Conspiracy! The Show 370: An Interview With John Hinckley Jr.

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I.
Hey everybody, welcome to

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Conspiracy the Show.
I am your host Adam Todd Brown

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and oh boy, do we have a very
special episode for you today.

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In just a few moments, you will
listen to myself, Connor

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Mcspadden and Jeff May talking
to John Hinckley.

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Junior, I know what you’re
thinking, that John Hinckley

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Junior, the guy who shot Ronald
Reagan, Yep, that is the one.

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I am as surprised as you are
that this is happening.

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John is making the rounds on the
podcast circuit lately in the

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name of promoting his new book,
John Hinckley Junior Who I

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Really Am, which he Co wrote
with author Jason Norman who

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also surprised, joins us briefly
during the interview.

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Aside from trimming the dead air
between words, the interview is

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completely unedited.
So it’s a little sloppy in

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parts, but unedited seemed like
the right move here.

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Also, just to be clear, us
interviewing John Hinckley

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junior on this episode should in
no way, shape or form be taken

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as an endorsement of what he
did.

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I don’t always have the most
complimentary things to say

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about the various presidents of
the United States.

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But if you’ve listened to this
podcast long enough, you’ve

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heard me say several times that
assassination is not how you

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want your government regime to
change.

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And in the case of Reagan, it
wouldn’t have changed a thing

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about the direction the country
went in after that point.

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It would have just been George
Bush at the helm while the CIA

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did all the same wild shit they
did in the 80s under Reagan.

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So again, I don’t support what
John Hinckley Junior did morally

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or as a tactic for bringing
about change, but I’ll be damned

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if I was going to pass on the
opportunity to talk to him for

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this podcast.
Unfortunately, we weren’t able

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to keep John on for as long as
we’d hoped to, but I think we

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managed to get some decent
questions in.

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One thing you’ll hear when you
listen to this interview is that

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John Hinckley Junior is a man
who, above all else, just wants

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to get in front of a room full
of people and play them some

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songs on his guitar.
To that end, if you check the

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episode description, you’ll find
links to where you can listen to

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John’s music and by the book.
And hey, you should do both.

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And now with all of that out of
the way, let’s get to our

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interview with author Jason
Norman and John Hinckley Junior.

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So as promised, up top in the
intro, myself, Connor Mcspad, my

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Co host Jeff May, our special
guest.

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We are talking to a very, very
special guest on this week’s

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episode, John Hinckley Junior.
Thank you so much for being

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here.
How’s it going, man?

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It’s going very well.
How are you all doing?

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We’re good.
Pretty great, pretty great.

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Just finished, just finished
reading the book.

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Man, it was it’s pretty
interesting.

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Good.
Yeah, it’s, it’s a, it’s a

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fascinating read.
What do you want people to know

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about the book right up top
before we get into our questions

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about it?
I just think if if you read the

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book, you see the way that I
really AM and then I’m probably

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not the person that you thought
I was.

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There’s there’s been a real
negative image of me for so many

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years and I wanted to, I want to
tell my life story from my point

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of view and hopefully that comes
out in the book.

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Sorry we had already started.
Jason Norman, you are the

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co-author of the book.
Thank you also for joining us.

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Thank you.
Yeah, I didn’t.

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I didn’t know anyone else was
joining us.

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Sorry about that.
So get out.

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No, just kidding.
We’re happy to have you on here.

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How did you guys connect by the
way?

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I think it was over Facebook or
X Twitter, whatever that thing

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is you’re called.
Twitter on here.

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Yeah, we we tend to call it
Twitter mostly.

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What, what happened was Jason,
Jason kind of contacted me out

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of the blue and asked me if I
wanted to collaborate on a, on a

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book, on a memoir.
And I hadn’t really been

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thinking about that.
But after thinking about it for

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a little bit, I, I decided to go
ahead and do it.

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That was back in February.
So the book just came out

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December 9th.
Yeah, I, I saw that and I know,

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Pete, you said you promote it.
Is it exclusively available

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through Amazon?
Is that right?

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Well.
Mainly Amazon, I mean any, any

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bookstore that wants to get it
can can get it.

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I mean, but the best way to get
it now is just through Amazon.

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Have have you all found
distribution difficult because

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of the subject matter at all?
Not since we started doing this.

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It’s been, it’s been better
since we started publicizing it.

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When it first came out, it was
slow and then we started doing

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things like this and that upped
the sales.

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Did you get any pushback from
the government about this?

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Was there any questions about,
you know, this being you

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profiting off of, you know, the,
the crime that you committed or

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anything like that?
Not that I’m aware of.

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Not from the government.
I mean, people have been bad

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mouthing us on social media up
to a point, but no one, no one

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in any official capacity has
ever expressed a problem.

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They’re they’re Reagan fans, you
know, don’t worry about them too

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much.
Well, interestingly enough, I

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mean Reagan, from the minute
this happened, Reagan was

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preaching forgiveness of John
and tried to meet him at some

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point.
This was actually, this has gone

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over in the book that he he
wanted to meet John personally

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and Reagan’s son.
I’m not sure if it was Ron

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Junior or which one spoke out in
favor of John being released.

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Now, Reagan’s daughter is still
against that.

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She’s has always been against
it.

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But but yeah, Reagan’s
forgiveness was a big, was a big

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step towards towards not
painting John out to be, you

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know, a complete villain.
I think that we should start

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campaign on this show.
I just went there.

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We should have a a campaign to
get this book stocked in the

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Reagan presidential library
because I think text in the

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story of Ronald Reagan.
I think this really gives you.

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A.
A.

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A.
Lot of what history didn’t have

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before about this story in this
book.

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That’s, that’s, that’s what we
were going for is to show people

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there was much more to this than
anyone but John could tell.

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And if you see the John Hinckley
book in the Reagan library

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walking out the door, you tell
me you don’t drop 20 bucks on

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that sucker.
I mean, come on, that’s fun.

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Would be interesting product
placement for sure.

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John, you mentioned in the book
that learning that about Reagan,

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that he wanted to come visit
and, you know, forgive you in

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person sort of helped pull you
out of the mental health

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situation you were in or at
least started to kind of get you

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on the road.
Is that correct?

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I wouldn’t say it started me on
the road, but yeah, I, I had

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heard, I think I saw him on TV
saying that he forgave me for

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what I did.
And I was told that he wanted to

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meet me in person.
And I was all, I was all for it.

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But the powers of B were were
against it.

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So it never happened.
I I always wonder now because.

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This is my Beatles getting back
together on SNL that I I just

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see.
If I could see the alternate

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history I would love to.
I, I think about, you know, we,

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we’ve had, you know, 4 decades
since, right?

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You know, plus and, and I, I
think Reagan a lot of sort of

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like the reactions to his
presidency have been a lot more

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negative than people were
expecting at the time.

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Like, do you think that people
are disappointed in hearing

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because you say in the book very
quickly, you’re like, I got

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nothing against the guy.
Actually, I think he’s a really

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nice guy.
Do you think people sort of get

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bombed about the fact that this
wasn’t like actually a a

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personal or political choice?
Well, I, I mean, I get to this

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day, I get comments, you know,
from people who hate, hated

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Reagan and wish that I succeeded
in what I did and why didn’t I

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use a bigger gun, that kind of
thing.

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I get those comments to this day
so.

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Yeah, not surprisingly, those
comments are almost always made

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anonymously.
Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah.
I mean, well, we get put on a

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list if we don’t make them.
I mean, but you do sort of have

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this.
But if I can interject briefly,

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you did have bigger guns that
you got rid of.

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Why did you choose the 22 to
hold onto out of your your

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collection of of guns?
Settle it once and for all?

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Why didn’t you use a bigger gun?
I had about 3 guns and I was

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selling my guns to raise some
money and the guy that was

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buying the guns one of one of
the 30 eights and so I had to

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sell the 30 eights.
OK.

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You kind of have developed
especially I think really since

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you cultivated your Twitter
account as well and you let

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people know you’re out there.
You have your YouTube where you

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put your music on there that you
have this very unique, obviously

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very, very unique, like
accidental folk hero sort of

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personality that that the
Internet has sort of thrust upon

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you.
Do you sort of embrace that

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because of your history, or do
you resent that that still is a

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reason that people really do put
you up on this pedestal?

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I don’t resent it at all.
No, I mean, most of my fans who

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like my music are, are very
young.

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They’re like, in their early
20s.

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And the reason I say that most
of the people who like me and my

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music are so young, I say they
don’t have the prejudices of

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their parents and their
grandparents.

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And if they want to, you know,
make a folk folk hero out of me,

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go ahead.
This is sort of still a music

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question.
In reading the book.

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The original plan, it seems, was
to kill Jimmy Carter, and you

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had a chance to do that but
backed out, it seems like,

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because of your reverence for
the Grand Ole Opry.

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Can you talk about that a little
bit?

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I’m not sure it was that the day
that I was so close to Carter

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when he was campaigning was in
Dayton, OH and I didn’t have a

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gun with me at the time, so
nothing happened.

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But yeah, let me if you want to
talk about the Grand Ole Opry.

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Sure.
I love the Grand Ole Opry and I

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was actually arrest, I was
actually arrested in Nashville

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on October the 9th trying to get
on an airplane with some guns.

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So I I’ve kind of a checkered
history with Nashville.

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Is that the same arrest where
you also had a diary in your bag

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that kind of went through all
your plan that they did not?

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Find I had a diary in the bag
where the guns were and I I was

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telling everything I was doing
in the diary but they

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confiscated my guns but they
didn’t read the diary.

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That’s fascinating.
I noticed you have a lot of like

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kind of first hand quotes from
your own writings in the book.

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Did you have had you held onto
that stuff over the years?

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Was it interesting going through
that stuff after so much time

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had passed?
Stuff you’d written in and out

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of psychosis now that you’re
been on the road to recovery for

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a long time?
I bet that was a trip going

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through that stuff.
Well, actually, I didn’t hold on

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to any of it.
Jason found all that stuff.

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So ask Jason how he found it.
Oh, really?

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OK.
Jason, how did you find all

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that?
Jason, you’re up, baby.

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Just a lot of research.
I mean, I there was, there was a

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lot of research in the piece.
A lot of that came out during

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his trial.
So that was easy to find.

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His writings are very available
all over the net.

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I mean, it wasn’t, wasn’t
anything necessarily extensive.

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I just did a bunch of searches
and found everything.

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I mean, just like, just like the
quotes from from Reagan and

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Reagan’s kids and Trump and
everyone else who was quoted in

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the piece that I didn’t
personally talk to.

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00:12:46,560 –> 00:12:53,040
The Am I right that the phone
calls between John and Jodie

217
00:12:53,040 –> 00:12:55,960
Foster, were there recordings of
those calls?

218
00:12:56,000 –> 00:12:59,560
I recorded them, yes.
What was the purpose for what?

219
00:12:59,560 –> 00:13:02,560
Like what made you want to
record those calls?

220
00:13:03,840 –> 00:13:06,400
I guess just so I could listen
to them over and over.

221
00:13:06,400 –> 00:13:10,880
Later on, I had a little
cassette player and I recorded

222
00:13:10,880 –> 00:13:13,200
the phone calls to my cassette
tape.

223
00:13:13,360 –> 00:13:17,560
And yeah, after, after the,
after we had the phone calls, I

224
00:13:17,560 –> 00:13:19,960
would listen to the phone calls
over and over.

225
00:13:19,960 –> 00:13:23,680
And the the the recordings are
eventually introduced as

226
00:13:23,680 –> 00:13:28,920
evidence in my trial, right?
I, I think in relation to, to

227
00:13:28,920 –> 00:13:31,720
that question and sort of
building on sort of the whole

228
00:13:31,720 –> 00:13:35,440
scope of the book, it, it really
is sort of a, a tale, you’re

229
00:13:35,440 –> 00:13:38,840
honest sort of tale of, of
mental illness and, and your

230
00:13:38,840 –> 00:13:41,760
battle with mental illness and
the stigma that comes through

231
00:13:41,760 –> 00:13:45,600
that and the, the extents that
these things go to.

232
00:13:46,280 –> 00:13:50,440
I, I really, I wonder like,
because it was so intense and it

233
00:13:50,440 –> 00:13:54,440
was such a real experience for
you to experience the psychosis.

234
00:13:54,680 –> 00:14:00,120
Do you, is there this constant
sort of fear that there it might

235
00:14:00,120 –> 00:14:05,000
sort of like reactivates or or
come back or that like are you

236
00:14:05,000 –> 00:14:09,720
really on top of of reality?
Like how do you stay in touch

237
00:14:09,720 –> 00:14:12,520
with that and ensure that
reality is real to you?

238
00:14:13,360 –> 00:14:16,640
I have No Fear that that male
illness will come back to me.

239
00:14:16,640 –> 00:14:23,480
I’m very, you know, stable and
I’m on psychotropic medications

240
00:14:23,480 –> 00:14:26,200
and I have a good, I have a good
support system.

241
00:14:26,200 –> 00:14:30,400
So I have No Fear at all of
going back to where I was in

242
00:14:30,400 –> 00:14:35,240
1981.
For any people that might be in

243
00:14:35,240 –> 00:14:38,320
in, in a much earlier version of
your situation, really very much

244
00:14:38,320 –> 00:14:40,920
are still grappling with
psychosis and mental illness.

245
00:14:41,480 –> 00:14:45,520
Do you have any advice for them
on the recovery process of

246
00:14:45,520 –> 00:14:48,040
getting to a place where you do
feel like you say secure in

247
00:14:48,040 –> 00:14:49,960
your, you know, your, your
mental health?

248
00:14:50,720 –> 00:14:54,000
I always say if if you’re
suffering, reach out to your

249
00:14:54,000 –> 00:14:56,600
family.
The the, the worst thing I did

250
00:14:56,600 –> 00:14:59,720
is I pushed my family away.
My parents, my brother, my

251
00:14:59,720 –> 00:15:02,960
sister, I got estranged from
them and they were trying to

252
00:15:02,960 –> 00:15:05,080
help me.
So I would say to people now who

253
00:15:05,080 –> 00:15:09,240
are suffering, reach out to your
family and and your friends and

254
00:15:09,280 –> 00:15:16,200
don’t push them away.
Speaking of family, and I hope

255
00:15:16,200 –> 00:15:19,560
this question doesn’t come off
the wrong way, it’s more a

256
00:15:19,560 –> 00:15:22,600
commentary on the American
justice system.

257
00:15:22,600 –> 00:15:27,960
Do you think if your family did
not have the financial resources

258
00:15:27,960 –> 00:15:30,760
that it seems like they have, do
you think you would have had the

259
00:15:30,760 –> 00:15:34,520
same outcome in court?
That’s a good question because

260
00:15:34,520 –> 00:15:38,080
I, I, I had the very best lawyer
in the country, I thought, and

261
00:15:38,080 –> 00:15:42,920
Barry Levine and, you know, he
was a very well paid lawyer.

262
00:15:43,360 –> 00:15:48,040
And if I if, if, if throughout
all those years I had just been

263
00:15:48,040 –> 00:15:52,000
using public defenders, I’m not,
I’m not sure I would I would

264
00:15:52,000 –> 00:15:53,640
ever have gotten my freedom.
Yeah.

265
00:15:54,200 –> 00:15:59,200
Yeah, that’s or, or even maybe
the, the, the hospital status

266
00:15:59,200 –> 00:16:01,920
that you you did get there, the
treatment that you needed.

267
00:16:03,080 –> 00:16:07,240
You know, I think in a way, you
know, the luck of being born

268
00:16:07,240 –> 00:16:13,760
into wealth of that level sort
of did detect and help diagnose

269
00:16:13,760 –> 00:16:15,680
the problem.
You know, you you might have

270
00:16:15,680 –> 00:16:19,360
just ended up a a problem on the
streets forever if if that never

271
00:16:19,360 –> 00:16:22,880
happened so or in jail forever.
Yeah, it’s, yeah.

272
00:16:22,880 –> 00:16:25,480
I mean, I certainly don’t mean
it as a bad thing, you know,

273
00:16:25,600 –> 00:16:27,600
it’s.
When your your case did really

274
00:16:27,680 –> 00:16:30,920
help establish in the public
mind the insanity defense is

275
00:16:30,920 –> 00:16:34,880
legitimate defense.
You also go in in the book,

276
00:16:34,880 –> 00:16:39,520
though you also talk about how
the insanity defense kind of

277
00:16:39,520 –> 00:16:44,280
changed after your case.
Can you expand on that a little

278
00:16:44,280 –> 00:16:46,480
bit?
Well, I mean, the whole country

279
00:16:46,480 –> 00:16:49,160
thought I was going to be found
guilty of what I did because

280
00:16:49,160 –> 00:16:51,920
it’s very obvious on, on tape
what I did.

281
00:16:52,120 –> 00:16:54,240
I was guilty of what, of
shooting the president.

282
00:16:54,240 –> 00:16:57,280
But so when I, when I was found
not guilty by reason of

283
00:16:57,280 –> 00:16:59,560
insanity, the, the country
erupted.

284
00:16:59,600 –> 00:17:04,680
This is 1982 and there was a lot
of backlash and outrage and

285
00:17:05,119 –> 00:17:08,680
they, Congress met and laws were
changed.

286
00:17:08,680 –> 00:17:12,560
And now it’s much more difficult
to be found not guilty by reason

287
00:17:12,560 –> 00:17:14,720
of insanity because of because
of my case.

288
00:17:15,400 –> 00:17:21,000
Well, thanks a lot, John.
I, I, I think about to like

289
00:17:21,079 –> 00:17:24,599
there were there a lot happened.
I’ll be a lot has happened in

290
00:17:24,599 –> 00:17:27,160
four decades, right.
Obviously a lot of things

291
00:17:27,160 –> 00:17:30,800
happened when you are under sort
of the care that you are under.

292
00:17:30,800 –> 00:17:33,800
And I know that you would get
these sort of like hourly, sort

293
00:17:33,800 –> 00:17:36,280
of like daylight furloughs and
things like these where you

294
00:17:36,280 –> 00:17:38,840
could go out sort of into the
real world and experience those.

295
00:17:38,840 –> 00:17:40,800
But was there things that
happened?

296
00:17:40,800 –> 00:17:43,280
And the thing that I think
really, I think about, it’s like

297
00:17:43,440 –> 00:17:47,400
911, for example, when that
happened, were you shielded from

298
00:17:47,400 –> 00:17:49,440
that information?
Was that considered something

299
00:17:49,440 –> 00:17:51,640
that they wouldn’t want you to
know about?

300
00:17:52,080 –> 00:17:54,600
During this process or?
Were you getting all of the

301
00:17:54,600 –> 00:17:56,720
world’s information while it was
happening as well?

302
00:17:57,040 –> 00:18:01,960
I was always on a ward in the
hospital where the TV’s were on

303
00:18:01,960 –> 00:18:06,040
24/7.
So I, I, I was, I kept up on the

304
00:18:06,040 –> 00:18:08,760
news all through my
hospitalization.

305
00:18:09,080 –> 00:18:10,400
I knew exactly what was going
on.

306
00:18:10,400 –> 00:18:13,000
Interesting.
Did you ever catch yourself on

307
00:18:13,000 –> 00:18:15,200
the news?
Oh, many, many, many times.

308
00:18:15,960 –> 00:18:17,480
That’s got it.
That’s got to be kind of a trip

309
00:18:17,480 –> 00:18:19,440
when you’ve already already
going through psychosis and

310
00:18:19,440 –> 00:18:21,160
they’re actually talking about
you on TV.

311
00:18:21,480 –> 00:18:25,440
Well, what’s the trip is when
you’re in a mental hospital and

312
00:18:25,440 –> 00:18:28,440
you’re and you’re watching TV
with a bunch of other patients.

313
00:18:29,280 –> 00:18:32,800
And here I here I, here I come
on the TV and the other patients

314
00:18:32,800 –> 00:18:34,360
are sitting there right beside
me.

315
00:18:34,440 –> 00:18:36,760
They can’t believe it’s actually
me that’s on the TV.

316
00:18:38,280 –> 00:18:39,720
Yeah.
I mean, that’s that’s got to be

317
00:18:39,720 –> 00:18:42,840
such a trip, especially in the
situation that you were in,

318
00:18:43,480 –> 00:18:46,200
which I find it’s interesting.
One of the things that I think

319
00:18:46,200 –> 00:18:48,240
people got.
Out of your way, but when you

320
00:18:48,240 –> 00:18:50,560
like were in line because of
your status, right?

321
00:18:52,640 –> 00:18:54,480
Somewhat.
I mean, I especially when I

322
00:18:54,480 –> 00:18:57,800
first got to Saint Elizabeth,
everybody was kind of in awe of

323
00:18:57,800 –> 00:19:00,440
me because I was like the
biggest thing in the country at

324
00:19:00,440 –> 00:19:02,120
the time.
And they just were kind of in

325
00:19:02,120 –> 00:19:03,680
awe of that.
I was actually standing there

326
00:19:03,680 –> 00:19:05,400
right in front of.
Them at the height of Hinckley

327
00:19:05,400 –> 00:19:08,880
mania.
Yeah, Jason, a question for you

328
00:19:08,880 –> 00:19:12,640
in regards to sort of putting
the book together and and doing

329
00:19:12,640 –> 00:19:15,960
a lot of that work.
Did you, did you, I mean, did

330
00:19:15,960 –> 00:19:19,040
you reach out to like, like when
you look at all the people that,

331
00:19:19,040 –> 00:19:21,480
whose names are dropped and you
look at you like, you know, De

332
00:19:21,480 –> 00:19:25,440
Niro and, and obviously, you
know, Jodie Foster and stuff

333
00:19:25,440 –> 00:19:27,360
like that?
Like did, did you reach out to

334
00:19:27,360 –> 00:19:31,960
like every, every part, every
cog in this entire machine to

335
00:19:31,960 –> 00:19:33,680
see if they had commentary or
not?

336
00:19:33,680 –> 00:19:36,120
Or or were you just like this is
more of an autobiography and

337
00:19:36,120 –> 00:19:38,200
we’re not going to dip too
heavily into that.

338
00:19:38,320 –> 00:19:41,640
Yeah, I think it was more of the
second thing about not.

339
00:19:41,720 –> 00:19:45,600
I mean, obviously the majority
of the people are not around

340
00:19:45,600 –> 00:19:48,560
anymore.
Obviously, John, if John’s

341
00:19:48,560 –> 00:19:51,080
lawyers were still here, I would
have tried to talk to them.

342
00:19:51,080 –> 00:19:53,320
If his parents were still here,
I would have tried to talk to

343
00:19:53,320 –> 00:19:57,640
them.
Obviously, you know, De Niro

344
00:19:57,640 –> 00:20:02,240
only talked about it for due to
to the extent that taxi driver

345
00:20:02,240 –> 00:20:06,240
was in the news.
Now, at the very end of the

346
00:20:06,240 –> 00:20:08,920
book, it says that Jodie Foster
refused to comment.

347
00:20:08,920 –> 00:20:10,520
Of course I had to reach out to
her.

348
00:20:10,600 –> 00:20:12,920
Now.
Was I shocked that she didn’t

349
00:20:12,960 –> 00:20:14,280
respond?
Not really.

350
00:20:16,040 –> 00:20:18,440
But, but I had to reach out to
her.

351
00:20:18,440 –> 00:20:21,840
But yeah, I think she was.
Well, no, no, no, I did reach

352
00:20:21,840 –> 00:20:23,680
out to her.
And I think the only other

353
00:20:23,680 –> 00:20:27,200
person that I personally
interviewed was a guy who played

354
00:20:27,200 –> 00:20:30,200
John in a movie.
There’s a profile of Oh, yeah.

355
00:20:30,240 –> 00:20:32,560
Oh yeah.
That the guy from the Reagan

356
00:20:32,560 –> 00:20:35,480
movie, right?
Yes, I actually reached out to

357
00:20:35,840 –> 00:20:39,920
John’s been portrayed by a
couple of people in movies and I

358
00:20:39,920 –> 00:20:42,000
reached out to a few of them.
I think he was the only one that

359
00:20:42,000 –> 00:20:43,760
responded.
Interesting.

360
00:20:44,680 –> 00:20:48,240
Back to John, back to you and
your music because because music

361
00:20:48,240 –> 00:20:51,760
seems to be a a very important
touchstone in your life and you

362
00:20:51,760 –> 00:20:54,920
talk about it a lot.
And I’ve seen in other

363
00:20:54,920 –> 00:20:58,200
interviews that like you’ll book
these venues, you’ll sell out

364
00:20:58,280 –> 00:21:00,440
the tickets and then the venues
will bail.

365
00:21:00,520 –> 00:21:03,320
Does that sound about right?
That’s exactly right.

366
00:21:03,360 –> 00:21:06,680
I’ve had, I’ve had many venues
cancel on me at the last minute.

367
00:21:06,760 –> 00:21:10,200
I mean, I’ve had venues where
we’ve sold, we’ve sold out the

368
00:21:10,200 –> 00:21:14,120
venue and at the last minute the
owner of the venue pulls the

369
00:21:14,120 –> 00:21:18,360
plug and show gets cancelled.
It’s happened over and over.

370
00:21:18,400 –> 00:21:22,080
Do you do you think that’s, do
you think, because I know they

371
00:21:22,120 –> 00:21:25,480
they cite security risks.
Do you think, and I’ve seen you

372
00:21:25,480 –> 00:21:27,600
on interviews and you’re
resenting it like, you know,

373
00:21:27,600 –> 00:21:30,560
security, we could get security.
Do you think it is actual

374
00:21:30,560 –> 00:21:34,120
security or do you think they
are lying about Internet

375
00:21:34,280 –> 00:21:37,800
pushback That like they think
that the vibes might be off and

376
00:21:37,800 –> 00:21:41,200
they’re not comfortable with it.
Like they resent the booking.

377
00:21:41,360 –> 00:21:44,600
I, I just think they don’t want
their venue to be getting

378
00:21:44,920 –> 00:21:47,960
threatening phone, threatening
phone calls and stuff like that

379
00:21:47,960 –> 00:21:51,720
because I’m performing there.
They just want to keep, keep a

380
00:21:51,720 –> 00:21:55,000
good thing going with their
venue and not get into the

381
00:21:55,000 –> 00:21:58,640
controversy that would probably
happen with me playing their

382
00:21:58,640 –> 00:22:00,920
venue.
But we, we, I mean, if it’s if

383
00:22:00,920 –> 00:22:04,240
it’s a matter of security, you
can always hire a ton of

384
00:22:04,240 –> 00:22:06,800
security if that’s if that’s the
only reason they don’t want to

385
00:22:06,800 –> 00:22:09,000
hire me.
Yeah, I’d be shocked if anyone

386
00:22:09,040 –> 00:22:11,920
still loves Reagan that much,
I’d say.

387
00:22:11,960 –> 00:22:15,200
Punk venues must must be
clamoring for you to have on.

388
00:22:15,320 –> 00:22:19,000
Yeah, I’ve tried a few punk
venues and the E they backed out

389
00:22:19,000 –> 00:22:19,800
too.
Wow.

390
00:22:20,120 –> 00:22:22,760
Have you had any?
The way I read it in the book, I

391
00:22:22,760 –> 00:22:25,680
wasn’t sure if this was true.
Have you had any gigs go off or

392
00:22:25,680 –> 00:22:28,280
have they all been torpedoed one
one way or another?

393
00:22:28,600 –> 00:22:30,480
01 way or another.
Wow.

394
00:22:30,960 –> 00:22:33,640
That sucks.
I’m trying to, I’m trying to

395
00:22:33,640 –> 00:22:36,400
like now I’m like, now I’m just
trying to like book for you.

396
00:22:36,400 –> 00:22:39,760
Now I’m like, could we do some
like yard ghost?

397
00:22:39,760 –> 00:22:44,720
Light in Detroit, in Hamtramck,
let John Hinckley spit.

398
00:22:45,960 –> 00:22:48,840
Yeah, honestly, yeah.
I think because here’s the

399
00:22:48,840 –> 00:22:50,920
thing, too, right?
And you see about this all the

400
00:22:50,920 –> 00:22:54,280
time with, you know, Michael
Vick, for example.

401
00:22:54,280 –> 00:22:56,760
Michael Vick goes to prison, he
gets out, he gets to play

402
00:22:56,760 –> 00:22:58,120
football again.
He paid his price.

403
00:22:58,120 –> 00:23:00,880
He paid.
He paid whatever you are a

404
00:23:00,880 –> 00:23:03,400
victim of your own mental
illness and other people are

405
00:23:03,400 –> 00:23:05,560
also victims of your mental
illness, right?

406
00:23:05,560 –> 00:23:09,240
That’s not debated.
The fact that there are people

407
00:23:09,240 –> 00:23:15,680
that still will not allow you to
now continue moving forward like

408
00:23:15,680 –> 00:23:18,400
that, that’s, that seems
patently unfair, right?

409
00:23:18,400 –> 00:23:21,400
Extremely, yeah.
I could put on a good show if

410
00:23:21,440 –> 00:23:26,000
they just let me.
Do you because these venues keep

411
00:23:26,120 –> 00:23:30,280
sort of canceling you out and
and not allowing you to do that?

412
00:23:30,280 –> 00:23:34,040
Like, do you feel like your
performance in front of a crowd

413
00:23:34,040 –> 00:23:35,880
would?
Are you ready for that?

414
00:23:35,960 –> 00:23:39,560
Yes, I am.
I mean, I, I had sold out the

415
00:23:39,560 –> 00:23:43,800
Market Hotel in Brooklyn, NY.
I sold that out in three days

416
00:23:44,120 –> 00:23:46,840
and I was getting ready every
day for that concert because it

417
00:23:46,840 –> 00:23:49,800
was going to be a really big
deal in Brooklyn, NY.

418
00:23:49,880 –> 00:23:53,080
So I was totally ready for it.
But it’s very last moment.

419
00:23:53,080 –> 00:23:57,360
The Market Hotel pulled out of
it and issued this long

420
00:23:57,360 –> 00:23:59,240
statement as to why they did
that.

421
00:24:01,400 –> 00:24:04,760
The back to the book for a
second.

422
00:24:04,960 –> 00:24:10,960
One of the there’s a lot of
fascinating details and

423
00:24:11,480 –> 00:24:14,920
information in the book.
One of the things that I found

424
00:24:14,920 –> 00:24:20,560
absolutely stunning is back when
this happened, back when the

425
00:24:20,560 –> 00:24:23,480
Reagan shooting happened.
Did I read correctly?

426
00:24:23,480 –> 00:24:27,840
There was a phone number the
public could just call to find

427
00:24:27,840 –> 00:24:30,400
out what the president’s
movements were going to be.

428
00:24:30,520 –> 00:24:33,920
Not just phone number, but it
was published in the newspapers

429
00:24:34,120 –> 00:24:36,720
on a regular basis back then.
That’s insane.

430
00:24:36,880 –> 00:24:40,000
Well, I.
Mean you consider that Gerald

431
00:24:40,000 –> 00:24:43,600
Ford had two people shooted him
in what, a couple of weeks?

432
00:24:43,960 –> 00:24:45,680
I was.
I was surprised to hear that

433
00:24:45,680 –> 00:24:47,120
that’s how.
Little people care about Gerald

434
00:24:47,120 –> 00:24:51,720
Ford I.
Did did did you guys have any

435
00:24:51,720 –> 00:24:54,080
other questions for me?
I I got to get back to work

436
00:24:54,080 –> 00:24:56,960
here.
Jason, great job.

437
00:24:56,960 –> 00:24:59,080
What books can we look forward
to coming from you in the

438
00:24:59,080 –> 00:25:00,040
future?
How about that?

439
00:25:00,840 –> 00:25:04,640
Well, I’ve got I’m a big fan of
pro wrestling, so I’m trying to

440
00:25:04,640 –> 00:25:06,600
write at least two more books
there.

441
00:25:06,600 –> 00:25:08,600
If you look at my website, I’ve
actually already written a

442
00:25:08,600 –> 00:25:11,440
couple of books with that.
And ironically enough, I’m

443
00:25:11,760 –> 00:25:14,200
almost finished with a piece on
the history of the Carmen San

444
00:25:14,200 –> 00:25:18,440
Diego Saga, so hopefully we’ll
like that as well.

445
00:25:18,560 –> 00:25:22,680
Both where and and when Carmen.
She’s all well.

446
00:25:23,000 –> 00:25:26,200
That’s that is very interesting.
Do you do you guys?

447
00:25:26,680 –> 00:25:28,800
And last question for you too,
both because you are you’re

448
00:25:28,800 –> 00:25:30,840
working on the wrestling team.
Did you guys like have other

449
00:25:30,840 –> 00:25:33,520
things that you vibed on
throughout the process of this,

450
00:25:33,520 –> 00:25:35,960
things that you guys have in
common that you discovered

451
00:25:35,960 –> 00:25:37,520
throughout the process of
writing this book?

452
00:25:38,040 –> 00:25:39,640
No, not really.
It was more of a business deal.

453
00:25:39,880 –> 00:25:41,520
All right.
Hell yeah, man.

454
00:25:42,760 –> 00:25:44,120
Thank you.
Thank you, Jason.

455
00:25:44,200 –> 00:25:46,320
I appreciate it.
Are we finishing up now?

456
00:25:47,120 –> 00:25:49,720
We can, we can ask, we can do a
little bit more with you, John

457
00:25:49,720 –> 00:25:52,520
specifically if you’d like.
How do you feel just?

458
00:25:52,760 –> 00:25:54,640
A little bit.
Sure, no problem.

459
00:25:54,760 –> 00:25:58,280
I had a question.
There’s a detail that always

460
00:25:58,440 –> 00:26:05,120
comes up in that your brother
had plans to have dinner with

461
00:26:05,120 –> 00:26:10,200
George Bush’s son Neil right
around the time the Reagan

462
00:26:10,200 –> 00:26:11,720
shooting happened.
How?

463
00:26:11,960 –> 00:26:15,520
What was the relationship
between your family and the Bush

464
00:26:15,760 –> 00:26:19,520
family?
Or was it just your brother knew

465
00:26:19,720 –> 00:26:22,840
Neil Bush?
Or was there a larger

466
00:26:22,840 –> 00:26:25,640
relationship there?
See, I did not know that my

467
00:26:25,640 –> 00:26:28,760
brother was going to be having
dinner with Neil Bush.

468
00:26:28,760 –> 00:26:32,400
I did not know that at all
because I was kind of, you know,

469
00:26:32,400 –> 00:26:34,040
strange from my brother at the
time.

470
00:26:34,040 –> 00:26:39,920
But my brother knew Neil because
they were both in the oil

471
00:26:39,920 –> 00:26:41,760
business.
I think that’s the way they met.

472
00:26:41,800 –> 00:26:44,280
They were both young and
upcoming oil men.

473
00:26:44,960 –> 00:26:50,120
But I mean, I keep seeing things
about how my family was close to

474
00:26:50,120 –> 00:26:51,720
the Bush family and all this
stuff.

475
00:26:52,040 –> 00:26:53,880
I don’t think so.
I just think it was the

476
00:26:53,920 –> 00:26:55,920
friendship that my brother had
was Neil.

477
00:26:56,040 –> 00:27:00,000
Bush Interesting.
Johnny, I know you, you

478
00:27:00,000 –> 00:27:02,000
mentioned in the book sort of
right towards the end in that

479
00:27:02,000 –> 00:27:06,240
conclusion that you’re, you’re,
you know, that you’re, you’re in

480
00:27:06,240 –> 00:27:08,440
your early 70s.
You’re like, I know that, you

481
00:27:08,440 –> 00:27:10,520
know, the years are, are limited
now.

482
00:27:11,160 –> 00:27:16,400
What would be the best sort of
ending for you for the next, you

483
00:27:16,400 –> 00:27:19,440
know, 20 years or so?
Like, like how, what would the

484
00:27:19,440 –> 00:27:22,600
what would life be like for you?
That would be like the perfect

485
00:27:22,680 –> 00:27:25,840
John Hinckley finish?
They keep putting out my music.

486
00:27:26,120 –> 00:27:30,720
By the way, all my songs are on
all the music streaming sites.

487
00:27:30,720 –> 00:27:34,760
If anybody wants to listen to my
music then go to Spotify or

488
00:27:34,800 –> 00:27:37,600
Apple or iTunes or any of the
any of the sites.

489
00:27:37,760 –> 00:27:40,240
And YouTube as well, right?
And YouTube, I have a YouTube

490
00:27:40,240 –> 00:27:42,320
channel and they can hear my
music.

491
00:27:42,320 –> 00:27:46,960
So I’d say I just hope people go
continue to enjoy my music.

492
00:27:46,960 –> 00:27:50,640
It’ll it, it would grow in
popularity and then I can start

493
00:27:50,640 –> 00:27:52,560
doing some gigs around the
country.

494
00:27:53,440 –> 00:27:55,160
Yeah, I hope that happens for
you.

495
00:27:55,280 –> 00:27:57,880
I do.
Especially the the gigs thing.

496
00:27:58,000 –> 00:28:02,160
I hope that turns around and
able to book.

497
00:28:02,560 –> 00:28:05,360
I’m just thinking now I’ve I’ve
literally, I’ve been like, where

498
00:28:05,360 –> 00:28:06,680
could we, where could we get a
show?

499
00:28:07,160 –> 00:28:09,640
Like.
All I’m thinking about now is I

500
00:28:09,640 –> 00:28:11,560
was literally thinking, what?
What about the sardine?

501
00:28:11,560 –> 00:28:14,760
Can we get him at the Sardine?
I’m gonna ask John.

502
00:28:15,160 –> 00:28:18,320
You know, we look, we want you.
We want your success.

503
00:28:18,440 –> 00:28:21,560
That’s what we want.
We want you to have gone through

504
00:28:21,560 –> 00:28:26,520
hell and come out and succeed.
So what can people do, aside

505
00:28:26,520 –> 00:28:28,160
from listening to your music to
help that?

506
00:28:28,320 –> 00:28:33,680
Well, if anybody can get a get a
venue that’ll that’ll not freak

507
00:28:33,680 –> 00:28:38,320
out and book me and go go
through with the show, that

508
00:28:38,320 –> 00:28:41,040
would really help me to.
Well, John, good news.

509
00:28:41,040 –> 00:28:43,520
I think some of my friends in
Saudi Arabia are going to be

510
00:28:43,520 –> 00:28:45,720
able to help you out.
I.

511
00:28:46,360 –> 00:28:48,960
I would go there and do it good.
I would.

512
00:28:49,160 –> 00:28:52,920
I wouldn’t judge you if you did
if you’ve been cock blocked this

513
00:28:52,920 –> 00:28:55,680
many times, goddamn it.
Yeah, I don’t think you’re going

514
00:28:55,680 –> 00:28:58,520
to get cancelled for playing
Riyadh the way some people were.

515
00:28:58,520 –> 00:29:00,600
I think you, I think you’re
pretty cancel proof at this

516
00:29:00,600 –> 00:29:01,360
point in time.
Well.

517
00:29:01,920 –> 00:29:05,440
John, thank you so much.
We won’t take up any more of

518
00:29:05,440 –> 00:29:07,880
your time.
Thank you so much for doing this

519
00:29:07,880 –> 00:29:09,760
interview.
I really appreciate it.

520
00:29:09,760 –> 00:29:13,560
We’ll link to your music and
where people can get the book in

521
00:29:13,560 –> 00:29:15,960
the show notes.
OK, guys.

522
00:29:16,040 –> 00:29:17,120
Thanks a lot.
Thank you.

523
00:29:17,120 –> 00:29:18,800
Thank.
You so much John, have a great

524
00:29:18,800 –> 00:29:19,600
day.
You too.

525
00:29:19,600 –> 00:29:20,440
Bye.
All right, Bye.

526
00:29:26,320 –> 00:29:30,400
And that was our interview with
John Hinckley Junior and Jason

527
00:29:30,400 –> 00:29:34,880
Norman, authors of the book John
Hinckley Junior, Who I Really

528
00:29:34,880 –> 00:29:36,880
am.
Again, check the link in the

529
00:29:36,880 –> 00:29:40,440
show description if you want to
buy yourself a copy and read it

530
00:29:40,440 –> 00:29:43,080
for yourself.
You’ll also find links to John’s

531
00:29:43,080 –> 00:29:45,880
music there.
The pod will be back next week.

532
00:29:46,240 –> 00:29:49,680
And hey, who knows, at the rate
we’re going, maybe we’ll

533
00:29:49,680 –> 00:29:52,360
interview the CIA or something
next.

534
00:29:52,400 –> 00:29:56,080
But that’s all for now.
Goodbye everybody, we love you.