Conspiracy! The Show 246: The Strange Death of Shane Todd

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Welcome to conspiracy the show.
The world’s most trusted

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conspiracy theory podcast with
your host, Adam Todd Brown and

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Olivia haydar Hey everybody.
Welcome to an upbeat good time

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and episode of conspiracy the
show.

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I’m Adam, Todd Brown.
Who are you?

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I’m Olivia haydar and that makes
us your host, Olivia, how’s it

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going?
You know, it goes, It goes, it’s

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been a, it’s been a great a week
it’s been here in a while a it’s

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been a great week.
It’s been a while.

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Since we recorded, we intended
to record this last week.

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Yep.
And in between recordings, went

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out into the other room of
studio and found sewage dripping

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from the ceiling.
Mmm, which oh what a money pit

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that place has been good times.
I really am glad that I did not

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taste it which was my first
impulse where I go out there and

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there’s water dripping from the
ceiling.

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And on to electronic equipment
in.

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So we’re both kind of suddenly
very frantic here, right?

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And I’m like, what is this?
Is this even water?

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Maybe it’s cool and because
we’ve had several, a track

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issues at the studio and so I
almost did, and I’m not an

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expert in anything.
So I don’t know why, but I

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almost did the little put my
finger in a thing and taste, I

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did not.
Not.

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Yeah I’m glad you didn’t do
that.

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Yeah, I don’t know what ended up
being sewage.

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I don’t know what good option.
It could have been.

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It’s not like it was going to be
Sprite or something.

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It was gonna be either Freon or
water.

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I think Briana you got a snork
that right?

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Yeah, exactly.
It’s my understanding of using

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free on as a drug is correct.
Yeah, man. 100% how desperate do

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you got to be?
There’s an R&B singer from the

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90s.
I know who died that.

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Yeah, I remember that Freon
hard.

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It was a whole When I was in
school for like it for a few

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weeks.
Yeah.

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I never got into it myself.
Oh no freon.

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Nah.
You didn’t ever helped free on

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now.
Just not my thing, you know.

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Yeah.
Me neither.

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I know it makes me a bit of a
square but yeah, no, I just

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stick to weed.
I wear the label proudly so

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we’re talking about some stuff
this.

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Yeah this is a story.
I had never heard of I don’t

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want to I don’t want to spill
the beans on where I found it

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but I told you You, I found a
pretty interesting resource.

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Yeah.
For potential podcast, topics in

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the future and included.
In that resource was the highly

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suspicious 2012 death.
American man named Shane Todd.

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Yeah, I had not heard of this.
His last name is misspelled.

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It’s spelled with two D’s.
Oh, which do you mean just in

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general misspelled?
Yeah, because like, Middle name

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is Todd and it’s tied with one.
Yeah.

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Which makes it proper.
Doesn’t it mean something

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different?
If it’s got to Dee’s, it means.

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Death with one d.
Right?

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I know that.
So, yeah, I don’t know what it

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means or two days.
Why would I care?

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Maybe means life could be, which
will be interesting.

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Oh, the irony there.
Oh man.

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Yeah, this is relatively recent
news, but it’s also already on

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the verge of being forgotten
forever.

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I mean, it’s 10 years old.
That this point.

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So yeah but still I mean in the
big scheme of things.

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Sure.
Yeah.

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Like in the geologic is in our
entire existence just a blip on

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the radar.
Yeah I know less than less than

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a day in the in the geologic
calendar.

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Like we’re not even here.
So yeah, a lot of the background

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on this comes from an
investigation done by the

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financial times, which will link
to will link to all of the

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articles that we reference But
that Financial Times article

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really lays everything out.
It’s very well done and very

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long.
It’ll take you a morning, you

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know, you got to read it.
Yeah.

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He was living in Singapore at
the time he died and he worked

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for a company called IM e.
Hmm, AKA The Institute of micro

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Electronics.
Yeah, join the company in

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December 2010.
Shortly after graduating

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college, and his stint with ime
less, Lasted for about 18 months

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at which point he accepted a job
with an American firm and was

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planning to move back to the US
on his last day of work, he had

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lunch at a steakhouse with
several colleagues and then

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signed off for the day at 5:16
p.m. by sending an email that

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said, thanks for helping make my
time and ime a memorable

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experience.
I wish you all the best of luck

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in the future.
Please keep in touch.

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And so after that his girlfriend
in Singapore, a woman named

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Shirley sorry.
Anto where believe is a nurse, I

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don’t know why that matters.
But I recall from the article,

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she was a nurse.
She expected to hear from him

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later that day.
And she did not and she didn’t

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hear from him the next day.
So then she went to his

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apartment, which is what a
patient girlfriend.

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She waited me till Sunday.
Yeah, look, she gives him his

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space.
That’s nice.

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Something to be said for that,
that’s for sure.

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Exactly.
And so she finally, on Sunday,

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heads over to his apartment, and
she gets there R, she finds the

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door unlocked and inside.
She finds Shane Todd hanging

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from a bathroom door.
It’s a chair on the floor.

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Approximately five feet away
from where his body was hanging

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and he was dead.
Yeah, this happened one week

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before he was due to return to
the United States.

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Singapore police ruled this.
A suicide right away, which

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means they didn’t investigate.
And I know it’s a weird

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comparison, but that detail
reminds me a lot of Kurt.

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Cobain Sure because that’s the
same thing like right at the

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time in Seattle, they had a law
or a rule within the Seattle PD

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that if any regular ass beat
cop, determined that an incident

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was a suicide, they never sent
any murder investigators or

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homicide detectives anything
like that.

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So great that kind of becomes
the sticking point here, right?

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They immediately ruled it a
suicide Side and never did any

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investi I mean they eventually
do an investigation.

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Sure takes a while and what the
Singapore police end up telling

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Shane Todd’s family is that he
had drilled holes into his

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bathroom wall bolted in a poly
then slipped a black strap

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through the pulley wrapped it
around the toilet, several times

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and then tethered the strapped
to his neck and jumped from its

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share.
God that’s elaborate.

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It’s very like they are.
They’re really saying he Wanted

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to heal himself.
He was dedicated because he

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built some Rube Goldberg
contraption.

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Yeah.
So he had to like go out and buy

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stuff for this.
Do they have?

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Do they know where he got it?
No wonder if that came up in the

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investigation.
What is this situation?

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Yeah, oh my God, Point burn.
So upon receiving this news,

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Shane’s parents Mary and Rick
made their way to Singapore,

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along with Shane’s, two younger
brothers, John in Dillon.

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Or maybe it’s die Lon.
I hope it’s die Lon.

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I hope this hope this family.
This is a Dobby hoped.

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The man’s name is die Lon.
Yeah.

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Like the rapper from Making the
Band of course of course you get

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the reference let’s just move
on.

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Of course.
Yes let’s move on when they were

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allowed to see Shane’s
apartment.

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They were shocked by what they
did.

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Not find.
Mmm for one thing.

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There were no holes in the
bathroom wall.

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Yeah, that seems important.
It seemed a yeah.

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If A police explanation is that
he drilled holes in the wall to

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install an, elaborate pulley
system.

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Yeah.
Where are those holes and was

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the pulley still there?
I’m assuming they would have

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taken that down to.
Yeah, feels like the family

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would get the pulley.
Yes, that is usually becomes a

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bigger factory later.
Also.

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Yeah, there were no bolts there
were no screws, right?

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The toilet was in a completely
different location in the

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bathroom than they initially.
Been told and again no crime

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scene, tape.
No dusting for fingerprints.

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Nothing at all to indicate.
An investigation had happened

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and so be on the scene in the
bathroom.

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Shane Todd’s family.
And in investigation by the

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financial times, both say his
apartment, just looked like

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someone in the middle of a move.
Yeah, boxes were packed.

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Laundry was being done.
You wrote about price tags for

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his furniture that he was trying
to sell.

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Hmm.
All this normal stuff and I do

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laundry.
Yeah, like you do before you

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kill yourself and I know there’s
people who are going to say of

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course there are always
exceptions.

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Yes.
And that I know it’s not there’s

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no standard operating procedure
for suicide, obviously.

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And I do accept that but also
people who would argue that have

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to accept that sometimes people
just get murdered and sometimes

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people try to make it look like
suicide or an accident when they

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do it.
Look, we’ve all seen Michael

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Clayton, we know what happens.
Only so good.

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It’s one of the Great American
Phyllis of the century rips.

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It’s so good.
It’s amazing.

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So one thing that was weird and
that I still find weird if the

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police are genuine, in their
opinion, that this was a

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suicide, They seized all of his
phones and computers.

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Mmm, and on the one hand, sure
they did that.

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So they could look for suicide
notes, right?

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But on the other hand, When they
found those notes, they did not

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return those computers or those
phones, right?

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Right.
They just gave the family and

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Shane’s girlfriend printouts o
of these alleged suicide notes.

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Yeah, look seems Haiti.
I’m gonna say it.

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Sure as shit does while they
were at the apartment.

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Some of Shane’s friends drop by
and one of the things that they

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all said in, this is also
important later, especially when

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we talk about about the suicide
notes is that he was very happy

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to be going back to the United
States because he hated his

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fucking job.
That seemed to be everyone’s

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overwhelming impression.
Yeah, his friends say that.

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His girlfriend says it is mom
talks about having conversations

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with him where he was uneasy
about his job.

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So if nothing else at the time
of his death, he definitely had

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something to look forward to
which was getting out of

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Singapore.
Another important detail.

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This is movie shit.
This could be a movie probably

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on the way out of Shane’s
apartment, his mom, Mary notices

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a little device that she thinks
is like a speaker or something.

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00:11:37,900 –> 00:11:42,300
And she asks, if it’s maybe
something the kids can use and

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her husband is like just throw
it in the bag.

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We’ll worry about it later and
they did that.

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They tossed it in the bag, they
left.

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And that becomes really
important because As if you’re

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wondering why someone would kill
Shane Todd.

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The answer is on that device.
His mom took with him.

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00:12:01,500 –> 00:12:05,600
Yeah because it turns out it was
not a speaker it was an external

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00:12:05,600 –> 00:12:07,000
hard drive.
Hmm.

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00:12:07,200 –> 00:12:12,400
And it contained a backup of all
his files from his work at ime

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and it turns out shortly after
being hired he was put in charge

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of a five-man team focused on
Gan devices, which are devices

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that were on Substance called
gallium nitride.

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There is an explainer video in
the article will link to but

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00:12:31,100 –> 00:12:34,900
Olivia, please five minutes on
gallium nitride and how it

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works.
So gallium is a non toxic liquid

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00:12:39,700 –> 00:12:45,400
Metals similar to Mercury and
I’m assuming nitride refers to

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00:12:45,400 –> 00:12:49,600
some sort of nitrogen compound
and that is the extent of My

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00:12:49,600 –> 00:12:53,100
Chemical knowledge.
Yeah, if anyone wants to really,

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00:12:53,100 –> 00:12:56,200
really science, Seat
explanation, just watch the

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video but from what I can glean
from it, you know, that thing

221
00:13:00,400 –> 00:13:03,500
where all our devices need
silicon to run.

222
00:13:03,600 –> 00:13:06,900
Hmm, this is like Silicon on
steroids.

223
00:13:06,900 –> 00:13:11,500
It can withstand more heat and
Branch just more abuse than

224
00:13:11,500 –> 00:13:14,400
regular silicon.
So it makes it, you know,

225
00:13:14,400 –> 00:13:16,600
valuable in developing
technology.

226
00:13:16,600 –> 00:13:19,800
Both for civilian and military
use.

227
00:13:20,100 –> 00:13:23,900
Yeah, which seems to be the
concern here.

228
00:13:24,200 –> 00:13:28,500
Shane was working on gallium
nitride projects and that’s not

229
00:13:28,500 –> 00:13:31,400
anything scandalous.
What scandalous is who he was

230
00:13:31,400 –> 00:13:35,500
working on that project with the
hard drive, his mom removed from

231
00:13:35,500 –> 00:13:37,800
his apartment showed.
He was working on a joint

232
00:13:37,800 –> 00:13:43,100
project between ime and
America’s absolute mortal enemy

233
00:13:43,100 –> 00:13:46,000
in the tech space.
Wow, way yeah.

234
00:13:46,000 –> 00:13:49,000
Are you familiar with the Huawei
Saga?

235
00:13:49,000 –> 00:13:52,800
Yeah, I’m broadly familiar.
I mean I don’t have an intimate,

236
00:13:52,800 –> 00:13:53,900
you know I don’t know all of the
details.

237
00:13:54,000 –> 00:13:56,600
Details about everything, but
like I’m familiar with their

238
00:13:56,600 –> 00:13:59,800
phones.
I had a TV a la Way TV once,

239
00:13:59,900 –> 00:14:07,900
wow, by much.
Yeah, I do actually the United

240
00:14:07,900 –> 00:14:12,300
States versus Huawei would be an
interesting episode in and of

241
00:14:12,300 –> 00:14:14,700
itself.
I mean, there’s a, there’s a lot

242
00:14:14,800 –> 00:14:17,600
going on there, and it’s still
ongoing so us.

243
00:14:17,700 –> 00:14:20,600
Yeah.
We basically kidnapped their CEO

244
00:14:21,400 –> 00:14:26,800
and I just offend arrest weird.
Yeah, one of the reasons we’re

245
00:14:26,800 –> 00:14:31,900
so scared of Huawei is because
we have our suspicions that they

246
00:14:31,900 –> 00:14:34,700
are directly tied to the Chinese
government.

247
00:14:34,700 –> 00:14:37,500
Sure.
And that their equipment,

248
00:14:37,500 –> 00:14:41,800
especially there 5G equipment is
going to be used to spy on us.

249
00:14:41,900 –> 00:14:43,800
Yeah.
And at first it seemed like we

250
00:14:43,800 –> 00:14:48,000
were kind of alone in that but
now other countries are starting

251
00:14:48,100 –> 00:14:52,900
to get on board with that idea.
Like I saw Portugal recently as

252
00:14:53,100 –> 00:14:55,900
Wade Maybe.
Be banning Huawei is 5G

253
00:14:56,100 –> 00:14:58,800
equipment.
I mean, I assume that there’s

254
00:14:58,800 –> 00:15:02,400
probably some sort of connection
there in the same way there is a

255
00:15:02,400 –> 00:15:05,800
connection between the US
government and Tech groups like

256
00:15:05,800 –> 00:15:11,100
Google and apple like sound like
this is classic u.s. throwing

257
00:15:11,100 –> 00:15:13,700
stones in glass houses, in my
opinion.

258
00:15:13,800 –> 00:15:16,000
Yeah, I for one thing, I’m
pretty sure.

259
00:15:16,000 –> 00:15:20,700
The reason we don’t want China,
putting 5G equipment in our

260
00:15:20,700 –> 00:15:24,500
country, is the same reason, we
don’t want China running to Talk

261
00:15:24,500 –> 00:15:27,000
the in our country.
It’s because we want to do the

262
00:15:27,000 –> 00:15:30,000
spine, right?
And like with Tick-Tock, we want

263
00:15:30,000 –> 00:15:33,900
to do the mental experiments on
our children to our own social

264
00:15:33,900 –> 00:15:36,000
media apps.
We don’t want China, come in

265
00:15:36,000 –> 00:15:40,600
here and doing that to our kids.
And yeah, I don’t doubt that

266
00:15:40,600 –> 00:15:45,400
there’s some validity to what
the US says Huawei and even then

267
00:15:45,400 –> 00:15:48,900
it could just be fucking.
I’ve been beat over the head so

268
00:15:48,900 –> 00:15:54,000
hard with that propaganda.
I mean maybe but like again I We

269
00:15:54,008 –> 00:15:58,400
do think it’s more just it’s
probably true in the same way

270
00:15:58,400 –> 00:16:01,000
that it’s true for the US and so
many ways.

271
00:16:01,000 –> 00:16:03,200
And so, because why would still
huge?

272
00:16:03,200 –> 00:16:06,500
I looked it up, there’s still
the number three smartphone

273
00:16:06,600 –> 00:16:09,200
maker in the world.
They’re massive man.

274
00:16:09,200 –> 00:16:11,400
Yeah.
And here’s the thing back, when

275
00:16:11,400 –> 00:16:14,800
this story first started gaining
steam in the US, the Huawei

276
00:16:14,800 –> 00:16:18,200
versus u.s. bang.
That was my thought was, oh,

277
00:16:18,200 –> 00:16:21,600
well, I bet the US government
doesn’t want that because they

278
00:16:21,600 –> 00:16:25,100
can’t spy on me with that.
So I bought Away phone in

279
00:16:25,100 –> 00:16:26,700
Olivia.
I fucking loved it.

280
00:16:26,700 –> 00:16:29,900
It was one of my favorite phones
I’ve ever had.

281
00:16:30,000 –> 00:16:33,800
You definitely told me about
your Huawei experience and I

282
00:16:33,800 –> 00:16:36,800
think it sounds great.
I mean, you know, it’s tough,

283
00:16:36,900 –> 00:16:41,200
we’ve kind of settled on a reel
on a format for the smartphone

284
00:16:41,400 –> 00:16:44,600
and as long as you’re kind of
hitting a lot of those boxes,

285
00:16:44,700 –> 00:16:47,100
you have a good time.
Android is so good.

286
00:16:47,100 –> 00:16:50,900
Yeah.
And Huawei it felt like an

287
00:16:50,900 –> 00:16:53,700
iPhone but it ran on Android.
Yeah.

288
00:16:54,300 –> 00:16:55,800
It was not and it was cheap as
shit.

289
00:16:55,800 –> 00:16:58,900
I think I $299 for it.
Yeah.

290
00:17:04,900 –> 00:17:08,200
Hey everybody.
This is Adam host of the podcast

291
00:17:08,200 –> 00:17:10,900
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292
00:17:10,900 –> 00:17:13,900
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306
00:18:03,900 –> 00:18:06,700
Thanks We love you.
Let’s get back to the show.

307
00:18:13,300 –> 00:18:16,600
So, anyway, the files on Shane
Todd’s hard drive.

308
00:18:16,600 –> 00:18:20,800
Showed he was working on a joint
project between ime and Huawei

309
00:18:21,200 –> 00:18:25,900
to develop an amplifier device
powered by gallium nitride and

310
00:18:25,900 –> 00:18:29,200
again that sounds innocent
enough but those devices have

311
00:18:29,200 –> 00:18:32,300
both civilian and Military
applications.

312
00:18:32,400 –> 00:18:36,300
So because he’s working with
Huawei just by extension our

313
00:18:36,300 –> 00:18:38,800
thought is going to be 0.
He’s working with Chinese

314
00:18:38,800 –> 00:18:42,500
government are or they’re
involved in some capacity,

315
00:18:42,600 –> 00:18:44,500
right?
And so, as part of their

316
00:18:44,500 –> 00:18:49,100
investigation, the financial
times showed Shane, Todd’s files

317
00:18:49,200 –> 00:18:52,700
to a guy named Robert York, who
was a professor of electrical

318
00:18:52,700 –> 00:18:55,900
and computer engineering at the
University of California, Santa

319
00:18:55,900 –> 00:18:59,100
Barbara, and he said it would be
quote unnerving, but not

320
00:18:59,100 –> 00:19:03,000
surprising end quote.
If Huawei was working on gallium

321
00:19:03,000 –> 00:19:05,400
nitride, technology and said
that, it could be used for a

322
00:19:05,408 –> 00:19:09,500
number of military applications
high-powered radar electronic

323
00:19:09,500 –> 00:19:14,200
warfare including signal jamming
and even Initially some weapons.

324
00:19:14,200 –> 00:19:15,700
Sure.
The signal jamming thing is

325
00:19:15,700 –> 00:19:18,700
interesting.
Yeah do you remember when the

326
00:19:18,700 –> 00:19:24,800
Navy 7th Fleet which is like the
most prestigious of the Navy

327
00:19:24,900 –> 00:19:29,900
fleets were having all of these
issues with like mishaps during

328
00:19:29,900 –> 00:19:36,800
training and like accidents and
shit that if I recall correctly

329
00:19:36,800 –> 00:19:41,600
was blamed on signaled jamming
by China?

330
00:19:41,600 –> 00:19:45,600
Yeah I only vaguely I do I kind
of know what you’re talking

331
00:19:45,600 –> 00:19:47,600
about.
The I can’t remember it very

332
00:19:47,600 –> 00:19:52,000
well and this is all 2012 that
we’re talking about and I

333
00:19:52,008 –> 00:19:57,200
believe the seventh fleet stuff
was closer to like 2016-2017.

334
00:19:57,900 –> 00:20:01,700
So maybe China, got it done.
Maybe who knows Shane’s job was

335
00:20:01,700 –> 00:20:06,100
to find the necessary equipment
to conduct This research and he

336
00:20:06,100 –> 00:20:09,200
ends up going through a publicly
traded company based in New York

337
00:20:09,200 –> 00:20:12,800
called V KO e, flew out to New
York to work out the deal.

338
00:20:12,900 –> 00:20:16,500
Eel and learn up on their
equipment and according to

339
00:20:16,500 –> 00:20:19,500
people who knew him, he came
back from this meeting very

340
00:20:19,500 –> 00:20:22,900
concerned.
He talked to his mom around this

341
00:20:22,900 –> 00:20:26,600
time and said he was working
with ime on a project.

342
00:20:26,600 –> 00:20:28,900
With a Chinese company did not
name the company.

343
00:20:29,000 –> 00:20:32,200
They didn’t find that out until
they found this hard drive.

344
00:20:32,200 –> 00:20:34,100
That it.
Yeah Huawei and he said in the

345
00:20:34,108 –> 00:20:38,000
meetings they would ask him
really technical questions that

346
00:20:38,000 –> 00:20:40,900
would relate to like
military-type stuff and he would

347
00:20:40,900 –> 00:20:42,800
answer them and then everyone in
the room.

348
00:20:43,000 –> 00:20:47,600
Start speaking Mandarin.
He said it felt like they were

349
00:20:47,600 –> 00:20:50,000
intentionally trying to exclude
him.

350
00:20:50,200 –> 00:20:53,500
Yeah, probably.
He told his mom, he felt he was

351
00:20:53,500 –> 00:20:57,200
being asked to compromise
merican security and somehow, I

352
00:20:57,200 –> 00:20:59,400
still don’t think the American
government is the one who killed

353
00:20:59,400 –> 00:21:03,300
him.
No, they would be lower on.

354
00:21:03,300 –> 00:21:06,000
They wouldn’t be my Top Choice
probably.

355
00:21:06,100 –> 00:21:07,300
Right.
But we’ll get there.

356
00:21:07,400 –> 00:21:11,600
Yeah, he at, this point was so
concerned, he told his mom, I’m

357
00:21:11,600 –> 00:21:14,800
going to call you every A week.
And if you don’t hear from me

358
00:21:14,800 –> 00:21:17,100
for a week, call the American
Embassy.

359
00:21:17,700 –> 00:21:20,700
So he was stressed.
He was, yes, very stressed out

360
00:21:20,700 –> 00:21:26,100
so much so that his mom said it
turned him religious, which is

361
00:21:26,200 –> 00:21:28,300
an interesting twist.
Yeah.

362
00:21:28,400 –> 00:21:30,900
His girlfriend were called him
saying that quote, there were

363
00:21:30,900 –> 00:21:34,000
things he had done that could
get him in trouble with the US

364
00:21:34,000 –> 00:21:36,900
government.
But there’s an interesting twist

365
00:21:36,900 –> 00:21:40,600
here in that the equipment he
ends up buying from this Vico

366
00:21:40,700 –> 00:21:47,100
company required an License from
the US Commerce department, and

367
00:21:47,100 –> 00:21:50,400
they got that license, right?
So, the u.s. at least knew a

368
00:21:50,408 –> 00:21:55,000
little bit about what it’s doing
and wasn’t obviously that

369
00:21:55,000 –> 00:21:58,500
concerned, sure.
I mean, yeah, I have to imagine

370
00:21:58,500 –> 00:22:00,700
that.
Yeah, that seems like, they just

371
00:22:00,700 –> 00:22:01,700
knew.
Yeah.

372
00:22:02,300 –> 00:22:05,700
And so if it was the US
government, that was upset at

373
00:22:05,700 –> 00:22:09,200
feels like that trouble would
have come a little sooner,

374
00:22:09,600 –> 00:22:10,800
right?
Then it did.

375
00:22:10,800 –> 00:22:13,200
Because he was obviously, on our
way Radar.

376
00:22:13,200 –> 00:22:15,700
Granted, this is the US
government.

377
00:22:16,500 –> 00:22:20,500
The only thing that works about
it is like our bombs basically

378
00:22:20,700 –> 00:22:22,700
and that kind of a fucking
nightmare.

379
00:22:22,700 –> 00:22:28,500
I don’t know what kind of green
screen font CRT terminal keeping

380
00:22:28,500 –> 00:22:32,800
track of this shit on right
within the depths of the US

381
00:22:32,800 –> 00:22:36,700
government but it’s a printed
out on dot matrix paper.

382
00:22:36,700 –> 00:22:41,500
And yeah, could be that too.
If I had to guess, I would say

383
00:22:41,500 –> 00:22:45,400
it was something that happened.
That steak house goodbye lunch.

384
00:22:45,500 –> 00:22:49,400
Hmm did him in because yes he
did briefly see a psychiatrist

385
00:22:49,600 –> 00:22:54,100
in the weeks before his death
and that can point in the

386
00:22:54,100 –> 00:22:56,700
suicide explanation Direction
there.

387
00:22:56,800 –> 00:23:00,200
But again, everyone says he was
mostly just happy to be leaving

388
00:23:00,200 –> 00:23:02,700
and then he gets some really
good news at that.

389
00:23:02,700 –> 00:23:05,200
Going-away party lunch with his
co-workers.

390
00:23:05,300 –> 00:23:08,800
He mentions that he’d accepted a
new job with a company called

391
00:23:08,800 –> 00:23:13,400
Nouveau.
Tronics, a u.s. research, Firm

392
00:23:13,400 –> 00:23:17,400
that works with the US defense,
department and NASA.

393
00:23:17,400 –> 00:23:20,600
Now if we’re looking for motive
for someone to kill Shane Todd,

394
00:23:20,900 –> 00:23:23,000
I think that’s it.
Yeah.

395
00:23:23,400 –> 00:23:27,500
Look like I don’t want a victim
blame but like maybe have like a

396
00:23:27,508 –> 00:23:32,200
buffer job between your defense
contractor positions, you know?

397
00:23:32,200 –> 00:23:36,700
Like maybe like go work.
It like a Big, Lots or something

398
00:23:36,700 –> 00:23:41,800
Subway Subway be a sandwich are
just for a minute and then, and

399
00:23:41,800 –> 00:23:43,900
then go on to the next.
Contractor.

400
00:23:44,600 –> 00:23:47,000
Yeah.
That was a risky choice.

401
00:23:47,600 –> 00:23:48,700
And again.
Yeah.

402
00:23:48,700 –> 00:23:51,500
You don’t want a victim blame,
but also, maybe just like and

403
00:23:51,500 –> 00:23:53,800
keep that news.
Keep that news Under Wraps.

404
00:23:53,900 –> 00:23:57,000
Yeah, I’m obviously, like, I
would never suggest that.

405
00:23:57,000 –> 00:23:59,600
Yeah, it’s just funny.
Yeah.

406
00:23:59,600 –> 00:24:04,700
But I do think that would be
your motive if yeah, another

407
00:24:04,700 –> 00:24:08,300
government was working on
something that they didn’t want

408
00:24:08,300 –> 00:24:11,900
the United States to know about.
First of all, network with a

409
00:24:11,908 –> 00:24:14,500
u.s.
Fucking scientist on it.

410
00:24:14,900 –> 00:24:18,500
Yes, this guy was really good.
Like he was at one point an

411
00:24:18,500 –> 00:24:23,600
article described him as a
doctor of Gan devices.

412
00:24:23,600 –> 00:24:29,400
Like he got a doctorate just in
those which that’s got to be a

413
00:24:29,400 –> 00:24:33,600
limited talent pool to draw.
Well maybe I mean if they’re

414
00:24:33,600 –> 00:24:36,600
that useful then maybe not.
Yeah knows.

415
00:24:36,600 –> 00:24:40,200
But yeah, he lets everyone know
is about to go work for a US

416
00:24:40,200 –> 00:24:42,700
company that works with United
States military.

417
00:24:42,900 –> 00:24:45,200
And if this was a foreign
government working on this

418
00:24:45,200 –> 00:24:49,300
project for their military, I
can see them wanting him killed.

419
00:24:49,300 –> 00:24:52,800
So he didn’t take what he
learned back to the United

420
00:24:52,800 –> 00:24:53,800
States.
Yeah.

421
00:24:54,100 –> 00:24:57,300
That might have been the plan
the whole time maybe.

422
00:24:57,600 –> 00:24:58,400
Yeah.
Maybe.

423
00:24:58,400 –> 00:25:00,300
Because you would have to know
he’s going to go back.

424
00:25:00,300 –> 00:25:02,900
Yeah.
So the next stop for the Todd

425
00:25:02,900 –> 00:25:06,300
family, was the Singapore police
where they talked to a guy named

426
00:25:06,300 –> 00:25:11,000
detective Muhammad khaldoon and
he reiterated the police story

427
00:25:11,000 –> 00:25:14,900
about how Shane hung himself.
This is where they hand over the

428
00:25:15,100 –> 00:25:19,200
printouts of the suicide notes
that they said were on Shane’s

429
00:25:19,200 –> 00:25:23,300
computer because suicide is no
time to leave a personal touch

430
00:25:23,300 –> 00:25:27,200
for the ones we love.
Yeah, you’re going to want that

431
00:25:27,200 –> 00:25:30,700
to be really cold and
unforgiving and did tight calm.

432
00:25:30,700 –> 00:25:37,800
Yeah, Sands that would be very
funny.

433
00:25:39,700 –> 00:25:42,300
And so one was addressed to Dear
everyone.

434
00:25:42,900 –> 00:25:45,800
The other two, dear Mom and Dad
and then there were three

435
00:25:45,800 –> 00:25:48,800
shorter notes for his
girlfriend, his brothers and his

436
00:25:49,000 –> 00:25:53,700
friends which that’s that’s a
lot that’s yeah, put a lot of

437
00:25:53,700 –> 00:25:56,200
thought into it.
Shane’s mom, read the notes,

438
00:25:56,200 –> 00:25:59,600
then handed them back to the
detective and said my son might

439
00:25:59,600 –> 00:26:01,900
have killed himself but he did
not write this.

440
00:26:02,200 –> 00:26:07,700
Yeah and that’s always pretty
damning evidence in my opinion.

441
00:26:07,800 –> 00:26:10,600
Yeah.
Like for one thing, you know, if

442
00:26:10,600 –> 00:26:14,400
you’re typing out a suicide
note, That’s sketchy in and of

443
00:26:14,400 –> 00:26:16,000
itself.
Yeah.

444
00:26:16,100 –> 00:26:17,900
Yeah.
Do you think, do you think in

445
00:26:17,900 –> 00:26:23,700
2023 like conspirators?
We are using like, Chad, GPT to

446
00:26:23,700 –> 00:26:27,900
make fake suicide notes for
their victims, like, coming up

447
00:26:27,900 –> 00:26:30,100
with, it would be.
This is what this would sound

448
00:26:30,100 –> 00:26:32,700
like.
If not, they will be soon.

449
00:26:32,700 –> 00:26:35,200
Now that he had put that out in
the air.

450
00:26:35,500 –> 00:26:38,300
Yeah, that’s my fault because
it’s not.

451
00:26:38,500 –> 00:26:41,400
I mean, it’s not the worst idea.
You run enough of person’s

452
00:26:41,400 –> 00:26:45,800
writing and social Yes, yeah,
it’s not the worst idea.

453
00:26:45,800 –> 00:26:50,100
It’s close.
It’s up there, it’s up there,

454
00:26:50,100 –> 00:26:54,600
but not quite the worst.
And one of those notes in, this

455
00:26:54,600 –> 00:26:56,500
is the part about him hating his
job.

456
00:26:56,500 –> 00:26:59,300
Where that, oh, yeah, hers, this
is great.

457
00:26:59,400 –> 00:27:04,300
One of the notes praised ime and
its management and another

458
00:27:04,300 –> 00:27:08,000
apologize for being a burden to
his family regarding that family

459
00:27:08,000 –> 00:27:10,200
thing.
His mom was like, he’s always

460
00:27:10,200 –> 00:27:14,900
been a great student, he left,
Immediately to go to college.

461
00:27:15,000 –> 00:27:18,400
Yeah, job right away.
He’s been the opposite of a

462
00:27:18,400 –> 00:27:21,500
burden like his whole life,
right?

463
00:27:21,600 –> 00:27:24,700
And then his girlfriend is the
one who was like, he hated that

464
00:27:24,700 –> 00:27:28,500
job and he hated the management
there.

465
00:27:28,800 –> 00:27:31,600
There is no way he would have
thanked them in.

466
00:27:31,600 –> 00:27:34,100
Yes suicide.
No, it’s real.

467
00:27:34,100 –> 00:27:37,000
Did the management write this
energy?

468
00:27:37,000 –> 00:27:40,100
Yeah.
It’s like it’s like did his

469
00:27:40,100 –> 00:27:44,900
manager kill him like was it?
Personal job, I would

470
00:27:44,900 –> 00:27:48,600
specifically request a promotion
for my coworker.

471
00:27:50,300 –> 00:27:54,400
Yeah, we’ve got no idea who
could have done this, but they

472
00:27:54,400 –> 00:27:56,100
did ask that you get a
promotion.

473
00:27:56,100 –> 00:28:00,400
So, here we are.
So, prior to having Shane,

474
00:28:00,400 –> 00:28:05,400
buried in Pomona California, his
family asked Mortuary, take

475
00:28:05,400 –> 00:28:09,000
photographs of Shane’s body.
They sent those to a pathologist

476
00:28:09,000 –> 00:28:11,500
dr.
Edward adelstein chief of

477
00:28:11,500 –> 00:28:16,100
pathology, at the Res Truman,
Veterans Hospital in Missouri.

478
00:28:16,700 –> 00:28:19,000
Just how they say it, there is
how they say it.

479
00:28:19,000 –> 00:28:22,900
And he wrote up a report that
suggested that the bruising on

480
00:28:22,900 –> 00:28:25,600
Shane’s Knuckles and hands
should have been examined

481
00:28:25,600 –> 00:28:28,700
further to see if they were from
a struggle with another person.

482
00:28:28,700 –> 00:28:31,600
And also that the marks on
Shane’s neck were more

483
00:28:31,600 –> 00:28:36,200
indicative of a quick death as
opposed to Suicide, his theory

484
00:28:36,200 –> 00:28:39,500
was that Shane did not hang to
death but was instead garroted

485
00:28:39,500 –> 00:28:41,500
to death by an attacker?
Yes.

486
00:28:41,600 –> 00:28:43,800
Wouldn’t those ball take about
Same amount of time.

487
00:28:43,900 –> 00:28:47,300
No, I don’t think so.
A grown-up could crush your

488
00:28:47,300 –> 00:28:50,100
windpipe.
Yeah, but it didn’t hang

489
00:28:50,500 –> 00:28:54,500
technically supposed to also,
but if if you’re hanging

490
00:28:54,500 –> 00:28:58,600
yourself in the way that they’re
saying that he hung himself

491
00:28:58,600 –> 00:29:03,600
which is like using his body
weight to press down on his

492
00:29:03,600 –> 00:29:06,900
larynx from like some crazy Rube
Goldberg device.

493
00:29:06,900 –> 00:29:08,600
Yeah.
That would take a lot longer

494
00:29:08,700 –> 00:29:11,400
because that you’re basically
Dying by asphyxiation.

495
00:29:11,500 –> 00:29:12,600
Yeah.
I suppose.

496
00:29:12,800 –> 00:29:17,500
It’s a garage, a gerak can also
sever arteries.

497
00:29:17,500 –> 00:29:21,700
Like there’s all sorts of extra
damage that the garage, does you

498
00:29:21,700 –> 00:29:24,000
sure know a lot about how a
garrotte works?

499
00:29:24,300 –> 00:29:27,900
Yeah, I played several Hitman
games and they’re all.

500
00:29:28,100 –> 00:29:30,300
Where were you, when JonBenet
Ramsey died?

501
00:29:31,500 –> 00:29:36,200
I think it was in kindergarten.
Probably not you then, okay, I

502
00:29:36,208 –> 00:29:39,600
mean, probably not look, I
didn’t have all my faculties

503
00:29:39,600 –> 00:29:41,700
back then, yeah, it would be
hard to remember.

504
00:29:41,700 –> 00:29:45,500
Hey, we would forgive Yeah, I
was a kid.

505
00:29:45,500 –> 00:29:46,700
It was playful.
Come on.

506
00:29:50,200 –> 00:29:53,500
So they send this report to the
Singapore police and they’re

507
00:29:53,500 –> 00:29:55,500
like get fucked.
It was suicide.

508
00:29:55,600 –> 00:29:58,400
We don’t care about those in
this exact words of the

509
00:29:58,408 –> 00:30:02,000
statements is a quote from the
Singapore police nuts, huh?

510
00:30:02,400 –> 00:30:06,200
And around the same time, they
had that hard drive was Shane’s

511
00:30:06,200 –> 00:30:10,600
work files on it examined by a
computer analyst who found that

512
00:30:10,600 –> 00:30:14,800
someone access the hard drive
and and Files about the ime

513
00:30:14,800 –> 00:30:19,100
project after Shane’s death, but
before the family had possession

514
00:30:19,100 –> 00:30:21,100
of it.
So someone was in his apartment

515
00:30:21,200 –> 00:30:23,700
after he died.
Looking at his shit and I think

516
00:30:23,700 –> 00:30:26,500
they later say it was the
police.

517
00:30:26,800 –> 00:30:28,300
Which that was my thought too.
Was.

518
00:30:28,500 –> 00:30:30,700
Yeah, the police.
But also why would the police

519
00:30:30,700 –> 00:30:34,100
leave that there and take all
his other shit?

520
00:30:34,200 –> 00:30:37,800
Yeah, that is strange if someone
looked over and I don’t know why

521
00:30:37,800 –> 00:30:41,800
anyone any conspirator would
leave that hard drive if they

522
00:30:41,800 –> 00:30:45,200
had seen it and Went through it.
Yeah, I mean maybe they just

523
00:30:45,200 –> 00:30:48,100
forgot.
Wow, I mean that happens like I

524
00:30:48,108 –> 00:30:50,200
guess I watched enough True
Crime.

525
00:30:50,200 –> 00:30:53,000
I know there’s crimes out there
that have been solved because

526
00:30:53,000 –> 00:30:56,000
the person who did it left a
checklist, like something that

527
00:30:56,000 –> 00:30:59,700
would happen in HBO’s, Barry,
exact never seen.

528
00:30:59,700 –> 00:31:02,400
I’ve never seen Barry.
I just know it’s a rather hit,

529
00:31:02,400 –> 00:31:04,900
man, it’s good, but I haven’t
kept up with it.

530
00:31:04,900 –> 00:31:07,200
I’m a couple Seasons behind
anyway.

531
00:31:13,900 –> 00:31:17,200
Hey everybody, this is Adam host
of the podcast.

532
00:31:17,200 –> 00:31:20,100
You’re listening to right now
just wanted to drop in and let

533
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you know about another podcast
in mind that you might want to

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It’s called you don’t even like

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co-host, and Isel and Travis

536
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Do a deep dive into the Antics

537
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and excesses of some of
history’s.

538
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Most divisive bands.
We’ve got Seasons about corn,

539
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Earle.

540
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and a new season about Fleetwood

541
00:31:47,800 –> 00:31:52,400
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hey I know you think you don’t

542
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about corn for example, but

543
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546
00:32:04,200 –> 00:32:06,800
Thanks, we love you.
Let’s get back to the show.

547
00:32:16,800 –> 00:32:21,100
So as a result of this, the
family returns to Singapore to

548
00:32:21,100 –> 00:32:24,200
once again, try to get someone
to look into Shane’s death.

549
00:32:24,500 –> 00:32:26,500
The first person they met at the
u.s. embassy.

550
00:32:26,500 –> 00:32:30,400
Essentially lectured them about
the seriousness of accusing the

551
00:32:30,400 –> 00:32:32,500
Singapore, police, and being
corrupt.

552
00:32:32,500 –> 00:32:35,200
Yeah, cool Vibes.
Yeah, thanks man.

553
00:32:35,300 –> 00:32:38,500
But then another Embassy
representative shared, some

554
00:32:38,500 –> 00:32:42,800
interesting news, which was that
the FBI wanted to be involved

555
00:32:42,800 –> 00:32:46,300
into the investigation Saints
death, and that offer.

556
00:32:46,400 –> 00:32:48,700
Was rejected by the Singapore
police.

557
00:32:48,800 –> 00:32:52,400
So there’s a whole lot of
nothing to see here.

558
00:32:52,400 –> 00:32:56,900
Please stop asking energy coming
from the Singapore police

559
00:32:57,000 –> 00:33:00,300
because why wouldn’t you just
let the FBI look into it?

560
00:33:00,400 –> 00:33:03,400
Yeah, why not?
Well, I mean, look, I mean,

561
00:33:03,600 –> 00:33:06,200
what, what do we know from
police police movies?

562
00:33:06,200 –> 00:33:10,000
They hate jurisdictional moves
like that.

563
00:33:10,000 –> 00:33:13,200
I don’t know.
Fucking that’s the police, don’t

564
00:33:13,200 –> 00:33:15,600
deserve the, that sort of
benefit of the doubt.

565
00:33:17,300 –> 00:33:22,500
And I mean, who’s the closer
Ally with Singapore China or the

566
00:33:22,500 –> 00:33:25,400
United States?
Probably China.

567
00:33:25,400 –> 00:33:27,700
Right, eye mask.
I don’t consume China.

568
00:33:27,700 –> 00:33:31,000
I don’t know enough about
diplomacy in the world stage to

569
00:33:31,000 –> 00:33:35,400
know that for sure.
But I know geographically where

570
00:33:35,400 –> 00:33:39,400
Singapore it’s yeah.
It just makes more sense that it

571
00:33:39,400 –> 00:33:43,400
would be heavily involved with
China, right?

572
00:33:43,500 –> 00:33:46,300
So I can see China going to them
and be in like this.

573
00:33:46,400 –> 00:33:47,800
Was a suicide.
Sure.

574
00:33:47,800 –> 00:33:50,300
How or maybe just good
old-fashioned money and to be

575
00:33:50,300 –> 00:33:52,500
fair, I could see the United
States doing that to die.

576
00:33:52,500 –> 00:33:56,100
Could all absolutely.
They’re not off the suspect less

577
00:33:56,100 –> 00:34:00,700
not know, they’re just low.
Yeah I didn’t like it really

578
00:34:00,700 –> 00:34:03,300
doesn’t feel like something like
an American job.

579
00:34:03,300 –> 00:34:05,000
It just doesn’t feel like it you
know.

580
00:34:05,400 –> 00:34:09,500
But well if nothing else the
United States would okay, see

581
00:34:09,500 –> 00:34:13,000
here’s what the United States
would want you to think is that

582
00:34:13,000 –> 00:34:15,800
they would wait until he got
back to the United States to do

583
00:34:15,800 –> 00:34:18,300
it.
Oh, I guess but that’s just what

584
00:34:18,300 –> 00:34:22,100
they want you to think.
So what happens in Singapore, I

585
00:34:22,107 –> 00:34:25,600
hadn’t even considered that they
can be like we would have waited

586
00:34:25,600 –> 00:34:27,500
for him to get back to the
United States.

587
00:34:27,500 –> 00:34:32,699
Yeah, I don’t think so though.
Now it’s like really care about

588
00:34:32,699 –> 00:34:36,199
that.
It’s the same, is that sort of a

589
00:34:36,199 –> 00:34:40,500
myth about how if you owe a drug
dealer, even any amount of

590
00:34:40,500 –> 00:34:42,199
money, they’re going to murder,
you sure.

591
00:34:42,300 –> 00:34:46,300
And it’s like, no, it’s more in
their benefit to keep you alive.

592
00:34:46,400 –> 00:34:50,100
As a drug addict like it when
men rather have the money back.

593
00:34:50,100 –> 00:34:51,699
Yeah.
They’d rather have the money and

594
00:34:51,699 –> 00:34:55,900
they’d rather continue selling
you drugs exactly the future if

595
00:34:55,900 –> 00:34:58,900
he was already coming our way,
that’s what I’m thinking.

596
00:34:58,900 –> 00:35:01,900
Bringing this work with him.
There would be no point for the

597
00:35:01,900 –> 00:35:04,600
United States to kill him.
Yeah, it just doesn’t really

598
00:35:04,600 –> 00:35:08,600
make any logical sense.
I can’t really get a read on a

599
00:35:08,600 –> 00:35:14,200
u.s. motive for this other than
were evil as shit and so we just

600
00:35:14,200 –> 00:35:16,100
might do it.
Yeah.

601
00:35:16,800 –> 00:35:21,600
The Todd family also met with
ime Representatives while they

602
00:35:21,600 –> 00:35:22,600
were there.
Yeah.

603
00:35:22,800 –> 00:35:27,000
And that meeting sounds like it
was really fucking intense.

604
00:35:27,400 –> 00:35:33,500
Yeah, I am e refuse to answer
any questions and at the end of

605
00:35:33,500 –> 00:35:36,200
the meeting, I am.
He’s lawyer was like, you’re not

606
00:35:36,200 –> 00:35:39,200
to ask any more questions.
You were not to call us.

607
00:35:39,200 –> 00:35:43,300
You are not the visit us, there
is to be no more investigation

608
00:35:43,500 –> 00:35:48,000
things and they were like out
which that feels Suspect little

609
00:35:48,000 –> 00:35:51,600
bit, frankly, like especially
when they’re talking about a

610
00:35:51,600 –> 00:35:54,900
former employee, like, yeah,
their employees.

611
00:35:55,000 –> 00:35:58,800
This is the thing, like we’re
talking about, you know, what?

612
00:35:58,800 –> 00:36:02,000
Could get the u.s. to do this.
We can get China to get involved

613
00:36:02,000 –> 00:36:08,700
and do this but a corporation,
it’s so easy to slip in to the

614
00:36:08,800 –> 00:36:11,300
well we can just kill him.
Mine said right?

615
00:36:11,300 –> 00:36:14,000
You know, because everything
comes down to profit margins in

616
00:36:14,000 –> 00:36:15,100
the end.
Yeah.

617
00:36:15,100 –> 00:36:19,900
And your It was like, if maybe
Huawei itself isn’t involved

618
00:36:19,900 –> 00:36:22,200
with the Chinese government, but
they still killed him.

619
00:36:22,300 –> 00:36:24,200
Yeah.
Maybe while a maybe I am me.

620
00:36:24,600 –> 00:36:27,200
Yeah.
Any number of suspects?

621
00:36:27,400 –> 00:36:30,500
Yep.
Like for real, the one of the

622
00:36:30,500 –> 00:36:33,700
suicide notes just feels like it
was written by a manager.

623
00:36:33,700 –> 00:36:35,800
I am me.
Yeah, it’s crazy.

624
00:36:36,100 –> 00:36:39,000
What’s what a weird step like,
yes.

625
00:36:39,600 –> 00:36:42,400
Oh I know what will make us look
less suspicious.

626
00:36:42,700 –> 00:36:43,700
Yeah.
Like why not?

627
00:36:43,700 –> 00:36:46,300
Be like I hate my job and that’s
why.

628
00:36:46,400 –> 00:36:50,500
Why I want to die or whatever,
you know that make that would at

629
00:36:50,500 –> 00:36:53,300
least kind of makes sense.
Sorry.

630
00:36:53,300 –> 00:36:58,800
Uncle Sam be great.
Anything would be better than

631
00:36:58,800 –> 00:37:02,000
what they came up with?
Yeah, sorry, Uncle Sam.

632
00:37:02,200 –> 00:37:05,800
So Against All Odds, this
Financial Times article ends

633
00:37:05,800 –> 00:37:08,300
with what seems like it’s going
to be good news.

634
00:37:08,500 –> 00:37:11,900
After all the pressure the
authorities in Singapore finally

635
00:37:11,900 –> 00:37:16,200
gave in and inform the Todd
family that a Coroner’s inquest.

636
00:37:16,400 –> 00:37:19,700
Would be held to investigate the
death of Shane Todd.

637
00:37:19,800 –> 00:37:25,100
They also asked if in the name
of aiding that investigation, if

638
00:37:25,100 –> 00:37:28,200
the Todd family would maybe
consider returning that hard

639
00:37:28,200 –> 00:37:32,700
drive, hmm, they removed from
his apartment, which fucking

640
00:37:32,700 –> 00:37:35,300
elal.
Would you kindly?

641
00:37:36,400 –> 00:37:39,000
They did not return the hard
drive they offered to send a

642
00:37:39,000 –> 00:37:42,000
copy of the contents and it’s
like, they already have that.

643
00:37:42,000 –> 00:37:45,600
I’m sure.
So, the coroner’s inquest

644
00:37:45,600 –> 00:37:48,300
convenes.
He’s in May 2013.

645
00:37:48,600 –> 00:37:52,300
Hmm.
And by July 2013 concluded, once

646
00:37:52,300 –> 00:37:56,900
again that Shane Todd died by
his own hand, things did not go

647
00:37:56,900 –> 00:37:59,500
well for the Todd family during
this inquest.

648
00:37:59,600 –> 00:38:02,800
Yeah, for one thing the medical
examiner from Missouri who

649
00:38:02,800 –> 00:38:06,800
concluded Shane was garroted
revise that position under

650
00:38:06,800 –> 00:38:09,700
questioning.
Hmm, he still maintained that

651
00:38:09,700 –> 00:38:12,900
Shane was probably killed but
just wasn’t garroted.

652
00:38:13,000 –> 00:38:15,600
Sure.
And even that position put him

653
00:38:15,700 –> 00:38:17,700
at odds.
With four other medical

654
00:38:17,700 –> 00:38:21,800
examiners, who testified to from
the u.s. into from Singapore.

655
00:38:21,900 –> 00:38:24,100
Here’s the thing, that doesn’t
mean that much to me.

656
00:38:24,100 –> 00:38:26,500
Sure.
Because one thing I know from

657
00:38:26,500 –> 00:38:30,900
watching a ton of true crime,
documentaries and TV shows is

658
00:38:30,900 –> 00:38:34,900
that no matter what side of a
case you’re on, you can find a

659
00:38:34,900 –> 00:38:39,500
scientist who will come to court
and argue for your side of

660
00:38:39,500 –> 00:38:41,200
things.
Absolutely.

661
00:38:41,200 –> 00:38:45,300
And not to mention the fact that
all of these experts are making

662
00:38:45,300 –> 00:38:49,300
their decisions, It’s based on
photographs of a corpse, not

663
00:38:49,300 –> 00:38:52,100
from a physical examination,
right?

664
00:38:52,100 –> 00:38:56,600
And without any of the
extenuating circumstances,

665
00:38:56,600 –> 00:38:58,500
right?
Really taken into account.

666
00:38:58,500 –> 00:39:01,600
I doubt they were taking his
employment situation.

667
00:39:01,800 –> 00:39:03,700
Sure.
Do account any other national

668
00:39:03,700 –> 00:39:05,600
security stuff?
Well, yeah.

669
00:39:05,600 –> 00:39:10,100
And also, Not only was it a
corpse but it was like weeks old

670
00:39:10,100 –> 00:39:12,000
by the time, it was
photographed, right?

671
00:39:12,000 –> 00:39:14,900
Like and that’s going to make
things look different.

672
00:39:15,000 –> 00:39:18,200
And who knows?
Yeah so the US Embassy in

673
00:39:18,200 –> 00:39:23,200
Singapore who I really don’t.
Trust this all turns out not at

674
00:39:23,200 –> 00:39:26,200
all released.
A statement that said, quote the

675
00:39:26,200 –> 00:39:29,700
inquiry into dr.
Todd’s death was comprehensive

676
00:39:29,700 –> 00:39:34,100
fair and transparent.
Hmm, wasn’t mission

677
00:39:34,100 –> 00:39:36,500
accomplished.
Exactly.

678
00:39:36,700 –> 00:39:39,600
And so, meanwhile, the Todd
family, they withdrew their

679
00:39:39,600 –> 00:39:43,000
support of the inquiry almost as
soon as it started.

680
00:39:43,200 –> 00:39:45,300
Yeah.
And we’re not present when the

681
00:39:45,300 –> 00:39:48,000
verdict was announced.
This is a quote from Rick Todd.

682
00:39:48,000 –> 00:39:52,300
It was apparent that the state
was only interested in proving

683
00:39:52,300 –> 00:39:55,100
suicide.
And that was why we left, they

684
00:39:55,100 –> 00:39:58,000
never interviewed us.
And it became obvious from the

685
00:39:58,000 –> 00:40:01,400
court that they never
investigated the possibility of

686
00:40:01,400 –> 00:40:04,500
murder.
Yeah, so that’s shady.

687
00:40:04,500 –> 00:40:09,200
Yeah, it makes sense and Against
All Odds, it’s about to get

688
00:40:09,200 –> 00:40:13,300
shadier because the family
continued looking into things on

689
00:40:13,300 –> 00:40:16,200
their own but they hit a pretty
big roadblock.

690
00:40:16,400 –> 00:40:21,300
In mid-2014 four months, they’d
been requesting two pieces of

691
00:40:21,300 –> 00:40:24,900
evidence The Noose.
And the towel, the are found

692
00:40:24,900 –> 00:40:28,900
around Shane’s neck when his
body was discovered because

693
00:40:29,000 –> 00:40:33,500
according to reports conducted
during that Coroner’s inquest

694
00:40:33,600 –> 00:40:40,400
both items contain the DNA of
two unknown persons, which

695
00:40:40,400 –> 00:40:44,100
that’s pretty important.
Yeah, but because the ruling was

696
00:40:44,100 –> 00:40:46,100
suicide and they never did a
murder.

697
00:40:46,300 –> 00:40:49,200
Investigation.
They never tested that DNA to

698
00:40:49,200 –> 00:40:52,400
see who it belonged to hmm,
which seems like pretty

699
00:40:52,400 –> 00:40:55,500
important stuff in a case of
this magnitude.

700
00:40:55,500 –> 00:40:59,900
So of course, shortly after the
coroner’s inquiry ended, the

701
00:40:59,900 –> 00:41:05,200
Singapore police destroyed the
Noose, and the towel, both and

702
00:41:05,200 –> 00:41:07,000
their argument was that it was
standard.

703
00:41:07,000 –> 00:41:12,000
Operating procedure to destroy
items associated with a suicide.

704
00:41:12,300 –> 00:41:15,400
It’s standard operating
procedure to destroy

705
00:41:15,400 –> 00:41:18,100
incriminating.
Evidence for people who bribe us

706
00:41:18,800 –> 00:41:21,600
exactly.
That’s all there is very

707
00:41:21,600 –> 00:41:25,500
standard and they would have
destroyed this at a time when

708
00:41:25,500 –> 00:41:28,300
there are Court.
Motions being filed back and

709
00:41:28,300 –> 00:41:31,200
forth over this, there’s letters
being sent over.

710
00:41:31,500 –> 00:41:36,000
There’s a hubbub.
Yeah, it’s a pretty big deal and

711
00:41:36,000 –> 00:41:39,000
eventually they’re just like
sorry, we burnt that shit.

712
00:41:39,000 –> 00:41:41,300
Whoops.
Oh no.

713
00:41:41,500 –> 00:41:43,000
Do you want us to send you a
different one?

714
00:41:44,000 –> 00:41:49,000
Different one.
We can send to you.

715
00:41:49,300 –> 00:41:53,900
We got this Singapore, PD, hand
towel, can send you one of those

716
00:41:54,000 –> 00:41:56,300
old-fashioned.
Like the one that we left on

717
00:41:56,300 –> 00:41:58,100
your son’s body.
Exactly.

718
00:41:58,500 –> 00:42:02,100
At one point during this back
and forth, the Singapore,

719
00:42:02,100 –> 00:42:06,100
government wanted the family to
explain why they wanted the

720
00:42:06,100 –> 00:42:10,100
items back and their lawyer was
like, fuck you.

721
00:42:10,200 –> 00:42:13,400
Yeah, it is their property.
His quote was, it’s like

722
00:42:13,400 –> 00:42:16,100
justifying to a robber.
Why you want your belongings.

723
00:42:16,300 –> 00:42:19,700
Turned.
Nevertheless, they destroyed

724
00:42:19,700 –> 00:42:22,600
that shit great.
This is a quote from Mary Todd,

725
00:42:22,600 –> 00:42:25,800
Rick and I wanted the towel and
the strap Return To Us.

726
00:42:25,800 –> 00:42:30,200
In order to do what the SPF
should have done in the first

727
00:42:30,200 –> 00:42:34,100
place to test the DNA.
We have ample evidence that our

728
00:42:34,100 –> 00:42:37,700
son was murdered but the towel
and strap were the only DNA

729
00:42:37,700 –> 00:42:40,600
evidence in Shane’s case and now
they have been destroyed

730
00:42:40,600 –> 00:42:42,400
forever.
So that’s a bummer.

731
00:42:42,400 –> 00:42:44,900
Yeah, big bumping say,
especially when you take this

732
00:42:44,900 –> 00:42:47,700
next piece of info in, Into
account as part of their own

733
00:42:47,700 –> 00:42:50,000
investigation.
The Todd family had Shane’s

734
00:42:50,000 –> 00:42:53,600
alleged suicide notes, examined
by two separate experts.

735
00:42:53,700 –> 00:42:57,700
One doctor, Carole chaski
executive director of The

736
00:42:57,700 –> 00:43:01,000
Institute, for linguistic
evidence in Delaware, use code

737
00:43:01,000 –> 00:43:05,000
on Pops at checkout, say, 15
percent off your first semester.

738
00:43:05,000 –> 00:43:09,500
Wow, sent the Todd’s and
official assessment that said in

739
00:43:09,500 –> 00:43:13,200
part that quote, the alleged
suicide note is not a real

740
00:43:13,200 –> 00:43:15,600
suicide note.
She said she would be willing to

741
00:43:15,600 –> 00:43:19,400
testify, Court over those
findings another expert, dr.

742
00:43:19,400 –> 00:43:23,100
David Camp, a professor of
Criminal Justice at Blackburn

743
00:43:23,100 –> 00:43:27,900
College in Illinois, wrote a
10-page analysis, that concluded

744
00:43:27,900 –> 00:43:31,300
that the notes were quote, not
written by a person who was

745
00:43:31,300 –> 00:43:35,600
socialized in the same culture
or with the same linguistic

746
00:43:35,600 –> 00:43:39,200
pattern and quote.
But again, that was all like

747
00:43:39,200 –> 00:43:41,400
seven or eight years ago.
Exactly.

748
00:43:41,800 –> 00:43:45,200
And it’s seeming.
Like, that’s probably where

749
00:43:45,200 –> 00:43:47,300
things.
Are going to end.

750
00:43:47,600 –> 00:43:50,000
Yeah.
In terms of the investigation

751
00:43:50,200 –> 00:43:52,700
into the death of Shane Todd.
What do you think?

752
00:43:52,800 –> 00:43:55,800
Do you think he killed himself
or do you think he was murdered?

753
00:43:55,900 –> 00:43:59,800
I think it’s a tragic accident.
You know actually tripped

754
00:43:59,800 –> 00:44:02,700
tripped and hit his neck on the
counter and right.

755
00:44:02,700 –> 00:44:05,500
Got the strap in the towel
wrapped around it.

756
00:44:05,700 –> 00:44:09,100
Exactly, yeah, yeah, no.
I mean, I it feels like, I don’t

757
00:44:09,100 –> 00:44:10,300
know.
I think I am Ebro really.

758
00:44:10,300 –> 00:44:13,300
Did it ever really?
That’s the vibe I kept getting.

759
00:44:13,800 –> 00:44:19,100
Yeah, I Ami is a Possible
culprit to because he was going

760
00:44:19,100 –> 00:44:21,900
to be taking that shit to
another company.

761
00:44:21,900 –> 00:44:24,000
That’s exactly working in the
same space.

762
00:44:24,300 –> 00:44:28,100
Yeah.
It also seems like the time of

763
00:44:28,100 –> 00:44:32,800
his death is a little sketchy
like in terms of when exactly he

764
00:44:32,800 –> 00:44:35,800
died.
I wonder if they kidnapped him

765
00:44:35,800 –> 00:44:39,800
first and then sent someone in
to like, see if he had

766
00:44:39,800 –> 00:44:41,900
downloaded those files, which he
had.

767
00:44:42,000 –> 00:44:46,000
Yeah, but even then, my maybe
take that hard drive, I don’t

768
00:44:46,000 –> 00:44:46,500
know.
No.

769
00:44:47,500 –> 00:44:51,600
Yeah, it’s hard to say doesn’t
feel like he did it himself?

770
00:44:52,000 –> 00:44:57,300
No seems unlikely but who knows
there is one more really

771
00:44:57,300 –> 00:45:01,300
interesting twist even though
there is no real ending or

772
00:45:01,300 –> 00:45:05,100
resolution to the story?
No it seems like it mostly ends

773
00:45:05,100 –> 00:45:08,200
with Singapore destroying those
last two pieces of evidence but

774
00:45:08,200 –> 00:45:12,100
family has not given up most
recent development on their end

775
00:45:12,100 –> 00:45:15,500
is that Mary Todd ran for
congress in.

776
00:45:16,400 –> 00:45:20,300
In 2022, which is where the
family lives with solving the

777
00:45:20,300 –> 00:45:24,400
mystery of her son’s death as
part of her platform.

778
00:45:24,500 –> 00:45:26,400
You just don’t get that one,
very often.

779
00:45:26,500 –> 00:45:30,900
Yeah, in a political platform, I
want to solve my son’s murder,

780
00:45:32,200 –> 00:45:35,500
but also, I don’t know.
We all grieve Our Own Way

781
00:45:35,700 –> 00:45:39,600
butter.
I found this sentence from The

782
00:45:39,600 –> 00:45:43,300
Shane section of her campaign
website, a little odd.

783
00:45:43,300 –> 00:45:46,000
She ran as a conservative,
should be, not a surprise.

784
00:45:46,200 –> 00:45:49,700
Sighs given this line quote, we
went to our government and met

785
00:45:49,700 –> 00:45:53,600
with officials in the Obama
Administration and ultimately

786
00:45:53,900 –> 00:45:56,400
they did nothing and quote.
Yeah.

787
00:45:56,700 –> 00:45:59,500
And it’s like I feel you Mary
but Trump clearly didn’t do

788
00:45:59,500 –> 00:46:03,800
anything either.
Yeah I do know that your son’s

789
00:46:03,800 –> 00:46:09,300
death is a partisan issue.
That’s the thing that’s really

790
00:46:09,300 –> 00:46:12,300
weird about it to me.
Yeah definitely thoughts and

791
00:46:12,300 –> 00:46:13,600
prayers.
Yeah.

792
00:46:13,600 –> 00:46:15,400
Absolutely.
I feel terrible that this

793
00:46:15,400 –> 00:46:19,800
happened to the Yeah.
Son’s death for a reason.

794
00:46:20,100 –> 00:46:23,600
Yeah.
Which is I believe you Mary.

795
00:46:23,600 –> 00:46:26,500
I believe he was murdered.
But also did you even asked

796
00:46:26,500 –> 00:46:28,900
Trump?
If so, what did he say?

797
00:46:29,100 –> 00:46:33,100
Eat doesn’t even know where
Montana is now.

798
00:46:33,200 –> 00:46:36,400
No, absolutely not.
He would probably point at

799
00:46:36,400 –> 00:46:44,700
Wyoming mean I might to come on
can’t promise anything when kids

800
00:46:44,700 –> 00:46:46,600
got the little around.
Part.

801
00:46:46,600 –> 00:46:47,400
Oh sure.
Sure, sure.

802
00:46:47,400 –> 00:46:49,800
Sure, sure.
So, yeah, the death of Shane

803
00:46:49,800 –> 00:46:52,200
Todd is still officially ruled a
suicide.

804
00:46:52,400 –> 00:46:54,900
Yeah.
Even though Trump tried to get

805
00:46:54,900 –> 00:46:58,600
the Deep state to say otherwise.
Well, the in try hard enough,

806
00:46:58,600 –> 00:47:01,700
obviously not and didn’t cheat
her campaign, their

807
00:47:01,700 –> 00:47:04,300
Congressional Campaign didn’t go
anywhere now see lat.

808
00:47:04,300 –> 00:47:09,100
She didn’t, she came in third in
the primary, I think out, I

809
00:47:09,100 –> 00:47:12,200
guess.
Help me solve my child’s murder

810
00:47:12,200 –> 00:47:15,200
isn’t.
As universal of a platform is.

811
00:47:15,200 –> 00:47:17,000
She might have thought I really
am.

812
00:47:17,000 –> 00:47:19,600
Sorry about.
Like I’m not trying to make fun

813
00:47:19,600 –> 00:47:23,500
of her kid getting murdered.
But no you promoting it like

814
00:47:23,500 –> 00:47:25,700
that.
It’s just a weird thing to

815
00:47:25,700 –> 00:47:30,700
politicize in that way, it’s a
funny grieving process.

816
00:47:31,100 –> 00:47:33,900
Yeah.
And it’s again, I would be all

817
00:47:33,900 –> 00:47:36,500
on your side if you just left it
at.

818
00:47:36,600 –> 00:47:40,800
I went to my government and they
didn’t do anything because again

819
00:47:40,800 –> 00:47:44,700
Trump clearly didn’t do anything
either absolutely not.

820
00:47:44,700 –> 00:47:48,700
Which does kind of make Make it
seem like she’s politicizing her

821
00:47:48,700 –> 00:47:51,400
son’s death in a very needless
way.

822
00:47:51,500 –> 00:47:55,400
Yeah, it feels, it feels
exploitive, but, hey, she went

823
00:47:55,400 –> 00:47:57,900
through some shit.
Yeah, who can blame her?

824
00:47:58,000 –> 00:48:00,200
And I think that’s our episode,
right?

825
00:48:00,300 –> 00:48:01,700
I think so.
We did it.

826
00:48:01,800 –> 00:48:06,100
We did on the next episode.
I don’t know what we’re talking

827
00:48:06,100 –> 00:48:07,400
about.
Who knows?

828
00:48:07,400 –> 00:48:09,600
We’ll figure it out, but it’s a
surprise.

829
00:48:09,600 –> 00:48:14,100
Yeah, it’ll be a bonus episode
for all you subscribers which

830
00:48:14,500 –> 00:48:18,400
just a reminder as always.
If you do want to subscribe, you

831
00:48:18,400 –> 00:48:23,000
can go to patreon.com/scishow
and Pops gun pops Network, .su

832
00:48:23,000 –> 00:48:27,500
podcast.com or right there in
your Spotify app.

833
00:48:27,600 –> 00:48:30,200
You can get bonus episodes all
the time.

834
00:48:30,400 –> 00:48:33,300
All of the time.
Also you should listen to going

835
00:48:33,300 –> 00:48:37,700
back, our lost re-watch podcast
yes, which is out on the streets

836
00:48:37,700 –> 00:48:42,100
now, which is now a from
re-watch podcast for some bonus

837
00:48:42,100 –> 00:48:45,300
episodes while we’re doing the
bone Khan and those bonus

838
00:48:45,300 –> 00:48:48,000
episodes.
Odds are also available if you

839
00:48:48,000 –> 00:48:51,700
are a conspiracy subscriber, did
you catch up on season two yet?

840
00:48:51,800 –> 00:48:55,500
Not yet, I’ve been really busy
dealing with dripping snatch

841
00:48:55,500 –> 00:48:59,900
from my studio ceiling.
But yeah, this is interesting.

842
00:48:59,900 –> 00:49:01,900
I’m excited to see what’s going
on.

843
00:49:02,000 –> 00:49:05,400
Yeah, I’m excited to watch it,
so yeah, check that out.

844
00:49:05,500 –> 00:49:07,000
Olivia, do you have anything to
plug?

845
00:49:07,000 –> 00:49:10,000
No.
All right, let’s get out of

846
00:49:10,000 –> 00:49:11,300
here.
Olivia say goodbye.

847
00:49:11,400 –> 00:49:12,800
Bye.
Goodbye everybody.

848
00:49:12,800 –> 00:49:18,900
We love you.
People.