Adam and guests Connor McSpadden and Jawn Louis discuss the “theory” that officials within the 1980 Ronald Reagan presidential campaign intentionally delayed the release of American hostages in Iran in an effort to sway that year’s election.
Show notes: https://youdontshow.link/ctsoctsurprise
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Welcome to Conspiracy the Show,
the world’s most trusted
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conspiracy theory podcast with
your hosts Adam Todd Brown and
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Olivia Hydar.
Hey everybody, Welcome to
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Conspiracy the show.
I’m your host Adam Todd Brown.
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Joining me is Co host.
Oh my favorite Co host of all.
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No Co host, but I do have a
couple of guest Co hosts.
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Connor Mcspadden and John Lewis
are here.
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You know Connor and John.
Right, everybody.
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I don’t know who I’m asking.
The people listening.
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Yeah, they know you.
Hey, thank you both for doing
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the show.
Connor, how’s it going?
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Good.
I think me and Adam both need a
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little sleep.
Yeah, yeah, there’s.
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A lot of qualifiers in that
intro.
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I’m running on fumes, but that’s
fine.
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We’re talking about a subject
I’m passionate about this week,
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so I’ll perk.
Up.
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Yeah, this is a good one.
Yeah, John Lewis, how are you
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doing?
I’m all right.
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I’m three hours in the future,
so it’s a little bit later out
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here.
Oh, that’s right.
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It’s going to be tomorrow where
you are before it’s tomorrow
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where we are.
Crazy, man.
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I’m smoking a lot of weed while
we do this.
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Will you tell me if I get my
life together tomorrow?
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Will you call me if I’m if I
figure it all out?
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Sure.
I’ll try and give you guys some
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early Lotto numbers too.
Yeah, I appreciate that.
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That would be great.
We’re talking about the October
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Surprise, which is the theory
that Reagan campaign officials
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conspired to delay the release
of American hostages in Iran
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until after the 1980 election so
as to ruin President Jimmy
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Carter’s chances of winning re
election.
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It’s a claim that’s never been
conclusively proven, but it’s
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totally been proven.
It’s such a good idea.
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There’s no way that they thought
of it and didn’t try it.
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Yeah, you know, as far as a
political maneuver goes.
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And they also weren’t subtle
about it at all.
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No.
And I said this before we
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started recording, I’m really
concerned something like this
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could happen with Israel because
the two sides that are running
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for president right now, the
incumbent, Joe Biden, is
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actively aiding the genocide
there.
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But also, he’s at least saying,
hey, can you stop killing
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civilians?
It’s getting over the top, man.
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Meanwhile, Trump is like, finish
what you started.
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I just want Israel to finish
what you started.
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I could very much see someone,
one from the Trump campaign
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getting in Israel’s ear and
being like, hey, if you wait
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till we’re in office, you can
end this war however the fuck
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you want.
And that’s not quite the same
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thing, because at least with
what Reagan did, there was a
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positive outcome in that
American hostages were released
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and in this case it would just
be Gaza getting naked.
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But that difference aside, I
could see this being a strategy
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that people use with Israel.
Am I thinking of another hostage
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situation or wasn’t a movie made
about this where they sent a
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fake Hollywood crew over?
Or is that another one?
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Are you talking about Argo?
Yeah.
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Yeah, Argo, they got people out
of the Canadian embassy, right?
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I’ve never seen it.
I just knew it was something
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about the hostage situation,
like I just, I just couldn’t.
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I haven’t seen it.
That’s what I said in my
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thinking of it.
But I know it has something to
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do with the hostage situation.
I’m like, I thought it took
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place in the 80s.
Seeing as it’s been 40 years
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since they’ve pulled this one, I
feel like it’s about time for
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them to try to back out the old
hold the hostages to fuck up the
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negotiations move, You know,
it’s like Nixon and Kissinger
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fucking keeping the Vietnam War
going for your political
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leverage.
Yeah, that also happened.
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And yeah, I can absolutely see
it happening with Israel and
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with Reagan.
This is a thing that I feel like
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there’s a lot of questions about
the October Surprise part, the
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part where the CIA, or at least
a man who went on to be the
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director of the CIA and the vice
president, also former director
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of the CIA.
We talk a lot about the October
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Surprise part, but think about
what happens next.
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This is a thing I’ve brought up
so many times in regards to the
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CIA.
The Carter administration was
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really clamping down on the CIA
and what they could do in this
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country.
And we were fresh off the Church
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Committee hearings, and everyone
was talking about all the limits
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we needed to put on the CIA.
And out of nowhere, for the
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first time in history, the
current director of the CIA
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decides, you know what?
I’m going to run for vice
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president.
And he does.
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And the CIA pulls a bunch of
strings and they win.
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And then what happens next?
Reagan almost gets assassinated
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in very weird MK Ultra fashion.
And no one adds that tag to the
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October Surprise when they’re
talking about the CIA, because
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what about that part?
If that worked, the CIA was
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president then because George
Bush would have been president.
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That feels like the logical
extension of this, and we’re
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just too scared to talk about
it.
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Yeah, it’s an interesting quote.
It’s like, who else put the Deep
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State could really be doing this
over and over again, Or why does
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this keep happening this way?
Why is it always a guy?
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And there’s an ace of the Queen
of Diamonds and all this shit,
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but it’s never just a kook with
a rifle and that.
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We haven’t done that since 63.
Even the Nipsey Hussle
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assassination felt weird to me.
I mean it.
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It felt like an assassination.
My buddy was telling me that he
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was all getting into all that
doctor CB cure cancer with
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alkaline water, whatever the
fuck shit.
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And I said that was part of the
reason that he got got.
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I’ve heard that.
I mean, in defense of rappers,
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That’s everyday common black
folks.
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I don’t know, 40% of black folks
believe that Doctor, CB and all
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that crazy shit.
So.
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And by that line of reasoning,
Nick Cannon would be
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assassinated because he just
started working on that
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documentary next, I think.
How are we going to lionize Nick
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Cannon when he died?
That’s going to be an
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interesting legacy.
Yeah, that will be.
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Nick Cannon.
I don’t know.
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Didn’t he say he got cancer?
Or no, maybe he did.
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You’re thinking of Nick Cancer?
Doctor Sebi Apricot pits.
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So the October Surprise.
It’s an incident that is alleged
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to have happened in 1979.
It’s talked about over the years
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as a thing that maybe happened,
but the first time someone
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really came forward and we’ll
link to all this in the notes
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and said conclusively, hey, this
did happen in a major way, was a
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New York Times writer named Gary
Sick.
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Also one of my favorite punk
front men.
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Yeah.
Right.
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That is an amazing stage name.
Yeah, it is great.
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Steve Ignorant Gary.
Sick.
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You know, the the goats.
The article was called The
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Election Story of the Decade and
the first thing it points to is
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the very suspicious detail that
it’s not like Reagan took office
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and oh man, a week later he,
just as if by magic, managed to
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get the hostages released.
They were literally released 5
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minutes after he was
inaugurated.
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Exactly 5 minutes.
People hadn’t even got drunk
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enough to pass out or make it to
the after party 5 minutes.
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Did they try and bury that shit
or something?
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Like when they suspended player
on a Friday afternoon so nobody
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could talk about it.
I feel like they were trying to
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throw it and Carter’s face a
little bit.
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Yeah, it’s one of these things.
Even if you’re a Reagan, Stan,
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how do you reconcile
intellectually the notion that
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they got it done in 5 minutes
the moment he became president?
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Yeah, that seems like they did
that on purpose.
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Like they wanted to really rub
Carter’s face in it and let him
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know.
They’re clearly haven’t had some
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kind of back channel going, and
if you had that, then why didn’t
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you fucking do it earlier?
So there’s that.
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Then we find out we meaning the
world, that shortly after that
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part happened, arms start
flowing to Iran.
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And I don’t mean limbs, I mean
like military weapons, which
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worth noting.
There was sanctions in place on
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Iran at the time, a full embargo
that Reagan did not have enough
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time to have lifted by that
point.
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So arms start flowing to around
through Israel.
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And the guy who wrote this
article, he worked in the Carter
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administration until that ended
and then worked on the staff of
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the National Security Council
after that, until 81.
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He says he heard about this in
81 and it first brushed it off
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as a conspiracy theory and then
started researching a book about
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the Reagan administration and
their dealings with Iran.
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And that’s where he started
noticing all these patterns and
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was like, oh shit, maybe it’s a
real thing, which, I don’t know.
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I feel like people don’t do that
kind of investigative journalism
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these days, not about the
government.
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Well, even if you do, who’s
going to print it?
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You know?
Yeah, you do it all, and then
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it’s on mintpressnews.com or
whatever, and you got 400 bucks
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or something.
There’s like 19 real journalists
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left.
Yeah.
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I don’t know who they are, don’t
ask me, but.
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Yeah, they’re all on Sub,
Stacker, Medium probably.
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Yeah.
And also, Reagan was such a
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shitty president.
Depending on who you are, this
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probably isn’t even the biggest
alleged conspiracy, because he
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also pumped metric tons of
cocaine into the black
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neighborhood with the Iraq
Contra scandal.
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All this shit happened within
his first term, right?
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This part happens before he’s
even elected.
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Okay Okay got you.
Yeah, but they were freed after
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he’s inaugurated.
Technically, Carter worked out
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that deal, which had to be a
little bittersweet for him.
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But this article, It started as
a book project, and we’ve
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already gone through it.
But this is a quote about
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basically the elevator pitch of
this theory.
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In the course of hundreds of
interviews in the US, Europe,
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and the Middle East, I’ve been
told repeatedly that individuals
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associated with the Reagan Bush
campaign of 1980 met secretly
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with Iranian officials to delay
the release the American
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hostages until after the
presidential election.
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For this favor, Iran was
rewarded with a substantial
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supply of arms from Israel.
And one of the obvious reasons
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this never came of anything is
no one wanted to talk about it
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on the record.
Go figure.
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That makes sense.
Probably get murdered.
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Yeah, and what’s your prize?
Guys like us think you’re cool?
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Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, you’re a hero now.
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The bunch of fucking people that
nobody likes champion you and
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turn your family’s lives upside
down with fucking lunatics,
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finding your personal
information to bother you about
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their private affairs.
Or you could just shut the fuck
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up, you know, and.
Yeah, the average American is
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going to be like, OK, they were
still free, so.
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Yeah.
And I think that would be the
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stance a lot of people would
take.
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It’s like big deal.
They got out and it’s like they
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were hostages and the incoming
president was like, just keep
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them for a little bit home
eventually it’s fine.
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That is highly goddamn
unethical, if nothing else.
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Very dangerous.
Yeah, they could have died in
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that time, right?
They were at war, essentially at
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that time.
There was all kinds of political
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unrest.
Iran was not a safe place.
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So to leave them there just so
you could win an election, I
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guess that’s how you make
America great again.
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That was Reagan’s slogan too.
So, according to these sources,
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that Gary Sick talked to William
Casey, who was then Reagan’s
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00:11:38,880 –> 00:11:43,520
campaign manager but future CIA
director met with a man named
219
00:11:43,520 –> 00:11:47,440
Jamsheed Hanshemi, an
international arms dealer.
220
00:11:47,680 –> 00:11:52,760
Excuse you.
With ties to the Iranian
221
00:11:52,760 –> 00:11:56,880
government at the Mayflower
Hotel in Washington, I bet
222
00:11:56,880 –> 00:11:59,800
that’s a pretty nice hotel if
it’s still open.
223
00:12:00,000 –> 00:12:03,920
And he made it known that he
wanted to prevent Jimmy Carter
224
00:12:03,920 –> 00:12:07,440
from gaining any political
advantage from the Iranian
225
00:12:07,440 –> 00:12:10,120
hostage crisis.
We don’t really have enough time
226
00:12:10,120 –> 00:12:12,560
to go into all the details of
that, but it’s exactly what it
227
00:12:12,560 –> 00:12:16,560
sounds like.
A bunch of students seized the
228
00:12:16,560 –> 00:12:19,920
American embassy in Iran and
took a whole bunch of people
229
00:12:19,920 –> 00:12:23,760
hostage, including the father of
a girl I used to work with at
230
00:12:23,760 –> 00:12:25,040
Playboy.
No.
231
00:12:25,080 –> 00:12:27,480
Shit, yeah, she was a writer
also.
232
00:12:27,640 –> 00:12:30,480
She wasn’t a model.
No, no, I made that sound way
233
00:12:30,480 –> 00:12:33,560
more scandalous than it was.
Not that it would be scandalous
234
00:12:33,560 –> 00:12:35,600
to be a model at Playboy either,
but.
235
00:12:35,880 –> 00:12:39,840
It’s just a weird trajectory.
My dad got kidnapped and I ran,
236
00:12:39,840 –> 00:12:44,360
so I became a Playboy model.
Yeah, I don’t know if the two
237
00:12:44,560 –> 00:12:46,480
would have been completely
related, I.
238
00:12:46,560 –> 00:12:48,000
Don’t know.
There’s guys in that were on The
239
00:12:48,000 –> 00:12:50,520
Amazing Race for the four
episodes that got into life
240
00:12:50,520 –> 00:12:52,360
coaching.
It doesn’t have to make sense.
241
00:12:52,840 –> 00:12:57,320
So the goal here was to keep
Carter from scoring political
242
00:12:57,320 –> 00:13:01,120
points by successfully
negotiating for the release of
243
00:13:01,120 –> 00:13:05,040
these hostages and William Casey
and Ronald Reagan.
244
00:13:05,040 –> 00:13:07,520
Maybe we’re ready to deal to
make it happen.
245
00:13:07,520 –> 00:13:12,320
That’s always the question about
Reagan is did he even know any
246
00:13:12,320 –> 00:13:15,880
of this shit was happening?
And the deeper you get into his
247
00:13:15,880 –> 00:13:19,880
presidency, I don’t know if he
knew anything that was happening
248
00:13:19,880 –> 00:13:24,760
related to his administration or
just in general, because it
249
00:13:24,760 –> 00:13:27,840
seems like he had dementia while
he was in office.
250
00:13:27,960 –> 00:13:30,520
Even during his first term.
I don’t think during his first
251
00:13:30,520 –> 00:13:32,440
term.
I think he honestly just liked
252
00:13:32,440 –> 00:13:37,000
the part where he got to spin
these folksy yarns and shit, so
253
00:13:37,000 –> 00:13:39,880
I think he probably just sat
around looking at his lines,
254
00:13:39,960 –> 00:13:42,920
Good actor that he was, and
cared very little about what was
255
00:13:42,920 –> 00:13:46,520
going on beneath him.
There is a very famous quote
256
00:13:46,680 –> 00:13:52,040
from Reagan where an interviewer
asks him if he thinks being an
257
00:13:52,040 –> 00:13:56,240
actor helped during his years as
president, and his response was,
258
00:13:56,280 –> 00:13:59,800
I don’t know how you’d be a good
president without being a good
259
00:13:59,800 –> 00:14:00,600
actor.
Wow.
260
00:14:00,800 –> 00:14:03,920
At least he was honest.
Yeah, I mean, it’s honest.
261
00:14:04,360 –> 00:14:06,400
Really giving away the whole
game there, Ronnie.
262
00:14:06,720 –> 00:14:13,520
And also to go back to my theory
for a second that maybe the CIA
263
00:14:13,520 –> 00:14:17,760
was behind him getting shot.
If that’s the case, what are the
264
00:14:17,760 –> 00:14:22,200
chances he survived and someone
got in his ear and was like, all
265
00:14:22,200 –> 00:14:26,600
right, I guess we are stuck
together for the next few years.
266
00:14:26,720 –> 00:14:30,320
You are going to do what the
fuck we say or you’ll get shot
267
00:14:30,320 –> 00:14:32,960
again probably.
That had to be just a warning
268
00:14:32,960 –> 00:14:35,560
because you would think the CIA,
they would have somebody more
269
00:14:35,560 –> 00:14:38,560
talented then the guys shoot
them from only a few feet away.
270
00:14:38,720 –> 00:14:41,120
Yeah, just fucking watched it,
right?
271
00:14:41,480 –> 00:14:45,280
Someone should do acia kill
death ratio on their coup
272
00:14:45,280 –> 00:14:47,560
attempts.
They’re probably kind of low
273
00:14:47,560 –> 00:14:50,120
batting average.
They tried to kill Castro 400
274
00:14:50,120 –> 00:14:52,360
times and couldn’t do it.
They tried to put poison in a
275
00:14:52,360 –> 00:14:54,480
swimsuit and gave it to him as a
gift.
276
00:14:54,480 –> 00:14:57,120
You know, all kinds of shit.
Yeah, I think I heard one time
277
00:14:57,200 –> 00:15:00,040
they made a camera gun or
something that was supposed to
278
00:15:00,040 –> 00:15:02,560
fire one bullet.
But I guess when you’re building
279
00:15:02,560 –> 00:15:04,120
stuff like that, it’s hard to
make a hockey.
280
00:15:04,360 –> 00:15:05,680
They made everything a gun.
He went.
281
00:15:05,720 –> 00:15:08,080
If if he went to a ball game,
there was a guy with a hot dog
282
00:15:08,080 –> 00:15:12,120
gun, you know, really.
Yeah, the CIA was way into that
283
00:15:12,120 –> 00:15:15,000
for a while.
What can we make into a gun?
284
00:15:15,160 –> 00:15:17,840
The shellfish toxin gun is still
my favorite.
285
00:15:17,960 –> 00:15:21,120
I think the show Get Smart is
probably depicts the CIA more
286
00:15:21,120 –> 00:15:23,720
accurately than any.
I’m actually 60 years old.
287
00:15:23,720 –> 00:15:25,800
I.
Was about to say.
288
00:15:25,800 –> 00:15:27,120
I’ve heard of the movie Get
Smart.
289
00:15:27,120 –> 00:15:28,600
I think I knew it was a show.
I’ve never seen it.
290
00:15:28,720 –> 00:15:30,480
Hop on TV Land and get
acquainted.
291
00:15:30,480 –> 00:15:32,720
It’s a fucking banger, dude.
Get smart rules.
292
00:15:33,560 –> 00:15:38,560
So yeah, this source that Gary
Sick talked to who claims that
293
00:15:38,560 –> 00:15:40,160
he first talked to William
Casey.
294
00:15:40,280 –> 00:15:45,520
He says he set up these meetings
in Madrid, Spain, between Casey
295
00:15:45,520 –> 00:15:50,840
and in Iranian cleric named
Mehdi Karubi, and by the end of
296
00:15:50,840 –> 00:15:53,320
those meetings, it was agreed
that they would work together
297
00:15:53,440 –> 00:15:55,560
regarding the release of the
hostages.
298
00:15:55,760 –> 00:15:59,080
In exchange, again, the Reagan
administration promised that
299
00:15:59,080 –> 00:16:03,320
once they were in office they
would not only sell arms to Iran
300
00:16:03,360 –> 00:16:08,400
through Israel, but also return
assets that were frozen by the
301
00:16:08,400 –> 00:16:12,440
American government and also
help them acquire military
302
00:16:12,440 –> 00:16:14,920
supplies.
From what I’ve read, it seems
303
00:16:14,920 –> 00:16:18,400
like that was what got Iran to
the table.
304
00:16:18,400 –> 00:16:23,000
In the 1st place was the Carter
administration not only put this
305
00:16:23,000 –> 00:16:26,680
embargo on selling arms to Iran,
but also froze all of their
306
00:16:26,680 –> 00:16:31,280
assets in the United States.
And Iran needed that money, and
307
00:16:31,280 –> 00:16:35,360
so Reagan promised to give him
that money back, and so those
308
00:16:35,360 –> 00:16:37,440
hostages had to stay a little
longer.
309
00:16:37,680 –> 00:16:39,400
I bet they were treated all
right, though.
310
00:16:39,640 –> 00:16:42,080
I was thinking that too, but how
well could they be treated?
311
00:16:42,080 –> 00:16:44,720
Because then they get back on.
It wasn’t that bad.
312
00:16:44,720 –> 00:16:48,640
But also they might just chalk
it up to people trying to do
313
00:16:48,640 –> 00:16:50,880
Stockholm Syndrome because just
because you were hostage, you
314
00:16:50,880 –> 00:16:52,960
don’t got to treat them bad.
Definitely.
315
00:16:52,960 –> 00:16:55,880
It’s just a bargain and shit.
One of the things the CIA does
316
00:16:55,880 –> 00:16:59,120
in a situation like that, or the
intelligence community in
317
00:16:59,120 –> 00:17:02,600
general, I kind of use CIA as a
blanket term for American
318
00:17:02,600 –> 00:17:06,119
intelligence.
But one of the things they’ll do
319
00:17:06,119 –> 00:17:09,839
in a situation like that is
intercept those people before
320
00:17:09,839 –> 00:17:13,800
they can talk to anyone, almost
like a crooked cop would do,
321
00:17:13,880 –> 00:17:17,280
where they pull them aside and
try to talk to a person before
322
00:17:17,280 –> 00:17:20,599
their lawyer can get there.
And the CIA will pull people
323
00:17:20,599 –> 00:17:23,480
aside and be like, all right,
tell us about your experience.
324
00:17:23,839 –> 00:17:25,680
And then they’ll tell them.
And then they’ll be like, all
325
00:17:25,680 –> 00:17:28,000
right, well, here’s what you’re
going to tell people your
326
00:17:28,000 –> 00:17:31,240
experience was, or here’s what
you’re going to leave out about
327
00:17:31,240 –> 00:17:33,960
your story.
And not even as a threat,
328
00:17:33,960 –> 00:17:37,000
probably just as Come on, take
one for the team.
329
00:17:37,000 –> 00:17:39,680
It’s the United States.
We need you to make these people
330
00:17:39,680 –> 00:17:42,680
look like assholes.
More people than not are going
331
00:17:42,680 –> 00:17:45,440
to go along with that.
You’re just happy to be back on
332
00:17:45,440 –> 00:17:49,120
American soil in front of a
government that you assume is
333
00:17:49,120 –> 00:17:50,480
friendly.
And they probably.
334
00:17:50,480 –> 00:17:52,840
Convinced you you’re doing
something patriotic.
335
00:17:53,000 –> 00:17:55,040
Yeah, exactly.
That’s what I was going to say.
336
00:17:55,040 –> 00:17:57,320
So many people just blindly
trust the government.
337
00:17:57,840 –> 00:17:59,880
Yeah, that’s kind of why this
show exists.
338
00:18:00,120 –> 00:18:03,320
If you don’t believe any
conspiracy theories, you just
339
00:18:03,320 –> 00:18:05,640
implicitly trust the government,
and that’s nuts.
340
00:18:06,080 –> 00:18:08,800
I think it might be likely that
less people than ever trust the
341
00:18:08,800 –> 00:18:11,680
government, but it’s not like
we’re always organizing or doing
342
00:18:11,680 –> 00:18:13,320
anything about it, you know,
it’s just.
343
00:18:13,520 –> 00:18:15,720
Ask Adam about trying to book
guests on this show.
344
00:18:15,720 –> 00:18:18,960
You believe that?
Yeah, people are very reluctant
345
00:18:18,960 –> 00:18:21,480
to do this show.
It’s conspiracy theories.
346
00:18:22,000 –> 00:18:24,440
Only people who have resigned
themselves, they’re never
347
00:18:24,840 –> 00:18:30,560
working anywhere significant can
brave the waters of conspiracy
348
00:18:30,560 –> 00:18:32,960
the show.
This is tangentially connected.
349
00:18:32,960 –> 00:18:35,960
But while we’re on the subject
of Reagan, I can’t remember if I
350
00:18:35,960 –> 00:18:38,040
mentioned this on the last
broadcast, but I was reading
351
00:18:38,040 –> 00:18:41,080
this book called The New Jim
Crow, and it’s essentially about
352
00:18:41,080 –> 00:18:45,400
how basically America replaced
1960s Jim Crow with the prison
353
00:18:45,400 –> 00:18:48,120
industrial complex.
So I might get the dates wrong a
354
00:18:48,120 –> 00:18:51,560
little bit, but basically Ronald
Reagan started this whole War on
355
00:18:51,560 –> 00:18:56,240
Drugs campaign back when drug
usage and arrests were at an all
356
00:18:56,240 –> 00:18:58,880
time low in America.
I think that campaign was in
357
00:18:58,880 –> 00:19:02,720
1981, and crack cocaine didn’t
start showing up.
358
00:19:02,720 –> 00:19:04,960
It’s 83 ish or something like
that.
359
00:19:05,120 –> 00:19:08,440
So it’s just a weird coincidence
that we really didn’t even have
360
00:19:08,440 –> 00:19:11,000
a drug problem.
We weren’t just throwing up
361
00:19:11,000 –> 00:19:13,280
every black person standing on
the corner at that time.
362
00:19:13,280 –> 00:19:17,040
And then he makes his campaign
like, well, guys, we got to do
363
00:19:17,040 –> 00:19:21,200
something about the drugs and
then cocaine just blows up and
364
00:19:21,200 –> 00:19:23,160
they locking people up for
smoking weed.
365
00:19:23,320 –> 00:19:28,000
I love that every person on
earth has a Reagan impression.
366
00:19:29,400 –> 00:19:33,440
It’s actually pretty fun to do.
This is my ADHD brand.
367
00:19:33,440 –> 00:19:35,440
Why do all presidents just have
a weird voice?
368
00:19:35,440 –> 00:19:37,280
You notice that, Like almost all
of them.
369
00:19:37,440 –> 00:19:40,480
Yeah, I think it’s just that we
pick their voices apart.
370
00:19:40,560 –> 00:19:43,280
I think it’s like peacocking,
like the pickup artist thing
371
00:19:43,280 –> 00:19:46,160
where you wear a Doctor Seuss
hat so people remember you.
372
00:19:46,160 –> 00:19:49,240
It’s just like we gravitate
towards unique things.
373
00:19:49,600 –> 00:19:54,240
Yeah, so if a guy is like, got
this weird George HW Bush Lil
374
00:19:54,360 –> 00:19:56,640
and his voice is kind of all
right man, for sure.
375
00:19:56,840 –> 00:20:01,080
So back to the October surprise,
after these meetings are alleged
376
00:20:01,080 –> 00:20:04,160
to have happened, and they met a
bunch of times about this.
377
00:20:04,160 –> 00:20:05,640
It wasn’t just those two
meetings.
378
00:20:05,640 –> 00:20:07,560
There were I think 10 to 15
meetings.
379
00:20:07,560 –> 00:20:10,240
It’s been said.
But after that, a really weird
380
00:20:10,240 –> 00:20:14,080
series of events happens.
Carter had been in negotiations
381
00:20:14,400 –> 00:20:17,880
with Iran to get these hostages
released.
382
00:20:18,200 –> 00:20:22,040
And the thing that was holding
it up was their demand for
383
00:20:22,120 –> 00:20:25,840
military aid and weapons.
Carter didn’t want to do that.
384
00:20:25,960 –> 00:20:29,840
And after these meetings happen,
first, Iran just out of the
385
00:20:29,840 –> 00:20:33,160
blue, drops that demand for
military aid.
386
00:20:33,360 –> 00:20:36,160
But they’re also like, and we’re
done negotiating.
387
00:20:36,280 –> 00:20:38,640
You don’t want to talk about
this anymore.
388
00:20:39,080 –> 00:20:42,280
We’ll get back with you after
the end of the election.
389
00:20:42,400 –> 00:20:47,040
And then, as if by magic, five
days before the inauguration,
390
00:20:47,200 –> 00:20:50,160
Iran is like, all right, we’ll
talk again.
391
00:20:50,320 –> 00:20:54,400
And then they just let the
hostages go 5 minutes after the
392
00:20:54,400 –> 00:20:57,720
inauguration happens.
So I feel like they were being
393
00:20:57,720 –> 00:21:00,760
pretty blatant about what
happened.
394
00:21:01,160 –> 00:21:03,080
What’s going on in the Carter
and administration?
395
00:21:03,080 –> 00:21:04,400
Are they just getting the cold
shoulder?
396
00:21:04,600 –> 00:21:09,720
They at first were making some
headway with Iran.
397
00:21:09,920 –> 00:21:15,320
But basically part of these
meetings involved going out to
398
00:21:15,320 –> 00:21:18,680
leaders in these different
countries that were either
399
00:21:18,680 –> 00:21:22,200
aligned with Iran or going to
leaders in Iran.
400
00:21:22,360 –> 00:21:24,920
And what they were basically
saying is, look, you’ll get a
401
00:21:24,920 –> 00:21:28,520
better deal from Reagan.
If you wait and release the
402
00:21:28,520 –> 00:21:32,320
hostages under Reagan, you’ll
get a better deal because they
403
00:21:32,320 –> 00:21:36,800
were going to have to release
those hostages at at some point,
404
00:21:36,960 –> 00:21:40,920
if for no other reason than they
needed their assets unfrozen.
405
00:21:41,160 –> 00:21:45,280
Reagan’s team knew that, or at
least Bill Casey knew it, So he
406
00:21:45,360 –> 00:21:48,480
sent people out to tell them
exactly that.
407
00:21:48,520 –> 00:21:51,840
If you wait for Reagan, you’ll
get a better deal.
408
00:21:52,200 –> 00:21:55,200
And they agreed to it.
And Reagan won, and they
409
00:21:55,200 –> 00:21:57,240
immediately released the
hostages.
410
00:21:57,880 –> 00:21:59,840
Nuts.
I’m just kind of surprised
411
00:21:59,840 –> 00:22:02,600
America didn’t seal Team Six.
That shit when they stopped
412
00:22:02,600 –> 00:22:05,520
negotiating.
Oh, I forgot that part.
413
00:22:05,640 –> 00:22:09,600
Carter did have a rescue
operation planned.
414
00:22:09,880 –> 00:22:12,040
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
I did read that in the notice
415
00:22:12,040 –> 00:22:15,120
and they moved them.
Yeah, well, it the implication
416
00:22:15,120 –> 00:22:19,480
seems to be that someone in the
Reagan administration knew
417
00:22:19,480 –> 00:22:22,960
about, and I think it’s Gary
Sick’s article that does say
418
00:22:23,200 –> 00:22:27,240
someone in either in the Carter
administration are familiar with
419
00:22:27,240 –> 00:22:30,640
the Carter administration tipped
off the Reagan administration
420
00:22:30,640 –> 00:22:34,240
about this plan to launch a
second rescue operation.
421
00:22:34,240 –> 00:22:36,960
And it seems like the
implication is the Reagan
422
00:22:36,960 –> 00:22:39,840
administration in turn told
Iran.
423
00:22:40,040 –> 00:22:43,280
And Iran just moved all the
hostages because if they were
424
00:22:43,280 –> 00:22:46,360
planning that, they were
planning it based on all those
425
00:22:46,360 –> 00:22:49,640
hostages being in one place.
So you just move them and it
426
00:22:49,640 –> 00:22:52,960
sets that plan back long enough
that they can’t do it before the
427
00:22:52,960 –> 00:22:54,880
election happens.
Shady.
428
00:22:55,080 –> 00:22:57,120
So shady.
Just kicking the can down the
429
00:22:57,120 –> 00:23:00,320
road kind of.
Yeah, allegedly this is all
430
00:23:00,320 –> 00:23:03,640
alleged.
In this and the hostages
431
00:23:03,640 –> 00:23:05,160
probably won’t even believe
that.
432
00:23:05,200 –> 00:23:07,200
Imagine your government save
you, Then you.
433
00:23:07,480 –> 00:23:10,480
It’s probably be hard to
convince you that they sabotage
434
00:23:10,520 –> 00:23:12,480
it for a few months.
Yeah, you’d just be so grateful
435
00:23:12,480 –> 00:23:13,880
to be out, right?
Yeah.
436
00:23:14,240 –> 00:23:16,280
Yeah, you almost wouldn’t want
to question it.
437
00:23:16,480 –> 00:23:19,600
Exactly.
And so, after all that happens,
438
00:23:20,280 –> 00:23:24,440
Reagan wins the election.
And this was a story Gary Sick
439
00:23:24,440 –> 00:23:27,920
claimed was verified by sources
from 8 different countries on 4
440
00:23:27,920 –> 00:23:30,400
continents.
The PBS show Frontline did an
441
00:23:30,400 –> 00:23:33,760
episode about it shortly after
his article was released.
442
00:23:33,960 –> 00:23:36,640
They interviewed Gary Sick and a
bunch of those sources.
443
00:23:36,920 –> 00:23:39,240
I cannot find that episode
anywhere.
444
00:23:39,240 –> 00:23:42,720
I didn’t look that hard, but
it’s not the kind that just pops
445
00:23:42,720 –> 00:23:45,360
up when you search it.
I mean some older TV shows and
446
00:23:45,360 –> 00:23:46,960
programs like that, you just
find them.
447
00:23:47,240 –> 00:23:51,280
You said PBS.
Yeah, I found a page on the
448
00:23:51,280 –> 00:23:55,600
Frontline website about the
episode and it has just the This
449
00:23:55,600 –> 00:24:00,080
episode is unavailable.
Probably got to donate like $500
450
00:24:00,080 –> 00:24:03,360
to one of them telephone.
Sesame Street tries to get this
451
00:24:03,360 –> 00:24:05,920
shit.
You got to get a number of tote
452
00:24:05,920 –> 00:24:08,520
bags before it’s on the table.
Yeah.
453
00:24:11,240 –> 00:24:14,800
My 8 year old broke ass wanted
to donate money so bad when I
454
00:24:14,800 –> 00:24:17,560
was a kid.
To those I wanted an Elmo cup or
455
00:24:17,560 –> 00:24:20,240
something.
This was way back in the day.
456
00:24:20,360 –> 00:24:24,280
I was super duper high and
watching a Grateful Dead concert
457
00:24:24,360 –> 00:24:26,560
on PBS.
That’s how high I was.
458
00:24:26,560 –> 00:24:28,480
I was watching a Grateful Dead
concert.
459
00:24:28,480 –> 00:24:30,200
Don’t like them at all as a
band.
460
00:24:30,480 –> 00:24:34,880
But I was so into this concert
for one second I was like, maybe
461
00:24:34,880 –> 00:24:38,480
I will pay $150.00 for a copy of
this on CV.
462
00:24:38,960 –> 00:24:40,880
And then I was like, wait wait
wait wait.
463
00:24:41,120 –> 00:24:42,800
I bet I can just buy this
somewhere, right?
464
00:24:43,000 –> 00:24:45,800
I bet I can just get this in
stores for like 2999.
465
00:24:46,120 –> 00:24:49,480
You sure can.
It’s just a regular ass Grateful
466
00:24:49,480 –> 00:24:53,560
Dead CD that you can buy and
they were like $150.00 will get
467
00:24:53,560 –> 00:24:56,160
you this on CD.
Those motherfuckers.
468
00:24:56,400 –> 00:24:59,360
The markup on Jam Band Rock is
unbelievable.
469
00:25:00,520 –> 00:25:02,760
Yeah.
It’s like French fries or sodas.
470
00:25:03,000 –> 00:25:06,720
The profit margin is huge.
So that 1991 article?
471
00:25:06,760 –> 00:25:09,920
It led to a congressional
investigation that never really
472
00:25:09,920 –> 00:25:13,520
amounted to anything.
And it seems like a lot of it
473
00:25:13,520 –> 00:25:18,120
hinged on them not being able to
prove William Casey was ever in
474
00:25:18,120 –> 00:25:21,040
Madrid for those first two
meetings.
475
00:25:21,600 –> 00:25:26,720
But in 2011, investigative
journalist Robert Perry found a
476
00:25:26,720 –> 00:25:32,240
memo in the George HW Bush
Presidential Library archives
477
00:25:32,440 –> 00:25:35,560
that confirmed Casey was in
Madrid.
478
00:25:35,760 –> 00:25:41,640
It was a 91 memo from Deputy
White House Counsel Paul Beach.
479
00:25:41,800 –> 00:25:45,080
He was responding to a subpoena
from the committee that
480
00:25:45,120 –> 00:25:48,320
eventually investigated this,
told them he had just met with a
481
00:25:48,320 –> 00:25:51,720
counterpart at the State
Department named Ed Williamson.
482
00:25:51,920 –> 00:25:54,000
And this is a quote in this
regard.
483
00:25:54,200 –> 00:25:58,520
Ed mentioned only a cable from
the Madrid embassy indicating
484
00:25:58,520 –> 00:26:02,360
that Bill Casey was in town for
purposes unknown.
485
00:26:02,560 –> 00:26:04,120
End Quote.
Whoops.
486
00:26:04,320 –> 00:26:08,480
And even then, this is still
just considered like, oh, did it
487
00:26:08,480 –> 00:26:10,760
happen?
He was just on holiday.
488
00:26:11,640 –> 00:26:14,080
There’s nothing to see here.
When you do this shit, it’s not
489
00:26:14,080 –> 00:26:17,240
that nobody can ever find out,
it’s that they can’t find out
490
00:26:17,240 –> 00:26:20,720
until nobody gives a shit.
Once nobody gives a shit, then
491
00:26:20,720 –> 00:26:22,200
it’s like, yeah, hey, look, we
did it.
492
00:26:22,520 –> 00:26:25,240
This is how suck our Dicks.
We’re probably doing something
493
00:26:25,240 –> 00:26:27,520
now.
Yeah, that’s one of the tenets
494
00:26:27,520 –> 00:26:30,720
of the Freedom of Information
Act request is, yeah, we’ll tell
495
00:26:30,720 –> 00:26:33,480
you anything after like 25
years.
496
00:26:34,160 –> 00:26:39,000
Yeah, that was the old US.
Yeah, you’re gonna have to chill
497
00:26:39,000 –> 00:26:42,000
out first.
Don’t be so emotional, then
498
00:26:42,000 –> 00:26:45,280
we’ll send it to you.
And also we could black out 70%
499
00:26:45,280 –> 00:26:47,960
of it if we want.
Oh yeah, that too.
500
00:26:48,200 –> 00:26:52,320
Yeah, So many files have been
released that just leave more
501
00:26:52,320 –> 00:26:55,960
questions than they answer.
And the one I’ll always go back
502
00:26:55,960 –> 00:26:59,440
to is Elvis.
Why are 100 pages of his FBI
503
00:26:59,440 –> 00:27:04,080
file still concealed?
For national security reasons.
504
00:27:04,360 –> 00:27:05,840
We know everything about this
man.
505
00:27:06,000 –> 00:27:08,200
We died in the shitter, for
God’s sakes, you know.
506
00:27:08,480 –> 00:27:11,000
Shit, man.
I was reading Muhammad Ali’s
507
00:27:11,000 –> 00:27:13,760
Freedom of Information.
I think I read 400 pages and I
508
00:27:13,760 –> 00:27:16,200
was on volume 2 of 15 or
something.
509
00:27:16,200 –> 00:27:18,440
Crazy.
They were on his ass about
510
00:27:18,680 –> 00:27:21,160
everything.
Yeah, it’s one that was like,
511
00:27:21,320 –> 00:27:26,160
yeah, Muhammad Ali travelled to
Dubai, some country and he got a
512
00:27:26,160 –> 00:27:29,400
gift and we’re going to arrest
him because he didn’t claim the
513
00:27:29,400 –> 00:27:31,240
gift on customs or something
like that.
514
00:27:31,480 –> 00:27:34,760
And I think they did arrest.
It was crazy as shit.
515
00:27:35,200 –> 00:27:38,320
Like I always say, black folks,
we don’t trust the government so
516
00:27:38,400 –> 00:27:40,320
we more susceptible to believe
the conspiracies.
517
00:27:40,320 –> 00:27:43,600
But when you tell liberals shit
about this from the government
518
00:27:43,600 –> 00:27:45,400
and we’re like Oh no, that’s
right wing stuff.
519
00:27:45,400 –> 00:27:47,520
When you start talking about
conspiracies, do you not see
520
00:27:47,520 –> 00:27:50,320
what the hell is going on?
You think crack just magically
521
00:27:50,320 –> 00:27:52,960
showed up?
Do you think these houses, just
522
00:27:52,960 –> 00:27:56,200
literally 5 minutes just got
freed after inauguration?
523
00:27:56,200 –> 00:27:59,040
What are you talking about?
Yeah, this one seems pretty
524
00:27:59,040 –> 00:28:02,760
obvious to me.
All of Reagan’s stuff, it’s so
525
00:28:02,760 –> 00:28:07,280
well documented aside from the
invasion of Panama.
526
00:28:07,520 –> 00:28:11,520
If you ever dig into the
invasion of Panama, one of the
527
00:28:12,000 –> 00:28:17,040
most alarming aspects of it is
there’s some military guy, I
528
00:28:17,040 –> 00:28:20,600
don’t remember who, but some
high-ranking military guy who’s
529
00:28:20,600 –> 00:28:24,040
like, well, the reason things
went so well in Panama and why
530
00:28:24,040 –> 00:28:27,480
we were able to get in and get
out so quick is the media wasn’t
531
00:28:27,640 –> 00:28:31,320
allowed in, so we could just do
whatever we wanted and oh.
532
00:28:31,560 –> 00:28:33,440
Damn.
Think of the implications of
533
00:28:33,440 –> 00:28:35,040
what he’s saying.
Right.
534
00:28:35,480 –> 00:28:38,800
If there was no media, then I
would run amok over the entire
535
00:28:38,800 –> 00:28:41,200
world.
Yeah, yeah, No media.
536
00:28:41,200 –> 00:28:43,920
So we could just do whatever we
wanted.
537
00:28:44,000 –> 00:28:47,680
And that war was over in days, I
think two or three days.
538
00:28:47,960 –> 00:28:50,520
And there were a couple.
I think Grenada, we did the same
539
00:28:50,520 –> 00:28:54,280
thing under Reagan.
I’m surprised we stopped with
540
00:28:54,360 –> 00:28:58,840
the first Gulf War.
We put a lot of restrictions on
541
00:28:58,840 –> 00:29:02,360
the media that weren’t in place
during even the Vietnam War.
542
00:29:02,520 –> 00:29:06,320
But yeah, during those little
minor Latin American invasions,
543
00:29:06,520 –> 00:29:10,040
I mean, minor by our standards,
probably meant a lot to those
544
00:29:10,040 –> 00:29:11,560
countries.
We don’t know.
545
00:29:11,560 –> 00:29:14,320
We don’t know what happened.
There are no pictures from the
546
00:29:14,320 –> 00:29:16,760
invasion of Panama.
I believe it’s one of one of
547
00:29:16,760 –> 00:29:18,400
them.
There’s no pictures.
548
00:29:18,640 –> 00:29:21,880
Some of these lasted for such a
short time I’ve never even heard
549
00:29:21,880 –> 00:29:23,320
the Panama.
The only thing I know about the
550
00:29:23,320 –> 00:29:27,000
Gulf War is the badass Bart
Simpson T-shirts in there.
551
00:29:27,120 –> 00:29:30,600
And that’s about the only.
Yeah, the Van Halen song Panama
552
00:29:30,600 –> 00:29:33,520
lasted longer than our invasion
of Panama.
553
00:29:34,040 –> 00:29:37,960
Fucking 3 minutes.
So along with Robert Perry
554
00:29:37,960 –> 00:29:42,680
finding that memo in 2023 for a
reason we’ll get to in a second.
555
00:29:42,720 –> 00:29:46,480
A bunch of people started
writing about this again and it
556
00:29:46,480 –> 00:29:50,600
was almost sort of a victory lap
where people were like confirmed
557
00:29:50,760 –> 00:29:53,880
this is confirmed the October
surprise happened.
558
00:29:54,080 –> 00:29:57,960
One of the first articles that
came out in March 2023 was kind
559
00:29:57,960 –> 00:30:01,600
of a follow up article from Gary
Sick written with three other
560
00:30:01,600 –> 00:30:04,840
investigative journalists who
had all worked on this before.
561
00:30:04,960 –> 00:30:09,360
And they they in part because of
the Robert Perry memo, but also
562
00:30:09,360 –> 00:30:11,480
because of another recent
development.
563
00:30:11,640 –> 00:30:16,360
We’re kind of like it’s a closed
case and here’s why we’ll link
564
00:30:16,360 –> 00:30:19,160
to the article.
They run through a lot of
565
00:30:19,160 –> 00:30:23,040
different reasons why they think
this is confirmed history.
566
00:30:23,160 –> 00:30:28,320
On top of that, The Intercept
also in March 2023 published an
567
00:30:28,320 –> 00:30:32,720
article detailing all of the
various people and groups that
568
00:30:32,720 –> 00:30:35,440
have confirmed the October
Surprise happened.
569
00:30:35,680 –> 00:30:39,640
Some of the names on that list
former Iranian President Abul
570
00:30:39,640 –> 00:30:43,760
Hassan Bani Sadir, former
Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak
571
00:30:43,760 –> 00:30:47,680
Shamir, former Palestinian
Liberation Organization head
572
00:30:47,680 –> 00:30:50,600
Yasser Arafat.
So that’s a very diverse line up
573
00:30:50,600 –> 00:30:53,840
there.
Former French intelligence head
574
00:30:53,840 –> 00:30:57,160
Alexander de Marinchit.
The Russian government, which
575
00:30:57,240 –> 00:30:58,520
don’t even put that one on the
list.
576
00:30:58,520 –> 00:30:59,800
People aren’t going to take it
seriously.
577
00:31:00,040 –> 00:31:05,720
The Rizza, The Jizza, Inspector
Deck, Raekwon, The Chef, You,
578
00:31:05,720 –> 00:31:09,560
God In Those Face, Killer and
the Method Man.
579
00:31:09,880 –> 00:31:11,760
Russia probably hated that shit
to do with it.
580
00:31:11,760 –> 00:31:13,400
They just wanted to jump in with
it.
581
00:31:13,560 –> 00:31:16,520
Yeah, we seen that shit.
Yeah, Russia’s just a hate and
582
00:31:16,520 –> 00:31:21,440
honest in general, so who knows?
They’re like what y’all need is
583
00:31:21,480 –> 00:31:25,160
to cosign.
And also the the George HW Bush
584
00:31:25,160 –> 00:31:28,840
White House makes the list
because of that memo that went
585
00:31:28,840 –> 00:31:31,800
out in 1991 while Bush was in
office.
586
00:31:31,960 –> 00:31:36,400
But the reason they all started
coming forward to take this sort
587
00:31:36,400 –> 00:31:40,880
of victory lap in March 2023 is
because the man who did it came
588
00:31:40,880 –> 00:31:44,280
forward once Jimmy Carter
entered Hospice care.
589
00:31:44,400 –> 00:31:48,120
This guy named Ben Barnes, who
was at one point a very
590
00:31:48,120 –> 00:31:53,760
influential Texas politician.
He was a protege of former Texas
591
00:31:53,760 –> 00:31:57,480
Governor John Connolly, who I
don’t know if he’s been involved
592
00:31:57,480 –> 00:31:59,160
in any other conspiracy
theories.
593
00:31:59,160 –> 00:32:00,720
Maybe people should look into
it.
594
00:32:00,920 –> 00:32:04,400
JFK he was in the JFK car.
According to Ben Barnes, John
595
00:32:04,400 –> 00:32:08,080
Connolly was like, look, going
on this trip and what I need you
596
00:32:08,080 –> 00:32:12,640
to do is go to these different
world leaders and tell them that
597
00:32:12,680 –> 00:32:16,760
if Iran waits for Reagan to be
in office, they’ll get a better
598
00:32:16,760 –> 00:32:19,400
deal.
Ben Barnes claims he is the
599
00:32:19,400 –> 00:32:22,520
person who was told to deliver
that message.
600
00:32:23,360 –> 00:32:26,080
He said he came forward because
Jimmy Carter was dying and he
601
00:32:26,080 –> 00:32:30,440
felt like Jimmy Carter got kind
of a raw deal in that way, which
602
00:32:30,600 –> 00:32:33,760
true.
And he said at the time he
603
00:32:33,760 –> 00:32:37,040
didn’t quite know what he was
doing and I have no idea how
604
00:32:37,200 –> 00:32:39,600
that would be the case.
How would you not know what the
605
00:32:39,600 –> 00:32:42,720
implications behind delivering a
message like that?
606
00:32:43,480 –> 00:32:45,800
I think he’s just trying to make
himself feel better.
607
00:32:46,120 –> 00:32:49,760
I imagine these guys have to do
a lot of mental gymnastics with
608
00:32:49,760 –> 00:32:52,440
this job to just go home and
sleep at night.
609
00:32:52,440 –> 00:32:55,040
Yeah, you got to come up with
some to tell yourself.
610
00:32:55,040 –> 00:33:00,240
Yeah, And it’s weird how this
has transformed over the years
611
00:33:00,320 –> 00:33:05,760
from just a story in the
newspapers that legitimate
612
00:33:05,760 –> 00:33:09,840
outlets were reporting on.
Well, link to the first Gary
613
00:33:09,840 –> 00:33:15,080
Sick article, but the link is
actually kind of a database of
614
00:33:15,080 –> 00:33:19,000
all of the press reporting on
the October Surprise, and it’s
615
00:33:19,000 –> 00:33:22,080
really, really long.
And it’s all the mainstream
616
00:33:22,080 –> 00:33:24,720
outlets, and they’re just like,
hey, what the fuck?
617
00:33:24,720 –> 00:33:27,280
What did Reagan know?
Did this happen?
618
00:33:27,440 –> 00:33:31,320
And if this happened now, all of
those people would be called
619
00:33:31,320 –> 00:33:35,080
conspiracy theorists.
This is kind of reset to the
620
00:33:35,080 –> 00:33:38,960
point where it’s back to just
being a conspiracy theory.
621
00:33:39,080 –> 00:33:40,960
But there’s no way it didn’t
happen.
622
00:33:41,080 –> 00:33:44,240
It obviously happened, and I
don’t know, I just think it’s
623
00:33:44,240 –> 00:33:48,400
fascinating how the relationship
with the word conspiracy theory
624
00:33:48,400 –> 00:33:52,960
has developed since CIA guy was
our President George Bush.
625
00:33:53,280 –> 00:33:56,440
I think it was Colin Cowherd who
was actually talking about that
626
00:33:56,440 –> 00:33:58,720
the other day.
Like how it kind of flipped
627
00:33:58,720 –> 00:34:03,480
sides between conspiracies and
how people look at censorship.
628
00:34:03,880 –> 00:34:06,200
He was saying something like
back in the 80s, the people that
629
00:34:06,200 –> 00:34:09,080
complained about censorship
would be the liberals.
630
00:34:09,080 –> 00:34:12,360
I forgot what example he used.
But now he’s like, now it’s the
631
00:34:12,360 –> 00:34:14,800
right that wants to ban books
and stuff.
632
00:34:14,800 –> 00:34:17,239
I’m messing up his metaphor, but
like you said, now it’s the
633
00:34:17,239 –> 00:34:19,880
right that wants to ban books
and tell you what books your
634
00:34:19,880 –> 00:34:22,840
kids can’t read.
But 20 years ago they were the
635
00:34:22,840 –> 00:34:25,239
ones complaining about
censorship, but now they’re
636
00:34:25,239 –> 00:34:28,239
behind it and they don’t want
certain books, or they don’t
637
00:34:28,239 –> 00:34:30,360
want kids to learn this and
learn that.
638
00:34:30,520 –> 00:34:33,360
Seems like America didn’t really
learn its lessons from the last
639
00:34:33,360 –> 00:34:36,040
40 years.
Yeah, it’s one of the most
640
00:34:36,040 –> 00:34:41,639
disappointing things about
conspiracy theorists because so
641
00:34:41,639 –> 00:34:47,400
much of that early 90s New World
Order shit was like, listen,
642
00:34:47,520 –> 00:34:50,840
fuck this tyrannical government.
They are coming to take your
643
00:34:50,840 –> 00:34:52,880
guns.
They want to kill us.
644
00:34:52,880 –> 00:34:55,800
You can’t trust them.
And it turns out all along those
645
00:34:55,800 –> 00:34:59,440
motherfuckers were just looking
for the right boot to lick and
646
00:34:59,440 –> 00:35:02,080
they found Trump.
And they’re like, never mind
647
00:35:02,080 –> 00:35:04,920
that American government’s good.
And it’s like, are you fucking
648
00:35:04,920 –> 00:35:09,120
out of your mind?
What makes you think any version
649
00:35:09,120 –> 00:35:11,280
of that government has your best
interest in mind?
650
00:35:11,360 –> 00:35:14,600
Just because it’s Trump?
Based on what fucking history?
651
00:35:14,720 –> 00:35:17,920
It’s disappointing because
there’s no resistance left.
652
00:35:18,120 –> 00:35:21,040
And then when you have a
perfectly legitimate claim to
653
00:35:21,200 –> 00:35:24,920
scandals such as we have here,
you just thought of in the same
654
00:35:24,920 –> 00:35:28,880
breath as the Earth is flat and
Amanda Bynes is a clone people,
655
00:35:28,880 –> 00:35:31,400
you know.
So the well is sort of poisoned
656
00:35:31,400 –> 00:35:33,840
around.
I did go to college, but one of
657
00:35:33,840 –> 00:35:37,560
those rhetorical fallacy.
Right.
658
00:35:37,560 –> 00:35:41,240
And also, it’s such a boring
conspiracy that the crazier
659
00:35:41,240 –> 00:35:43,240
conspiracies are the ones least
likely to be true.
660
00:35:43,240 –> 00:35:46,800
This isn’t that crazy of a
conspiracy that they just wanted
661
00:35:46,800 –> 00:35:49,320
a different president to be in
office before freeing them.
662
00:35:49,640 –> 00:35:52,520
Yeah, it’s like your JFK one.
That’s the most believable one
663
00:35:52,520 –> 00:35:54,080
to me, because it’s the least
sexy.
664
00:35:54,600 –> 00:35:56,720
When I heard that, when I was
like, that actually sounds like
665
00:35:56,720 –> 00:35:58,200
what happened.
Your conspiracy.
666
00:35:58,200 –> 00:35:59,680
That it.
Secret Service guy.
667
00:36:00,360 –> 00:36:02,640
Yeah, he actually tripped and
shot him by mistake.
668
00:36:02,840 –> 00:36:05,360
It’s so boring that even
conspiracy theorists don’t want
669
00:36:05,360 –> 00:36:07,920
to believe it, because they
always got some Hollywood shit
670
00:36:07,920 –> 00:36:11,960
and 50 people keeping a secret
and replacement bodies and stuff
671
00:36:11,960 –> 00:36:13,760
and.
It’s the best one because
672
00:36:13,760 –> 00:36:15,920
everyone wins.
The people who think the
673
00:36:15,920 –> 00:36:19,000
government covered it up when
the people who think Lee Harvey
674
00:36:19,000 –> 00:36:21,160
Oswald was the lone assassin
win.
675
00:36:21,440 –> 00:36:25,160
Everyone’s right according to
that theory, and I I hate that
676
00:36:25,160 –> 00:36:28,800
it didn’t catch on more.
And yet there’s a lot of things.
677
00:36:28,800 –> 00:36:34,480
The sensational story is usually
not the one you want to chase in
678
00:36:34,480 –> 00:36:37,920
any situation when you’re
talking conspiracy theories like
679
00:36:38,080 –> 00:36:40,920
with 911.
The popular one is Bush did
680
00:36:40,920 –> 00:36:44,680
9/11, and it’s like, Are you
sure it’s not Saudi Arabia?
681
00:36:44,880 –> 00:36:47,720
There’s your conspiracy theory.
There’s the one you want to
682
00:36:47,720 –> 00:36:50,640
chase.
But if you’re a government that
683
00:36:50,640 –> 00:36:53,720
needs to control the narrative
on things like that, you’re
684
00:36:53,720 –> 00:36:56,640
going to be more than happy to
let people chase the wild
685
00:36:56,640 –> 00:36:59,480
bullshit one that no one can
prove.
686
00:36:59,840 –> 00:37:02,880
I think another good example is
Q Anon.
687
00:37:03,120 –> 00:37:07,840
That is such a fantastical
conspiracy theory that it
688
00:37:07,840 –> 00:37:11,200
eventually boils down to
Democrats harvesting
689
00:37:11,240 –> 00:37:14,720
adrenochrome and drinking kids
blood.
690
00:37:14,880 –> 00:37:18,640
And it’s so wild that people
hear it and they’re immediately
691
00:37:18,640 –> 00:37:20,640
like, all right, yeah, well,
that’s bullshit.
692
00:37:20,760 –> 00:37:26,560
But meanwhile, sex trafficking
and military intelligence.
693
00:37:26,920 –> 00:37:32,480
I don’t think that is a crazy
question to ask, especially in
694
00:37:32,480 –> 00:37:37,880
light of Jeffrey Epstein.
Who was he working on behalf of
695
00:37:38,120 –> 00:37:40,280
because he wasn’t doing that for
himself.
696
00:37:40,600 –> 00:37:43,280
Doesn’t seem like something that
you could do freelance even if
697
00:37:43,280 –> 00:37:46,840
you were extravagantly wealthy.
Yeah, someone would have just
698
00:37:46,840 –> 00:37:48,800
murdered Jeffrey.
You would have need to be
699
00:37:48,800 –> 00:37:51,160
sponsored by a larger entity,
yeah.
700
00:37:51,480 –> 00:37:56,400
There’s a guy named Michael
Aquino who we really need to do
701
00:37:56,480 –> 00:38:01,400
an episode about because we did
an episode of Pretty Scary about
702
00:38:01,480 –> 00:38:05,320
this disappearance that happened
in Iowa in the 80s, a kid named
703
00:38:05,320 –> 00:38:10,240
Johnny, Gosh, he was a newspaper
delivery boy and he just got
704
00:38:10,240 –> 00:38:14,680
abducted off the street.
And his mom, one is convinced
705
00:38:14,680 –> 00:38:19,760
he’s still alive and claims he
came to her house one night and
706
00:38:19,760 –> 00:38:23,400
explained to her what happened
and was like, it’s too dangerous
707
00:38:23,400 –> 00:38:25,280
for me to stay here.
I can’t stay here with you.
708
00:38:25,280 –> 00:38:28,640
You’ll be in danger.
She said he had a handler with
709
00:38:28,640 –> 00:38:34,800
him and what he claimed was that
he had been kidnapped and
710
00:38:34,880 –> 00:38:39,880
basically sold into this sex
trafficking ring that was used
711
00:38:39,880 –> 00:38:45,280
to blackmail powerful business
people and other people came
712
00:38:45,280 –> 00:38:47,840
forward and corroborated this
kids story.
713
00:38:48,040 –> 00:38:49,560
Is this the book?
Who took Johnny?
714
00:38:49,800 –> 00:38:51,640
I think it probably is, I’m
sure.
715
00:38:52,120 –> 00:38:56,400
And they named this guy, I think
they called him the Colonel.
716
00:38:56,840 –> 00:39:00,760
And it’s really seems like
they’re talking about Michael
717
00:39:00,760 –> 00:39:04,040
Aquino.
And Michael Aquino, for one,
718
00:39:04,040 –> 00:39:07,960
he’s the founder of the Church
of Satan, but he’s also military
719
00:39:07,960 –> 00:39:11,240
intelligence.
He was implicated in a scandal
720
00:39:11,240 –> 00:39:14,720
that involved in attempted
kidnapping of a baby from a
721
00:39:14,720 –> 00:39:19,760
military daycare center, and he
eventually was found to be
722
00:39:19,760 –> 00:39:22,480
involved in a bunch of weird
pedophile shit.
723
00:39:22,800 –> 00:39:25,800
God, it’s hard to find a better
resume than that, right?
724
00:39:26,000 –> 00:39:31,480
That’s that’s some shit.
Church of Satan pedophile every
725
00:39:31,720 –> 00:39:34,160
whatever you want, it’s there.
I think I know this guy who
726
00:39:34,160 –> 00:39:35,960
you’re talking about.
This is uprising amount of
727
00:39:35,960 –> 00:39:39,000
occult shit that went down to
the government, especially after
728
00:39:39,000 –> 00:39:42,440
Operation Paper Clip because the
Nazis were all in the magic and
729
00:39:42,800 –> 00:39:45,120
whatnot.
Yeah, Michael Aquino’s a really
730
00:39:45,120 –> 00:39:49,440
infamous figure who probably
deserves an episode because.
731
00:39:49,720 –> 00:39:50,800
But yeah, I’ve heard all about
this guy.
732
00:39:51,080 –> 00:39:53,600
Yeah, those are the questions
you should be asking when it
733
00:39:53,600 –> 00:39:56,920
comes to the government and
child sex trafficking.
734
00:39:57,200 –> 00:39:59,760
It shouldn’t be our Democrats
drinking blood.
735
00:39:59,920 –> 00:40:03,800
It should be.
Is military intelligence using
736
00:40:04,000 –> 00:40:08,680
sex trafficking for blackmail
means and to get leverage on
737
00:40:08,680 –> 00:40:11,440
people?
And if so, the obvious next
738
00:40:11,440 –> 00:40:14,560
question is so we’re doing
government sanctioned sex
739
00:40:14,560 –> 00:40:17,320
trafficking?
Then, and that’s also a pretty
740
00:40:17,320 –> 00:40:19,200
big scandal.
It doesn’t have to be
741
00:40:19,200 –> 00:40:21,760
adrenochrome and drinking blood.
That’s good enough.
742
00:40:22,120 –> 00:40:25,960
I feel like that will get some
elected officials ousted also.
743
00:40:26,160 –> 00:40:30,920
Yeah, a secret satanic pedophile
sex cult is juicy enough.
744
00:40:31,040 –> 00:40:33,160
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
745
00:40:33,200 –> 00:40:35,320
Why does there have to be pizza
involved?
746
00:40:35,320 –> 00:40:37,920
Leave pizza out of this?
Damn.
747
00:40:38,280 –> 00:40:41,680
Also, gay frogs and stuff.
People like Alex Jones that
748
00:40:41,680 –> 00:40:44,520
actually dropping real facts
don’t live that long.
749
00:40:44,880 –> 00:40:47,000
Government has proved they’re
willing to kill people.
750
00:40:47,040 –> 00:40:49,800
That’s what happened to the
Black Panthers and the whole
751
00:40:49,800 –> 00:40:51,680
civil rights movement of the
60s.
752
00:40:51,840 –> 00:40:54,880
The people that were actually
onto something dead or got
753
00:40:54,880 –> 00:40:58,280
strung out or something, Yeah.
Yeah, King Kennedy.
754
00:40:58,440 –> 00:41:01,080
Kennedy X.
That guy Michael Aquino.
755
00:41:01,120 –> 00:41:04,600
The thing I wrote about him is
he did a whole satanic ritual in
756
00:41:04,600 –> 00:41:08,240
the basement of a Nazi castle as
a matter of official U.S.
757
00:41:08,240 –> 00:41:09,440
government business.
Somehow.
758
00:41:09,720 –> 00:41:13,440
Yeah, and we did that episode a
while back about the Finders.
759
00:41:13,640 –> 00:41:16,200
Finders are fucking creepy.
Yeah, if you don’t think it’s
760
00:41:16,200 –> 00:41:18,880
weird, you are the government,
probably, yeah.
761
00:41:19,120 –> 00:41:23,240
Because if you really dig into
it, there’s all these agencies
762
00:41:23,320 –> 00:41:28,480
that referred the finders to
authorities as child sex
763
00:41:28,480 –> 00:41:31,440
traffickers and child
pornographers, and it was
764
00:41:31,440 –> 00:41:35,680
blatant, it was obvious.
And at every level, they agreed
765
00:41:35,880 –> 00:41:38,520
until both times it got kicked
up to the CIA.
766
00:41:38,920 –> 00:41:43,120
And the CIA was like, Nope, that
case is closed, we’re not
767
00:41:43,120 –> 00:41:46,080
talking about that anymore.
So what about that?
768
00:41:46,280 –> 00:41:50,000
What about that instead of
drinking blood in adrenochrome
769
00:41:50,160 –> 00:41:52,240
the loose?
Ends are so good and there’s so
770
00:41:52,240 –> 00:41:56,080
many of them.
And I think that is a really
771
00:41:56,080 –> 00:42:00,600
effective strategy the American
government has employed is,
772
00:42:00,720 –> 00:42:03,600
well, the best way to get ahead
of shit like this is just put a
773
00:42:03,600 –> 00:42:08,160
crazier story out there and let
that fucking community run with
774
00:42:08,160 –> 00:42:09,960
it.
Yeah, you don’t have to defend
775
00:42:09,960 –> 00:42:12,120
yourself.
That’s the phrase I was looking
776
00:42:12,120 –> 00:42:13,400
for.
It’s not poisoning the well.
777
00:42:13,400 –> 00:42:16,840
It’s a turd in the punch bowl
where they they get some guy to
778
00:42:16,840 –> 00:42:19,280
act like a fucking kook so that
we all look stupid.
779
00:42:19,960 –> 00:42:24,240
Is that a real Turner?
Yeah, I read the book Jon Ronson
780
00:42:24,240 –> 00:42:26,600
wrote, called them Adventures
with Extremists.
781
00:42:26,600 –> 00:42:29,120
So he’s referring to Alex Jones
back in the 90s.
782
00:42:29,120 –> 00:42:32,320
At the time they actually him
and Alex Jones got the Bohemian
783
00:42:32,320 –> 00:42:34,160
Grove together and they get in
in this book.
784
00:42:34,160 –> 00:42:36,320
It’s pretty interesting Jon
Ronson book.
785
00:42:36,320 –> 00:42:38,680
But yeah, probably that.
They described him as a turd in
786
00:42:38,720 –> 00:42:41,360
the thinking that it was the
government’s idea to just let
787
00:42:41,360 –> 00:42:44,120
this guy go, run his yap and
he’ll make questioning the
788
00:42:44,120 –> 00:42:46,880
government look stupid.
And he does more harm working
789
00:42:46,880 –> 00:42:49,440
than not working.
Yeah, I believe it.
790
00:42:49,600 –> 00:42:53,640
And a lot of prominent
conspiracy theorists when he
791
00:42:53,640 –> 00:42:58,280
first came on the scene at the
time said it, including Bill
792
00:42:58,280 –> 00:43:00,720
Cooper, the guy that wrote
Behold A Pale Horse.
793
00:43:00,920 –> 00:43:05,040
But there is some belief that
Alex Jones is exactly that.
794
00:43:05,040 –> 00:43:08,680
He was dropped into that scene
by the government for the
795
00:43:08,680 –> 00:43:12,120
benefit of the government,
because once a story goes
796
00:43:12,120 –> 00:43:16,160
through that fucking wacko, it’s
immediately discredited.
797
00:43:16,240 –> 00:43:19,680
And I’ve said it before, when
the Internet really became a
798
00:43:19,680 –> 00:43:23,400
thing we all had access to, the
government obviously had a
799
00:43:23,400 –> 00:43:26,400
choice to make because
information was going to spread.
800
00:43:26,480 –> 00:43:30,440
So do you crack down on it like
China does and expend all these
801
00:43:30,440 –> 00:43:34,880
resources and manpower and look
bad on the world stage?
802
00:43:35,000 –> 00:43:38,760
Or do you just let that
information slow, but at the
803
00:43:38,760 –> 00:43:42,680
same time you start spreading
this idea that anytime you
804
00:43:42,680 –> 00:43:45,280
question the government, you’re
a conspiracy theorist.
805
00:43:45,600 –> 00:43:48,880
And that’s kind of what’s
happened now, where people hit a
806
00:43:48,880 –> 00:43:52,040
wall when it comes to
questioning the official
807
00:43:52,120 –> 00:43:55,080
government version of events.
People are just like, that’s a
808
00:43:55,080 –> 00:43:57,640
conspiracy theory.
Sorry, I want to talk about it.
809
00:43:57,800 –> 00:43:59,360
It’s like the Kyrie Irving
effect.
810
00:43:59,360 –> 00:44:02,280
If Kyrie Irving could have
waited like 6 months, he could
811
00:44:02,280 –> 00:44:05,000
have not looked crazy and spoke
out about what’s going on in
812
00:44:05,000 –> 00:44:08,840
Israel, but instead he fucking
tweeting books and movies from
813
00:44:08,840 –> 00:44:10,680
Instagram.
If you just would have waited
814
00:44:10,680 –> 00:44:14,160
six months to a year and then
spoken about what’s going on.
815
00:44:14,280 –> 00:44:17,200
But now people like Kyrie, Ain’t
nobody trying to hear that shit.
816
00:44:17,200 –> 00:44:20,120
You were tweeting out crazy ass
documentaries that you didn’t
817
00:44:20,120 –> 00:44:23,480
even finish.
I’ve I’ve heard people say when
818
00:44:23,480 –> 00:44:26,400
both sides have a point, you’re
being played lately.
819
00:44:26,440 –> 00:44:29,280
I noticed the Democrats are all
end up respecting the
820
00:44:29,320 –> 00:44:31,720
institutions of our government
and if we don’t give them
821
00:44:31,720 –> 00:44:35,120
meaning and power, who will?
And Republicans are like these
822
00:44:35,120 –> 00:44:37,600
fucking institutions are stupid
anyways.
823
00:44:37,600 –> 00:44:39,440
Fuck the filibuster or whatever,
whatever.
824
00:44:39,600 –> 00:44:42,880
And it’s like, yeah, I kind of
see why people believe either of
825
00:44:42,880 –> 00:44:46,880
you, but it’s just a bunch of
shit to keep you from looking at
826
00:44:46,880 –> 00:44:48,760
what matters.
Yeah, yeah.
827
00:44:48,880 –> 00:44:51,320
It’s divide and conquer.
It works really well.
828
00:44:51,520 –> 00:44:53,800
So I think that’s our episode,
right?
829
00:44:53,880 –> 00:44:57,440
I think we’re all on board.
The October Surprise happened
830
00:44:57,440 –> 00:44:59,160
probably, right?
I think so.
831
00:44:59,400 –> 00:45:02,360
Yeah, not since Elvis lived have
I believed something more.
832
00:45:03,440 –> 00:45:06,320
I don’t know what the conspiracy
would have to be about Reagan
833
00:45:06,320 –> 00:45:09,360
for me to not believe it.
I was researching him for video.
834
00:45:09,360 –> 00:45:11,000
I just put out.
I don’t even know if we could
835
00:45:11,000 –> 00:45:14,280
ever have a worst president.
He fucking destroyed unions in
836
00:45:14,280 –> 00:45:15,760
the middle class in this
country.
837
00:45:15,920 –> 00:45:18,320
Yeah, it would have to be
something like, Reagan could
838
00:45:18,320 –> 00:45:22,280
dunk.
You could show me video and I’d
839
00:45:22,280 –> 00:45:25,120
be like, deep, fake.
Get the fuck out of here.
840
00:45:25,120 –> 00:45:28,320
Reagan couldn’t dunk.
But yeah, beyond that, No, you
841
00:45:28,320 –> 00:45:30,200
tell me a conspiracy theory
about Reagan.
842
00:45:30,200 –> 00:45:31,520
I’m in.
Fuck that guy.
843
00:45:31,720 –> 00:45:34,320
Oh, he was the worst.
And this is another reason why
844
00:45:34,680 –> 00:45:37,040
he was the worst.
So I think that’s our episode.
845
00:45:37,160 –> 00:45:40,240
We did it.
Connor John, thank you both for
846
00:45:40,240 –> 00:45:42,040
doing the pod.
I appreciate it.
847
00:45:42,120 –> 00:45:45,600
This feels like the opportune
time to plug some shit.
848
00:45:45,680 –> 00:45:49,000
Adam Todd brown.substack.com.
You should go there and read my
849
00:45:49,000 –> 00:45:50,520
writings.
What else do we got?
850
00:45:50,520 –> 00:45:51,680
Connor, What do you got to plug?
I.
851
00:45:51,920 –> 00:45:56,120
Watch my Stand Up Comedy special
live in Tucson on youtube.com.
852
00:45:56,280 –> 00:45:58,920
John.
Just look up my YouTube channel.
853
00:45:58,920 –> 00:46:00,480
I dropped the video a couple
weeks ago.
854
00:46:00,480 –> 00:46:05,920
It’s John Lewis JWNLOUYS.
I’m working on another one
855
00:46:05,920 –> 00:46:09,040
that’s kind of a conspiracy.
I’m thinking about this New York
856
00:46:09,040 –> 00:46:12,640
Times bestseller that I’m pretty
sure his biggest book is a piece
857
00:46:12,640 –> 00:46:14,840
of bullshit.
Oh, I like that.
858
00:46:15,000 –> 00:46:17,000
Nice.
And that’s it.
859
00:46:17,000 –> 00:46:18,760
Let’s get the fuck out of here,
Connor.
860
00:46:18,760 –> 00:46:20,240
Say goodbye.
Goodbye everybody.
861
00:46:20,560 –> 00:46:22,440
John, say goodbye.
All right, guys.
862
00:46:22,440 –> 00:46:24,720
See you guys next time with the
Deep State.
863
00:46:25,600 –> 00:46:32,960
Goodbye everybody.
We love you, people of Earth.
864
00:46:33,840 –> 00:46:47,320
Your planet has to be destroyed.
Your planet has to be destroyed.