It’s and I’m having A lot of fun

985
00:58:45,700 –> 00:58:49,600
with that it’s great.
Yeah it’s so much fun lost is

986
00:58:49,600 –> 00:58:53,100
great that almost zero actual
government, malfeasance

987
00:58:53,100 –> 00:58:55,900
involved.
It’s very relaxing and in lost

988
00:58:56,500 –> 00:59:01,300
your spot cast, very little
there on this island and you

989
00:59:01,300 –> 00:59:04,400
know, so like there’s not a lot
going on with the CIA.

990
00:59:04,500 –> 00:59:06,900
Yeah, I haven’t looked at a
single government document

991
00:59:06,900 –> 00:59:08,500
recording the reading Pitt’s
character.

992
00:59:08,500 –> 00:59:11,400
It’s like a vacation really, is
really is.

993
00:59:11,600 –> 00:59:14,800
So yeah, check that out.
Episodes will be out publicly.

994
00:59:15,000 –> 00:59:17,600
Soon once where once we’re done
with the first season.

995
00:59:18,000 –> 00:59:20,500
Yeah.
And you can follow me on Twitter

996
00:59:20,500 –> 00:59:21,000
at.
Hi there.

997
00:59:21,000 –> 00:59:24,000
Hide our.
If you want to only see retweets

998
00:59:24,000 –> 00:59:30,700
of these episodes, that’s it for
me right now on Twitter, you can

999
00:59:30,700 –> 00:59:33,200
follow me on Twitter and
Instagram at Adam Todd Brown.

1000
00:59:33,200 –> 00:59:37,300
Follow the show at conspiracy
pops on Twitter and Instagram us

1001
00:59:37,300 –> 00:59:39,200
where we’ll start using it more
soon.

1002
00:59:39,900 –> 00:59:44,000
And I think that’s it.
Let’s get out of here.

1003
00:59:44,000 –> 00:59:46,900
Olivia say, Good-Bye Baby,
Goodbye everybody.

1004
00:59:46,900 –> 00:59:53,000
We love you.
People.