Conspiracy! The Show 348: COINTELPRO Pt. 3: Leonard Peltier and the Pine Ridge Shootout

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I.
Hey everybody, welcome to

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Conspiracy the Show.
I’m your host, Adam Todd Brown,

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joining me as guest Co host this
week, Zach Johnston’s here.

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How’s it going, man?
It’s going pretty well man, as

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well as can be expected given
it’s 2025.

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Given that it’s 2025, and given
the topic we’re talking about

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today, some real bummer stuff.
The short description of what

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we’re talking about is that time
in the 70s when the FBI

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essentially funded an insurgency
on the Pine Ridge Sioux

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Reservation in South Dakota.
Between 1973 and 197669 members

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and supporters of the American
Indian Movement died violently

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on that reservation.
Another 350 members and

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supporters were assaulted by way
of stabbings, beating, shootings

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and more.
And it all happened at the very

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least under the supervision of
the FBI, if not straight out

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funded by the FBI.
Good times, very good times, and

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obviously we all learned our
lesson and there were lots of

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committee meetings and trials
and we moved on in the country

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and everybody loves each other
now.

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Yeah, I think this was the point
where we bridge the divide.

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We healed as a nation and you
know, things especially on

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reservations now completely
different.

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It’s like everyone’s at
burgeoning Switzerland, Yeah.

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Unfettered wealth, love and
understanding.

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And yeah, I can’t even go on,
man.

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Yeah, we’re even sending ice
there now, getting all the

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benefits of living in.
America.

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Oh, yeah.
I mean, that’s a whole other

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story which actually relates to
this because it is the sort of

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thing where you look at these
moments in history where

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especially the federal police,
the federal bureaucracy in

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dealing with indigenous folks,
Indian Country, however we want

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to call it.
And you see the parallels

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between, oh, the American
government has always had a

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capacity to be supremely evil.
Yeah.

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It’s just that was often pointed
at people with brown skin who

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were locked away somewhere the
average person didn’t see.

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For me, I grew up with a father
who was very political in the

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late 60s and early 70s in the
AIM movement from the Skokomish

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Indian Reservation with ties,
the Yakima Indian Reservation

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and Warm Springs and Hawaiian
indigenous nationalism, whatever

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you want to call it, because
Hawaiians don’t get a

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reservation or a nation for some
strange reason.

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But he told me stories about
this movement and Dick Wilson

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was a very common name among
people in Indian country.

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His goon squad.
I mean, that’s something that is

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last till this day.
There’s a goon squad on the

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Skokomis reservation because we
have a similar person in charge

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who doesn’t even live on the rez
and you go against them and

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suddenly your truck might be
burned to the ground by his goon

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squad.
So all of this echoes today, and

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it’s sort of echoing beyond the
borders of Indian Country as

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well in that FBI has never been
your friend.

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I hate to break it to you.
Yeah, and we have COINTELPRO in

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the title of this episode.
And I know eagle eared listeners

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might be like butt Adam,
COINTELPRO ended in 1973 and you

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said this carried on into 1976.
And that is exactly why this is

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part of the COINTELPRO episodes,
because shit like that doesn’t

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end.
They just give it a new name and

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keep doing it.
Rebranding, right?

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Yeah, even if of what happened
here, what we’re talking about

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today didn’t technically happen
under the umbrella of

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COINTELPRO.
It is COINTELPRO activities just

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continuing after that program is
alleged to have ended.

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I think it’s also important to
note that especially when you

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look at the FBI, it has always
been a political organization.

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It was started out as a
political organization to pursue

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whatever the behest of whatever
asshole was in charge at the

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time, whether that be, you know,
like in the FDR, JFK,

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Eisenhower, Nixon, Bush, Trump.
It has always, always been that.

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And COINTELPRO is probably the
primest example of that from

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that era.
But even before then, I mean,

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who do you think was knocking
down the doors during the on

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American committee years?
And he was fucking with

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Oppenheimer, Fucking FBI, man.
It’s always been a political

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organization.
So not that I’m a in any way

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being like, oh, Kash Patel is
OK.

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He’s a fucking idiot.
Yeah, but it’s not anything new.

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It’s exactly what the FBI always
does.

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Yeah.
And so this is a prime example

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of how that FBI can really
destroy your life and then just

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walk away.
Be like, what you gonna do?

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Oh, wait.
Nothing.

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OK, we’ll just rebrand and move
on.

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Do the same thing.
Yeah, and it feels like kind of

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the same thing with MK Ultra.
You hear the same thing where

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people are like, oh, MK Ultra
also ended in 1973.

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And it’s like, well, one explain
Jonestown that was at the time

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lots of very credible voices in
politics and the media both were

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like, was that the CIA?
I think that might have been the

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CIA.
And then after that, there’s all

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these cults and communes that
start popping up and it’s like,

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do you not realize what
happened?

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They just took it out of the
hospital and moved it into the

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real world.
Yeah, I mean, hell, Mark David

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Chapman, 1980.
Yeah, I mean, that’s well after

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that, and there’s got to get too
after that.

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But there is a direct, direct
link in that the Doctor Who came

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to visit Mark David Chapman in
prison was the head of fucking

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MK Ultra.
I don’t know what else to say.

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What a coincidence.
Yeah, yeah, A.

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Huge coincidence.
So you already mentioned him a

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little bit.
I think Dick Wilson is a good

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place to start.
Not exactly the name people are

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probably expecting to hear,
yeah.

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The good old Dick Wilson.
But Dick Wilson is the name.

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I I do have to say it is a great
name for a political banner.

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It’s like vote Dick Wilson this
summer in, Yeah, in the local

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election.
Dick Wilson’s on your side or

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also Dick Wilson Automotive.
It sounds like he should be

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selling Ford trucks.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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And I hope if when he ran for
reelection, I hope his campaign

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slogan was Stick with Dick.
I hope so too.

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Because that would be good.
I don’t want that for him.

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He seems like an absolute
monster and I don’t want happy.

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I mean, he’s dead now.
He died in I think 1990.

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But.
Victoria Wilson is a perfect

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example of sort of the
dichotomous nature of Indian

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country wherein there’s always
been always from even in the

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European colonial period, in the
15, sixteen 1700s before the

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American colonial period,
there’s always been a catter or

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a group of indigenous folks that
side with the colonizers.

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They’re just like, it’s going to
be easier if we work with these

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people and help with these
people.

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And if we like, we’ll there’s no
way they can kill us all

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Mentality of it.
Yeah.

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And so Dick Wilson very much
fell into, hey, let’s work

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together and I’ll get rich too.
And I’m sure they’ll never come

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for me and put me in death camp.
And there’s people that are

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always going to be that way.
It’s just the reality of it.

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Right.
And then the sort of dichotomy

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of that, I mean, I don’t know
what the percentage would be,

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but the dichotomy of that would
be the people who are like, read

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the room, read the right again
wall.

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These people will never give us
rights.

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They’ll never accept us.
We have to fight for every scrap

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we can get and we have to stay
true to who we are.

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Obviously this plays a lot into
the history of American

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indigenous interaction wherein
Jefferson to Grant that was the

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extermination period where the
US policy was the extermination

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policy wherein they were
fighting the wars, they were

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treating genocides across
country.

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You had everything from Jackson
ethnically cleansing most of the

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South and Midwest to Lincoln
making all the Indians no longer

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war combatants but criminals
fighting the merit so he could

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just cause massive massacres and
not have to treat Indians as war

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combatants.
Completely different set of

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rules to basically grant
realizing that hey, we’re

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spending like $2,000,000 a week
fighting the Indians on the

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plains and we’re losing.
Thus came the assimilation

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period that goes up into the
1950s, where the road to hell is

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paved with good intentions,
where they’re like, kill the

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Indian, save the man’s
simulation schools and literally

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stealing children off a
reservation, sending them to

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these boarding schools, which
lasted up into the 70s in

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reality, but really kind of
shifted in the 1950s with

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termination policy, which is,
but we’re still in.

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And that was about getting
Indians off the reservation and

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into urban areas.
And in that process, sort of

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taking more land away from
reservations and giving it to

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the federal government and
selling it off.

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My point is actually valid here.
I’m getting to a point because

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of the assimilation policy, a
lot of the kids that came back

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to the reservations, the more
traditionalists, like they’re

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never going to accept us.
Kind of there is this huge

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bifurcation of, oh, you’ve been
turned into a white American

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Indian as opposed to an actual
indigenous Indian.

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And the old traditionalists who
still live by the old ways did

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100% kind of push them away from
society.

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So it’s not surprising when you
have someone like Dick Wilson,

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who was turned into the white
man to save the Indian, was

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pushed away from the more
traditional society and went all

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in with the whites with the
overboards.

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So during the termination era,
it was very easy to find

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something like hired guns from
the reservations to do his

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bidding because they were
probably going through a similar

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thing where they were ostracized
from their grandparents or their

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aunts and uncles and didn’t have
a place per SE in the

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traditional indigenous
community.

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And so my point being, none of
this happens in the fucking

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back.
There’s a very clear reason why

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people like Dick Wilson existed
in his political goon squad and

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the people who fought them and
AIM existed who are trying to

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preserve any little tiny scrap
of culture we had left.

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Yeah, that’s one of the first
things that struck me about this

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is Dick Wilson versus name and
what happened at Pine Ridge.

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I’ve seen it described as
progressive versus traditionals

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or traditional list.
And I picked up pretty much

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right away that we’re talking
progressive in a different way.

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It’s almost the opposite of
progressive.

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There’s a documentary about what
we’re talking about today called

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Incident at Oglala.
Very good documentary and it’s

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described in there as
traditional beliefs versus

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people who were puppets of the
government.

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Yeah, and that was the point of
the assimilation there was to

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create those puppets.
And it was all purposeful.

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You know, it’s like, but you
realize that all of this, even

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if you look at the indigenous
thing or help you look at the

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Holocaust Alliance insurance
insured the death camps for the

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Nazis during the Holocaust.
Like this was all

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institutionalized and it’s all
had a purpose.

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It wasn’t, you know, the
California genocide wasn’t just

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a bunch of gold rush miners
going in and accidentally

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killing all the Indians.
It was like, no, California

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State created a law called the
protection of Indians that

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enslaved them.
This stuff was very, very, very

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intentional in the US government
news.

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Like, hey, even if we don’t
fully convert every Indian into

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a white man, quote UN quote,
we’ll convert enough to be on

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our side to do our bidding when
they do go back to the

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reservation.
And that will just again,

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dilute, dilute, dilute.
And that’s how you get somebody

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like fucking Dick Wilson.
Yeah, it seems like there was

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also a land dispute at the
center of this, in that there

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was a lawsuit filed in the 70s
against the federal government

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over them taking the Black Hills
in 1977, which was a violation

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of the 1868 Treaty of Fort
Laramie that established the

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00:11:53,520 –> 00:11:56,400
Great Sioux Reservation.
And Wilson wanted to reach a

219
00:11:56,400 –> 00:11:59,120
settlement with the government
over that, and the

220
00:11:59,120 –> 00:12:01,760
traditionalists wanted the Black
Hills back.

221
00:12:01,920 –> 00:12:03,240
Yeah, went their fucking land
back.

222
00:12:03,400 –> 00:12:06,920
So what’s interesting about the
treaty is it basically, I don’t

223
00:12:06,920 –> 00:12:11,960
know the right verb to use here,
seeded aloud all of what’s now

224
00:12:11,960 –> 00:12:15,640
South Dakota West of the
Missouri River to the Lakota.

225
00:12:15,640 –> 00:12:19,120
It’s like this is Indian
Country, like Oklahoma was

226
00:12:19,200 –> 00:12:22,440
seeded to the Cherokee, Chaka,
Chickasaw, you know, as they

227
00:12:22,440 –> 00:12:26,080
were ethnic cleansing the 1830s.
And then that was drastically

228
00:12:26,080 –> 00:12:29,480
whittled away during the Plains
wars to the small reservations

229
00:12:29,480 –> 00:12:32,360
you sort of have now, Pine
Ridge, Rosebud, etcetera.

230
00:12:32,360 –> 00:12:35,840
And so you went to South Dakota.
The whole half of the state West

231
00:12:35,840 –> 00:12:38,160
of the Missouri River is a lot
of land.

232
00:12:38,640 –> 00:12:41,640
It’s a lot of valuable land as
well, including, I mean, at the

233
00:12:41,640 –> 00:12:44,240
time they found gold in the
Black Hills.

234
00:12:44,240 –> 00:12:47,280
So they were fucked.
But most importantly, the whole

235
00:12:47,280 –> 00:12:50,040
thing in the Black Hills was
about the value of it as a

236
00:12:50,400 –> 00:12:52,680
touristic endeavor, but the
value of land, the sacredness of

237
00:12:52,680 –> 00:12:55,000
the land, but also the fact that
Mount Rushmore was there as a

238
00:12:55,000 –> 00:12:58,280
very, very big middle finger to
indigenous people because of

239
00:12:58,360 –> 00:13:01,640
that was carved into one of the
most important spiritual

240
00:13:01,640 –> 00:13:05,720
mountains to the people there
for genocidal maniacs on it.

241
00:13:05,720 –> 00:13:08,880
If you look at it from an
Indigenous POV, you guys can

242
00:13:08,880 –> 00:13:10,480
look that up yourself.
So I’m not going to get into

243
00:13:10,480 –> 00:13:12,800
each one.
But Dick Wilson wanted the money

244
00:13:12,920 –> 00:13:15,200
because if he got the money, he
would be able to launder that

245
00:13:15,200 –> 00:13:20,880
money into his pockets, as a lot
of very, very white coated

246
00:13:20,880 –> 00:13:23,040
Indian chiefs often do to this
day.

247
00:13:23,120 –> 00:13:25,960
And then he could stay in power.
He would be able to probably

248
00:13:25,960 –> 00:13:29,400
retire to a villa in Mexico and
not have to worry about anything

249
00:13:29,400 –> 00:13:32,360
for the rest of his life.
But you can’t put a price on

250
00:13:32,360 –> 00:13:34,760
spiritual land.
Like, it’s just impossible.

251
00:13:34,840 –> 00:13:37,160
Yeah.
And so the Supreme Court has

252
00:13:37,160 –> 00:13:41,440
even tried to pay the Lakota
people for the Black Hills, and

253
00:13:41,440 –> 00:13:44,600
they refused the payment to this
day because it’s not about that.

254
00:13:44,600 –> 00:13:46,840
It’s not about fucking money.
And it’s that’s really hard for

255
00:13:46,840 –> 00:13:48,360
Americans to understand,
honestly.

256
00:13:48,920 –> 00:13:50,920
Let’s talk about AIM a little
bit.

257
00:13:51,040 –> 00:13:54,840
American Indian Movement,
founded in Minneapolis, fucking

258
00:13:54,840 –> 00:14:00,600
love Minneapolis in 1968 to
address the myriad issues facing

259
00:14:00,840 –> 00:14:04,120
American Indians at the time.
Poverty, discrimination, police

260
00:14:04,120 –> 00:14:06,040
brutality, all the greatest
hits.

261
00:14:06,080 –> 00:14:09,200
They participated in all sorts
of cool shit.

262
00:14:09,200 –> 00:14:12,400
Namely, the occupation of
Alcatraz, which will probably be

263
00:14:12,400 –> 00:14:16,160
its own episode at some point
soon, seeing as how Alcatraz is

264
00:14:16,160 –> 00:14:20,160
back in the news.
Also a valuable part of the

265
00:14:20,440 –> 00:14:21,920
Rainbow Coalition with Fred
Hampton.

266
00:14:22,240 –> 00:14:25,160
Like we’re involved there.
But it is like those who going

267
00:14:25,160 –> 00:14:28,600
back to the termination policy
of moving indigenous folks into

268
00:14:28,760 –> 00:14:32,080
urban areas, this is a direct
outcome of that policy.

269
00:14:32,160 –> 00:14:34,760
You moved Indians into the city.
All the things you said just

270
00:14:34,880 –> 00:14:37,120
happened, happened.
You know, Starlight Tours are a

271
00:14:37,120 –> 00:14:38,880
real thing in Minnesota and
North Dakota.

272
00:14:38,880 –> 00:14:41,640
And you put people in a
situation like that, they’re

273
00:14:41,640 –> 00:14:44,640
going to band together to
protect themselves and demand

274
00:14:44,640 –> 00:14:49,160
just basic human rights.
And this was an affront to the

275
00:14:49,520 –> 00:14:51,920
US government.
Like how dare they, was their

276
00:14:51,920 –> 00:14:54,480
response.
AIM also did some other cool

277
00:14:54,480 –> 00:14:57,080
shit.
They seized a replica of the

278
00:14:57,080 –> 00:15:01,400
Mayflower in Boston during an
anniversary celebration of the

279
00:15:01,400 –> 00:15:03,360
Pilgrims landing at Plymouth
Rock.

280
00:15:03,640 –> 00:15:06,200
Occupied Mount Rushmore for a
few days.

281
00:15:06,240 –> 00:15:09,240
They staged a successful
takeover of a Coast Guard

282
00:15:09,240 –> 00:15:13,080
station along Lake MI in 1971
and kept it.

283
00:15:13,200 –> 00:15:16,240
They built the first Indian
Community School there and it

284
00:15:16,240 –> 00:15:18,680
operated until 1980.
That’s fucking rad.

285
00:15:19,360 –> 00:15:22,480
Also took over and occupied the
Bureau of Indian Affairs

286
00:15:22,480 –> 00:15:25,960
building in 1972.
And that is really important to

287
00:15:25,960 –> 00:15:28,360
the story.
Yeah, I think the Department of

288
00:15:28,480 –> 00:15:31,760
Interior, which the Bureau of
Indian Affairs is under.

289
00:15:31,800 –> 00:15:36,680
So as I mentioned, we in Indian
Country are slotted in with

290
00:15:36,680 –> 00:15:39,240
National Parks and Wildlife and
when it comes to the US

291
00:15:39,240 –> 00:15:40,440
government.
Because that’s who the

292
00:15:40,600 –> 00:15:43,440
Department of Interior, that’s
normally what they oversee.

293
00:15:43,920 –> 00:15:47,680
Yes, yeah, They oversee public
lands and public wildlife and

294
00:15:48,040 –> 00:15:49,480
that’s basically it.
And.

295
00:15:49,640 –> 00:15:52,040
American Indians.
I’m sure there’s no intentional

296
00:15:52,040 –> 00:15:55,480
message being sent there.
No, but it is very much a you

297
00:15:55,480 –> 00:15:57,760
just can’t help but sigh.
It’s just like, come on, man.

298
00:15:57,760 –> 00:16:02,520
Like you haven’t changed that.
And almost 150 years and the BIA

299
00:16:02,720 –> 00:16:07,560
is a bureaucracy, man.
It is meant to keep Indians

300
00:16:07,560 –> 00:16:09,120
down.
I mean, it’s a federal

301
00:16:09,120 –> 00:16:12,000
bureaucracy that has its own
police force, has its own rules,

302
00:16:12,000 –> 00:16:16,640
has its own machinations that
are there to treat us as second

303
00:16:16,640 –> 00:16:18,760
class citizens, period.
I mean, there’s no other way to

304
00:16:18,760 –> 00:16:20,200
put it.
And that’s putting it nicely.

305
00:16:20,280 –> 00:16:23,400
And occupying the Department of
Interior and the Bureau of

306
00:16:23,400 –> 00:16:27,640
Indian Affairs offices is a very
huge move to get international

307
00:16:27,640 –> 00:16:29,960
media attention, right?
Like, it was like, hey, these

308
00:16:29,960 –> 00:16:31,800
people are supposed to be
providing, and this is the

309
00:16:31,800 –> 00:16:33,200
context.
These people are supposed to be

310
00:16:33,200 –> 00:16:36,560
providing us with healthcare,
education, with housing, with

311
00:16:36,560 –> 00:16:41,360
food and with security forever.
The treaties set in, as long as

312
00:16:41,360 –> 00:16:44,200
the grass grows and the rivers
flow, we will provide you with

313
00:16:44,200 –> 00:16:49,400
these five tenants of society,
health, education, housing, food

314
00:16:49,400 –> 00:16:51,080
and security.
That was the deal.

315
00:16:51,080 –> 00:16:52,920
We gave you the land and the
resources.

316
00:16:53,120 –> 00:16:54,520
You took that and didn’t give us
a cut.

317
00:16:54,760 –> 00:16:57,800
And in return you pay for that.
Obviously.

318
00:16:57,880 –> 00:16:59,800
I think somebody might have had
their fingers crossed behind

319
00:16:59,800 –> 00:17:02,280
their backs when they signed
those treaties, Adam, because

320
00:17:02,280 –> 00:17:04,599
they were doing none of that,
none whatsoever.

321
00:17:04,680 –> 00:17:07,720
I’ve, I’ve spent my entire
fucking life having people be

322
00:17:07,720 –> 00:17:11,319
like, oh, why are reservations
so rundown and why do they live

323
00:17:11,319 –> 00:17:13,599
like that and blah blah, blah.
And like, why is it so

324
00:17:13,880 –> 00:17:15,520
depressed?
I was like, motherfucker,

325
00:17:15,520 –> 00:17:18,280
because we can’t pay for
housing.

326
00:17:18,280 –> 00:17:19,760
The housing is built by the
federal government.

327
00:17:19,760 –> 00:17:21,760
We can’t pay for hospitals.
Hospitals are built by the

328
00:17:21,760 –> 00:17:23,359
federal government.
We can’t pay for schools.

329
00:17:23,400 –> 00:17:24,760
They’re paid for by the federal
government.

330
00:17:25,000 –> 00:17:27,960
And there’s no mechanic nation
in our existence that allows us

331
00:17:27,960 –> 00:17:32,320
to do it on our own without now
in some cases the 10% having

332
00:17:32,320 –> 00:17:35,080
casinos to help fund that stuff
or illicit means.

333
00:17:35,400 –> 00:17:38,280
So for some people like Dick
Wilson, illicit means for the

334
00:17:38,280 –> 00:17:40,200
only way to go as long as he got
his cut.

335
00:17:40,800 –> 00:17:45,200
And so in response to Ames
occupation of the Bureau of

336
00:17:45,200 –> 00:17:48,240
Indian Affairs building, the
Oglala Sioux Tribal Council

337
00:17:48,240 –> 00:17:52,760
passed a bunch of resolutions.
And the most important one was

338
00:17:52,760 –> 00:17:56,720
one that authorized Dick Wilson
to, quote, take whatever action

339
00:17:56,720 –> 00:18:00,520
that he felt would be necessary
to protect the lives and

340
00:18:00,520 –> 00:18:05,000
property and to ensure the peace
and dignity of the Pine Ridge

341
00:18:05,040 –> 00:18:07,320
Indian Reservation.
End Quote.

342
00:18:07,400 –> 00:18:11,000
And in his view, that gave him
the authority to set up a secret

343
00:18:11,000 –> 00:18:15,360
police squad that was called the
Guardians of the Oglala Nation

344
00:18:15,440 –> 00:18:20,120
AKA Goon.
Literally called the Goon Squad.

345
00:18:20,560 –> 00:18:24,040
Yeah, and it’s not like that
wasn’t already a term that

346
00:18:24,040 –> 00:18:28,520
people knew was bad.
I mean, when you choose that, I

347
00:18:28,520 –> 00:18:31,960
mean that’s Trump level of, hey,
we’re going to do the worst

348
00:18:31,960 –> 00:18:34,560
thing possible because we know
you know what it means.

349
00:18:34,680 –> 00:18:38,600
It’s suggested in a book that
we’re going to talk about later

350
00:18:38,600 –> 00:18:41,920
on called In the Spirit of Crazy
Horse, which is a very long and

351
00:18:41,920 –> 00:18:43,720
detailed book about this
incident.

352
00:18:43,840 –> 00:18:48,720
It’s suggested there that it
wasn’t so much that Guardians of

353
00:18:48,720 –> 00:18:51,960
the Oglala Nation kicked that
name first.

354
00:18:52,080 –> 00:18:56,040
It suggested that people started
calling them a goon squad, and

355
00:18:56,040 –> 00:18:59,080
they were like, Oh yeah, GON,
that’s perfect.

356
00:18:59,080 –> 00:19:00,840
Let’s call ourselves the Goon
Squad.

357
00:19:01,200 –> 00:19:03,240
It’s like.
Damn, they embraced it.

358
00:19:03,640 –> 00:19:06,400
That’s crazy.
It’s dark, Very dark.

359
00:19:06,520 –> 00:19:09,120
How is that different from
people signing up to be nice

360
00:19:09,120 –> 00:19:11,400
right now?
Yeah, people are happily,

361
00:19:11,400 –> 00:19:14,680
gleefully doing horrific things
because they’re in a goon squad

362
00:19:14,880 –> 00:19:18,120
and they’re wearing that ice
proudly on their fucking shirt.

363
00:19:18,200 –> 00:19:21,080
Best case scenario, they’re
wearing it proudly on their

364
00:19:21,080 –> 00:19:22,560
shirt.
Sometimes there’s just no

365
00:19:22,560 –> 00:19:23,920
indication who they.
Are.

366
00:19:23,920 –> 00:19:25,720
Yeah, exactly.
Sort of.

367
00:19:25,840 –> 00:19:28,560
I don’t want to get too
philosophical here, but it’s

368
00:19:28,560 –> 00:19:29,960
sort of.
I don’t really believe in good

369
00:19:29,960 –> 00:19:32,000
and evil.
I believe more in hard choices

370
00:19:32,000 –> 00:19:34,360
and easy choices.
And if you’re a poor piece of

371
00:19:34,360 –> 00:19:36,680
shit on a reservation and Dick
Wilson comes to you and be like,

372
00:19:36,680 –> 00:19:40,160
hey, I’ll give you a salary and
a house and fucking food and

373
00:19:40,160 –> 00:19:42,360
blah, blah, blah.
The easy choices, all you got to

374
00:19:42,360 –> 00:19:44,720
do is beat up who I say to beat
up because you’re probably

375
00:19:44,720 –> 00:19:47,160
already a meathead and a bully
anyway.

376
00:19:47,240 –> 00:19:50,000
The easy choice is to take that
job and do bad shit.

377
00:19:50,040 –> 00:19:52,480
The hard choice is be like, no,
man, I’m not going to beat up my

378
00:19:52,480 –> 00:19:54,000
own fucking people.
I don’t care how much money you

379
00:19:54,000 –> 00:19:56,360
pay me, and I’m going to
actually find against you easy

380
00:19:56,360 –> 00:19:59,400
or hard, you know what I mean?
And again, I hate to go back to,

381
00:19:59,600 –> 00:20:02,520
you know, the history of it all
or the context of it all, but

382
00:20:02,640 –> 00:20:05,480
you know, we’re talking about
people who are living in.

383
00:20:05,880 –> 00:20:09,360
One of the most depressed
societies on the planet, Pine

384
00:20:09,360 –> 00:20:12,280
Ridge Indian Reservation,
Rosebud, Wind River, all these

385
00:20:12,280 –> 00:20:14,360
reservations in the plains.
You know, some of these places

386
00:20:14,360 –> 00:20:19,200
have lower life expectancy today
than Iraq and Sudan and places

387
00:20:19,200 –> 00:20:20,480
like that.
And that’s today.

388
00:20:20,640 –> 00:20:23,920
Think about the 60s and 70s when
a lot of these places barely had

389
00:20:23,920 –> 00:20:26,520
electricity or running water.
And so you had somebody like

390
00:20:26,520 –> 00:20:29,120
Dick Wilson come along and be
like, hey, I can literally give

391
00:20:29,120 –> 00:20:31,120
you a place to live and food and
money.

392
00:20:31,200 –> 00:20:33,640
The easy choice might be to go
bust some heads.

393
00:20:33,680 –> 00:20:36,480
Yeah, and that’s it.
Seems like exactly what

394
00:20:36,480 –> 00:20:38,400
happened.
The Goon Squad was made-up of

395
00:20:38,400 –> 00:20:42,240
people who were essentially
relying on Dick Wilson for money

396
00:20:42,400 –> 00:20:45,720
and for their living.
It was also apparently funded

397
00:20:45,840 –> 00:20:49,200
through misappropriated Hwy.
safety funds.

398
00:20:49,520 –> 00:20:52,920
That’s also according to the In
the Spirit of Crazy Horse.

399
00:20:53,160 –> 00:20:56,200
Book Yeah, I remember that.
It’s the sort of thing where I

400
00:20:56,200 –> 00:21:00,000
just rewatched Independence Day
with my kids because it’s it’s

401
00:21:00,000 –> 00:21:03,120
summertime and there’s this
great little scene where Jeff go

402
00:21:03,280 –> 00:21:06,120
Bloom’s dad is like in the
background when they’re talking

403
00:21:06,120 –> 00:21:08,600
about who’s paying for Area 51,
where’s this all money come

404
00:21:08,600 –> 00:21:10,560
from?
And his dad Primes is like, you

405
00:21:10,560 –> 00:21:13,400
don’t really think a hammer cost
$20,000 do you?

406
00:21:14,000 –> 00:21:16,040
Yeah, and.
It reminded me of that because

407
00:21:16,040 –> 00:21:19,040
it’s like, I guarantee you the
Highway Patrol or whoever was

408
00:21:19,080 –> 00:21:21,800
like, oh, yeah, the repair on
that bike was 100 grand.

409
00:21:21,920 –> 00:21:23,120
Yeah.
And they’re like, OK.

410
00:21:23,480 –> 00:21:27,200
Also, there’s no cars in South
Dakota, so the highway probably

411
00:21:27,360 –> 00:21:29,920
didn’t need that much upkeep,
especially not back then.

412
00:21:30,000 –> 00:21:32,400
Yeah.
Yeah, there’s like, it’s

413
00:21:32,600 –> 00:21:34,320
shocking.
I spend a lot of time in South

414
00:21:34,320 –> 00:21:35,960
Dakota, nowhere near us.
I never lived there like you

415
00:21:35,960 –> 00:21:38,320
did, but like, it’s shocking how
you’ll be driving along the road

416
00:21:38,320 –> 00:21:40,440
and it will just turn to gravel.
Yeah, yeah.

417
00:21:40,720 –> 00:21:43,760
There’s still just barely a
million people in that entire

418
00:21:43,760 –> 00:21:44,680
state.
Yeah.

419
00:21:44,760 –> 00:21:48,080
Yeah, it is rural.
Yeah, which is what makes all

420
00:21:48,080 –> 00:21:52,120
those killings on Pine Ridge in
those three years so fucking

421
00:21:52,120 –> 00:21:54,040
shocking.
That was the highest murder rate

422
00:21:54,040 –> 00:21:57,840
in the United States by far,
well beyond Detroit, which at

423
00:21:57,840 –> 00:22:00,440
the time was the murder capital
of the United States.

424
00:22:00,560 –> 00:22:04,200
It’s like South Dakota was.
New York in the 70s, which

425
00:22:04,200 –> 00:22:06,600
everyone talks about how
dangerous and it was, and it’s

426
00:22:06,600 –> 00:22:08,880
like still not as bad as being
in South Dakota.

427
00:22:09,160 –> 00:22:12,920
Yeah, and there were 15,000
people on Pine Ridge at that

428
00:22:12,920 –> 00:22:14,680
time.
That murder rate, That’s like

429
00:22:14,680 –> 00:22:17,640
fucking El Salvador before that
Boo Kelly guy.

430
00:22:17,880 –> 00:22:20,320
That’s nuts.
Yeah, welcome to Indian

431
00:22:20,320 –> 00:22:21,400
countrymen.
Yeah.

432
00:22:21,520 –> 00:22:24,400
Like fucking insane.
Yeah, and things haven’t gotten

433
00:22:24,680 –> 00:22:27,920
too much better in that.
Not to skip ahead, but you know,

434
00:22:28,040 –> 00:22:30,640
the according to the feds, only
three people were actually

435
00:22:30,640 –> 00:22:32,680
murdered during that time, not
69.

436
00:22:32,680 –> 00:22:35,560
And the rest were mysterious.
And that’s the same today.

437
00:22:35,560 –> 00:22:37,440
I mean, when you look at
murdered or missing indigenous

438
00:22:37,440 –> 00:22:40,120
women movement, you know, when
you know, all these reservations

439
00:22:40,120 –> 00:22:42,960
where people just go missing,
disappear or get murdered all

440
00:22:42,960 –> 00:22:44,720
the time.
And it’s just either not even

441
00:22:44,720 –> 00:22:48,040
looked at or just brushed aside
as, oh, must have been suicide

442
00:22:48,040 –> 00:22:49,560
or it must have been the
weather.

443
00:22:49,560 –> 00:22:52,560
Or literally they’ll blame the
weather before they blame an

444
00:22:52,560 –> 00:22:54,360
outsider.
And you know, again, that

445
00:22:54,480 –> 00:22:56,040
nothing, none of this happens in
a vacuum.

446
00:22:56,040 –> 00:22:58,760
And it’s the institutions,
because on reservations, some of

447
00:22:58,760 –> 00:23:02,040
them do have local police, but
they have no power and actual

448
00:23:02,040 –> 00:23:05,480
crime crimes like murder or rape
or kidnapping, disappearance,

449
00:23:05,480 –> 00:23:09,120
that has to be investigated by
the feds and the feds don’t give

450
00:23:09,120 –> 00:23:10,120
a fuck.
Yeah.

451
00:23:10,240 –> 00:23:16,120
And Speaking of the BIA police,
they work the police in charge

452
00:23:16,200 –> 00:23:20,560
at the Pine Ridge Reservation,
but they report directly to the

453
00:23:20,560 –> 00:23:24,080
FBI.
And two of the top people in the

454
00:23:24,080 –> 00:23:27,720
BIA police, a guy named Delmar
Eastman and another guy named

455
00:23:27,720 –> 00:23:30,840
Dwayne Brewer, were also leaders
of the Goon squad.

456
00:23:30,840 –> 00:23:35,440
So there’s no question the FBI
at the very least knew what the

457
00:23:35,440 –> 00:23:38,840
Goon Squad was doing.
And it’s obvious they knew.

458
00:23:38,880 –> 00:23:41,960
The question is, is that what
the FBI wanted to happen?

459
00:23:42,040 –> 00:23:44,480
And yeah.
Yeah, the FBI has always been

460
00:23:44,640 –> 00:23:49,880
there to ensure that Indigenous
life is as hard as possible and

461
00:23:49,880 –> 00:23:51,920
make sure that nobody really
sees what’s going on in

462
00:23:51,920 –> 00:23:54,200
reservations.
I know people, like, went out of

463
00:23:54,200 –> 00:23:56,960
their way to think Killers of
the Flower Moon was an amazing

464
00:23:56,960 –> 00:23:59,440
depiction of blah, blah, blah.
It was shitty.

465
00:23:59,440 –> 00:24:01,960
It was as shitty as the rest of
them because it framed the FBI

466
00:24:01,960 –> 00:24:03,240
as coming in as some sort of
savior.

467
00:24:03,240 –> 00:24:06,960
So I was like, no, they came in
to make sure that no one talked

468
00:24:06,960 –> 00:24:08,560
about this in the what really
happened.

469
00:24:08,840 –> 00:24:11,360
And that’s not at all portrayed
in the film, obviously.

470
00:24:11,560 –> 00:24:14,000
Yeah, the FBI upholds the status
quo.

471
00:24:14,000 –> 00:24:18,640
That is the FBII think their
main role in this country is

472
00:24:18,640 –> 00:24:20,600
make sure nothing fucking
changes.

473
00:24:20,760 –> 00:24:22,960
Exactly.
And it’s always fucking been

474
00:24:22,960 –> 00:24:24,720
that way.
I mean, they’re afraid of

475
00:24:24,760 –> 00:24:28,600
anybody and everybody who wants
to from Fred Hampton wanting to

476
00:24:28,600 –> 00:24:33,360
just give kids breakfast all the
way to Oppenheimer being like,

477
00:24:33,360 –> 00:24:36,520
hey, maybe we should be careful
with nuclear weapons all the way

478
00:24:36,520 –> 00:24:38,240
to, you know, on the
reservations.

479
00:24:38,240 –> 00:24:40,920
We’re like, hey, can we actually
get what you guys promised us

480
00:24:40,920 –> 00:24:44,560
for our entire land?
It’s like, no, none of that.

481
00:24:44,640 –> 00:24:49,640
So Dick Wilson, he’s got this
goon squad running wild and

482
00:24:49,760 –> 00:24:52,720
people don’t like it, as one
would expect.

483
00:24:53,080 –> 00:24:58,040
So this effort is undertaken to
get Dick Wilson out of office by

484
00:24:58,040 –> 00:25:01,400
way of impeachment and that
fails.

485
00:25:01,720 –> 00:25:05,160
And that I didn’t know.
This was what led to the

486
00:25:05,200 –> 00:25:09,960
occupation of Wounded Knee,
which was a 71 day standoff

487
00:25:10,120 –> 00:25:15,600
where the town of Wounded Knee,
SD was occupied by a members and

488
00:25:15,600 –> 00:25:18,840
their supporters who were
protesting the fact that Dick

489
00:25:18,840 –> 00:25:22,120
Wilson was still allowed to
remain in his position.

490
00:25:22,160 –> 00:25:24,000
Yeah.
I mean, a lot of this comes down

491
00:25:24,000 –> 00:25:27,280
to, again, push comes to shove.
I mean, if you’re not, I guess

492
00:25:27,280 –> 00:25:30,960
it comes kind of a pertinent
question today is like, when

493
00:25:30,960 –> 00:25:33,760
does action like this need to
happen?

494
00:25:33,840 –> 00:25:36,760
Because, you know, coming from
the American Indian movement and

495
00:25:36,760 –> 00:25:38,640
this time nothing was changing,
right?

496
00:25:38,800 –> 00:25:42,800
Was getting worse and worse.
And any possibility of change

497
00:25:42,800 –> 00:25:45,240
was obviously not coming through
Dick Wilson in that he was

498
00:25:45,600 –> 00:25:50,040
openly working with the feds.
And so when is it time to

499
00:25:50,040 –> 00:25:53,800
fucking pick up a gun and occupy
a building and say, hey, we need

500
00:25:53,920 –> 00:25:57,800
rights, we need acknowledgement.
And again, pertinent questions

501
00:25:57,800 –> 00:26:01,080
today in that when is it right
to pick up that rifle and be

502
00:26:01,080 –> 00:26:03,120
like, no, I won’t do it any
fucking more.

503
00:26:03,280 –> 00:26:06,760
It’s over.
And in this case, the FBI would

504
00:26:06,760 –> 00:26:10,880
have been the ones who would
investigate all of these murders

505
00:26:10,880 –> 00:26:14,760
that happened at the time.
But their argument was that

506
00:26:15,040 –> 00:26:18,080
what, we just don’t have the
manpower to do it.

507
00:26:18,200 –> 00:26:20,360
Like we don’t have enough
agents.

508
00:26:20,360 –> 00:26:24,400
The Rapid City office FBI agent
in charge was named George

509
00:26:24,400 –> 00:26:25,560
O’clock.
Which?

510
00:26:25,680 –> 00:26:28,920
How many times do you think that
guy burst into a fucking packed

511
00:26:28,920 –> 00:26:30,920
bar and was like, it’s George
Clock?

512
00:26:32,600 –> 00:26:36,960
Every day, man, Every.
Day and his argument was well,

513
00:26:36,960 –> 00:26:39,880
we just don’t have the manpower
to deal with this.

514
00:26:39,920 –> 00:26:45,080
Meanwhile, one according to Ward
Churchill Georgia clock quote

515
00:26:45,200 –> 00:26:48,520
enjoyed the highest ratio of
agents to citizens ever

516
00:26:48,520 –> 00:26:52,520
sustained in any area at any
time in the history of the

517
00:26:52,520 –> 00:26:55,200
Bureau.
And I believe that’s true

518
00:26:55,280 –> 00:26:59,160
because the FBI did have enough
free time to go after the

519
00:26:59,160 –> 00:27:02,080
victims of the Goon Squad,
right?

520
00:27:02,600 –> 00:27:10,600
During 1973 alone, they amassed
more than 316,000 files on AIM

521
00:27:10,760 –> 00:27:14,640
and its membership, which that
takes a significant amount of

522
00:27:14,640 –> 00:27:17,280
manpower.
So I guess I understand why they

523
00:27:17,280 –> 00:27:19,280
couldn’t investigate all those
murders.

524
00:27:19,280 –> 00:27:22,480
They were busy investigating the
people who were being murdered.

525
00:27:22,680 –> 00:27:25,080
And it’s so fucking obvious too.
It’s like they’re not even

526
00:27:25,080 –> 00:27:26,360
trying to hide their hand,
right?

527
00:27:26,520 –> 00:27:30,320
It’s just a blatant we can’t
openly kill you with the

528
00:27:30,320 –> 00:27:32,480
military anymore, so we’ll just
quiet.

529
00:27:32,640 –> 00:27:34,760
They kill you with the police.
I mean, I don’t know.

530
00:27:34,800 –> 00:27:36,280
I don’t know other way to put
it, You know what I mean?

531
00:27:37,160 –> 00:27:38,600
Yeah, that’s exactly what it
was.

532
00:27:38,840 –> 00:27:43,880
So what happens is at Pine
Ridge, they ask members of AIM

533
00:27:43,880 –> 00:27:46,920
to come help protect them
because government’s not going

534
00:27:46,920 –> 00:27:48,520
to do it.
This goon squad is fucking

535
00:27:48,640 –> 00:27:51,000
killing everybody.
They need help from somewhere.

536
00:27:51,120 –> 00:27:56,520
And 30 year old Leonard Peltier
was one of the AIM members that

537
00:27:56,520 –> 00:27:59,480
decided to go.
And that’s a name people should

538
00:27:59,640 –> 00:28:01,760
recognize.
We’ll talk about that more in a

539
00:28:01,760 –> 00:28:04,480
second.
It was also big where I’m from

540
00:28:04,480 –> 00:28:07,520
because he had lived in Seattle
for years before these events

541
00:28:07,880 –> 00:28:11,560
and he had a a house he shared
in in Seattle.

542
00:28:11,560 –> 00:28:16,360
Then he rented out the space is
upstairs to American Indians who

543
00:28:16,360 –> 00:28:19,880
were in alcohol recovery and
gave them a space to go through

544
00:28:19,880 –> 00:28:22,480
recovery and get their back on
their feet and they’ll find them

545
00:28:22,480 –> 00:28:25,400
jobs.
And so he was very much a big

546
00:28:25,400 –> 00:28:28,080
figure in the community in the
Pacific Northwest before all of

547
00:28:28,080 –> 00:28:29,960
this that we’re about to talk
about, just to get a little

548
00:28:29,960 –> 00:28:31,720
context of who he was as a
person.

549
00:28:31,880 –> 00:28:35,280
Yeah, it’s interesting to me
that in researching this, you

550
00:28:35,280 –> 00:28:40,600
still see some articles and
papers that are like, OK, I

551
00:28:40,600 –> 00:28:43,480
don’t know if all of those
deaths were actually murders.

552
00:28:43,480 –> 00:28:47,200
That’s never been confirmed.
Meanwhile, in the Incident at

553
00:28:47,240 –> 00:28:52,520
Oglala documentary, the person
who says that is Bill Janklow,

554
00:28:52,720 –> 00:28:56,800
who is a dastardly man who we’re
going to talk about more later.

555
00:28:56,880 –> 00:28:59,320
But he was also the attorney
general of South Dakota at the

556
00:28:59,320 –> 00:29:01,600
time, like when those murders
happened.

557
00:29:01,600 –> 00:29:06,240
So if anyone is going to be the
person to say, yeah, that

558
00:29:06,240 –> 00:29:08,720
happened, it’s going to be the
fucking attorney general, like,

559
00:29:08,720 –> 00:29:11,000
Oh yeah, he would know.
They didn’t investigate that

560
00:29:11,000 –> 00:29:13,080
shit.
So he knows the fucking murders

561
00:29:13,080 –> 00:29:14,880
happened.
Wait, Adam, are you saying

562
00:29:14,880 –> 00:29:17,960
appointed attorney generals that
are confirmed by a local

563
00:29:17,960 –> 00:29:20,720
legislature might have a
political agenda?

564
00:29:21,040 –> 00:29:24,480
I would never suggest it, but it
seems like from this possible.

565
00:29:24,600 –> 00:29:26,760
It’s possible.
Very possible.

566
00:29:26,760 –> 00:29:30,320
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And man, Janklow is such a fuck

567
00:29:30,320 –> 00:29:31,360
face.
We’re going to talk about him

568
00:29:31,360 –> 00:29:34,880
more.
It was a crime most foul that

569
00:29:35,000 –> 00:29:38,920
made the FBI finally enter the
Pine Ridge Reservation and try

570
00:29:38,920 –> 00:29:41,080
to take some action.
Did they kill someone?

571
00:29:41,080 –> 00:29:43,800
Did they kidnap some children
and traffic them to Epstein’s

572
00:29:43,800 –> 00:29:44,720
island?
What did they do?

573
00:29:44,880 –> 00:29:48,800
Zach, it’s so much worse.
And 18 year old AIM, remember

574
00:29:48,840 –> 00:29:52,440
awesomely named Jimmy Eagle, was
accused of stealing a pair of

575
00:29:52,440 –> 00:29:53,400
cowboy.
Boots.

576
00:29:53,480 –> 00:29:57,120
Yeah, that’s pretty dire.
Used cowboy boots didn’t even

577
00:29:57,120 –> 00:30:01,440
stroll into a cowboy boots store
and snatch a fresh pair.

578
00:30:01,640 –> 00:30:03,760
As someone who wears boots, do
you know how long it takes to

579
00:30:03,880 –> 00:30:05,480
break in a good pair of boots at
them?

580
00:30:06,160 –> 00:30:09,000
I guess that’s a good point.
Oh my God, it’s insane.

581
00:30:09,160 –> 00:30:12,840
It’s such a petty, petty reason.
And it was a lie.

582
00:30:12,880 –> 00:30:16,520
They had no real intention of
arresting Jimmy Eagle, but they

583
00:30:16,520 –> 00:30:20,360
somehow finagled the details,
details of that crime into a

584
00:30:20,360 –> 00:30:24,720
felony, which gave them, in
their mind, justification to

585
00:30:25,160 –> 00:30:29,600
enter Pine Ridge.
And they first went in on June

586
00:30:29,600 –> 00:30:33,760
25th, 1975.
They stopped at the home of a

587
00:30:33,760 –> 00:30:37,200
woman named Wanda Sears and she
tells them Jimmy Eagle’s not

588
00:30:37,200 –> 00:30:40,160
there.
So the two agents, Jack Kohler,

589
00:30:40,160 –> 00:30:44,920
Ronald Williams, they leave, but
they see 3A members walking

590
00:30:45,000 –> 00:30:48,360
along the highway when they
leave and they pick them up.

591
00:30:48,440 –> 00:30:52,400
Those 3A members wish Draper,
Mike Anderson and Norman

592
00:30:52,400 –> 00:30:55,320
Charles, those first two names,
very important later.

593
00:30:55,360 –> 00:30:58,960
But instead of asking about
where Jimmy Eagle was, they just

594
00:30:58,960 –> 00:31:02,600
interrogated everyone about who
was living at this tent

595
00:31:02,600 –> 00:31:06,400
encampment that had popped up on
this residence called Jumping

596
00:31:06,400 –> 00:31:08,840
Bull Ranch.
And it was a members who were

597
00:31:08,840 –> 00:31:10,880
living there.
Leonard Peltier was one of the

598
00:31:10,880 –> 00:31:13,720
people living there.
And so that was the point.

599
00:31:13,840 –> 00:31:18,240
They wanted a reason to go to
Pine Ridge and do some police

600
00:31:18,240 –> 00:31:22,440
shit, shit, some busting heads,
and they just use this Jimmy

601
00:31:22,440 –> 00:31:25,160
Eagle thing as a pretext to do
it.

602
00:31:25,240 –> 00:31:30,760
And so the next day they show
back up and at approximately

603
00:31:30,800 –> 00:31:35,960
11:50 AM, Williams and Kohler,
they’re wearing plain clothes,

604
00:31:36,120 –> 00:31:38,720
driving 2 separate unmarked
cars.

605
00:31:38,720 –> 00:31:42,840
They’re not obviously FBI by any
stretch of the imagination.

606
00:31:42,920 –> 00:31:46,920
They enter Pine Ridge and at one
point they start following a red

607
00:31:46,920 –> 00:31:50,960
and white pickup truck carrying
Leonard Peltier, Norman Charles

608
00:31:51,160 –> 00:31:53,360
and Joe Stunts.
Three of them stopped their

609
00:31:53,360 –> 00:31:56,160
truck at Jumping Bull Ranch, get
out.

610
00:31:56,400 –> 00:31:59,000
And at that point, a gunfight
ensues.

611
00:31:59,040 –> 00:32:02,840
And it seems like this
confrontation was the point of

612
00:32:03,080 –> 00:32:05,880
the FBI entering Pine Ridge on
that day.

613
00:32:05,880 –> 00:32:07,840
They didn’t want to arrest Jimmy
Eagle.

614
00:32:07,920 –> 00:32:10,680
They wanted a violent
confrontation with Ames so they

615
00:32:10,680 –> 00:32:12,720
could be like, look, we got to
get rid of them.

616
00:32:12,920 –> 00:32:15,160
They’re violent.
And meanwhile, the two agents

617
00:32:15,160 –> 00:32:17,320
shot first.
So these people, they’re

618
00:32:17,320 –> 00:32:20,320
following, there’s two unmarked
vehicles behind them.

619
00:32:20,400 –> 00:32:23,320
There’s no lights, There’s no
sirens, there’s no badges.

620
00:32:23,800 –> 00:32:26,920
They’re just being aggressively
pursued by two cars.

621
00:32:26,920 –> 00:32:29,360
They stop, get out.
They have guns.

622
00:32:29,560 –> 00:32:31,840
But the FBI agents also have
guns.

623
00:32:31,880 –> 00:32:34,120
They get out, they start
shooting first.

624
00:32:34,600 –> 00:32:38,120
A gunfight ensues. 2 FBI agents
are killed.

625
00:32:38,160 –> 00:32:42,320
Those two, Williams and Kohler
and Joe Stunts is killed also.

626
00:32:42,360 –> 00:32:46,360
And there’s an interesting
detail I found, which is that

627
00:32:46,360 –> 00:32:49,240
these two agents apparently
thought they were going to have

628
00:32:49,240 –> 00:32:53,280
a bunch of backup from Bureau of
Indian Affairs police.

629
00:32:53,360 –> 00:32:56,000
And also there was another FBI
agent there.

630
00:32:56,080 –> 00:32:59,720
And for some reason that backup
didn’t act.

631
00:32:59,880 –> 00:33:02,280
They did not enter this
gunfight.

632
00:33:02,400 –> 00:33:06,440
And I feel like there’s only two
possible explanations there.

633
00:33:06,440 –> 00:33:09,360
One, they just thought, well,
two, dead agents would really

634
00:33:09,360 –> 00:33:11,880
fucking sell our case against
AIM.

635
00:33:11,920 –> 00:33:15,560
But also this shoot up that
happened where there’s women and

636
00:33:15,720 –> 00:33:19,360
children, and I wouldn’t be
surprised if that backup was

637
00:33:19,360 –> 00:33:22,800
like, Jesus Christ, they’re just
shooting where all these kids

638
00:33:23,000 –> 00:33:24,520
and women are.
Yeah, I don’t know.

639
00:33:24,520 –> 00:33:26,520
I don’t think they’d have a
problem with that personally,

640
00:33:26,520 –> 00:33:28,880
but that’s also I fully
understand.

641
00:33:28,880 –> 00:33:32,120
That’s just me being kind of
worst case scenario guy.

642
00:33:32,400 –> 00:33:34,760
Yeah, and it’s also me being
best case scenario.

643
00:33:34,880 –> 00:33:38,120
Yeah, my POV is there’s no
question they went on the

644
00:33:38,120 –> 00:33:40,360
reservation to start some shit
with some a members.

645
00:33:40,360 –> 00:33:43,280
And it was the sort of thing
where nobody says the quiet part

646
00:33:43,280 –> 00:33:46,240
out loud, but it’s like, oh, if
we get in a shootout and some

647
00:33:46,360 –> 00:33:49,920
agents get injured, that’s
enough for us to go in full,

648
00:33:50,160 –> 00:33:51,960
right?
And that’s enough for us to

649
00:33:51,960 –> 00:33:54,640
arrest some of these guys and
make examples of the of them.

650
00:33:54,720 –> 00:33:59,720
And it’s a tried and true tactic
of everything from COINTELPRO to

651
00:33:59,720 –> 00:34:03,200
just basic counterinsurgency
where it’s like you put yourself

652
00:34:03,200 –> 00:34:06,040
in a situation where you’re
going to be able to say, hey,

653
00:34:06,040 –> 00:34:08,000
look at what these crazy people
done to us.

654
00:34:08,199 –> 00:34:10,679
We got to do something about it.
And everyone’s like, Yep,

655
00:34:10,679 –> 00:34:14,040
there’s no possibility that this
is happening in 100% of below

656
00:34:14,040 –> 00:34:15,360
board.
There’s no such thing as Black

657
00:34:15,360 –> 00:34:19,679
Flag operations, right, right.
And it’s just so to me, it’s

658
00:34:19,679 –> 00:34:21,760
painfully obvious.
It’s like, yeah, what are they

659
00:34:22,000 –> 00:34:23,600
doing?
They’re literally following

660
00:34:23,600 –> 00:34:27,239
people around in unmarked cars
in communities, in rural areas

661
00:34:27,360 –> 00:34:29,440
and, like, harassing people
constantly.

662
00:34:31,440 –> 00:34:33,280
That shit comes to a head at a
point, right?

663
00:34:33,400 –> 00:34:34,840
Yeah.
If you’re being followed in a

664
00:34:34,960 –> 00:34:38,440
unmarked car for two days and
being harassed by these people

665
00:34:38,440 –> 00:34:41,080
and they jump out of the car and
start shooting at you, everybody

666
00:34:41,080 –> 00:34:42,560
has a gun on the reservation,
man.

667
00:34:42,639 –> 00:34:44,800
And they know that.
And it’s the sort of thing

668
00:34:44,800 –> 00:34:47,560
where, I mean, get into what
happens afterwards.

669
00:34:47,560 –> 00:34:51,080
But it seems painfully obvious
that was a purposeful

670
00:34:51,080 –> 00:34:53,280
incitement.
And that’s absolutely a

671
00:34:53,280 –> 00:34:57,240
COINTELPRO tactic was, you know,
if you can get any sort of

672
00:34:57,240 –> 00:35:01,320
charges filed against people,
anything you can do to make them

673
00:35:01,440 –> 00:35:04,760
look like a problem, you do it.
And it seems like this was just

674
00:35:04,800 –> 00:35:08,960
another attempt to make AIM look
like some especially violent

675
00:35:09,080 –> 00:35:09,960
outfit.
Yeah.

676
00:35:10,160 –> 00:35:13,360
Oh God, yeah.
I remember even in the fucking

677
00:35:13,400 –> 00:35:17,760
80s where there was a contingent
who in Indian Country who were

678
00:35:17,760 –> 00:35:21,120
very much still on the Dick
Wilson side of things, the

679
00:35:21,120 –> 00:35:25,120
progressives were like, they
killed 2 FBI agents.

680
00:35:25,120 –> 00:35:28,080
How dare they do something so
criminal.

681
00:35:28,280 –> 00:35:30,880
And it’s like when people get
really mad at cop gets killed in

682
00:35:30,880 –> 00:35:33,400
a shootout and it’s like a cop
got killed, it’s the end of the

683
00:35:33,400 –> 00:35:35,760
fucking world.
And it’s like context, man,

684
00:35:35,880 –> 00:35:38,920
context.
Like, yeah, it is tragic when a

685
00:35:38,920 –> 00:35:41,080
public serving gets killed in
the line of duty.

686
00:35:41,240 –> 00:35:43,880
And there are tragic cases,
please don’t get me wrong.

687
00:35:44,280 –> 00:35:47,320
But this ain’t that.
No, things are never that

688
00:35:47,480 –> 00:35:51,240
fucking black and white.
Especially fucking Pine Ridge,

689
00:35:51,240 –> 00:35:53,920
Like I’m, I don’t mean to be
like, oh, this is some like

690
00:35:53,920 –> 00:35:55,720
special case, but it is a
special case.

691
00:35:55,800 –> 00:35:58,840
Pine Ridge is still registered
as a fucking prisoner of war

692
00:35:58,840 –> 00:36:00,400
camp according to the US
government.

693
00:36:00,920 –> 00:36:03,680
Jesus, this isn’t another county
or another state.

694
00:36:04,000 –> 00:36:08,400
It is a place that is
institutionalized concentration

695
00:36:08,400 –> 00:36:10,240
camp.
It is a place where people have

696
00:36:10,240 –> 00:36:13,400
been in in prison for the last
150 fucking years.

697
00:36:13,440 –> 00:36:17,320
And it’s this place where
Americans who are not Indians

698
00:36:17,360 –> 00:36:20,000
can go and murder and rape with
impunity because they know the

699
00:36:20,000 –> 00:36:22,120
feds don’t give a fuck because
of all shit like this.

700
00:36:22,360 –> 00:36:25,120
And it’s the same on the other,
your fucking crew or Blackfoot

701
00:36:25,120 –> 00:36:27,480
or any of those reservations to
a degree.

702
00:36:27,480 –> 00:36:31,280
And it’s just frustrating, man,
because I guarantee you people

703
00:36:31,280 –> 00:36:33,840
even listening to this will be
like, well, but did they have to

704
00:36:33,840 –> 00:36:36,080
kill them?
And it’s like, whoa, what were

705
00:36:36,080 –> 00:36:38,440
they hiding?
And to this day, to the point

706
00:36:38,440 –> 00:36:41,840
where let’s skip ahead.
But Leonard Peltier, there’s a

707
00:36:41,840 –> 00:36:44,800
50 year story coming.
Well, and also not to skip

708
00:36:44,800 –> 00:36:48,640
ahead, but people who would ask
that question, do they ever take

709
00:36:48,640 –> 00:36:52,120
into account that the other two
were acquitted and essentially

710
00:36:52,120 –> 00:36:55,960
on self-defense grounds were
essentially why the other two

711
00:36:56,000 –> 00:36:57,280
were acquitted?
Yeah, yeah.

712
00:36:57,320 –> 00:36:59,320
I mean, Oh my God, so
frustrating.

713
00:36:59,440 –> 00:37:02,920
Yeah, that seems like important
context, but we’re getting

714
00:37:02,920 –> 00:37:06,720
ahead.
So a manhunt ensues.

715
00:37:06,800 –> 00:37:11,400
At one point, AIM members Norman
Charles and Michael Anderson,

716
00:37:11,480 –> 00:37:14,800
who was one of the three men who
were picked up the day before

717
00:37:14,800 –> 00:37:17,360
the shooting and questioned
about who was living at that

718
00:37:17,360 –> 00:37:20,000
tent encampment.
They were driving Peltiers

719
00:37:20,000 –> 00:37:24,320
station wagon near Wichita when
the ammunition they were hauling

720
00:37:24,360 –> 00:37:30,240
exploded and Kohler’s three O 8
rifle and an AR15 were found in

721
00:37:30,240 –> 00:37:32,600
the burned remains of the
vehicle.

722
00:37:32,640 –> 00:37:35,800
Peltier was stopped in Oregon
but fled on foot after a brief

723
00:37:35,800 –> 00:37:38,400
shootout.
Kohler’s handgun was found in a

724
00:37:38,400 –> 00:37:40,920
bag with Peltier’s fingerprints
on it.

725
00:37:40,920 –> 00:37:44,800
Do we believe any of that?
I mean from the FBI, No, his

726
00:37:44,800 –> 00:37:47,680
fingerprints were on file and
you can easily place a

727
00:37:47,680 –> 00:37:49,760
fingerprint on something without
having the person there if

728
00:37:49,760 –> 00:37:53,400
you’re the fucking FBI.
Yeah, and it’s just so fucking

729
00:37:53,520 –> 00:37:56,600
convenient.
If you were the person who shot

730
00:37:56,720 –> 00:37:59,920
that FBI agent, why would you
then take his gun and keep it?

731
00:37:59,960 –> 00:38:03,720
That would be right.
Fucking melt that thing down or

732
00:38:03,720 –> 00:38:05,120
something.
Get rid of that.

733
00:38:05,120 –> 00:38:07,240
Throw it in a river.
Yeah, I don’t know anything.

734
00:38:07,320 –> 00:38:11,640
So many rivers in South Dakota.
But Adam, he ran, and only

735
00:38:11,640 –> 00:38:13,920
guilty people run.
Oh that’s a great point.

736
00:38:14,000 –> 00:38:18,040
I didn’t even think about that.
There’s no reason he would run.

737
00:38:18,280 –> 00:38:20,240
If someone came to be like, hey,
these guys are going to come

738
00:38:20,240 –> 00:38:21,720
after you for this, you got to
go.

739
00:38:21,800 –> 00:38:23,520
That catch, that’s impossible.
He ran.

740
00:38:23,520 –> 00:38:25,240
You know all the guilty people
run.

741
00:38:25,440 –> 00:38:28,640
Did he not have faith in the
American justice system to find

742
00:38:28,640 –> 00:38:31,520
him not guilty?
I mean, it’s a constitutional

743
00:38:31,520 –> 00:38:33,880
promise that you get a lawyer
and a fair trial man.

744
00:38:33,880 –> 00:38:37,240
Yeah, it’s a flawless system.
I think he could have just

745
00:38:37,240 –> 00:38:39,600
trusted it, yeah.
Yeah, absolutely, especially at

746
00:38:39,600 –> 00:38:41,640
the federal level.
Oh, 100% yeah.

747
00:38:41,720 –> 00:38:46,080
So Leonard Peltier was finally
arrested in Canada like 6 months

748
00:38:46,160 –> 00:38:48,480
after this happened or so.
Yeah, and.

749
00:38:48,760 –> 00:38:52,000
That’s a common thing, man.
Back then, a lot of people would

750
00:38:52,000 –> 00:38:56,160
run away to Canada to disappear,
including members of my family

751
00:38:56,160 –> 00:38:59,440
who are still there.
And so this is another thing

752
00:38:59,440 –> 00:39:03,840
that tells me that the US
government had such a ridiculous

753
00:39:04,080 –> 00:39:08,440
hard on to get these guys is
it’s rare that Canada would send

754
00:39:08,440 –> 00:39:11,320
back somebody like this.
Like super rare.

755
00:39:11,320 –> 00:39:14,720
I mean, think of all even like
taking a wider view like all the

756
00:39:14,720 –> 00:39:17,360
Vietnam draft authors who are
still up there, like no, those

757
00:39:17,360 –> 00:39:21,360
guys got sent back.
And so this to me is a big red

758
00:39:21,360 –> 00:39:23,080
flag.
They wanted to make a point.

759
00:39:23,160 –> 00:39:27,920
Right, and they end up getting
him extradited using statements

760
00:39:27,920 –> 00:39:31,560
from a woman who lived on Pine
Ridge named Myrtle.

761
00:39:31,560 –> 00:39:34,280
Poor Bear and Zach.
You’re not going to believe

762
00:39:34,280 –> 00:39:38,720
this, but her statements seem
like they were maybe, probably,

763
00:39:38,720 –> 00:39:42,760
definitely, absolutely coerced
by the FBI.

764
00:39:43,080 –> 00:39:44,640
Shocking, I know.
Shocking.

765
00:39:44,680 –> 00:39:48,480
I think the first documented
incident of the FBI coercing a

766
00:39:48,480 –> 00:39:50,000
statement out of someone.
Probably.

767
00:39:50,080 –> 00:39:53,680
Yeah, again, like under duress,
under harassment.

768
00:39:53,680 –> 00:39:56,000
No, no, no.
I mean, whatever she said must

769
00:39:56,000 –> 00:40:00,280
have been 100% factual.
There’s no way the FBI, again,

770
00:40:00,320 –> 00:40:03,320
would harass someone into saying
what they wanted and force them

771
00:40:03,320 –> 00:40:05,080
to sign a piece of paper to
that.

772
00:40:06,280 –> 00:40:08,880
I mean, that’s just seems out
it’s way, way out of line.

773
00:40:09,080 –> 00:40:12,680
They told her they had photos of
her running from the scene of

774
00:40:12,680 –> 00:40:15,760
the shooting and that they were
going to charge her for being

775
00:40:15,760 –> 00:40:19,080
involved in it and that she
would lose her kids as a result.

776
00:40:19,080 –> 00:40:23,280
Question yeah, who was calm and
collected enough to be taking

777
00:40:23,280 –> 00:40:27,760
photos at the scene during the
shooting to identify people

778
00:40:27,760 –> 00:40:31,960
running away, but not who was
shooting the fucking FBI agents?

779
00:40:32,120 –> 00:40:34,480
Yeah, what the fuck?
I didn’t even think about that.

780
00:40:34,840 –> 00:40:37,360
Sorry, can I have checked, your
honor?

781
00:40:38,600 –> 00:40:40,600
I mean it’s like what is
happening?

782
00:40:40,920 –> 00:40:43,280
Yeah, where did the pictures
come from?

783
00:40:43,520 –> 00:40:46,040
So many questions.
Who’s the photographer?

784
00:40:46,120 –> 00:40:48,440
Yeah.
What else is on that role of?

785
00:40:49,000 –> 00:40:51,800
Myrtle Poor Bear said this.
The first time I ever met the

786
00:40:51,800 –> 00:40:54,680
FBI agents was at the school.
That’s when they came down and

787
00:40:54,680 –> 00:40:57,640
told me that I was involved in a
shootout and they had photos of

788
00:40:57,640 –> 00:40:59,440
me running and doing this and
that.

789
00:40:59,480 –> 00:41:02,000
Then they started threatening me
about my daughter.

790
00:41:02,040 –> 00:41:04,080
They said that they were going
to take her away from me and

791
00:41:04,080 –> 00:41:06,080
that I wasn’t ever going to see
her again.

792
00:41:06,080 –> 00:41:07,720
And I had to cooperate with
them.

793
00:41:07,840 –> 00:41:11,280
And I started and they say,
well, you’re going to say this

794
00:41:11,280 –> 00:41:12,560
and we’re going to make you say
it.

795
00:41:12,600 –> 00:41:14,920
And if you don’t say it, then
you’re not going to see your

796
00:41:14,920 –> 00:41:16,600
daughter anymore.
End Quote.

797
00:41:16,640 –> 00:41:20,800
That was Myrtle Poor Bear in the
incident at Oglala documentary

798
00:41:20,880 –> 00:41:23,640
and it’s also mentioned in that
documentary.

799
00:41:23,640 –> 00:41:27,800
She gave one affidavit initially
and then as if by magic four

800
00:41:27,800 –> 00:41:30,920
days later gives another one
that is completely identical

801
00:41:30,920 –> 00:41:33,800
except there was one sentence in
the original 1 where she said

802
00:41:33,800 –> 00:41:36,160
she was not present when the
shooting happened.

803
00:41:36,320 –> 00:41:39,480
In the second affidavit that
sentence was changed to I was

804
00:41:39,480 –> 00:41:43,280
there, I’m Leonard Peltier’s
girlfriend and I saw him shoot

805
00:41:43,280 –> 00:41:46,120
FBI agents.
Even the part about her being

806
00:41:46,120 –> 00:41:49,240
his girlfriend was a lie.
Yeah, that’s just like, insane,

807
00:41:49,320 –> 00:41:51,960
I say.
Welcome to the fucking machine,

808
00:41:51,960 –> 00:41:54,080
man.
She also mentioned that they,

809
00:41:54,080 –> 00:41:59,920
during her interrogation, showed
her pictures of the dead body of

810
00:42:00,040 –> 00:42:02,600
activist Annie Mae.
A quash.

811
00:42:02,720 –> 00:42:05,760
And they were like, this could
be you if you keep acting up.

812
00:42:05,800 –> 00:42:09,560
Yeah, I mean, and again, this is
already the 70s, but these are

813
00:42:09,640 –> 00:42:13,640
cry tested and true tactics from
Colonel Pro in the Black Panther

814
00:42:13,640 –> 00:42:16,600
community in the 60s.
Yeah, they did all this shit and

815
00:42:16,600 –> 00:42:19,400
did it well enough that it
almost, But I mean, it did

816
00:42:19,720 –> 00:42:22,440
destroy that movement to the
point where, you know, for a lot

817
00:42:22,440 –> 00:42:24,680
of people, it’s still like
nobody even knows who the fuck

818
00:42:24,680 –> 00:42:28,040
Frank Hampton is.
Yeah, like, outside of a very

819
00:42:28,120 –> 00:42:31,040
small niche of that community,
which is super depressing of how

820
00:42:31,040 –> 00:42:33,400
successful this shit is.
So by the time they’re doing

821
00:42:33,400 –> 00:42:35,600
this in the mid 70s, this is old
hand.

822
00:42:35,720 –> 00:42:37,640
They know it’s going to work.
Yeah, they have it down to a

823
00:42:37,640 –> 00:42:40,840
science by this point.
It’s sad men too, because I

824
00:42:40,840 –> 00:42:43,800
mean, again, I’m not trying to
speak for everyone, but I know

825
00:42:43,800 –> 00:42:46,560
these people and I grew up with
these people.

826
00:42:46,560 –> 00:42:48,960
These people are literally
members of my family, not these

827
00:42:48,960 –> 00:42:52,440
specific people.
But like the lack of education

828
00:42:52,720 –> 00:42:56,360
that these people received back
then and to this day makes them

829
00:42:56,400 –> 00:42:59,000
such easy targets for
manipulation like this.

830
00:42:59,000 –> 00:43:01,520
And I’m not saying that these
people are stupid or have low

831
00:43:01,520 –> 00:43:03,120
intelligence or anything like
that.

832
00:43:03,120 –> 00:43:05,200
I’m saying they weren’t given a
fucking education.

833
00:43:05,560 –> 00:43:09,960
And then or they’re put into
situations where a often white

834
00:43:10,000 –> 00:43:12,800
fucking person of authority
comes in and is like, hey, this

835
00:43:12,800 –> 00:43:15,680
is how it’s going to go.
And there’s no way to fight

836
00:43:15,760 –> 00:43:17,720
right back if you’re not even
fucking educated.

837
00:43:17,960 –> 00:43:21,120
Yeah, in the 1st place.
It’s just, it’s on top of, on

838
00:43:21,120 –> 00:43:23,560
top of on top of, you know, And
it’s no excuse, but it just

839
00:43:23,560 –> 00:43:26,240
makes the FBI’s job even easier.
Yeah.

840
00:43:26,360 –> 00:43:30,560
And then you get to add another
layer to that with the story of

841
00:43:30,560 –> 00:43:32,200
Norman Brown.
Right, exactly.

842
00:43:32,320 –> 00:43:36,760
He was an AIM member who the FBI
pulled a similar stunt to

843
00:43:36,920 –> 00:43:40,160
convince him to say he saw
Peltier and the other two shoot

844
00:43:40,160 –> 00:43:41,680
these agents.
This is a quote.

845
00:43:41,720 –> 00:43:44,600
They kept coming to a point
where who killed the agents?

846
00:43:44,640 –> 00:43:47,560
We know you know who killed him.
We know you saw Leonard, Bob and

847
00:43:47,560 –> 00:43:49,880
Daryl, and they kept going on
and on.

848
00:43:50,120 –> 00:43:52,600
I had two counts of first degree
murder against me.

849
00:43:52,800 –> 00:43:55,120
So being there by myself, no
choice.

850
00:43:55,400 –> 00:43:58,360
I sort of went along with them,
you know, and it’s wrong because

851
00:43:58,360 –> 00:44:00,400
it wasn’t true.
That’s Norman Brown in the

852
00:44:00,400 –> 00:44:02,480
Oglala documentary Important
Detail.

853
00:44:02,760 –> 00:44:05,200
He was 15 at the time.
Yeah, he’s a kid.

854
00:44:05,480 –> 00:44:09,000
Yeah, he’s a kid who?
He’s a kid who probably lived a

855
00:44:09,080 –> 00:44:12,000
very, very close to the bone
life as well.

856
00:44:12,200 –> 00:44:15,520
Yeah, you know, very.
And I mean, it’s just kind of,

857
00:44:15,520 –> 00:44:17,880
it’s just disgusting.
It is.

858
00:44:18,240 –> 00:44:21,480
And then there’s Wish Draper,
one of the three men who were

859
00:44:21,760 –> 00:44:24,240
picked up and questioned about
the tent encampment the day

860
00:44:24,240 –> 00:44:27,680
before the shooting. 2 FBI
agents James Doyle and Charles

861
00:44:27,680 –> 00:44:31,720
Stapleton strapped him to a
chair for three hours in his

862
00:44:31,720 –> 00:44:36,000
cell, and as if by magic, he
eventually gave a statement that

863
00:44:36,000 –> 00:44:40,040
he had seen Leonard Peltier,
Robert Robideau, and Darryl

864
00:44:40,040 –> 00:44:44,840
Butler kill FBI agents.
Yeah, I mean, again, sort of, I

865
00:44:44,840 –> 00:44:48,280
think, I don’t mean to repeat
myself, but I think I said this

866
00:44:48,280 –> 00:44:49,920
up top or maybe when we were
talking before.

867
00:44:49,920 –> 00:44:52,880
But all of this, if you’re from
Indian Country and you see a lot

868
00:44:52,880 –> 00:44:56,200
of the shit that happens now
outside of Indian Country and

869
00:44:56,200 –> 00:45:00,040
the disgustingness of ICE
prisons or, or just what we did

870
00:45:00,040 –> 00:45:02,120
in Iraq with prisoners and shit
like that.

871
00:45:02,120 –> 00:45:05,240
And it’s like, it’s all happened
to us before.

872
00:45:05,240 –> 00:45:07,000
And then you see it start
happening outside the

873
00:45:07,000 –> 00:45:08,640
reservation.
You’re sort of like, well,

874
00:45:08,640 –> 00:45:12,640
welcome to the reservation, man.
It’s cold in here, but we can

875
00:45:12,640 –> 00:45:15,400
all swaddle together maybe.
But also it’s like, what the

876
00:45:15,400 –> 00:45:17,040
fuck is wrong with Americans,
man?

877
00:45:17,040 –> 00:45:19,560
What the fuck is wrong with
white Americans where they’re

878
00:45:19,560 –> 00:45:22,800
just like or in power?
Americans don’t necessarily have

879
00:45:22,800 –> 00:45:26,840
to be white where this is just
like this level of torture and

880
00:45:26,880 –> 00:45:30,560
inhumanity and just like what
fucking end even at this point?

881
00:45:30,840 –> 00:45:35,000
And it’s why I get so frustrated
with the oh, I don’t believe

882
00:45:35,000 –> 00:45:39,640
conspiracy theories crowd.
We have so many centuries of

883
00:45:39,640 –> 00:45:43,320
history to show what this
American government is like and

884
00:45:43,320 –> 00:45:47,440
how they treat people who aren’t
in the class that they prefer.

885
00:45:47,480 –> 00:45:51,400
It’s our whole fucking history.
But every time you’ll get these

886
00:45:51,400 –> 00:45:53,520
people who are like, oh, the
government wouldn’t do that.

887
00:45:53,520 –> 00:45:56,400
They fucking would.
They just haven’t done it to you

888
00:45:56,520 –> 00:45:58,560
yet, right?
That’s all it is, right?

889
00:45:58,880 –> 00:46:02,320
And they’re really trying to
change that right now.

890
00:46:02,400 –> 00:46:04,400
Yeah, they’re coming.
Don’t worry, They’re coming.

891
00:46:05,040 –> 00:46:07,240
They’ll get to you, don’t worry.
It’s sort of it just, yeah, like

892
00:46:07,240 –> 00:46:10,000
I said, for me, man, it’s the
sort of thing where I’ve got to

893
00:46:10,000 –> 00:46:13,200
a part of my life where this
doesn’t bring me down as much

894
00:46:13,200 –> 00:46:15,960
anymore, where I used to sort of
get caught up in the emotion of

895
00:46:15,960 –> 00:46:18,800
it and let it kind of make me
very depressed and things like

896
00:46:18,800 –> 00:46:20,480
that.
It’s kind of come to a point

897
00:46:20,480 –> 00:46:24,160
where this is a reality.
And in the acceptance of that

898
00:46:24,160 –> 00:46:27,120
reality, there’s a bit of
freedom in that.

899
00:46:27,280 –> 00:46:29,480
It’s more important that people
know so this, so they know

900
00:46:29,480 –> 00:46:33,640
what’s coming and then sort of
wallowing in the ship because it

901
00:46:33,640 –> 00:46:36,320
is becoming a more and more
shared experience.

902
00:46:36,680 –> 00:46:40,400
Very disgustingly, very sadly,
that is not what my intention

903
00:46:40,400 –> 00:46:43,560
is, but it is the sort of thing
where, not to derail this, but

904
00:46:43,680 –> 00:46:46,320
there’s a reason most of the
faces you see being deported

905
00:46:46,320 –> 00:46:48,960
from this country from all the
way back the Clinton years were

906
00:46:48,960 –> 00:46:51,640
indigenous faces from Central
and South America.

907
00:46:51,920 –> 00:46:54,520
They weren’t the white ones.
You know what I mean?

908
00:46:54,840 –> 00:46:57,000
Anna Diarmus isn’t getting
fucking sent back to Cuba

909
00:46:57,000 –> 00:46:58,560
because she’s Spanish.
Right.

910
00:46:58,960 –> 00:47:00,240
Right.
Let’s be real here.

911
00:47:00,280 –> 00:47:03,880
Even with a place like
Venezuela, we don’t hate the

912
00:47:03,880 –> 00:47:06,080
entire government.
No, there’s white people.

913
00:47:06,120 –> 00:47:10,040
There Venezuela we just prefer
the one that ruled before Chavez

914
00:47:10,040 –> 00:47:12,040
that was all white dudes.
Yeah, yeah.

915
00:47:12,040 –> 00:47:14,200
And then an indigenous guy got
elected and all.

916
00:47:15,280 –> 00:47:17,320
We were not happy.
I mean, look at how we treat

917
00:47:17,320 –> 00:47:19,480
Argentina, man.
That is a white South American

918
00:47:19,480 –> 00:47:22,360
country, largely Spanish.
There’s indigenous people there

919
00:47:22,360 –> 00:47:25,080
who got genocided and live as
second class citizens.

920
00:47:25,240 –> 00:47:28,200
Don’t know they exist but hey,
Argentina’s cool right?

921
00:47:28,880 –> 00:47:30,880
Sort of thing Where?
You know, World Cup, man, how

922
00:47:30,880 –> 00:47:33,280
bad can they be?
Yeah, again, I don’t need to

923
00:47:33,280 –> 00:47:36,520
derail, but it’s sort of the
whole like if you even if you go

924
00:47:36,520 –> 00:47:40,480
back to what is it the Greece or
act in the 1850s where the

925
00:47:40,760 –> 00:47:43,880
actual words of that was Spanish
Indians.

926
00:47:43,920 –> 00:47:46,640
It was like Indians who happened
to speak Spanish that were part

927
00:47:46,640 –> 00:47:50,600
of getting Mexico those all, you
know, California, Utah, Mexico,

928
00:47:50,600 –> 00:47:53,880
Arizona, the Guadalupe Act that
gave Mexican citizens US

929
00:47:53,880 –> 00:47:55,360
citizenship in those
territories.

930
00:47:55,360 –> 00:47:57,320
And Americans were like, whoa,
whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

931
00:47:57,720 –> 00:48:00,840
Yeah, we’ll do that on paper.
But anybody who’s indigenous,

932
00:48:00,840 –> 00:48:02,880
we’re going to kill them all.
Yeah.

933
00:48:03,240 –> 00:48:07,160
And that is, I mean, dude, that
is what echoes in the 1950s with

934
00:48:07,320 –> 00:48:10,040
Operation Wetback and Dodger
Stadium and the Mexican

935
00:48:10,040 –> 00:48:12,080
Americans who were sent to
fucking Mexico, who had never

936
00:48:12,080 –> 00:48:14,680
even been there before.
And what happened with Operation

937
00:48:14,680 –> 00:48:15,760
Gatekeeper, with fucking
Clinton.

938
00:48:15,760 –> 00:48:18,400
And what’s happening right now
with whatever this is going to

939
00:48:18,400 –> 00:48:21,480
be called, whatever the era were
in, It’s so frustrating because

940
00:48:21,480 –> 00:48:23,840
it’s the same thing over and
over and over again.

941
00:48:23,960 –> 00:48:26,240
And it’s like, what?
Like what the fuck?

942
00:48:26,560 –> 00:48:28,800
I’m sorry, I’m frustrated.
It’s just like, when is it ever

943
00:48:28,800 –> 00:48:31,320
going to fucking end?
It’s just never going, man.

944
00:48:31,360 –> 00:48:33,960
And it’s like I don’t.
And again, going back to my

945
00:48:33,960 –> 00:48:38,280
point of that used to really get
me in a point where it was hard

946
00:48:38,280 –> 00:48:40,480
to function, but now it’s just
like WellCare more about

947
00:48:40,480 –> 00:48:43,240
protecting people now than
anything else.

948
00:48:43,240 –> 00:48:45,720
And I think that’s what a
movement has to be, is about.

949
00:48:45,920 –> 00:48:47,720
We got to get back to protecting
people.

950
00:48:48,680 –> 00:48:51,120
But sorry for no, no, right
there.

951
00:48:51,440 –> 00:48:53,200
No, you’re fine.
So people aren’t going to

952
00:48:53,200 –> 00:48:56,240
believe this, but Leonard
Heldzier’s trial was not the

953
00:48:56,240 –> 00:48:57,720
fairest.
You don’t say.

954
00:48:58,040 –> 00:49:00,160
Was there a kangaroo involved?
Maybe.

955
00:49:01,480 –> 00:49:05,160
And it’s important to consider
by this point the other two had

956
00:49:05,160 –> 00:49:10,680
already been acquitted.
So now, and that’s where Leonard

957
00:49:10,680 –> 00:49:14,680
Peltier kind of fucked himself
by fleeing to Canada because

958
00:49:14,680 –> 00:49:17,720
they wanted to try the three of
them together.

959
00:49:17,840 –> 00:49:19,440
So if he.
Been there.

960
00:49:20,000 –> 00:49:22,760
He probably would have been
acquitted because the

961
00:49:22,760 –> 00:49:26,800
government, the first time when
they tried those two, they were

962
00:49:26,800 –> 00:49:29,640
trying to convict them just
based on the fact that they were

963
00:49:29,640 –> 00:49:33,040
there.
And a fucking all white jury in

964
00:49:33,160 –> 00:49:37,400
Iowa was like, Nah, you got to
do better than that.

965
00:49:37,440 –> 00:49:41,720
So then they get to try Leonard
Peltier separate and they just

966
00:49:41,800 –> 00:49:44,160
straight up say, no, he was the
murderer.

967
00:49:44,160 –> 00:49:47,200
Here are your witnesses who say
he was the murderer.

968
00:49:47,440 –> 00:49:50,480
One of the craziest fucking
twists to me.

969
00:49:50,600 –> 00:49:54,040
Myrtle Poor Bear was not allowed
to be called as a defense

970
00:49:54,040 –> 00:49:57,360
witness on the grounds that her
testimony could be highly

971
00:49:57,360 –> 00:49:59,280
prejudicial to the federal
government.

972
00:49:59,720 –> 00:50:01,400
What?
That’s what that’s how it’s

973
00:50:01,400 –> 00:50:04,200
supposed to work.
Someone is supposed to come in

974
00:50:04,200 –> 00:50:06,040
and say, no, actually this is
what happened.

975
00:50:06,080 –> 00:50:08,880
And this judge was like, Nah,
you might change the jury’s mind

976
00:50:08,880 –> 00:50:11,000
if you testify.
It’s literally saying the quiet

977
00:50:11,000 –> 00:50:13,000
part out loud.
Yeah, come on, guys.

978
00:50:13,000 –> 00:50:16,040
But you can’t be that obvious.
Yeah, if we let her testify, the

979
00:50:16,040 –> 00:50:18,600
defense might win.
We can’t have that, obviously.

980
00:50:19,400 –> 00:50:21,080
Somebody’s got to go to prison
for this.

981
00:50:21,120 –> 00:50:25,120
And it was very much that also,
if you watch the Oglala

982
00:50:25,120 –> 00:50:29,360
documentary, they talked to some
of the jurors and at one point

983
00:50:29,360 –> 00:50:33,520
they show the autopsy photos and
the crime scene photos of these

984
00:50:33,520 –> 00:50:35,520
two agents.
And there’s this juror who was

985
00:50:35,520 –> 00:50:38,040
like, we just knew at that point
someone had to pay for this.

986
00:50:38,120 –> 00:50:41,320
Yeah, there it is.
And Leonard Peltier was the only

987
00:50:41,320 –> 00:50:42,520
one who could pay for it.
He was.

988
00:50:42,600 –> 00:50:45,880
He’s the only one on trial, so
he ended up getting convicted.

989
00:50:45,880 –> 00:50:50,840
The defense was deprived of
evidence that probably would

990
00:50:50,840 –> 00:50:54,040
have cleared him.
There was a telegram from an FBI

991
00:50:54,040 –> 00:50:58,680
Ballistics expert stating that
the rifle that was used to kill

992
00:50:58,680 –> 00:51:02,920
this FBI agent had a different
firing pin than the rifle

993
00:51:02,920 –> 00:51:05,120
Leonard Peltier had.
So a different gun.

994
00:51:05,480 –> 00:51:08,160
Different gun.
There was even some evidence

995
00:51:08,160 –> 00:51:11,760
that suggested Kohler didn’t
even die from the same kind of

996
00:51:11,760 –> 00:51:14,640
slug.
Like it wasn’t even a 223 slug

997
00:51:15,000 –> 00:51:16,400
at all.
Right, right.

998
00:51:16,880 –> 00:51:21,480
Also, Michael Anderson, who we
mentioned earlier, one of the

999
00:51:21,600 –> 00:51:24,160
three who was picked up the day
before and questioned about the

1000
00:51:24,160 –> 00:51:28,560
tent encampment, he was the star
witness against Leonard Peltier.

1001
00:51:28,600 –> 00:51:32,720
He testified in exchange for
having charges against him

1002
00:51:32,960 –> 00:51:36,920
dropped in relation to that car
explosion that happened where

1003
00:51:36,920 –> 00:51:39,640
they found the gun.
I didn’t know that.

1004
00:51:39,680 –> 00:51:41,160
I forgot that part.
Yeah, that’s interesting.

1005
00:51:41,280 –> 00:51:44,600
And there are witnesses in that
Oglala documentary who are like,

1006
00:51:44,680 –> 00:51:48,360
he was fucking folding clothes
with us when all of that

1007
00:51:48,360 –> 00:51:49,680
happened.
He didn’t see shit.

1008
00:51:49,920 –> 00:51:53,520
But the FBI fucking pulled him
aside and was like, you want to

1009
00:51:53,520 –> 00:51:57,400
go to prison forever if not
testify against Leonard Peltier?

1010
00:51:57,480 –> 00:52:01,040
And it fucking worked.
He ended up sentenced to two

1011
00:52:01,040 –> 00:52:05,320
consecutive life sentences,
served nearly 50 years in

1012
00:52:05,320 –> 00:52:08,600
prison, released by Biden in
2025.

1013
00:52:08,640 –> 00:52:13,560
And I am Lord that Trump did not
try to do anything to undo that

1014
00:52:13,560 –> 00:52:15,120
I.
Think it’s because he didn’t

1015
00:52:15,120 –> 00:52:17,040
pardon him, he just released
him.

1016
00:52:17,840 –> 00:52:19,080
I think that’s the key
difference.

1017
00:52:19,120 –> 00:52:22,920
I 100% believe what you just
said would be true in that.

1018
00:52:22,920 –> 00:52:27,280
I remember so vividly and my
friend and my best friends in DC

1019
00:52:27,280 –> 00:52:29,640
just brought this up and we had
lunch the other day because we

1020
00:52:29,640 –> 00:52:32,280
were talking about Leonard
Peltier finally being released

1021
00:52:32,280 –> 00:52:34,840
from prison.
I was in Richmond, VA during the

1022
00:52:34,840 –> 00:52:38,240
last day of Clinton’s presidency
and I remember I wouldn’t let us

1023
00:52:38,240 –> 00:52:42,160
go out to the bars in Richmond
until midnight because I was

1024
00:52:42,160 –> 00:52:45,560
sure that Clinton was going to
finally pardon Peltier because

1025
00:52:45,560 –> 00:52:48,840
it was a huge story of will he
finally be pardoned by Clinton?

1026
00:52:48,840 –> 00:52:51,480
And I remember sitting there at
12 O1 and it was like, he’s no

1027
00:52:51,480 –> 00:52:53,480
longer president.
Bush is officially president in

1028
00:52:53,480 –> 00:52:56,280
January, whatever day it was
2001, dude.

1029
00:52:56,280 –> 00:52:58,720
I was so bummed.
I was just like, I can’t fucking

1030
00:52:58,720 –> 00:53:01,920
believe this is still going on.
And that was in 2001.

1031
00:53:02,040 –> 00:53:06,280
Man, this is. 24 years ago.
Yeah.

1032
00:53:06,440 –> 00:53:10,400
And so it was funny because it’s
something that is my entire life

1033
00:53:10,400 –> 00:53:15,520
has been, the story has been
part of the ether around people

1034
00:53:15,520 –> 00:53:17,960
on my dad’s side of the family,
and it’s crazy to think that

1035
00:53:17,960 –> 00:53:22,080
it’s still an active story.
Yeah, fucking crazy.

1036
00:53:22,360 –> 00:53:24,120
Well this is also part of the
auto pen thing.

1037
00:53:24,120 –> 00:53:25,960
Like they want to reverse all
this shit because of the

1038
00:53:26,200 –> 00:53:29,560
whatever the auto pen.
I have not really taken time to

1039
00:53:29,640 –> 00:53:32,000
dive deeply in it because it’s
probably all bullshit anyway,

1040
00:53:32,160 –> 00:53:35,280
but if they’re successful for
that, this will reverse Pelty or

1041
00:53:35,280 –> 00:53:37,960
getting let out of prison.
Jesus, that is nuts.

1042
00:53:38,080 –> 00:53:41,040
Yeah, and it’s still like, just
let the man fucking die in

1043
00:53:41,040 –> 00:53:42,080
peace.
Yeah.

1044
00:53:42,280 –> 00:53:46,400
I mean, there’s also, there’s so
much more to a story, like he’s

1045
00:53:46,400 –> 00:53:49,480
written books from prison and
there’s interviews with him.

1046
00:53:49,480 –> 00:53:51,040
Like, people can go look all
this stuff up.

1047
00:53:51,040 –> 00:53:52,840
But, you know, he was a
political prisoner for 50

1048
00:53:52,840 –> 00:53:55,280
fucking years.
Yeah, absolutely. the United

1049
00:53:55,280 –> 00:53:56,840
States has political prisoners,
guys.

1050
00:53:56,840 –> 00:53:58,600
Always have, always will.
Yep.

1051
00:53:58,680 –> 00:54:01,320
Look up Mia Abu Jamal.
Exactly.

1052
00:54:01,320 –> 00:54:04,280
And it’s if the feds don’t kill
you in your bed after they drip

1053
00:54:04,280 –> 00:54:07,240
you up, they’ll put you in
prison forever on trumped up

1054
00:54:07,240 –> 00:54:09,600
kangaroo court charges.
They will find a way.

1055
00:54:09,640 –> 00:54:13,120
And to me, and this is something
my father instilled in me, it’s

1056
00:54:13,120 –> 00:54:15,520
like they will eventually come
for everyone.

1057
00:54:15,520 –> 00:54:17,520
Do you think you’re safe?
No, you’re not.

1058
00:54:17,600 –> 00:54:18,880
They’ll eventually come for you,
too.

1059
00:54:18,880 –> 00:54:21,800
Welcome to 2025.
Yeah, it’s a good way to put it.

1060
00:54:22,320 –> 00:54:24,440
So I think that’s our episode.
We did it.

1061
00:54:24,560 –> 00:54:28,160
Zach, thank you so much.
This was a fantastic episode.

1062
00:54:28,160 –> 00:54:31,040
I appreciate you doing it.
I appreciate the invitation and

1063
00:54:31,040 –> 00:54:34,040
I I apologize if I got a little
too ranty there in the middle.

1064
00:54:34,320 –> 00:54:37,400
No, no, I mean, I that’s why I
wanted you on this episode.

1065
00:54:37,400 –> 00:54:40,360
I wanted someone who would have
strong feelings about.

1066
00:54:40,360 –> 00:54:42,920
This yeah.
And just to sort of one last

1067
00:54:42,920 –> 00:54:45,560
thing and I’ll say goodbye.
I don’t speak for everybody in

1068
00:54:45,560 –> 00:54:48,720
Indian Country men like this is
just my opinions from my

1069
00:54:48,720 –> 00:54:52,120
background, from my people.
Like I’m not here to be like.

1070
00:54:52,120 –> 00:54:54,960
Oh, we all think like this, or
we all experience this at all?

1071
00:54:55,200 –> 00:54:57,200
What is the fucking stupid line
people used to say?

1072
00:54:57,200 –> 00:55:01,240
The opinions are my own and
don’t represent the podcast

1073
00:55:01,240 –> 00:55:02,880
empire of Adam Todd Brown.
Yeah.

1074
00:55:03,320 –> 00:55:05,120
Well, I appreciate it.
Thank you so much.

1075
00:55:05,440 –> 00:55:07,200
I appreciate you too dude, I
truly do.

1076
00:55:07,560 –> 00:55:10,000
Do you have anything to plug
before we get out of here?

1077
00:55:10,480 –> 00:55:12,360
No, not on this.
Yeah, it.

1078
00:55:13,200 –> 00:55:16,120
Feels like the appropriate time
to plug some shit.

1079
00:55:16,360 –> 00:55:19,680
Yeah, I mean, you can probably
find me through Adam if you want

1080
00:55:19,680 –> 00:55:21,440
to, or listen to other episodes
I’ve been on.

1081
00:55:21,440 –> 00:55:24,920
But yeah, this, this is just my
thing to plug is protect the

1082
00:55:24,920 –> 00:55:27,840
people in your community.
Protect your people around you.

1083
00:55:27,960 –> 00:55:30,800
You need people need protecting
right now, so do what you can

1084
00:55:30,800 –> 00:55:34,120
within reason to protect them.
And I think that’s a good place

1085
00:55:34,120 –> 00:55:35,880
to end.
Zach, thank you so much.

1086
00:55:35,880 –> 00:55:37,560
We tell the people goodbye.
Goodbye.

1087
00:55:37,960 –> 00:55:39,200
Goodbye everybody, we love you.