Conspiracy! The Show 308: Getting to Know the Office of Naval Intelligence

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I.
Hey everybody, welcome to

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conspiracy the show.
I’m your host Adam Todd Brown

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joining me as Co host this week.
Oh, my favorite Co host of all.

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No Co host.
In fact, I’m going it alone this

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week for the first episode in
what I’m thinking is going to be

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kind of a massive undertaking.
I’ve been vowing for a long,

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long time that I was going to do
a series about getting to know

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the various intelligence
agencies of the United States.

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We got a bunch of them.
And you know what?

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For reasons I couldn’t possibly
explain, I’m lately way more in

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the mood to talk about
historical stuff as opposed to,

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say, modern politics.
So here we are with the first

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episode in that series about
intelligence agencies, starting

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with, as the title implies,
you’ve already seen it, the

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Office of Naval Intelligence.
Here’s a weird coincidence.

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I decided to start with the
Office of Naval Intelligence

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because they were the outfit I
was genuinely the most curious

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about, mostly because of all of
their trading state secrets for

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suckling pigs shenanigans during
the Fat Leonard scandal, which

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we talked about on a previous
episode.

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But as fortune would have it,
they also happen to be America’s

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first and oldest intelligence
agency, so they make for the

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absolute perfect place to start.
And the fact that they are the

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1st is surprising until you
think about it for like a minute

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and you’ll realize that at the
point in history when the Office

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of Naval Intelligence was
formed, we were still doing all

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our war stuff with boats first.
They were going to be first.

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Most of what I’m talking about
on this episode comes from 2

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books.
The 1st is called the Office of

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Naval Intelligence, the birth of
America’s first intelligence

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agency, 1865 to 1918.
The second is it’s called

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conflict of duty duty, the US
Navy’s intelligence dilemma 1919

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to 1945.
It seems like neither of them

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are in print currently, but you
can find them.

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I did.
And who am IA professional book

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Finder?
No, they were both written a

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long time ago by a Professor
Jeffrey Dorward.

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To give you an idea of how long
ago, I reached out to Professor

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Dorward, who is still part of
the faculty at Rutgers

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University, to see if he’d maybe
want to be on the pod, and he

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replied.
In all caps, mind you quote, I’m

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80 years old.
I don’t remember my Office of

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Naval Intelligence Research.
End Quote.

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Hey, fair enough.
And so these books weren’t

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written long enough ago that
Professor Dorward isn’t with us

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anymore, but they were written
long enough ago that I was three

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years old when the first of
those two books was published.

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1979.
It’s not just a Smashing

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Pumpkins song.
It was also a highly interesting

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point in history when it comes
to intelligence agencies.

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The United States was fresh off
of the Church Committee

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hearings, which were all about
reining in the American

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intelligence apparatus at least
a little bit, to the point that

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they weren’t doing Jonestown and
stockpile and shellfish toxin to

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assassinate the Kennedys with
anymore.

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It didn’t work.
Like, not at all.

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That’s a discussion for another
episode, but that moment in

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history is what inspired the
writing of these two books.

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Dorward mentions in the preface
of the first book that while the

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country was on the edge of their
seats listening to the

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shenanigans outfits like the FBI
and CIA had been up to over the

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past few decades, the Office of
Naval Intelligence barely came

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up at all, despite once again
being the country’s oldest and

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longest running intelligence
agency of them all.

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Now just a heads up, covering
the Office of Naval

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Intelligence, or Oni as they
will sometimes be called from

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here on out is going to take at
least 2 episodes, if for no

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other reason than me talking
alone for more than 45 minutes

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at a time is probably as
exhausting for you as it is for

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me.
So this first episode will cover

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the Office of Naval Intelligence
from the end of the American

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Civil War up through right
before the start of World War 2.

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And how in that relatively short
span of time, they go from being

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the outfit tasked with spying on
foreign warships to the outfit

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tasked with aggressively
violating Americans

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constitutional rights in the
name of sniffing out foreign

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agents.
And then the second episode will

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cover World War 2 through to
present day.

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Professor Dorwarts telling of
the history of Oni starts again

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in the years immediately after
the Civil War.

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The first one, not the one
that’s probably going to happen

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a few months from now.
The American Civil War heavily

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involved both sides employing
new and exciting naval

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techniques on the battle water,
I guess.

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But once the war ended, America
was left with a bunch of

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bitching warships that had
nowhere to go and nothing to do.

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Over the years, the country’s
naval fleet, ships and officers

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both kind of started to fall
into sort of a state of

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disrepair.
For a while there, the Navy kept

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themselves useful by undertaking
exploration missions in the name

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a science.
But somewhere along the way

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someone realized, hey, we could
be doing this for military

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purposes too.
That had a lot to do with

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military activity in Europe
experiencing a bit of an uptick

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around this time.
While the United States was

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content to use the ships they
had to do whatever bullshit

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science they needed to do, the
rest of the world was building

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newer and better warships so
they could do cool stuff like

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fight wars and take each other’s
land.

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In 1869, Nice, a Navy squadron
in Europe was commanded to

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obtain information, quote,
respecting improvements in

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foreign navies and Navy yards.
End Quote.

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Though it wasn’t an official
thing yet, these information

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gathering missions laid the
foundation for what would later

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become the Office of Naval
Intelligence.

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In the years leading up to that
formation, Navy intelligence

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efforts mostly involved checking
out other countries, naval

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fleets, writing reports,
sometimes whole entire books

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about it.
But for a long time, Naval

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intelligence wasn’t really an
official department of the Navy.

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It was just expected that if you
were in the Navy, you’d

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sometimes have to do
intelligence work.

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One of the conclusions reached
during these intelligence

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missions was that if it came
down to it, the United States

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Navy as it existed at that point
in history, was probably

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incapable of defending the
Monroe Doctrine, which demanded

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that there be no foreign
influence in Western Hemisphere

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governments.
And the reason we couldn’t

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defend that Monroe Doctrine is
because our Navy was still

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mostly rickety wooden ships at
this point, while the rest of

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the world was reinforcing their
boats with iron and steel.

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That started to become less of a
problem after the assassination

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of President James Garfield.
Chester A Arthur was second in

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command, and when he took
office, he made modernizing the

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Navy a top priority.
Here’s a quote.

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Cannot too strongly urge upon
you my conviction that every

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consideration of National
Safety, economy and honor

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imperatively demands a thorough
rehabilitation of our Navy.

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That was obviously Chester A
Arthur talking around this time.

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A precursor to the Office of
Naval Intelligence was formed in

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1882 and then very shortly
thereafter, the same year in

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fact.
So I don’t know what the point

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of the precursor even was.
The directive that ordered a for

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real Office of Naval
Intelligence to be created was

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issued.
And again, for a long time their

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main function?
Spy on the various naval fleets

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of the world.
Write articles about what you

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saw, just in case we had to get
off into some war shit with a

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foreign adversary.
So they were war bloggers

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essentially.
The article writing part of the

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job was hugely important,
though, because eventually it

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changed from just informational
stuff about British warships to

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essays meant to convince the
government and the public both

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that the US Navy needed to not
only be modernized, but also

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vastly expanded.
And there was good news for the

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Oni on that front.
When President Grover Cleveland

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took office in 1885, he was a
champion of naval modernization

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and expansion both.
And it’s around this time that

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the Office of Naval Intelligence
expands beyond spying on foreign

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boats and moves into helping to
draft war plans for the

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countries most likely to start
some shit.

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Japan, Germany, England, Russia,
the usual suspects.

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Now this was a very unique point
in history in that the rest of

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the world didn’t really view the
United States as a threat.

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We were fresh off a civil war.
Our Navy was ass compared to the

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older and more powerful nations
of the world.

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On top of that, we were willing
to spend lots of money overseas

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to shore up our naval fleet.
On account of all that, naval

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intelligence officers were able
to inspect entire shipyards in

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Europe and Asia and document
everything about our future

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enemies capabilities with no
stress at all, In addition to

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gathering data about other
countries naval fleets.

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When other countries started
doing war stuff, the Oni was

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usually on hand to just, you
know, watch and take notes.

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If there was unrest in Latin
America somewhere, we’d send a

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ship or two down to keep an eye
on things.

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You know how we do around this
time, which would be the 1890s.

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So right around the time your
mom was born, America was at a

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bit of a crossroads in that we
were still figuring out if we

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wanted to be an isolationist
nation that stays out of other

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countries affairs or if we would
rather expand and modernize our

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Navy and start getting super
duper involved in other nations

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affairs.
Feelings about that would kind

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of ebb and flow depending on
what president was in office at

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the time.
It was during the McKinley

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administration that the need for
a more imposing naval presence

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on the world stage started
winning a little more favor

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among the populace due to an
incident that happened on

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February 15th, 1898.
That’s the day the USS Maine,

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which had been sent to Cuba to
protect American interests after

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conflict erupted between them
and Spain, exploded and sank to

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the bottom of Havana harbor,
killing more than 260 sailors.

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We blamed Spain for that, and
the Office of Naval Intelligence

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responded by going into full on
war planning mode.

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Their reports about the might
and fierceness of the Spanish

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naval fleet went a long way
toward the United States finally

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spending real money to expand
our own naval fleet.

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Here’s a quote from one of those
reports.

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There is much confidence
expressed that if the squadrons

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meet, the Spaniards will win the
first few fights and that they

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will destroy our commerce and
devastate our coast.

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End Quote.
After hearing enough shit like

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that, President McKinley decided
we should maybe start taking a

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tougher stance against Spain.
Sure, it was later revealed that

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we were way overestimating
Spain’s war fighting abilities,

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but who, listening to this,
didn’t see that part coming.

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This all, of course, led to the
Spanish American War, which

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broke out on April 24th, 1898.
And it’s at that point that the

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Office of Naval Intelligence
expands from just being an

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outfit that gathered
intelligence about enemy boats

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and things of the like into a
for real dispatch, secret agents

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to Europe kind of thing.
That’s because we weren’t

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getting enough intelligence
about Spain just looking at

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their coastline through
binoculars or whatever it was we

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were doing up to that point.
We needed boots on the ground in

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Spain acting like they weren’t
there.

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As representatives of the United
States government, spies are

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what we call them. the US
already had a series of naval

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attaches all over the world.
Those are officers posted to

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various countries.
In case, you know, maybe someone

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has a question about what the
Navy is up to.

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Like an ambassador.
Sort of.

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They definitely aren’t there to
do any spying themselves, no

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Sir.
But during the Spanish American

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War, they did start dipping into
a, quote, Secret Service

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emergency fund, End Quote, to
hire informants and buy

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information about what the
Spaniards were planning.

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And it seems like that helped
because by December, that war

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was over.
And thanks to the treaty we

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signed with Spain, along with a
couple other military conquests,

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America was starting to become a
bit of an empire, not to brag.

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00:14:21,680 –> 00:14:25,120
So now there’s no question that
the Navy needed to expand

223
00:14:25,400 –> 00:14:27,760
because empires don’t just
protect themselves.

224
00:14:28,000 –> 00:14:31,000
On top of that, Japan and
Germany both were starting to

225
00:14:31,000 –> 00:14:34,960
seem like for real threats that
we were inevitably going to have

226
00:14:34,960 –> 00:14:37,640
to deal with in some way at some
point.

227
00:14:37,760 –> 00:14:40,760
And the Office of Naval
Intelligence was also kind of

228
00:14:40,760 –> 00:14:43,120
instrumental in building that
empire.

229
00:14:43,320 –> 00:14:48,160
Under the Taft administration
from 1910 to 1913, naval

230
00:14:48,160 –> 00:14:51,640
intelligence officers were used
as salespeople promoting

231
00:14:51,640 –> 00:14:54,560
American business interests
abroad.

232
00:14:54,720 –> 00:14:59,160
So really quick, we went from
shopping for war machines to

233
00:14:59,160 –> 00:15:02,240
trying to sell our war machines
in those same countries.

234
00:15:02,440 –> 00:15:06,160
But again, attitudes toward
naval intelligence and the need

235
00:15:06,160 –> 00:15:09,920
for expanding the Navy were
constantly changing depending on

236
00:15:09,920 –> 00:15:13,880
what president was in office.
When Woodrow Wilson took the

237
00:15:13,880 –> 00:15:17,640
reins, it seemed, at least at
first, that he was going to go

238
00:15:17,640 –> 00:15:21,560
in more of an isolationist
route, which would obviously not

239
00:15:21,560 –> 00:15:24,800
call for naval expansion.
This set off something called

240
00:15:24,800 –> 00:15:28,400
the Preparedness Movement.
That was a movement within the

241
00:15:28,400 –> 00:15:33,440
military that advocated for
constant war planning and

242
00:15:33,440 –> 00:15:35,960
bolstering our military and its
weaponry.

243
00:15:36,120 –> 00:15:40,080
So we were always ready to take
on any threat that might come

244
00:15:40,080 –> 00:15:41,800
our way.
And then on the other side of

245
00:15:41,800 –> 00:15:45,160
the preparedness movement were a
whole bunch of no good peace

246
00:15:45,160 –> 00:15:49,040
Knicks who thought we should
just stay out of things even as

247
00:15:49,040 –> 00:15:52,600
war was overtaking Europe.
But then the sinking of another

248
00:15:52,600 –> 00:15:57,520
boat, this time to Lusitania in
May 1915, prompted President

249
00:15:57,520 –> 00:16:02,200
Wilson to get on board with the
principles of the preparedness

250
00:16:02,200 –> 00:16:05,800
movement.
And finally, on April 7th, 1917,

251
00:16:06,120 –> 00:16:09,680
that stubborn son of a bitch
declared war against Germany.

252
00:16:09,840 –> 00:16:14,160
Just like that, the United
States was in the thick of World

253
00:16:14,160 –> 00:16:17,240
War One.
Now, obviously, you can’t

254
00:16:17,240 –> 00:16:21,920
successfully fight a foreign
adversary if said adversary has

255
00:16:21,920 –> 00:16:24,520
a bunch of sneaky operatives in
your country.

256
00:16:24,680 –> 00:16:28,120
To that end, during World War
One, the Office of Naval

257
00:16:28,120 –> 00:16:32,600
Intelligence became a domestic
surveillance organization.

258
00:16:32,720 –> 00:16:36,560
To pull that off, they not only
hired intelligence officers from

259
00:16:36,560 –> 00:16:40,400
within the Navy’s own ranks, but
also started outsourcing

260
00:16:40,400 –> 00:16:45,240
surveillance to volunteers who,
at least at first, could best be

261
00:16:45,240 –> 00:16:50,000
described as elites.
Wall Street bankers, prominent

262
00:16:50,000 –> 00:16:54,320
publishers, celebrities,
shipping magnets, you name it.

263
00:16:54,400 –> 00:16:59,400
If you were rich and willing,
the Oni had a spy job waiting

264
00:16:59,400 –> 00:17:01,680
for you.
This eventually expanded into

265
00:17:01,680 –> 00:17:05,359
pulling volunteers from less
privileged backgrounds as well.

266
00:17:05,480 –> 00:17:08,280
Here’s a quote from Professor
Dorwart’s first book.

267
00:17:08,599 –> 00:17:12,560
Oni operatives came from every
walk of life, from the quiet

268
00:17:12,560 –> 00:17:15,440
stenographer to the Super
patriot of the American

269
00:17:15,440 –> 00:17:18,520
Protective League.
These people, rather than the

270
00:17:18,520 –> 00:17:23,119
Harvard graduate in Society
celebrity, held Oni’s domestic

271
00:17:23,119 –> 00:17:26,720
intelligence operation together.
End Quote.

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00:17:26,839 –> 00:17:29,840
That sounds a lot like esteemed
former Governor of Minnesota

273
00:17:29,840 –> 00:17:33,160
Jesse the Body.
Ventura’s story about having a

274
00:17:33,160 –> 00:17:37,400
sit down meeting with CIA agents
after he was elected and how

275
00:17:37,400 –> 00:17:40,720
they all just look like your
regular ass neighbors and

276
00:17:40,720 –> 00:17:44,560
strangers you’d pass on the
street instead of whatever

277
00:17:44,560 –> 00:17:48,240
vision of CIA agents you might
have in your mind.

278
00:17:48,400 –> 00:17:52,800
These undercover agents searched
passengers on incoming ships,

279
00:17:53,280 –> 00:17:58,120
they opened mail, they censored
incoming and outgoing cables and

280
00:17:58,120 –> 00:18:03,240
messages, whatever it took to
sniff out enemies hiding amongst

281
00:18:03,240 –> 00:18:08,440
us, even if that meant lots and
lots of innocent Americans got

282
00:18:08,440 –> 00:18:10,920
their privacy invaded in the
process.

283
00:18:11,120 –> 00:18:13,360
It was war, man.
All bets are off.

284
00:18:13,720 –> 00:18:17,480
Rules fly out the window.
At one point it was claimed that

285
00:18:17,480 –> 00:18:22,520
this ragtag but also massive
team of spies were identifying

286
00:18:22,520 –> 00:18:27,400
15,000 potential subversives a
week.

287
00:18:27,800 –> 00:18:31,360
Oni was also put in charge of
ensuring the safety of the

288
00:18:31,360 –> 00:18:34,200
plants where our naval equipment
was made.

289
00:18:34,400 –> 00:18:39,040
And of course, that sometimes
meant busting up attempts at

290
00:18:39,120 –> 00:18:43,400
organizing and forming unions
and things of the like.

291
00:18:43,560 –> 00:18:46,600
That was considered subversive
activity to go figure.

292
00:18:46,760 –> 00:18:49,280
Case in point, we just mentioned
stenographers.

293
00:18:49,480 –> 00:18:52,480
There was an incident where a
stenographer started organizing

294
00:18:52,800 –> 00:18:56,480
to try and get equal pay for
women who are doing the exact

295
00:18:56,480 –> 00:19:00,200
same jobs as their male
counterparts but making much

296
00:19:00,200 –> 00:19:02,480
less money.
The Office of Naval Intelligence

297
00:19:02,480 –> 00:19:06,680
responded to this by launching
an investigation to that woman’s

298
00:19:06,680 –> 00:19:10,600
personal life, her sexual
preferences, her finances,

299
00:19:10,680 –> 00:19:13,480
whatever else they could get
their hands on, before

300
00:19:13,480 –> 00:19:17,840
ultimately just getting her
fired from the plant she worked

301
00:19:17,840 –> 00:19:21,080
at.
Also, despite the main adversary

302
00:19:21,080 –> 00:19:26,080
in the war being Germany, Oni
surveillance extended beyond

303
00:19:26,080 –> 00:19:30,040
possible German infiltrators
when they decided to start

304
00:19:30,040 –> 00:19:34,520
surveilling America’s Jewish
population for still unknown

305
00:19:34,560 –> 00:19:36,880
reasons.
And we’re talking people getting

306
00:19:36,880 –> 00:19:40,480
dishonorably discharged from the
Navy solely because they were

307
00:19:40,480 –> 00:19:44,120
born in a part of New York with
a mostly Jewish population.

308
00:19:44,440 –> 00:19:48,880
No other explanation given.
And naturally, given the period

309
00:19:48,880 –> 00:19:52,960
in history we’re talking, Oni
was on the hunt for communists

310
00:19:53,040 –> 00:19:57,640
and socialists on the regular.
In just a little over 20 years,

311
00:19:57,760 –> 00:20:02,560
the Office of Naval Intelligence
grew from mostly spying on other

312
00:20:02,560 –> 00:20:07,080
countries and their naval
capabilities to spying on

313
00:20:07,080 –> 00:20:11,400
Americans based on their race,
ethnicity or political leanings,

314
00:20:12,080 –> 00:20:14,760
along with justifying the
expansion of domestic

315
00:20:14,760 –> 00:20:17,720
surveillance.
The war also paved the way for

316
00:20:17,720 –> 00:20:22,400
Oni to set up a global espionage
network, placing agents in

317
00:20:22,400 –> 00:20:25,200
Europe, Latin America and the
Far East.

318
00:20:25,400 –> 00:20:28,760
And naturally, that eventually
turned into interfering in the

319
00:20:28,760 –> 00:20:32,240
politics of other nations.
If we thought someone who

320
00:20:32,240 –> 00:20:35,440
wouldn’t be beholden to our
interests was about to be

321
00:20:35,440 –> 00:20:37,240
elected.
So the Office of Naval

322
00:20:37,240 –> 00:20:41,720
Intelligence was the CIA before
we knew we needed ACIA.

323
00:20:41,920 –> 00:20:45,640
Basically, they even at one
point start clamoring for some

324
00:20:45,640 –> 00:20:50,440
sort of central agency that
could collect and organize all

325
00:20:50,440 –> 00:20:54,760
of the information that they and
other intelligence agencies were

326
00:20:54,760 –> 00:20:57,160
bringing in.
That is precisely what the CIA

327
00:20:57,240 –> 00:20:59,160
was meant to be when it was
founded.

328
00:20:59,320 –> 00:21:03,520
But of course, as soon as World
War 1 ended, the government

329
00:21:03,600 –> 00:21:08,120
immediately flipped the switch
to off and shut down domestic

330
00:21:08,120 –> 00:21:12,120
surveillance at once.
Just joking.

331
00:21:12,120 –> 00:21:14,360
They never do that for one
thing.

332
00:21:14,640 –> 00:21:18,160
Not sure how familiar everyone
is with the end of World War One

333
00:21:18,400 –> 00:21:21,400
and the Treaty of Versailles,
but things were still highly

334
00:21:21,400 –> 00:21:25,720
contentious on the world stage
after World War 1 ended,

335
00:21:26,000 –> 00:21:28,520
especially between the
participating countries.

336
00:21:28,720 –> 00:21:32,640
If anything, America needed more
spies than ever before.

337
00:21:32,840 –> 00:21:37,160
So in the years between the two
world wars, the Oni’s public

338
00:21:37,160 –> 00:21:40,680
mission was still to gather
intelligence about foreign naval

339
00:21:40,680 –> 00:21:42,640
fleets.
But they also had a secret

340
00:21:42,640 –> 00:21:46,120
second mission, which was to
perform surveillance within the

341
00:21:46,120 –> 00:21:50,080
United States to keep an eye out
for foreigners looking to start

342
00:21:50,080 –> 00:21:53,480
trouble once again.
That inevitably involves spying

343
00:21:53,480 –> 00:21:56,880
on a bunch of innocent Americans
in the process and sometimes

344
00:21:56,880 –> 00:22:00,000
doing things that fell outside
the boundaries of the

345
00:22:00,000 –> 00:22:02,680
Constitution.
Jeffrey Dorwart calls this the

346
00:22:02,680 –> 00:22:07,640
Navy’s conflict of duty and or
the intelligence dilemma.

347
00:22:07,760 –> 00:22:11,520
That’s when you have to do
something unconstitutional in

348
00:22:11,520 –> 00:22:13,440
the name of keeping the country
safe.

349
00:22:13,680 –> 00:22:17,680
Big Air quotes around that, even
though as a naval officer you

350
00:22:17,680 –> 00:22:21,000
took an oath to uphold the
Constitution and protect

351
00:22:21,000 –> 00:22:24,560
constitutional freedoms.
Quite the dilemma indeed.

352
00:22:24,720 –> 00:22:27,920
Office of Naval Intelligence
agents even broke into a guy’s

353
00:22:27,920 –> 00:22:32,520
office in 1930 on the request of
then President Herbert Hoover

354
00:22:32,600 –> 00:22:35,560
after he heard Democrats had
dirt on him that could end his

355
00:22:35,560 –> 00:22:39,160
career if it came out again.
They are basically the CIA

356
00:22:39,160 –> 00:22:42,200
before the CIA.
For all intents and purposes,

357
00:22:42,480 –> 00:22:46,120
the Office of Naval
Intelligence’s main job after

358
00:22:46,120 –> 00:22:49,320
World War One was crushing
dissent.

359
00:22:49,520 –> 00:22:53,440
They were always on the hunt for
communists and other foreign

360
00:22:53,440 –> 00:22:57,440
agitators, violating the
Constitution at every stop.

361
00:22:57,520 –> 00:23:00,840
Along the way, they delivered
constant reports about how

362
00:23:00,840 –> 00:23:06,120
communism had infiltrated every
aspect of American life, up to

363
00:23:06,120 –> 00:23:10,200
and including Pennsylvania coal
miners who were also targets for

364
00:23:10,200 –> 00:23:13,600
Oni surveillance.
For some reason, even before

365
00:23:13,600 –> 00:23:17,440
McCarthyism and the Second Red
Scare, the Office of Naval

366
00:23:17,440 –> 00:23:21,920
Intelligence was compiling
massive lists of supposed

367
00:23:21,920 –> 00:23:25,960
domestic enemies who were guilty
of things like writing a letter

368
00:23:25,960 –> 00:23:29,120
to the president suggesting that
the country didn’t need to

369
00:23:29,120 –> 00:23:31,880
expand the Navy.
That was enough to get historian

370
00:23:31,880 –> 00:23:35,520
Charles Beard branded as a,
quote, dangerous radical.

371
00:23:35,640 –> 00:23:37,560
End Quote.
In the eyes of Naval

372
00:23:37,560 –> 00:23:41,480
Intelligence, basically, if you
thought we had enough warships,

373
00:23:41,680 –> 00:23:44,920
you were a communist agitator.
If you were critical of the Navy

374
00:23:44,920 –> 00:23:48,160
in any way, you were a communist
agitator.

375
00:23:48,320 –> 00:23:51,200
Even if you just knew someone
who’d been labeled a communist,

376
00:23:51,920 –> 00:23:54,480
the Office of Naval Intelligence
was at least going to write your

377
00:23:54,480 –> 00:23:57,480
name down.
In one report they compiled a

378
00:23:57,480 –> 00:24:01,600
list of communist minded
intellectuals who they called,

379
00:24:01,600 –> 00:24:07,320
quote, fringe revolutionists too
lacking in intestinal fortitude

380
00:24:07,640 –> 00:24:11,440
to go all the way with
communism, but who stand by and

381
00:24:11,440 –> 00:24:15,240
urge the communists to do his
worst and provide him with

382
00:24:15,240 –> 00:24:21,000
protection, sympathy and defense
while he commits the overt act.

383
00:24:21,160 –> 00:24:25,240
They had not had the courage to
commit themselves.

384
00:24:25,640 –> 00:24:28,840
End Quote.
Basically, any form of protest,

385
00:24:29,320 –> 00:24:32,720
especially if it was about the
Navy itself, was considered

386
00:24:32,720 –> 00:24:36,840
subversive activity as opposed
to a thing the Constitution

387
00:24:36,840 –> 00:24:39,320
clearly says you’re allowed to
do.

388
00:24:39,480 –> 00:24:44,440
And unfortunately, all of this
focus on domestic surveillance

389
00:24:44,640 –> 00:24:48,440
distracted the Office of Naval
Intelligence a bit from their

390
00:24:48,440 –> 00:24:52,400
obligations to also spy on our
enemies overseas.

391
00:24:52,560 –> 00:24:56,840
Like when they assured the
powers that be that Japan had no

392
00:24:56,840 –> 00:25:01,240
actual intention of invading
China or causing any problems

393
00:25:01,240 –> 00:25:04,440
militarily really.
Or when they repeatedly assured

394
00:25:04,440 –> 00:25:08,280
leaders that Mussolini was only
providing stability and

395
00:25:08,280 –> 00:25:10,760
prosperity to the people of
Italy.

396
00:25:10,960 –> 00:25:15,320
Oh, and they also reported that
Adolf Hitler was a good-natured

397
00:25:15,320 –> 00:25:18,680
leader.
And that quote, the indications

398
00:25:19,040 –> 00:25:22,600
are or that Germany’s relative
strength will never be great

399
00:25:22,600 –> 00:25:27,040
enough to encourage her to
initiate hostilities without

400
00:25:27,040 –> 00:25:29,680
powerful allies.
End Quote.

401
00:25:29,760 –> 00:25:33,080
And whoops, that take didn’t age
well.

402
00:25:33,280 –> 00:25:36,840
In the eyes of the Office of
Naval Intelligence, America’s

403
00:25:36,840 –> 00:25:40,840
enemies weren’t the burgeoning
fascists who would eventually

404
00:25:40,840 –> 00:25:44,800
set off World War 2.
No, it was the internal enemy

405
00:25:44,880 –> 00:25:48,920
that we needed to worry about.
The Enemy Within if you will.

406
00:25:49,200 –> 00:25:50,840
Not sure if that sounds familiar
at all.

407
00:25:51,000 –> 00:25:54,360
You probably don’t need me to
tell you this, but that turned

408
00:25:54,360 –> 00:25:59,240
out to be a very bad decision
once World War 2 rolled around.

409
00:25:59,360 –> 00:26:03,600
But hey, that’s for next weeks
episode, which will conclude our

410
00:26:03,600 –> 00:26:06,880
deep dive into the Office of
Naval Intelligence.

411
00:26:07,080 –> 00:26:11,120
In between those two episodes
will be a subscriber only bonus

412
00:26:11,120 –> 00:26:15,040
episode coming out later this
week about a dice game called

413
00:26:15,040 –> 00:26:18,880
the Deadly Double and how ads
for it may be predicted.

414
00:26:18,880 –> 00:26:22,120
The attack on Pearl Harbor.
Don’t let Snopes tell you it was

415
00:26:22,120 –> 00:26:24,520
just a coincidence.
If you want to hear that one,

416
00:26:24,800 –> 00:26:28,400
just head over to patreon.com
slash on pops or you don’t

417
00:26:28,400 –> 00:26:32,880
pod.supercast.com and subscribe
for bonus episodes.

418
00:26:33,080 –> 00:26:35,520
And thanks.
Goodbye everybody, we love you.